The Bishops are now Making Threats against the US

eastcoast_bsc said:

Catholic bishops rebuke Trump’s asylum changes, suggest ‘canonical penalties’ - Religion News Service


The Bishops are becoming to me like the Democratic Party. They no longer represent my values or beliefs.


Those perfumed princes never worked a day in their lives and pay no taxes. Open borders are a recipe for anarchy and disorder.

Orderly and legal immigration with limits are what makes sense.

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Oh, are there going to be canonical penalties now too for politicians who support abortion? Just wondering.

“Our government has the discretion in our laws to ensure that young children are not separated from their parents and exposed to irreparable harm and trauma. Families are the foundational element of our society and they must be able to stay together,” DiNardo said.


“Separating babies from their mothers is not the answer and is immoral,” he added.
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Bishop Edward Weisenburger of Tucson, Ariz., made a bolder suggestion, raising the possibility of implementing canonical penalties for Catholics “who are involved in this,” referring to children being separated from their families at the border. Canonical penalties can range from denial of sacraments to excommunication, though Weisenburger did not specify what he intended beyond referring to sanctions that already exist for “life issues.”
Catholic bishops rebuke Trump’s asylum changes, suggest ‘canonical penalties’ - Religion News Service

chevyontheriver said:

Oh, are there going to be canonical penalties now too for politicians who support abortion? Just wondering.

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There was reference to, as with other life issues. Basically citing how it can happen with abortion, and implicitly with race issues in the past where communion has been withheld.

They are not calling for open borders. They specifically said that security concerns of a nation must be considered and are important. The issue they have problems with is the dividing of families. St. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI also held this line of refugees in their time. The Church has always held that life issues must be paramount when dealing with refugees and balanced against the security of nation states.
This is in constant Church teaching and even in line with the teaching on intrinsic evil. This is not the Bishops being Democrat or Republican, this is the Bishops upholding Catholic teaching.

The Bishops hold a state has the right to make immigration policy, but a state does not have the right to mar the Image of God in a person or families while doing so. There are serious theological problems with the current actions involving families at the border and the blurring of lines between illegal immigrants and refugees.

Like it or not this is, and has been, part of constant Church teaching... St. Pope John Paul II made that clear in several documents. So did Pope Pius XII when he directly tied it to the Holy Family, echoing constant teaching.

If we look at and condemn the attacks on the family from things like gay marriage, abortion, and the myriad of relativistic ideologies that harm our society, we also have to do the same with the division of families in such a harmful and indiscriminate fashion at the border. The Bishops are 100% right in this and they call for a balance between a nations security and respecting the family and the Image of God in all people. The Image of God is also the foundational concept for our abortion beliefs...we can not just discard it here.

Moreover, we have repeatedly addressed the Rulers of States, the heads of agencies, and all upright and cooperative men, urging upon them the need to consider and resolve the very serious problems of refugees and migrants, and, at the same time, to think of the heavy burdens which all peoples bear because of the war and the specific means that should be applied to alleviate the grave evils. We asked them also to consider how beneficial for humanity it would be if cooperative and joint efforts would relieve, promptly and effectively, the urgent needs of the sufferings, by harmonizing the requirements of justice with needs of charity. Relief alone can remedy, to a certain extent, many unjust social conditions. But we know that this is not sufficient. In the first place, there must be justice, which should prevail and be put into practice.

Likewise, from the first days of our Apostolic Office, we have directed our earnest attention to all our migrant sons, and we have been most anxious about their welfare, both temporal and eternal.

Pius XII


Due to the considerable proportions reached by the illegal migrant phenomenon, legislation in all the countries involved should be brought into harmony, also for a more equitable distribution of the burdens of a balanced solution. It is necessary to avoid recourse to the use of administrative regulations, meant to restrict the criterion of family membership which result in unjustifiably forcing into an illegal situation people whose right to live with their family cannot be denied by any law.

Adequate protection should be guaranteed to those who, although they have fled from their countries for reasons unforeseen by international conventions, could indeed be seriously risking their life were they obliged to return to their homeland.

St. Pope John Paul II

The Church has always said that nations have the right to control immigration but there are greater issues that can not be ignored...and the family is one of them. St. Pope John Paul II and many others have writings on balancing this. The Bishops are following that lead.

Just because the Church firmly stands against family separation does not mean She is for open borders. To conflate the two is a logical fallacy born out of a tribalism that puts party first. And that, left or right, is dangerous.

Venerable John Paul II, on the occasion of this same Day celebrated in 2001, emphasized that "[the universal common good] includes the whole family of peoples, beyond every nationalistic egoism. The right to emigrate must be considered in this context. The Church recognizes this right in every human person, in its dual aspect of the possibility to leave one’s country and the possibility to enter another country to look for better conditions of life" (Message for World Day of Migration 2001, 3; cf. John XXIII, Encyclical Mater et Magistra, 30; Paul VI, Encyclical Octogesima adveniens, 17). At the same time, States have the right to regulate migration flows and to defend their own frontiers, always guaranteeing the respect due to the dignity of each and every human person. Immigrants, moreover, have the duty to integrate into the host Country, respecting its laws and its national identity. "The challenge is to combine the welcome due to every human being, especially when in need, with a reckoning of what is necessary for both the local inhabitants and the new arrivals to live a dignified and peaceful life" (World Day of Peace 2001, 13).

Pope Benedict XVI

What the Bishops are complaining about is that the current policy does not take into account the Dignity of every human being involved. There can be no factual argument that it does . The Church is not upset the borders are being enforced but rather what is happening in the enforcement.

Shameful! Anathema !

Also it's prudent to note the Bishops are not taking political sides. The Bishops strongly and vocally opposed the Obama Administration policy from 2008 to 2012 that attacked families until it was softened before that election. And even after 2012 kept vocally disagreeing with the parts of it that conflicted with Catholic teaching.

Many illegal immigrants use human traffickers called “coyotes” to get here, many of these coyotes are also involved with gun and drug smuggling, and prostitution

If you bring small children around such criminals you are an unfit parent and for the protection of the innocent child it is in their best interest to be put into foster care rather then be left with such negligent parents

This all has an easy solution, if you do not want your kids taken from you, do not sneak into the USA

eastcoast_bsc said:

Catholic bishops rebuke Trump’s asylum changes, suggest ‘canonical penalties’ - Religion News Service


The Bishops are becoming to me like the Democratic Party. They no longer represent my values or beliefs.


Those perfumed princes never worked a day in their lives and pay no taxes. Open borders are a recipe for anarchy and disorder.

Orderly and legal immigration with limits are what makes sense.

Click to expand...

All of the clergy pay taxes on their income just like the rest of us.

The bishops have long said that a country has the right to control their borders. They have consistently said that our immigration system is broken and needs reform, and they are absolutely right about that.

chevyontheriver said:

Oh, are there going to be canonical penalties now too for politicians who support abortion? Just wondering.

Click to expand...

There are canonical penalties for those who are materially involved in procuring, performing, or receiving an abortion, so this would seem pretty consistent to me.

Rhamiel said:

Many illegal immigrants use human traffickers called “coyotes” to get here, many of these coyotes are also involved with gun and drug smuggling, and prostitution

If you bring small children around such criminals you are an unfit parent and for the protection of the innocent child it is in their best interest to be put into foster care rather then be left with such negligent parents

This all has an easy solution, if you do not want your kids taken from you, do not sneak into the USA

Click to expand...

And if your entire neighborhood and country is filled with such criminals and you do nothing to try to remove your family from that situation, what kind of a parent are you?

The Church officially recognizes the plight of refugees, migrants pursuing a better life, and Asylum Seekers with the Holy Family.

Would the Roman soldiers have been justified by law to prevent a family fleeing the legal justice of one king in a province from escaping across the board is into another? By law yes.

But not by any stretch of morality.

There is no moral justification for a Roman soldier in Egypt to tear the Christ child from Our Lady's arms, and perhaps hand Him back over along with the family to Herods "Justice".

And that fact does not lie singulsrly in His identity as the Incarnation.

By identifying these groups, over and over again, with the Holy Family the Magisterium inexorably draws our mind to this comparison as long as we fit our hearts to Catholic teaching rather than our tribal political concepts.

Nations can, should, and must defend their borders. But they must not do so at the cost of human dignity.

The answers are complex and Prudential judgment plays a part in the multiple options for moral solutions.

But we can never accept immoral ones because they are easier. We definitely can never accept them because they are the political line of our chosen group.

eastcoast_bsc said:

Catholic bishops rebuke Trump’s asylum changes, suggest ‘canonical penalties’ - Religion News Service


The Bishops are becoming to me like the Democratic Party. They no longer represent my values or beliefs.


Those perfumed princes never worked a day in their lives and pay no taxes. Open borders are a recipe for anarchy and disorder.

Orderly and legal immigration with limits are what makes sense.

Click to expand...

I agree with much of this. I think it's pretty accurate - even though many don't like to hear it. I talked with our priest, and he went to seminary with our bishop - and I was pretty much told they don't know how to fix some of the problems in the Church.

Why is this with these highly educated men? They have been too disconnected for too long.

Markie Boy said:

I agree with much of this. I think it's pretty accurate - even though many don't like to hear it. I talked with our priest, and he went to seminary with our bishop - and I was pretty much told they don't know how to fix some of the problems in the Church.

Why is this with these highly educated men? They have been too disconnected for too long.

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I don't know how to fix most of the problems in the Church. So I am not critical if some bishops are bewildered by our crazy changing culture. I want them to act in good faith, to be praying people, to stand up and be counted. Many of them are of this sort. Many are excellent. I fear that some should never have been ordained priests though. I wonder about the USCCB staffers who prepare for these meetings.

The specific problem I'm referring to is the decline in families and young people. The priest just says they don't know what to do - while some of the protestant churches are filling up with younger families.

Really bad preaching abounds in Catholicism, and simply being nice and engaging people seems to be a foreign concept. It's like the joy of the Gospel is not really there. If the Gospel message has changed your life, you want to share that.

To be fair there are some good clergy that get it, they just seem to be outnumbered vastly.

chevyontheriver said:

Oh, are there going to be canonical penalties now too for politicians who support abortion? Just wondering.

Click to expand...

Oh, c'mon, give me a mercy sakes break on this -

How many bishops and priests over the past 4 decades have openly come out and said that several policitians (All Democrats) should not present themselves for communion because of their stand on abortion ?

What kind of gaslighting lies do you guys think you can get away with here ?

Also, if you had bothered to read the article you would have found that the bishops decided against the penalities anyway.

eastcoast_bsc said:

Catholic bishops rebuke Trump’s asylum changes, suggest ‘canonical penalties’ - Religion News Service


The Bishops are becoming to me like the Democratic Party. They no longer represent my values or beliefs.


Those perfumed princes never worked a day in their lives and pay no taxes. Open borders are a recipe for anarchy and disorder.

Orderly and legal immigration with limits are what makes sense.

Click to expand...

The United States of American, the country to which the Presidents own party platform claims is the last, best hope for peace, security and justice in the world is:

1) Denying requests for asylum by refugees at the border without due process. This is against both international and US law.

2) Forcibly separating the families of said refuge seekers by take the children away from their parents without explanation of where or when they will be reunited.

3) Deporting the parents of these refuge seekers WITHOUT their children and then dumping the children across the border into the hands of - honest to God I don't know who and ICE isn't saying.

The perfumed princes of the Church have a serious issue with this.

The fact that you don't genuinely troubles me.

20 years from now, assuming this country hasn't tore itself asunder due to the yolk of the cult to personality that grips the Republican party, we will look back on this time and weep in shame.