OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

justbyfaith said:

That is a lot of ground to cover, and I'm sure I would find it eventually if I read with the extensive reading that it would take to find the verses. I do read through the Old Testament slowly compared to my other reading (a little more than twice every three years). I am not of the kind of thinking to search for the verses just so I can prove a point.

But you need to know that the NT is just as inspired, if not more inspired, than the OT. You yourself said recently that you don't have anything against the NT. If that be true, then you accept it as inspired, and therefore OT verses are not required to prove a point if NT verses prove that point.

Click to expand...

But, aren't we told to prove all things? Why do so many have a problem with me proving what is written in the NT? If we are told it was unbelief which caused OT people to be cut off, I want to know where this is found in the OT.

Major1 said:

If a person who calls themselves born again, never shows any fruit/woks in their lives, then they are probably not saved.

Click to expand...

Then what would it take for them to be genuinely saved? Would it be fruit/works in their lives?

EmSw said:

That doesn't mention how OT saints were saved and received life.

Maybe you can tell us what 'live' means. Is it just a head knowledge?

Click to expand...

Certainly it does.

The Biblical truth is the same today as it was in Genesis. Both the Old and New Testaments clearly teach that everyone who is saved, throughout all history, is saved the same way: by grace, through faith, on account of Christ alone.

Romans 4:2-3......
"If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness".

Romans 3:20...…..
“By works of the law no human being will be justified in his sigh” .

Are those verses in your Bible?????

bbbbbbb said:

Psalm 40:1 I waited patiently for the Lord;
And He inclined to me and heard my cry.
2 He brought me up out of the pit of destruction, out of the miry clay,
And He set my feet upon a rock making my footsteps firm.
3 He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God;
Many will see and fear
And will trust in the Lord.


4 How blessed is the man who has made the Lord his trust,
And has not turned to the proud, nor to those who lapse into falsehood.
5 Many, O Lord my God, are the wonders which You have done,
And Your thoughts toward us;
There is none to compare with You.
If I would declare and speak of them,
They would be too numerous to count.


6 Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired;
My ears You have opened;
Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required.
7 Then I said, “Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God;
Your Law is within my heart.”


9 I have proclaimed glad tidings of righteousness in the great congregation;
Behold, I will not restrain my lips,
O Lord, You know.
10 I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart;
I have spoken of Your faithfulness and Your salvation;
I have not concealed Your lovingkindness and Your truth from the great congregation.


11 You, O Lord, will not withhold Your compassion from me;
Your lovingkindness and Your truth will continually preserve me.
12 For evils beyond number have surrounded me;
My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to see;
They are more numerous than the hairs of my head,
And my heart has failed me.


13 Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me;
Make haste, O Lord, to help me.
14 Let those be ashamed and humiliated together
Who seek my life to destroy it;
Let those be turned back and dishonored
Who delight in my hurt.
15 Let those be appalled because of their shame
Who say to me, “Aha, aha!”
16 Let all who seek You rejoice and be glad in You;
Let those who love Your salvation say continually,
“The Lord be magnified!”
17 Since I am afflicted and needy,
Let the Lord be mindful of me.
You are my help and my deliverer;
Do not delay, O my God.

Click to expand...

I noticed you had nothing to say about Jesus' words on taking up our cross. It is by losing your life, on your own cross and denying yourself that you save your life.

EmSw said:

Then what would it take for them to be genuinely saved? Would it be fruit/works in their lives?

Click to expand...

Good grief my brother. It takes FAITH to be saved. I am amazed at how much you are conflicted with and rejecting the Word of God.

Rom. 3:28-30…….
"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5…………….
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1...………..
"therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;"

Rom. 9:30………….
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;"

Rom. 10:4...………..
"For "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6……………
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16…………….
"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21…………….
" I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Gal. 3:5-6………..
"Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24...…….
"Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9…………
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9………………
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, as everyone can clearly see, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly; and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone.
Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too? | CARM.org

The Bible tells us plainly that faith is essential to salvation, and without faith no man can be saved.

I really do not understand why that is so difficult for anyone to believe and understand.

Major1 said:

Certainly it does.

The Biblical truth is the same today as it was in Genesis. Both the Old and New Testaments clearly teach that everyone who is saved, throughout all history, is saved the same way: by grace, through faith, on account of Christ alone.

Romans 4:2-3......
"If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness".

Romans 3:20...…..
“By works of the law no human being will be justified in his sigh” .

Are those verses in your Bible?????

Click to expand...

Let me give some OT passages which actually say how they were saved and received life. Tell me how many times you see grace, faith, and Christ alone.

Psalm 7:10
My defense is of God, Who saves the upright in heart.

Psalm 18:27
For You will save the humble people, but will bring down haughty looks.

Psalm 34:18
The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit.

Proverbs 4:4
He also taught me, and said to me: “let your heart retain my words; Keep my commands, and live.

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commands and live, and my law as the apple of your eye.

Proverbs 28:18
Whoever walks blamelessly will be saved, but he who is perverse in his ways will suddenly fall.

Jeremiah 38:20
But Jeremiah said, “they shall not deliver you. Please, obey the voice of the Lord which I speak to you. So it shall be well with you, and your soul shall live.

Ezekiel 3:21
Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul.”

Ezekiel 18:9
If he has walked in My statutes and kept My judgments faithfully— He is just; He shall surely live!” Says the Lord God.

Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Ezekiel 18:22
None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.

Ezekiel 18:23
Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:28
Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

Isaiah 30:15
For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: “in returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength.” But you would not...

I have given these passages which state how OT saints were saved and received life. I didn't ask for a passage which states how righteousness was accounted to them, or how they were justified.

EmSw said:

I noticed you had nothing to say about Jesus' words on taking up our cross. It is by losing your life, on your own cross and denying yourself that you save your life.

Click to expand...

Isn't that a real "silly " question?

Aren't you the person who said that we should limit "silly" comments?"

Your exact words in comment #487 were...……..
"Don't play silly games on here. "

EmSw said:

Let me give some OT passages which actually say how they were saved and received life. Tell me how many times you see grace, faith, and Christ alone.

Psalm 7:10
My defense is of God, Who saves the upright in heart.

Psalm 18:27
For You will save the humble people, but will bring down haughty looks.

Psalm 34:18
The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit.

Proverbs 4:4
He also taught me, and said to me: “let your heart retain my words; Keep my commands, and live.

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commands and live, and my law as the apple of your eye.

Proverbs 28:18
Whoever walks blamelessly will be saved, but he who is perverse in his ways will suddenly fall.

Jeremiah 38:20
But Jeremiah said, “they shall not deliver you. Please, obey the voice of the Lord which I speak to you. So it shall be well with you, and your soul shall live.

Ezekiel 3:21
Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul.”

Ezekiel 18:9
If he has walked in My statutes and kept My judgments faithfully— He is just; He shall surely live!” Says the Lord God.

Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Ezekiel 18:22
None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.

Ezekiel 18:23
Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:28
Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

Isaiah 30:15
For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: “in returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and confidence shall be your strength.” But you would not...

I have given these passages which state how OT saints were saved and received life. I didn't ask for a passage which states how righteousness was accounted to them, or how they were justified.

Click to expand...

That is because YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT.

Old Test. saints were saved the same way that YOU were saved.: FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ plus NOTHING!

Major1 said:

Good grief my brother. It takes FAITH to be saved. I am amazed at how much you are conflicted with and rejecting the Word of God.

Rom. 3:28-30…….
"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5…………….
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1...………..
"therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;"

Rom. 9:30………….
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;"

Rom. 10:4...………..
"For "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6……………
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16…………….
"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21…………….
" I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Gal. 3:5-6………..
"Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24...…….
"Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9…………
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9………………
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, as everyone can clearly see, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly; and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone.
Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too? | CARM.org

The Bible tells us plainly that faith is essential to salvation, and without faith no man can be saved.

I really do not understand why that is so difficult for anyone to believe and understand.

Click to expand...

Good grief!!! I've never said you don't need faith to be saved. It's not difficult for anyone to understand. Earlier you said if a man doesn't have good works in his life, he probably wasn't saved to begin with. Why doesn't faith alone save that man? Why does he need good works to be saved?

And now, a word from the Savior Himself -

Matthew 19:17
...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Do you see that faith alone wasn't mentioned by Jesus as needed to enter life.

Major1 said:

Isn't that a real "silly " question?

Aren't you the person who said that we should limit "silly" comments?"

Your exact words in comment #487 were...……..
"Don't play silly games on here. "

Click to expand...

Why are Jesus' words silly to you? Did Jesus play games with His words?

Major1 said:

That is because YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT.

Old Test. saints were saved the same way that YOU were saved.: FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ plus NOTHING!

Click to expand...

Sweet, soothing words, friend. However, you won't find anywhere in the OT that is how they were saved. Study, study, study.

Major1 said:

That is because YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT.

Old Test. saints were saved the same way that YOU were saved.: FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ plus NOTHING!

Click to expand...

Did you read any of the passages I gave about how OT saints were saved and received life?

If you did, why do you not believe them?

Here is one which agrees with Jesus' words.

Proverbs 4:4
He also taught me, and said to me: “let your heart retain my words; keep my commands, and live.

EmSw said:

But, aren't we told to prove all things? Why do so many have a problem with me proving what is written in the NT? If we are told it was unbelief which caused OT people to be cut off, I want to know where this is found in the OT.

Click to expand...

YES. THat is why so many people are quoting Scripture to YOU!

It was NOT the people of the Old Test. that were cut off my friend. It was the nation of Israel!

EmSw said:

Did you read any of the passages I gave about how OT saints were saved and received life?

If you did, why do you not believe them?

Click to expand...

Yes I did and I did notice that they do NOT teach that works are needed to be saved. That is what you want them to say but it is not the correct exegesis of those verses.

Did YOU read all the NT verses that I posted for you. WHy do you reject the clear words written by the apostles that say works are not needed for salvation.

Major1 said:

YES. THat is why so many people are quoting Scripture to YOU!

It was NOT the people of the Old Test. that were cut off my friend. It was the nation of Israel!

Click to expand...

Was the nation of Israel a bunch of animals, or were they people?

You have yet to quote any OT passage which says how they received life.

Major1 said:

Yes I did and I did notice that they do NOT teach that works are needed to be saved. That is what you want them to say but it is not the correct exegesis of those verses.

Did YOU read all the NT verses that I posted for you. WHy do you reject the clear words written by the apostles that say works are not needed for salvation.

Click to expand...

I guess I have to show you that works were needed. Maybe this time you will read them.

Proverbs 4:4
He also taught me, and said to me: “let your heart retain my words; keep my commands, and live.

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commands and live, and my law as the apple of your eye.

Proverbs 28:18
Whoever walks blamelessly will be saved, but he who is perverse in his ways will suddenly fall.

Jeremiah 38:20
But Jeremiah said, “they shall not deliver you. Please, obey the voice of the Lord which I speak to you. So it shall be well with you, and your soul shall live.

Ezekiel 18:9
If he has walked in My statutes and kept My judgments faithfully— He is just; he shall surely live!” Says the Lord God.

Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Ezekiel 18:22
None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.

What do you not see about the works mentioned above? This is how OT saints were saved.

EmSw said:

Sweet, soothing words, friend. However, you won't find anywhere in the OT that is how they were saved. Study, study, study.

Click to expand...

Psalm 49:7-8
"No man can by any means redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him-- For the redemption of his soul is costly, And he should cease trying forever--".

Psalm 127:1-2
"Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain. It is vain for you to rise up early, To retire late, To eat the bread of painful labors; For He gives to His beloved even in his sleep."

Isaiah 64:6"
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Ezekiel 7:19
'They will fling their silver into the streets and their gold will become an abhorrent thing; their silver and their gold will not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD. They cannot satisfy their appetite nor can they fill their stomachs, for their iniquity has become an occasion of stumbling.
What Abraham did was to cast himself totally on the Lord and trust him. He did not know how God was going to save him, but he trusted that God would find a way. We know now that the way that God found to save Abraham was through Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. However, Abraham did not know that, he just trusted blindly that God would find a way. The important thing is that the faith he had is the same faith as ours. We may have more knowledge now about how faith works, but still the core of our faith today is coming to God as our only hope and looking to him for shelter.

In Isaiah 32:2, God is described as a hiding place from the wind and a cover from the tempest, as rivers of water in a dry place, as a shadow of a great rock in a weary land. Those are wonderful words, and they perfectly describe the faith of an Old Testament believer. God was for them a hiding place from the wind, a cover from the tempest, and a refuge. Their faith is the same as our faith.

We now know it is Christ who provides that shelter. Nevertheless, at that time they were looking for a shelter in the same way. Anyone who cried out to God for shelter and came to him in Old Testament times would be saved. When we come to him for shelter from the storm, he will never turn us away. He has made provision through his Son Jesus. They didn’t know the details then, but all they had to know was that God was merciful and if they cast themselves on him then he would show mercy.

Jesus says, “Come to Me, all you who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” That is what Abraham did. He came to God and demonstrated his faith by following God’s commands, and God gave him rest.
How Old Testament saints were saved

Major1 said:

Psalm 49:7-8
"No man can by any means redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him-- For the redemption of his soul is costly, And he should cease trying forever--".

Psalm 127:1-2
"Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain. It is vain for you to rise up early, To retire late, To eat the bread of painful labors; For He gives to His beloved even in his sleep."

Isaiah 64:6"
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Ezekiel 7:19
'They will fling their silver into the streets and their gold will become an abhorrent thing; their silver and their gold will not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD. They cannot satisfy their appetite nor can they fill their stomachs, for their iniquity has become an occasion of stumbling.
What Abraham did was to cast himself totally on the Lord and trust him. He did not know how God was going to save him, but he trusted that God would find a way. We know now that the way that God found to save Abraham was through Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. However, Abraham did not know that, he just trusted blindly that God would find a way. The important thing is that the faith he had is the same faith as ours. We may have more knowledge now about how faith works, but still the core of our faith today is coming to God as our only hope and looking to him for shelter.

In Isaiah 32:2, God is described as a hiding place from the wind and a cover from the tempest, as rivers of water in a dry place, as a shadow of a great rock in a weary land. Those are wonderful words, and they perfectly describe the faith of an Old Testament believer. God was for them a hiding place from the wind, a cover from the tempest, and a refuge. Their faith is the same as our faith.

We now know it is Christ who provides that shelter. Nevertheless, at that time they were looking for a shelter in the same way. Anyone who cried out to God for shelter and came to him in Old Testament times would be saved. When we come to him for shelter from the storm, he will never turn us away. He has made provision through his Son Jesus. They didn’t know the details then, but all they had to know was that God was merciful and if they cast themselves on him then he would show mercy.

Jesus says, “Come to Me, all you who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” That is what Abraham did. He came to God and demonstrated his faith by following God’s commands, and God gave him rest.
How Old Testament saints were saved

Click to expand...

As usual, you don't believe the passages I gave you. And yes, they did say to turn from their evil ways.

Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

I can read for myself how OT saints were saved. They had to do things, that is, turn from their wickedness, keep His statutes, and do what is lawful and right. Then they shall surely live. Do you believe this?

Do believe Jesus also, when He said to enter life, keep the commandments? Please answer this question. It will tell us a lot about the faith you have.

EmSw said:

I guess I have to show you that works were needed. Maybe this time you will read them.

Proverbs 4:4
He also taught me, and said to me: “let your heart retain my words; keep my commands, and live.

Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commands and live, and my law as the apple of your eye.

Proverbs 28:18
Whoever walks blamelessly will be saved, but he who is perverse in his ways will suddenly fall.

Jeremiah 38:20
But Jeremiah said, “they shall not deliver you. Please, obey the voice of the Lord which I speak to you. So it shall be well with you, and your soul shall live.

Ezekiel 18:9
If he has walked in My statutes and kept My judgments faithfully— He is just; he shall surely live!” Says the Lord God.

Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Ezekiel 18:22
None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.

What do you not see about the works mentioned above? This is how OT saints were saved.

Click to expand...

NOPE!

Not one single Scripture teaches "works plus Faith" = salvation.

I am not going to take the time to correctly explain every Old Test. verse that you cherry pick and try to use to validate a doctrine that does not exist.

Lets do just one. Ezekiel 18:24 has been used by the the Congregational Holiness Church, the Wesleyan Holiness Movement, and the Charismatic Movement to misinterpret Ezekiel to teach that a Christian can lose their salvation. Nothing could be further from the truth!

Oral Roberts and his family came from the Holiness Movement out of Oklahoma. He was a product that came from the Latter Rain Pentecostal Movement of the late 1940’s, and was a well known demonic faith healer. Taken by itself out of context, WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH EVERY SINGLE VERSE YOU POST, Ezekiel does appear to support the doctrine that a man can fall away from salvation.

However, as you will see from other Scriptures in Ezekiel, this is NOT the case at all.
Ezekiel 33:12-13 states ...

"Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it."

Did you read that?
... “If he trust in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

This is the heart of the matter here. God is simply condemning self-righteousness. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3-4 ...

“For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”

To claim that a person who commits sin can lose their salvation is to totally ignore such powerful Scriptures as Genesis 15:6 concerning Abraham, “And he (Abraham) believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness.” The Apostle Paul plainly stated in Romans 4:5, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

These Scriptures clearly eliminate “works” as a necessity to one's eternal salvation.

The damnable heresy which falsely teaches that a believer can lose salvation is nothing less than a form of Lordship Salvation. Whereas the Lordship Salvation crowd teaches that a person must forsake their sins to be saved; the eternal insecurity crowd teaches that committing sin will cause a person to lose salvation.
Then YOUR crowd who teaches WORKS are necessary are based upon self-righteousness and all 3 are WRONG!.

Now I do not have the time or the paticence to do this with every verse you cherry pick and post. But I will say that every single one of them have a proper teaching and explination and NOT ONE OF THEM IS THAT WORKS ARE NEED ED TO BE SAVED.

EmSw said:

As usual, you don't believe the passages I gave you. And yes, they did say to turn from their evil ways.

Ezekiel 18:21
“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

I can read for myself how OT saints were saved. They had to do things, that is, turn from their wickedness, keep His statutes, and do what is lawful and right. Then they shall surely live. Do you believe this?

Do believe Jesus also, when He said to enter life, keep the commandments? Please answer this question. It will tell us a lot about the faith you have.

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Read post #560!