The Fossil Record- As God Would Have Made It Through Time

marineimaging · Jun 16, 2018

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Psalm 137:7-9
7 Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.
8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

People don't need science to hate other people, and people don't need religion to love other people. People didn't need science back in the Middle Ages to go around hating each other and they don't need it now.

Thanks for the reminder. I violated my own rules. People who come here believing that science trumps God will not be changed. People who come here believing in God without fail will not be changed. Those who believe in between try to accommodate both. You cannot have two Gods so there is no sense in discussing anything further. It will always end the same way.

marineimaging · Jun 16, 2018

doubtingmerle said:
That may be simple, but sorry, it simply is not true. The scientific literature maintains a high level of decorum and respect for other people. It is fine to criticize ideas. We do it all the time. But berating and hating and badmouthing others? That is scorned by science. Oh, there may be some bad characters in the mix, but it is certainly not encouraged by science.

What would you say if someone posted, "If we believe in Jesus we can berate and hate and bad mouth people all we want and nobody says anything"? Would you find it in bad taste to characterize a group of people like that? Then why do you characterize people like that?

Doesn't change my experiences and what I would say is that if we believe in Jesus we are expected to be kind and not return hate for hate. So I stand corrected. Thank you.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jun 16, 2018

marineimaging said:
Thanks for the reminder. I violated my own rules. People who come here believing that science trumps God will not be changed. People who come here believing in God without fail will not be changed. Those who believe in between try to accommodate both. You cannot have two Gods so there is no sense in discussing anything further. It will always end the same way.

You live in a world very different to mine if you think that people worship science as a god.

doubtingmerle · Jun 16, 2018

marineimaging said:
if we believe in Jesus we are expected to be kind and not return hate for hate.

Same goes for those who believe in the value of science.

Cheers!

doubtingmerle · Jun 16, 2018

marineimaging said:
Those who believe in between try to accommodate both. You cannot have two Gods so there is no sense in discussing anything further. It will always end the same way.

There are many good Christians here who also have a strong trust in science, including evolution. I never heard any of them say that means they have two gods.

marineimaging · Jun 16, 2018

doubtingmerle said:
There are many good Christians here who also have a strong trust in science, including evolution. I never heard any of them say that means they have two gods.

If you can only visualize God in the literal sense it would not make sense. But the bible identifies money or possessions as being gods to some people. In other words something to worship other than God. So, if you see a fabricated or a physical item of worship (i.e., money, or anything that is considered more important than God) then you are making that item a God to worship.

Now consider the science of evolution over millions of years as being how we got here vs. believing in a 6 day (24 hour period) of creation as God created us in the same breath. In the same paragraph you are saying that we evolved from an accident in time and space and matter as just the right substance was jolted by a spark of energy to start a cycle of life that did not die as is the nature of all life, but continued to reproduce in an absolutely horrible atmosphere that had to wait millions of years for water to form. That is saying you believe in the God of Creation and the god that is evolution, both at the same time. But our God, our creator is a jealous God. You can't have both.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jun 16, 2018

marineimaging said:
If you can only visualize God in the literal sense it would not make sense. But the bible identifies money or possessions as being gods to some people. In other words something to worship other than God. So, if you see a fabricated or a physical item of worship (i.e., money, or anything that is considered more important than God) then you are making that item a God to worship.

Now consider the science of evolution over millions of years as being how we got here vs. believing in a 6 day (24 hour period) of creation as God created us in the same breath. In the same paragraph you are saying that we evolved from an accident in time and space and matter as just the right substance was jolted by a spark of energy to start a cycle of life that did not die as is the nature of all life, but continued to reproduce in an absolutely horrible atmosphere that had to wait millions of years for water to form. That is saying you believe in the God of Creation and the god that is evolution, both at the same time. But our God, our creator is a jealous God. You can't have both.

You can have both though. There are Christian who believe that God started the process of the Big Bang and just let the universe, and consequently all life, just take its course by his direction.

marineimaging · Jun 16, 2018

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
You can have both though. There are Christian who believe that God started the process of the Big Bang and just let the universe, and consequently all life, just take its course by his direction.

You keep saying "There are Christians who think..." O.K., there are also those who believe in Old Earth, Young Creation. In other words, everything was exactly as scientists say in evolution with one exception. Evolution and accident DID make this planet into the water/green earth we know with the evolved dinosaurs and all over millions of years. And a cataclysmic event DID occurr to kill off the dinosaurs long enough ago to have set the fossils in stone and the oil and diamonds and such. However, about 8,000 years ago and within 6 days God tweaked it for us, made the animals we know today for a balance. Made us. All in 6 days and on the 7th He rested and called it Holy.

But the fact is it does not matter what we think. What we have as the basis for our belief is the Bible, written by 40 authors, the breathed works of our God, and it says that He created all we know in 6 days. I mean, if the above is true then the creation can be just as true because any deity that can create life and adjust a world to fit us can also create more and more and more..., all in 6 days. If God created us out of nothing then why did he need an existing earth and planets and a solar system and a galaxy and millions of galaxy's? If He can create one grain of sand out of nothing he can create all of the universes out of nothing.

So here is my evolution thought. If all of the evolutionary story is true, that we are billions of years in the making, what can you do about it to make it better or worse? To start or stop it? What does the evolutionary story do to tell you to help and love and care for others who are alive and living on this earth today? Those living in cars, kids living on garbage dumps and sleeping in alleyways? God tells us to love and help them. Evolution equips us to do what? God equips us to help others and to love and care for others. God says we are do onto others as we want done to us. Evolution says do onto others before they do onto you? How does evolution quiet those fears at night? God does and without drugs and alcohol. How does evolution justify love? God is the creator of love. How does evolution make you a better person? God can if you follow Him. Evolution tells me it is o.k. to be rid of the weak in this world. Only the strong survive. God says the meek shall inherit the earth. Evolution says there is no wrong. God says there is and He is the author of right. Glory be to God, to Jesus Christ, to the Holy Spirit. Let me be a better man according to God and try harder each day.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jun 16, 2018

marineimaging said:
You keep saying "There are Christians who think..." O.K., there are also those who believe in Old Earth, Young Creation. In other words, everything was exactly as scientists say in evolution with one exception. Evolution and accident DID make this planet into the water/green earth we know with the evolved dinosaurs and all over millions of years. And a cataclysmic event DID occurr to kill off the dinosaurs long enough ago to have set the fossils in stone and the oil and diamonds and such. However, about 8,000 years ago and within 6 days God tweaked it for us, made the animals we know today for a balance. Made us. All in 6 days and on the 7th He rested and called it Holy.

But the fact is it does not matter what we think. What we have as the basis for our belief is the Bible, written by 40 authors, the breathed works of our God, and it says that He created all we know in 6 days. I mean, if the above is true then the creation can be just as true because any deity that can create life and adjust a world to fit us can also create more and more and more..., all in 6 days. If God created us out of nothing then why did he need an existing earth and planets and a solar system and a galaxy and millions of galaxy's? If He can create one grain of sand out of nothing he can create all of the universes out of nothing.

So here is my evolution thought. If all of the evolutionary story is true, that we are billions of years in the making, what can you do about it to make it better or worse? To start or stop it? What does the evolutionary story do to tell you to help and love and care for others who are alive and living on this earth today? Those living in cars, kids living on garbage dumps and sleeping in alleyways? God tells us to love and help them. Evolution equips us to do what? God equips us to help others and to love and care for others. God says we are do onto others as we want done to us. Evolution says do onto others before they do onto you? How does evolution quiet those fears at night? God does and without drugs and alcohol. How does evolution justify love? God is the creator of love. How does evolution make you a better person? God can if you follow Him. Evolution tells me it is o.k. to be rid of the weak in this world. Only the strong survive. God says the meek shall inherit the earth. Evolution says there is no wrong. God says there is and He is the author of right. Glory be to God, to Jesus Christ, to the Holy Spirit. Let me be a better man according to God and try harder each day.

... you really don't know what you're railing against, do you?

marineimaging · Jun 16, 2018

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
... you really don't know what you're railing against, do you?

Sure I do. I just don't know why I am bothering to do it with you.

Brightmoon · Jun 16, 2018

marineimaging said:
Do you think there are any circumstances where the Bible can be true and factual as written? If there was a set of conditions which, if true, would allow you to hold it up and say this is the Word of God as it is written and we know that because..., _____________________. What would you fill in the blank with?

I don’t believe in biblical inerrancy as I’m very aware of how much the Bible has been changed and manipulated over the centuries. I’ve known this since I was 10 years old ( that’s not a typo) My bottom line has always been if the behavior in the Bible is toxic it probably isn’t coming from God . My church is like that too,

doubtingmerle · Jun 16, 2018

marineimaging said:
What does the evolutionary story do to tell you to help and love and care for others who are alive and living on this earth today? Those living in cars, kids living on garbage dumps and sleeping in alleyways? God tells us to love and help them.

Science has learned that we are social creatures, that we intrinsically depend on cooperation with others. Social creatures thrive only where there is love and mutual trust. So evolution teaches that moral behavior is at the core of who we are.

Christianity teaches us that we are inherently evil, and we better start loving each other because God says so. It is my experience that loving because the man upstairs commands it is not as good as loving because we are creatures that understand that we are naturally best when we love. Understanding our human condition and social need can help us navigate the often rocky path of seeking a loving, trusting relationship with those who are not very cooperative.

By contrast, loving the cantankerous because we are commanded, without understanding the evolutionary basis of such love, can lead to inner turmoil and passive aggressive behavior toward the ones we are forced to "love"'

marineimaging · Jun 16, 2018

Brightmoon said:
I don’t believe in biblical inerrancy as I’m very aware of how much the Bible has been changed and manipulated over the centuries. I’ve known this since I was 10 years old ( that’s not a typo) My bottom line has always been if the behavior in the Bible is toxic it probably isn’t coming from God . My church is like that too,

So many people want to say that the Bible was corrupted by men for the sake of men. When I speak of the Bible I am referring to the KJV becasue my studies have indicated that it is poetically and spiritually in tune with all of the original writings. I know that there are scholars who will counter that with this "fact" or that " book by so and so" and claim that it is full of errors, but at the same time the pureness of God's love for us shines through more brightly in the KJV for me than any other. I really posed the question to a non-believer. Someone who experienced something that would make it as real for them as it is for those of us who believe.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jun 17, 2018

marineimaging said:
Sure I do. I just don't know why I am bothering to do it with you.

No, I don't think you do. If you did, you wouldn't make even half the claims you've made about evolution.

doubtingmerle · Jun 17, 2018

marineimaging said:
People who come here believing that science trumps God will not be changed. People who come here believing in God without fail will not be changed.

Instantaneously, no, that would be a big change in world view.

Over time, yes, change happens.

Brightmoon · Jun 17, 2018

marineimaging said:
So many people want to say that the Bible was corrupted by men for the sake of men. When I speak of the Bible I am referring to the KJV becasue my studies have indicated that it is poetically and spiritually in tune with all of the original writings. I know that there are scholars who will counter that with this "fact" or that " book by so and so" and claim that it is full of errors, but at the same time the pureness of God's love for us shines through more brightly in the KJV for me than any other. I really posed the question to a non-believer. Someone who experienced something that would make it as real for them as it is for those of us who believe.

I’ve also been aware for decades that the KJV is considered to be a poor translation of the original texts by bible scholars . It’s also considered to be beautiful and poetic by those same scholars

Speedwell · Jun 17, 2018

marineimaging said:
If you can only visualize God in the literal sense it would not make sense. But the bible identifies money or possessions as being gods to some people. In other words something to worship other than God. So, if you see a fabricated or a physical item of worship (i.e., money, or anything that is considered more important than God) then you are making that item a God to worship.

Well, that's good to know, because no theist believes that any scientific theory is more important than God.

Now consider the science of evolution over millions of years as being how we got here vs. believing in a 6 day (24 hour period) of creation as God created us in the same breath.

Now you are talking about the Bible, not God. I can talk about evolution and God in the same breath with no problem, because I believe that evolution is God's creation just like everything else in the universe.

In the same paragraph you are saying that we evolved from an accident in time and space and matter as just the right substance was jolted by a spark of energy to start a cycle of life that did not die as is the nature of all life, but continued to reproduce in an absolutely horrible atmosphere that had to wait millions of years for water to form. That is saying you believe in the God of Creation and the god that is evolution, both at the same time. But our God, our creator is a jealous God. You can't have both.

Really, there is no need to construct lurid misrepresentations of evolution to make your point. We get it: It's about the Bible, not God.

Speedwell · Jun 17, 2018

Brightmoon said:
I’ve also been aware for decades that the KJV is considered to be a poor translation of the original texts by bible scholars . It’s also considered to be beautiful and poetic by those same scholars

Me too, Although I rather prefer Coverdale, found in the 1928 version of the BCP. In general, my opinion is that if choosing the "correct" translation makes a great deal of difference to you, you are chopping your theology way too fine.

PsychoSarah · Jun 17, 2018

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
You live in a world very different to mine if you think that people worship science as a god.

Worshiping science would be like worshiping a specific way of washing the dishes.

Brightmoon · Jun 17, 2018

At first I thought AV was polydactylous . Funny AV , funny!

The Fossil Record- As God Would Have Made It Through Time

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

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I'll think about it.

I'll think about it.

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Well-Known Member

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Well-Known Member

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

I'll think about it.

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Well-Known Member

I'll think about it.

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Chaotic Neutral

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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