Muslims: what is the logic behind these verses in the Qur'an?

GeorgeTwo

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"A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah. So do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (themselves as well as others). So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), he cannot, after that, re- marry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand." S. 2:229-230

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PloverWing

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Here is one Muslim scholar's commentary:

Another example of a practice that caused suffering and that raised demands for change, and in turn elicited a strong Qur'anic response relates to repeated marriages and divorces done in an abusive way. In pre-Islamic Arabia, a man enjoyed the exclusive right to divorce his wife with or without cause. After the divorce, a woman was compelled to go through something known as the 'idda (a specific waiting period before she could marry again), during which a husband could remarry his divorcee without a new contract or dowry. Many men started using these privileges as a way to torment women -- as a way of spite, a man would divorce his wife, wait until a day or two before the 'idda period was about to expire, and then remarry his wife again, only to divorce her again immediately so that a new waiting period would begin. This would be done over and over without any limit. This was used as a way of keeping a woman hanging -- such a woman would neither be married nor divorced. As long as the husband kept taking his divorcee back shortly before the end of the waiting period, the wife would remain in an impossible situation, never being able to remarry as long as her husband kept exercising his option during the waiting period. In one version of this same practice, husbands would add insult to injury by proclaiming, one or two days before the end of the waiting period, "La'ibt" ("I was just playing, jesting, or fooling around").

Several women complained to the Prophet about these practices and asked for a solution, and the Prophet asked them to wait until he received revelation on the matter. The Qur'anic response to these practices was manifold, and as is typical of Qur'anic methodology, the Qur'an limited the potential for abuse without fundamentally changing the existing social structure. Condemning those who divorce and remarry women out of a desire to torment and harass them, the Qur'an exclaimed that a husband should either live with his wife in kindness and honor, or divorce her also in kindness and honor; but in all situations, those who hold on to their wives in order to torment or harass them have committed a great sin and they have become among those who are unjust toward themselves. In addition, while not eradicating the practice of 'idda, the Qur'an limited the process to two times. A husband and wife may divorce and return to each other during the waiting period, but only two times. If there is a third divorce, they cannot remarry during the waiting period. As to those who insulted their wives by telling them they were just jesting, the Qur'an describes such behavior as sinful and responds by saying: "Do not mock the words and decrees of your Lord."

Source: Khaled Abou El Fadl, The Great Theft: Wrestling Islam from the Extremists, HarperOne, 2007, pp. 269-270.
 
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com7fy8

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Well . . . I have a couple of ideas.

If she gets away from yet another husband, it is possible she is not very desirable and so it doesn't matter if her first husband gets her back. It might be just as well that he gets back with her, rather than get with someone else who is more desirable but ignorant enough to get with him and then find out he is a lousy husband. Instead, let the woman who keeps not working out get back with the guy who keeps not working out.

But I see the point of being concerned about if they can meet the standards. If they don't, they could be stoned for adultery. So, they get a divorce so they don't get in such trouble. Then maybe they can marry whoever is a temptation? But after that fails, now the ones first married can realize that the ones tempting them to adultery weren't so great, after all but in marriage, and they might get homesick to get back with each other. So, this rule could work for something somewhat better > they they can test themselves with others without getting stoned, then realize it was best with the ones they started with.

Of course, Jesus would say this is adultery.

And, of course, each Muslim might have a different explanation about this.
 
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Robban

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It would be an abomination.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4.

4,
her first husband, who had sent her away,

may not take her again to be his wife,

since she was defiled (to him)

for that is an abomination before the Lord,

and you shall not bring sin to the land the Lord,
your God,
gives you to inheritence.
 
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football5680

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The verses were supposedly revealed to Muhammad due to a situation that arose. Before this verse was supposedly revealed, a man could divorce and then take his wife back an infinite amount of times. So during Muhammad's life, there was a husband and wife and the husband told his wife that he would neither divorce her or take her back, he would wait until her Iddah was almost over and then he would take her back and then divorce her again and he was doing this out of spite. (The iddah is a period of time that a woman must wait before she is eligible to marry again and it lasts a few months. The purpose of it is to see if the woman is pregnant.) So basically the man was saying that he was not going to treat her like she was his wife and he was not going to allow her to marry another man either. The woman brought her complaint to Muhammad and then he was supposedly given these verses.

If a woman married another man and that man divorced her, then her first husband could take her back because this would not be done in spite since the husband did not prevent her from marrying somebody else.

The first portion of the verses is talking about the Mahr which is the money or goods that a husband gives to his bride when they are married. If the husband wants a divorce, he cannot demand that his wife return what he gave to her. If the wife wants a divorce and she does not have a legitimate justification, then it would be permissible for the wife to return what she was given from her husband.
 
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GeorgeTwo

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Marriage in Islam is still quite unfair in this sense a man may simply divorce his wife with the triple talaq, yet a women cannot divorce her husband.

So the man and woman made a mistake and realized they wanted to be together, but it is the wife who is pentalized by having to marry another man -- someone she does not want in order to get together with her first husband.
 
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Barney2.0

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So the man and woman made a mistake and realized they wanted to be together, but it is the wife who is pentalized by having to marry another man -- someone she does not want in order to get together with her first husband.
I myself don’t quite understand it, it’s nonsensical to me.
 
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football5680

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So the man and woman made a mistake and realized they wanted to be together, but it is the wife who is pentalized by having to marry another man -- someone she does not want in order to get together with her first husband.
She would have to divorce and remarry her first husband 3 times before she would be required to have a different husband. It is definitely weird but it is most likely an extremely rare occurrence. Most people won't get back together after the first divorce, so the odds of this happening 2 more times, and then they want to get back for the 4th time is extremely unlikely.
 
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PloverWing

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It doesn't say much about what the Allah of the Qur'an thinks of marriage.
Agreed, this passage doesn't really address the nature of marriage at all. Rather, it limits the ability of abusive husbands to use frivolous divorce as a weapon against their wives (see posts #2 and #7 above). We would have to look elsewhere to learn about the Islamic view of marriage itself.
 
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Robban

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However it is not so straight forward,

There is fineprint, so to speak.


Have heard from Christians that,
"What God has joined together man should not seperate."

When talking about divorce,
And they meant that by marrying a divorcee, the chance of the divorcee returning
is cut off, so the new husband has made himself guilty of seperating two, who were joined by God.

There may lay something in that.

I married a divorcee and after something like 25 years she asked me to sign divorce papers.
I was working away from home a lot, during which they had arranged to get married again.
It was for me a hard blow.

But life has to go on, hitting her on the head with Torah verses was not an option.

A consolation is Psalms 4:9,
In peace and harmony I will lie down and sleep,

for You, Lord will make me dwell alone,

and in security.
 
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smaneck

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Marriage in Islam is still quite unfair in this sense a man may simply divorce his wife with the triple talaq, yet a women cannot divorce her husband.

She can, but she must have cause and the support of her male relatives. Triple talaq is considered makruh or reprehensible in Islam.
 
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smaneck

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So the man and woman made a mistake and realized they wanted to be together, but it is the wife who is pentalized by having to marry another man -- someone she does not want in order to get together with her first husband.

This only applies if the man made three mistakes. The whole point is that you can't keep the woman hanging on.
 
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smaneck

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Asking a Muslim to be logical about a book he believes,
when the book he believes is such a simple obvious plagiarism
of the Holy Bible, is like asking a Catholic why he is praying to a statue.

I see you are as hostile to Catholics as you are to Muslims. If you'd actually read both books you would not imagine one is plagiarized from the other. Yes, some of the same stories appear in both but do you conclude Chronicles is plagiarized off of Kings?
 
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Barney2.0

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She can, but she must have cause and the support of her male relatives. Triple talaq is considered makruh or reprehensible in Islam.
According to popular Islamic website Islamqa a women can’t divorce her husband if she does not love him and isn’t that reason enough:

She dislikes her husband but he refuses to divorce her and he does not give her her rights - islamqa.info

Reprehensible or not in Christianity we’d consider things such as the Triple Talaq as abhorrent and an insult in the eyes of God.
 
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smaneck

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According to popular Islamic website Islamqa a women can’t divorce her husband if she does not love him and isn’t that reason enough:

It isn't in Christianity. According to the NT adultery is the only valid cause for divorce. Even abuse isn't sufficient cause, unlike Islam.
 
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