Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

Doug Melven said:

Psalms 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
We should know the God whom we serve, He is great and awesome. But don't think for one second that He wants us to be afraid of Him.
Isaiah 43:1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

God does not want us to be afraid of Him, respect Him, be in awe of Him.

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I certainly was not emphasizing fear in the post you are responding to here. I was pointing out that certain three scriptures appear to me to be saying the same essential thing.

FreeGrace2 said:

Which is what, in your opinion?

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That's for me to know and you to find out. Maybe you should seek the Lord for the answer as to what these scriptures all say that is the same. But if you don't understand, it is perhaps because of what is written in 1 Corinthians 2:13-14, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27.

FreeGrace2 said:

Well, I've shown that my beliefs come straight from the Bible, so at least everyone who reads this thread knows EXACTLY what you think of the Bible.

You need a lot of .

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You have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5).

FreeGrace2 said:

Well, I've shown that my beliefs come straight from the Bible, so at least everyone who reads this thread knows EXACTLY what you think of the Bible.

You need a lot of .

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Don't you know that ours come straight from the same Bible? @justbyfaith and I will continue living righteously in agreement to the Holy Spirit in us and the many scriptures you ignore or misinterpret. And you and Doug keep your backs braced without humility, and teach your false doctrine.

John 10:28
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Taken out of context, the universalists who believe the whole world will be saved based on this scripture, is also true.

NO!

John 10:27
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

FreeGrace2 said:

All 3 passages are related by a behavior list. And the behaviors are about the same things.

Now, notice that in Gal 5 and 1 Cor 6 we have the phrase "will not inherit the kingdom", but in Eph 5 we have "have no inheritrance in the kingdom".

But since the 3 passages are parallel, the phrases "will not inherit the kingdom" is the same as "have no inheritance in the kingdom", so we must recognize that the phrase "will not inherit the kingdom" cannot mean "will not ENTER the kingdom", since Eph 5 says "have no inheritance IN the kingdom", clearly indicating that the person will be IN the kingdom.

The point is that one can be IN the kingdom while not having any inheritance in the kingdom.

So, what will these immoral types lose in the kingdom? Reward, of course.

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I would like to go back to these scriptures. I find your interpretation to be very disturbing, and also that @Doug Melven agrees with you. I just can't leave it alone for fear others will be tantalized with their own itching ears by your mere "lack of rewards" theory, instead of the wrath of God. These three passages have references to either "rewards," or not inheriting the KINGDOM OF GOD that you refer to as just not receiving "rewards."

FreeGrace2 said:
"The point is that one can be IN the kingdom while not having any inheritance in the kingdom.

So, what will these immoral types lose in the kingdom? Reward, of course.

I will show you using the same scriptures you used, and only what the scriptures actually say, not adding anything about lack of rewards from a passage of scripture on a completely different subject matter (ministry), and superimposing that onto 'sins of the flesh,' as you have done, and that those immoral types will receive the wrath of God, not a mere loss of rewards. For the wages of sin is death:

Ephesians 5:
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

That passage clearly has nothing to do with a lack of rewards in the kingdom of Christ and God. Those practicing sin will have the wrath of God to look forward to, and not in heaven! Also, the warning of "let no one deceive you with empty words" - how fitting.

Next:

1 Corinthians 3:
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

That had to do with ministry, building the Church - not sin. There is not one sin mentioned in this whole passage. The subject is, did their teachings last the test of time? They are saved, but like the doctrine of the Christian Judaizers which would have burned, what lasted?

Next:

Galatians 5:
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

We can be assured that the theory of a mere lack of rewards for sin based on 1 Corinthians 3 is erroneous. We can also be assured that just like in Ephesians 5 and Galatians 5, those not having an inheritance in the Kingdom of God will see the wrath of God.

John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

justbyfaith said:

There are many great preachers in history who have said that men will not appreciate the good news of the gospel unless they hear the bad news first: that they are sinners and that the wages of sin is death (eternal separation from God). People come to know that they are sinners through the law (Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4). So then, preaching on the requirement is vitally important for people to receive the grace aspect of what scripture teaches.

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This goes along with Jude.
1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

There is a lace for preaching to the lost about the wrath of God.
What wrath can do, love can do much better.
Those who get saved by the preaching of the wrath of God have a hard road to grow in the Christian life as they will always see God as wrathful and ready to jump on them for every sin.
The only time the wrath of God should be preached to believers is to motivate them if they are unmotivated to evangelize the lost, because they should know what the destination of the lost is if they don't repent.
God's children are never under the wrath of God. And if someone has become a child of God, God has promised He would never cast them out. John 6:37 This concept of jumping out of god's hand is silly.
If someone who Jesus gave eternal life to perished, that would mean Jesus lied.

justbyfaith said:

Also, it is true that the Holy Spirit convicts people of sin because they don't really believe in Jesus (John 16:8-9). So if there is any conviction that you are feeling, consider that it might be because of unbelief on your part.

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The Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. Please do a careful study of John 16:6-11 to find out who the Holy Spirit convicts and what He convicts them of.

The Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. Please do a careful study of John 16:6-11 to find out who the Holy Spirit convicts and what He convicts them of.

Doug......would you care to elaborate when you get the time.I did a careful study of Ohio State, I discovered that even if Heaven and Earth pass away the Buckeyes will rule and the Wolverines will drool.

Doug Melven said:

The only time the wrath of God should be preached to believers is to motivate them if they are unmotivated to evangelize the lost, because they should know what the destination of the lost is if they don't repent.
God's children are never under the wrath of God.

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True for a true Christian. Unfortunately, when the wrath of God is erroneously thought of as a mere lack of rewards for itching ears, the hard truth must be told.

1stcenturylady said:

True for a true Christian. Unfortunately, when the wrath of God is erroneously thought of as a mere lack of rewards for itching ears, the hard truth must be told.

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When one has to wear lack of rewards for eternity it may not seem erroneous then. What tapestry are you weaving by erroneously portraying God as punisher when those who approach Him must believe He is One who rewards. Hebrews 11:6

Doug Melven said:

The Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. Please do a careful study of John 16:6-11 to find out who the Holy Spirit convicts and what He convicts them of.

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That's what I said: weren't you even listening?

~Cassia~ said:

When one has to wear lack of rewards for eternity it may not seem erroneous then. What tapestry are you weaving by erroneously portraying God as punisher when those who approach Him must believe He is One who rewards. Hebrews 11:6

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God does indeed punish people for their sins, believers and unbelievers alike (see Amos 3:2 (kjv) and Hebrews 12:6).

Doug Melven said:

This goes along with Jude.
1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

There is a lace for preaching to the lost about the wrath of God.
What wrath can do, love can do much better.
Those who get saved by the preaching of the wrath of God have a hard road to grow in the Christian life as they will always see God as wrathful and ready to jump on them for every sin.
The only time the wrath of God should be preached to believers is to motivate them if they are unmotivated to evangelize the lost, because they should know what the destination of the lost is if they don't repent.
God's children are never under the wrath of God. And if someone has become a child of God, God has promised He would never cast them out. John 6:37 This concept of jumping out of god's hand is silly.
If someone who Jesus gave eternal life to perished, that would mean Jesus lied.

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God decides from eternity, not from time, who will receive eternal life. And I was not speaking so much of the wrath of God as I was speaking of the requirement of the law that brings the wrath of God on those who cannot live up to it. This is intended to drive a person to the Cross of Jesus Christ in contrition and mourning over his sinful state, so that he can come to Christ in full surrender and receive forgiveness, accepting Jesus not only as Saviour but as Lord.

justbyfaith said:

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God does indeed punish people for their sins, believers and unbelievers alike (see Amos 3:2 (kjv) and Hebrews 12:6).

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I don't think your portraying that correctly in comparing the believer's access to God and His way of training to the unbelief met with in the old covenant. Rewards and loss of rewards are at the judgement seat of Christ.

Rewards (in contrast to OSAS debate) | Christian Forums

FreeGrace2 said in post #2739:

I also showed from 3 parallel passages that the phrase "not inherit the kingdom" is equivalent to "have no inheritance IN the kingdom", which shows that believers will be IN the kingdom, but have NO inheritance there.

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Christians who will ultimately lose their salvation will not even be in the Kingdom (Matthew 8:11-12).

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FreeGrace2 said in post #2740:

. . . lunacy is reading the very clear words of Jesus about recipients of eternal life never perishing and still believing that recipients of eternal life MAY perish.

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Under certain conditions (e.g. Hebrews 10:26-29).

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FreeGrace2 said in post #2743:

So no believer CAN EVER end up perishing.

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Christians can end up perishing (e.g. Luke 13:3).

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FreeGrace2 said in post #2748:

[Re: 2 Pet. 1:10-11]
Do you understand the significance between an "entrance" vs an "abundant entrance"?

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No entrance ultimately without obedience (Matthew 7:21).

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FreeGrace2 said in post #2757:

If that were true, then the words "ETERNAL life" would be meaningless.

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Possessing something eternal in itself does not require that someone will eternally keep possession of it. For example, imagine that one of the eternal precious stones of the heavenly city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:19) happened to be given to someone living now on the earth, and he kept it in his pocket. But after a few years, he got complacent about it, and sold it to a jeweler for a tremendous load of cash (cf. Hebrews 12:16-17). Does this mean that it was not eternal?

FreeGrace2 said in post #2757:

Peter said believers have been born AGAIN of IMPERISHABLE seed.

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1 Peter 1:23 refers to the same seed as 1 John 3:9, which is the Spirit of Jesus Christ the Son of God in 1 John 3:8b (cf. 1 John 4:15, John 20:31), who comes to dwell within Christians (Galatians 4:6) through the seed of faith (Ephesians 3:17, Luke 17:6), which comes by hearing (Romans 10:17) the seed of the Word of God (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11, Colossians 3:16).

While such divine seed is imperishable in itself, Christians themselves can still perish (e.g. Luke 12:45-46).

justbyfaith said in post #2746:

. . . if someone falls away, their faith was not a heart faith that was living and saving . . .

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Hebrews 6:4-8 shows that true Christians, who have repented and become partakers of God's Holy Spirit, can ultimately lose their salvation because of subsequently wrongly employing their free will to "fall away", to commit apostasy, to stop believing (like in Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3), just as other Bible verses show the same thing (John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).

One way that a true Christian could be brought to the point where he commits apostasy would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he begins to listen to the lies of demons and latch onto them, to the point where he departs from the Christian faith (1 Timothy 4:1). In a wrong desire to continue in their lusts without repentance, Christians can reach the point where they are no longer able to endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, and instead seek out and latch onto other teachings which will help to support them in their lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

Another way that a true Christian could be brought to the point where he commits apostasy would be if he has a terror of being tortured and killed during a persecution against Christians, so that during such a persecution he renounces his faith in Jesus Christ and the Gospel in order to avoid being tortured and killed (Mark 8:35-38; 2 Timothy 2:12). Some Christians will fall away in this sense (2 Thessalonians 2:3) during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:9-13, cf. Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13), when the future Antichrist will take power over the earth, make war against Biblical Christians (not in hiding), and physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

There will be no way to repent from committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8), and worshipping the future Antichrist and his image, and willingly receiving his mark on the forehead or right hand, even if this is done just to keep from getting killed (Revelation 13:15-18). Whoever does these things, even if he had been a Christian before, will end up suffering punishment from God in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-12). So Christians must be willing to be killed, even by getting beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6), before they would ever do any of these things (Revelation 14:12-13).

This ties in with the fact that a true Christian can ultimately have his name blotted out of the Book of Life, if he does not overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). An example of Christians ultimately "overcoming" (Greek: nikao, G3528), or "getting the victory" (nikao) (Revelation 15:2), is found later in the book of Revelation, in Revelation 15:2, which refers to those Christians who will be willing to be killed by the future Antichrist instead of worshipping him in order to save their mortal lives during the future, worldwide persecution against Biblical Christians (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). Christians will be able to spiritually "overcome" the Antichrist and Satan by not loving their lives to the death (Revelation 12:11).

justbyfaith said in post #2746:

. . . if someone falls away, their faith was not a heart faith that was living and saving . . .

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Regarding "a heart faith", Christian faith must not be based solely on heart feelings, which can be very deceptive (Jeremiah 17:9, Proverbs 28:26, Proverbs 14:12), but must also be a rational/intellectual enterprise. For saving faith requires mental assent (Philippians 3:15-16, Romans 12:2; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25, Romans 8:6) to Biblical doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4; 1 Timothy 4:16; 2 John 1:9-10; 1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:9), and continuing to remember that doctrine (1 Corinthians 15:2; 2 Peter 3:1-2; 2 Corinthians 11:3).

For example, in order for people to be saved from hell, they must believe (and continue to believe to the end: Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23; 1 Corinthians 15:2) the Biblical doctrine that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36, 1 John 2:23), and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins, and physically resurrected from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

justbyfaith said in post #2746:

. . . if someone falls away, their faith was not a heart faith that was living and saving . . .

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Calvinism's mistaken doctrine of once-saved-always-saved through assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that Christians are robots. For if Christians cannot choose to do evil to the point where they can ultimately lose their salvation, then they no longer have free will. Also, the mistaken doctrine of assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that a Christian can have no present assurance that he is truly saved. For if a Christian who does not persevere to the end was never truly saved, then no Christian can presently have the assurance that he is truly saved. For no Christian can know if he will persevere to the end. Down the road, he could fail to persevere, and so end up showing that he was all along only a fake Christian, a self-deceived hypocrite.

But under true, Biblical doctrine, every believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know that he is presently saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), if, after he became a Christian, he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6), and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a Christian fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin seventy-times-seven times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin, and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

Doug Melven said in post #2754:

He is merciful to our unrighteousness, and our sins and lawless deeds He remembers no more.

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Only so long as we repent and confess (1 John 1:9).

Doug Melven said in post #2754:

God's children are not subject to God's wrath.

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They will be if they don't repent (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Doug Melven said in post #2754:

We should know the God whom we serve, He is great and awesome. But don't think for one second that He wants us to be afraid of Him.

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He does (Luke 12:4-5).

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Doug Melven said in post #2766:

. . . if someone has become a child of God, God has promised He would never cast them out. John 6:37

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John 6:37a applies only to initial salvation. For John 6:37b (like John 6:35b) apples only to those Christians who continue to believe (John 15:6, Hebrews 3:6,12,14), do good works (John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), and repent from any sins that they commit (Luke 13:3), to the end (Matthew 24:13, Hebrews 10:26-29). For Jesus Christ will ultimately cast out some Christians because of unrepentant sin (1 Corinthians 9:27), or unrepentant laziness (John 15:2a,6), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8), at the judgment of the Church by Jesus at His future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46, Matthew 25:26,30, Mark 8:35-38).

Doug Melven said in post #2766:

This concept of jumping out of god's hand is silly.

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Christians can wrongly jump out of God's hand, and "fall away", because of free will (e.g. Hebrews 6:4-8).

OSAS ultimately negates free will.

Doug Melven said in post #2766:

If someone who Jesus gave eternal life to perished, that would mean Jesus lied.

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No, for He expects us to know more than one verse (Isaiah 28:9-10).

Doug Melven said in post #2766:

The Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin.

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He does (Revelation 3:19,22).

~Cassia~ said:

When one has to wear lack of rewards for eternity it may not seem erroneous then. What tapestry are you weaving by erroneously portraying God as punisher when those who approach Him must believe He is One who rewards. Hebrews 11:6

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Oh my! Another one who believes the wrath of God is merely a lack of rewards. What a lukewarm church age we live in.

Are you a Universalist?

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
But, it's clear that you'd RATHER see children of God die spiritually AGAIN, just to satisfy your warped sense of "justice", and complete failure to understand what grace is.

Anyone who thinks rebellious children should be separated from their Father for eternity, in spite of what Jesus said, do have an attitude that is contrary to Scripture.


What you don't understand is that no one dies spiritually twice. All are born spiritually dead to begin with. After one is born AGAIN, they CANNOT die spiritually.

justbyfaith said:

So they are twice dead physically in Jude 1:12? How does that happen?

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It doesn't. Please read the verse again. It doesn't say "twice dead physically". You added what isn't there.

So, how does "twice dead" occur? Physical death and spiritual death. 1 + 1 = 2.

There is no internal contradiction; and falling away does mean losing salvation.

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You can say so as many times as you like, but that doesn't make it true.

Show me how it is you think that the Bible is internally contradicted if falling away means losing salvation.

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Because Jesus said recipients of eternal life (saved people) shall never perish. If you don't see any contradiction between losing salvation and never perishing, there is no hope for you.

I have explained that there are two kinds of faith or believing that is spoken of by the same Greek word, even as the word "love" translated from English to Greek can be translated into four different words based on the context in English, so "believing" and "faith" can mean more than one thing, based on context, when we read it in our Bibles as it is translated "believe" or "faith" from the original Greek, and in the English. We distinguish these two different types of faith, not with different words in Greek or English, but by defining them with adjectives.

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Your notions of "2 kinds of faith" are not found in the Bible. There is no support for it.

Your doctrine is deplorable and not according to godliness (see 1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:1).

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Why don't you tell that to Jesus Christ, who taught me that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Which is what, in your opinion?

justbyfaith said:

That's for me to know and you to find out.

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Why are you so unwilling to make yourself clear and answer simple questions?

What are you hiding?

Maybe you should seek the Lord for the answer as to what these scriptures all say that is the same.

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I have done that, and what I learned is that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, but you don't believe that.

Maybe you should take your own advice, hm.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Well, I've shown that my beliefs come straight from the Bible, so at least everyone who reads this thread knows EXACTLY what you think of the Bible.

You need a lot of .

1stcenturylady said:

Don't you know that ours come straight from the same Bible?

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Of course they don't. Or you'd be agreeing with me.

@justbyfaith and I will continue living righteously in agreement to the Holy Spirit in us and the many scriptures you ignore or misinterpret.

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And you've FAILED to demonstrate this bogus charge in any way. Johb 10:28 doesn't need "interpretation". Jesus was straightforward in His teaching that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

And you and Doug keep your backs braced without humility, and teach your false doctrine.

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Tell that to Jesus Christ, who taught me that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:28
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Taken out of context, the universalists who believe the whole world will be saved based on this scripture, is also true.

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There is no context that changes the very clear principle that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

John 10:27
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

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This is a description of His sheep, not a condition for anything.

The condition for never perishing is found in v.28; to be given eternal life.

1stcenturylady said:

I would like to go back to these scriptures. I find your interpretation to be very disturbing, and also that @Doug Melven agrees with you. I just can't leave it alone for fear others will be tantalized with their own itching ears by your mere "lack of rewards" theory, instead of the wrath of God. These three passages have references to either "rewards," or not inheriting the KINGDOM OF GOD that you refer to as just not receiving "rewards."

FreeGrace2 said:
"The point is that one can be IN the kingdom while not having any inheritance in the kingdom.

So, what will these immoral types lose in the kingdom? Reward, of course.

I will show you using the same scriptures you used, and only what the scriptures actually say, not adding anything about lack of rewards from a passage of scripture on a completely different subject matter (ministry), and superimposing that onto 'sins of the flesh,' as you have done, and that those immoral types will receive the wrath of God, not a mere loss of rewards. For the wages of sin is death:

Ephesians 5:
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

That passage clearly has nothing to do with a lack of rewards in the kingdom of Christ and God. Those practicing sin will have the wrath of God to look forward to, and not in heaven! Also, the warning of "let no one deceive you with empty words" - how fitting.

Next:

1 Corinthians 3:
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

That had to do with ministry, building the Church - not sin. There is not one sin mentioned in this whole passage. The subject is, did their teachings last the test of time? They are saved, but like the doctrine of the Christian Judaizers which would have burned, what lasted?

Next:

Galatians 5:
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

We can be assured that the theory of a mere lack of rewards for sin based on 1 Corinthians 3 is erroneous. We can also be assured that just like in Ephesians 5 and Galatians 5, those not having an inheritance in the Kingdom of God will see the wrath of God.

John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

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I'm not going to bother responding to any of this post (2765) as I have already explained what the 3 parallel passages are about.

You're free to accept truth or make up your own stuff.

But what is clear is your animus towards the biblical teaching of eternal reward. It's all over the NT, but you refer to it as "mere lack of rewards theory".

It may be only "mere" to you, but it's truth.