GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

tall73 · Jun 13, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes the prophetic period was correct. The application of it was not. This was corrected afterwards.

Afterwards was too late. The door was shut based on the message before Oct. 22, 1844. And that message, by your own admission, was wrong. They had to correct it later. But that was too late for the ones who heard the wrong message, and Ellen White says God judged them on that message.

The message, that Jesus was coming to the earth, in 1843, then Spring 1844, then Oct. 22. 1844, were all given before the door was shut. And they were all false.

Jesus did not so come to earth, and so the whole message which involved His coming to earth at that time was wrong.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 13, 2018

tall73 said:
It is completely true. A half false message is a false message.

Yes I agree with this. You posted half a message and put an interpretartion on it that was not true

tall73 said:
The message had two parts....
Jesus coming to earth in 1843 If either part is correct the message is incorrect. Jesus did not come to earth in 1843. Or Spring 1844, or Oct. 22, 1844.

Well that is not true. Please post the the quote you have provided is in reference to the 2nd coming.

tall73 · Jun 13, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes I agree with this. You posted half a message and put an interpretartion on it that was not true

Well that is not true. Please post the the quote you have provided is in reference to the 2nd coming.

You already provided it. The door was shut in 1844. There was no other message given in 1844.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 13, 2018

tall73 said:
You already provided it. The door was shut in 1844. There was no other message given in 1844.

Nope, sorry tall, that is not saying what the quote says at all.

tall73 · Jun 13, 2018

Here is another quote that clearly shows the message. Now we don't want anyone to miss out. So here is the link to the whole chapter: Early Writings : Page 232

I saw that if professed Christians had loved their Saviour's appearing, if they had placed their affections on Him, and had felt that there was none upon the earth to be compared with Him, they would have hailed with joy the first intimation of His coming. But the dislike which they manifested, as they heard of their Lord's coming, was a decided proof that they did not love Him. Satan and his angels triumphed, and cast it in the face of Christ and His holy angels, that His professed people had so little love for Jesus that they heard of their Lord's coming

I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. His hand covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment. The time passed, and those who had looked with joyful expectation for their Saviour were sad and disheartened, while those who had not loved the appearing of Jesus, but embraced the message through fear, were pleased that He did not come at the time of expectation. Their profession had not affected the heart and purified the life. The passing of the time was well calculated to reveal such hearts.

They were the first to turn and ridicule the sorrowful, disappointed ones who really loved the appearing of their Saviour. I saw the wisdom of God in proving His people and giving them a searching test to discover those who would shrink and turn back in the hour of trial.

Jesus and all the heavenly host looked with sympathy and love upon those who had with sweet expectation longed to see Him whom their souls loved. Angels were hovering around them, to sustain them in the hour of their trial. Those who had neglected to receive the heavenly message were left in darkness, and God's anger was kindled against them, because they would not receive the light which He had sent them from heaven.

She clearly indicates the message was regarding Jesus' second coming. And she indicates that those who rejected the message were left in darkness.

That was the message given before Oct. 22, 1844. And it was that which was rejected, rightly so, as it was a time-setting, and false message that Jesus was coming in 1843, then Spring 1844, then Oct. 22, 1844.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2018

tall73 said:
Here is another quote that clearly shows the message. Now we don't want anyone to miss out. So here is the link to the whole chapter: Early Writings : Page 232

She clearly indicates the message was regarding Jesus' second coming. And she indicates that those who rejected the message were left in darkness.

That was the message given before Oct. 22, 1844. And it was that which was rejected, rightly so, as it was a time-setting, and false message that Jesus was coming in 1843, then Spring 1844, then Oct. 22, 1844.

Hello tall,

This is a different quote altogether from the one posted earlier which was in reference to the 1843 chart. The earlier post was talking about the figures in the chart as being correct. This was not an application to the chart being correct about the 2nd coming but only in relation to the prophectic period (figures)

The next quote you have provided above is not a reference to the one you quoted earlier. This is a reference to the First Angels Message but I am wondering if you actually read and understood all the quote you provided here as it is saying much of what was shared with you already earlier; that the prophetic period (time and figures) being correct; the mistake in the application of the 2nd coming; as well as the testing time and the correct understanding and application of the prophetic period when the time was right.

The First Angel's Message

"I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth. Ministers were convinced of the correctness of the positions taken on the prophetic periods, and some renounced their pride, and left their salaries and their churches to go forth from place to place to give the message. But as the message from heaven could find a place in the hearts of but few of the professed ministers of Christ, the work was laid upon many who were not preachers. Some left their fields to sound the message, while others were called from their shops and their merchandise. And even some professional men were compelled to leave their professions to engage in the unpopular work of giving the first angel's message.

Ministers laid aside their sectarian views and feelings and united in proclaiming the coming of Jesus. Wherever the message was given, it moved the people. Sinners repented, wept, and prayed for forgiveness, and those whose lives had been marked with dishonesty were anxious to make restitution. Parents felt the deepest solicitude for their children. Those who received the message labored with their unconverted friends and relatives, and with their souls bowed with the weight of the solemn message, warned and entreated them to prepare for the coming of the Son of man. Those cases were most hardened that would not yield to such a weight of evidence set home by heartfelt warnings. This soul-purifying work led the affections away from worldly things to a consecration never before experienced.

Thousands were led to embrace the truth preached by William Miller, and servants of God were raised up in the spirit and power of Elijah to proclaim the message. Like John, the forerunner of Jesus, those who preached this solemn message felt compelled to lay the ax at the root of the tree, and call upon men to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. Their testimony was calculated to arouse and powerfully affect the churches and manifest their real character. And as the solemn warning to flee from the wrath to come was sounded, many who were united with the churches received the healing message; they saw their backslidings, and with bitter tears of repentance and deep agony of soul, humbled themselves before God. And as the Spirit of God rested upon them, they helped to sound the cry, “Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come.”

The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. “No man knoweth the day nor the hour,” was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer. Neither would be instructed and corrected by those who were pointing to the year when they believed the prophetic periods would run out, and to the signs which showed Christ near, even at the doors. Many shepherds of the flock, who professed to love Jesus, said that they had no opposition to the preaching of Christ's coming, but they objected to the definite time. God's all-seeing eye read their hearts. They did not love Jesus near. They knew that their unchristian lives would not stand the test, for they were not walking in the humble path marked out by Him. These false shepherds stood in the way of the work of God. The truth spoken in its convincing power aroused the people, and like the jailer, they began to inquire, “What must I do to be saved?” But these shepherds stepped in between the truth and the people, and preached smooth things to lead them from the truth. They united with Satan and his angels, crying, “Peace, peace,” when there was no peace. Those who loved their ease and were content with their distance from God would not be aroused from their carnal security. I saw that angels of God marked it all; the garments of those unconsecrated shepherds were covered with the blood of souls.

Ministers who would not accept this saving message themselves hindered those who would have received it. The blood of souls is upon them. Preachers and people joined to oppose this message from heaven and to persecute William Miller and those who united with him in the work. Falsehoods were circulated to injure his influence; and at different times after he had plainly declared the counsel of God, applying cutting truths to the hearts of his hearers, great rage was kindled against him, and as he left the place of meeting, some waylaid him in order to take his life. But angels of God were sent to protect him, and they led him safely away from the angry mob. His work was not yet finished.

The most devoted gladly received the message. They knew that it was from God and that it was delivered at the right time. Angels were watching with the deepest interest the result of the heavenly message, and when the churches turned from and rejected it, they in sadness consulted with Jesus. He turned His face from the churches and bade His angels faithfully watch over the precious ones who did not reject the testimony, for another light was yet to shine upon them.

I saw that if professed Christians had loved their Saviour's appearing, if they had placed their affections on Him, and had felt that there was none upon the earth to be compared with Him, they would have hailed with joy the first intimation of His coming. But the dislike which they manifested, as they heard of their Lord's coming, was a decided proof that they did not love Him. Satan and his angels triumphed, and cast it in the face of Christ and His holy angels, that His professed people had so little love for Jesus that they did not desire His second appearing.

I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. His hand covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment. The time passed, and those who had looked with joyful expectation for their Saviour were sad and disheartened, while those who had not loved the appearing of Jesus, but embraced the message through fear, were pleased that He did not come at the time of expectation. Their profession had not affected the heart and purified the life. The passing of the time was well calculated to reveal such hearts.

They were the first to turn and ridicule the sorrowful, disappointed ones who really loved the appearing of their Saviour. I saw the wisdom of God in proving His people and giving them a searching test to discover those who would shrink and turn back in the hour of trial.

Jesus and all the heavenly host looked with sympathy and love upon those who had with sweet expectation longed to see Him whom their souls loved. Angels were hovering around them, to sustain them in the hour of their trial. Those who had neglected to receive the heavenly message were left in darkness, and God's anger was kindled against them, because they would not receive the light which He had sent them from heaven.

Those faithful, disappointed ones, who could not understand why their Lord did not come, were not left in darkness. Again they were led to their Bibles to search the prophetic periods. The hand of the Lord was removed from the figures, and the mistake was explained. They saw that the prophetic periods reached to 1844, and that the same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844. Light from the Word of God shone upon their position, and they discovered a tarrying time—“Though it [the vision] tarry, wait for it.” In their love for Christ's immediate coming, they had overlooked the tarrying of the vision, which was calculated to manifest the true waiting ones. Again they had a point of time. Yet I saw that many of them could not rise above their severe disappointment to possess that degree of zeal and energy which had marked their faith in 1843.

Satan and his angels triumphed over them, and those who would not receive the message congratulated themselves upon their farseeing judgment and wisdom in not receiving the delusion, as they called it. They did not realize that they were rejecting the counsel of God against themselves, and were working in union with Satan and his angels to perplex God's people, who were living out the heaven-sent message.

The believers in this message were oppressed in the churches. For a time, those who would not receive the message were restrained by fear from acting out the sentiments of their hearts; but the passing of the time revealed their true feelings. They wished to silence the testimony which the waiting ones felt compelled to bear, that the prophetic periods extended to 1844. With clearness the believers explained their mistake and gave the reasons why they expected their Lord in 1844. Their opposers could bring no arguments against the powerful reasons offered. Yet the anger of the churches was kindled; they were determined not to listen to evidence, and to shut the testimony out of the churches, so the others could not hear it. Those who dared not withhold from others the light which God had given them, were shut out of the churches; but Jesus was with them, and they were joyful in the light of His countenance. They were prepared to receive the message of the second angel.

As the churches refused to receive the first angel's message, they rejected the light from heaven and fell from the favor of God. They trusted to their own strength, and by opposing the first message placed themselves where they could not see the light of the second angel's message. But the beloved of God, who were oppressed, accepted the message, “Babylon is fallen,” and left the churches." ....

Now I suggest you read all of this and the rest of this section not added here. Combine this with what was written earlier in post # 45 in relation to the feast of trumpets and the quote you provided earlier.

It is very clear what is being discussed here. Everything is outlined. The prophetic period being correct, the mistake in the application of the 2nd coming as well as the testing time and the correct application of the prophetic period when the time was right.

Sorry tall, it is not

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Now I suggest you read all of this and the rest of this section not added here. Combine this with what was written earlier in post # 45 in relation to the feast of trumpets and the quote you provided earlier.

It is very clear what is being discussed here. Everything is outlined. The prophetic period being correct, the mistake in the application of the 2nd coming as well as the testing time and the correct application of the prophetic period when the time was right.

Oh I have read all of it.

The mistake in the application of the second coming--that is just the point. She said God judged them for rejecting the message--which included the second coming.

And then they realized the mistake of the zero year, and saw it referred to 1844. And they still preached the second coming.

All of it referred to the second coming, and that was what was rejected--the time setting of the false message about Jesus coming in 1843, then 1844.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello tall,

This is a different quote altogether from the one posted earlier which was in reference to the 1843 chart. The earlier post was talking about the figures in the chart as being correct.

Three quotes were given about God's hand hiding the mistake, and two of them occurred in that chapter.

And she said He directed the chart.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

And the next chapter they were still preaching time setting regarding Jesus' coming.

Early Writings : Page 237

Many who professed to be looking for Christ had no part in the work of the message. The glory of God which they had witnessed, the humility and deep devotion of the waiting ones, and the overwhelming weight of evidence, caused them to profess to receive the truth; but they had not been converted; they were not ready for the coming of their Lord.

A spirit of solemn and earnest prayer was everywhere felt by the saints. A holy solemnity was resting upon them. Angels were watching with the deepest interest the effect of the message, and were elevating those who received it, and drawing them from earthly things to obtain large supplies from salvation's fountain. God's people were then accepted of Him. Jesus looked upon them with pleasure, for His image was reflected in them. They had made a full sacrifice, an entire consecration, and expected to be changed to immortality. But they were destined again to be sadly disappointed. The time to which they looked, expecting deliverance, passed; they were still upon the earth, and the effects of the curse never seemed more visible. They had placed their affections on heaven, and in sweet anticipation had tasted immortal deliverance; but their hopes were not realized.

And then after the 7th month movement, the door was shut.
The message was Jesus' coming, along with date setting, all the way through. And that was what Ellen White said God judged people regarding.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2018

tall73 said:
And the next chapter they were still preaching time setting regarding Jesus' coming.

Early Writings : Page 237

Many who professed to be looking for Christ had no part in the work of the message. The glory of God which they had witnessed, the humility and deep devotion of the waiting ones, and the overwhelming weight of evidence, caused them to profess to receive the truth; but they had not been converted; they were not ready for the coming of their Lord.

A spirit of solemn and earnest prayer was everywhere felt by the saints. A holy solemnity was resting upon them. Angels were watching with the deepest interest the effect of the message, and were elevating those who received it, and drawing them from earthly things to obtain large supplies from salvation's fountain. God's people were then accepted of Him. Jesus looked upon them with pleasure, for His image was reflected in them. They had made a full sacrifice, an entire consecration, and expected to be changed to immortality. But they were destined again to be sadly disappointed. The time to which they looked, expecting deliverance, passed; they were still upon the earth, and the effects of the curse never seemed more visible. They had placed their affections on heaven, and in sweet anticipation had tasted immortal deliverance; but their hopes were not realized.

And then after the 7th month movement, the door was shut.
The message was Jesus' coming, along with date setting, all the way through. And that was what Ellen White said God judged people regarding.

I think you are still missing the point here.

1. Everything we are discussing is in relation to the Millerite movement (1833 to 1844)
2. This is NOT the SDA Church.
3. Some of the pioneers came out of the Millerite movement and formed the SDA Church some time latter after a careful evaluation of the scriptures showing the correct application of the 2300 year prophecy of Daniel 8:14.
4. Your application to quotes from EGW have all been answered providing context to the in correct interpretations you have added.
5. No one is arguing that those in the Millerite movement did not make mistakes to the application of the prophetic periods outlined from Daniel 8:14. as to the 2nd coming they did.
6. This incorrect application of the scriptures was corrected before the SDA Church started.
7. The 1843 and 1844 Millerite movement had the correct figures but wrong application of these figures hidden by the hand of God to fulfill the warnings of the Feast of Trumpets (1833 to 1843) prior to the starting anti-typical day of atoment.
8. The SDA movement came after the 1844 dissappointment some time after.

Now you should already know all this so I am not sure what your trying to prove here.

As to the shut door? Now your just repeaint yourself after quotes have already been provided that disagree with your interpretation as to what they are saying and your still repeating yourself.

Let's add the quote again..

The “Shut Door” Defined

"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).
Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7).

............

Now getting back to the OP do you have any scripture to share? It seems you have run out.

Hope this helps

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2018

tall73 said:
Oh I have read all of it. And what did you just say again?

The mistake in the application of the second coming. But that is just the point. She said God judged them for rejecting the message--which included the second coming.

And then they realized the mistake and saw it referred to 1844. And they still preached the second coming.

All of it referred to the second coming, and that was what was rejected--the time setting of the false message about Jesus coming in 1843, then 1844.

Now tall, I think you are missing the point of what was highlighted in the earlier post and what has been presented in past posts. The facts are these;

1. The prophetic period was correct.
2. The mistake in application was hidden by the hand of God.
3. This was to fulfill God's message going to the world in power in fulfillment of the feast of trumpets. (see post # 45 in relation to earlier quotes and the feast of trumpets)
4. After the appointed time the error in date and application was revealed as applying to the day of atonement and the heavenly Sanctuary

God's Providence in the 1843 Prophetic Chart

In 1850 Ellen White wrote that she "had seen that the 1843 [prophetic] chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed."

One could wonder why God would want to hide a mistake that the prophetic period was in reference to the 2nd coming. What do you think would have happened if the correct application was applied to this message in the first place? Do you think that this would have been a world wide message that the warning of the Feast of Trumpets was to fulfill?

God's ways are often cast in human language where circumstances that God permits are described as events that God causes. When the author of Exodus wrote of God's conversation with Moses, he portrayed God as the Agent who "hardened" Pharaoh's heart (Ex. 10:1). However, the same writer also wrote of Pharaoh's responsibility for hardening his own heart (Ex. 8:15, 32; 9:34).

We think of Biblical circumstances where knowledge was "withheld" from dedicated men and women. On the road to Emmaus, Jesus joined two devastated disciples but they did not recognize Him because "their eyes were restrained" (Luke 24:16). A few hours later, while eating with their traveling Companion, "their eyes were opened and they knew Him" (Luke 24:31). If their eyes had been "opened" prematurely while walking toward Emmaus, they would have missed a great experience that God wanted them to share.

For reasons that God alone can explain best, Bible students in 1843 needed the experience of 1843-1844. Obviously God could have "stepped in" and guaranteed every date, every line of reasoning, when the 1843 chart was prepared. But that kind of divine intervention has been rare throughout history. Permitting men and women to work through their problems, learning special lessons that would not have been experienced otherwise, seems to have been God's general plan according to scripture would you not agree?

What would have happened if William Miller had preached the true significance of 1844? What kind of public response would he have received if he had proclaimed the truth about a change in Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary instead of emphasizing His imminent return? No one would have listened to him; no one would have been stirred to read the Bible.

After the disappointment of October 22, a group of his followers restudied their Bibles to discover the real meaning of 1844, an interest that never would have developed if Miller had not focused their attention on the Bible and its prophecies prior to 1844.

...............

Let's look at it some more if you like

“I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.”—Early Writings, p. 74.

Mrs. White is here referring to the error in calculation on the principal prophetic chart used by the Millerites in the early 1840's, that led them to calculate that the 2300-day prophecy of Daniel 8:13, 14, would end in the year 1843, Jewish spring-to-spring reckoning,* whereas the correct reckoning was October 22, 1844.

When the two disciples walked the road to Emmaus the Sunday afternoon of the resurrection, Christ joined them. “But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.” Luke 24:16. Thus they walked and talked, thinking that they were conversing with “a stranger in Jerusalem.” No accent of voice betrayed Him, no mannerism apparently gave a clue to His identity. Finally, as He sat at meat with them in their home at the end of the journey, and blessed the bread, “their eyes were opened, and they knew him.” Verse 31.

The simple meaning of these two passages from Luke's Gospel is that Christ did not permit them, at first, to recognize Him, or, to borrow the language of Mrs. White, His “hand was over and hid” from them the truth that the “stranger” was none other than Christ. The phrase, “their eyes were holden,” means that in some supernatural way Christ concealed from them for a time the truth as to who their fellow traveler was.

Whether that concealment is explained by His appearing in “another form” (see Mark 16:12) or simply by His temporarily preventing their eyes and ears from functioning with normal acuteness, we have no way of knowing. Nor is it important in this connection that we attempt to know. We are concerned only with the fact that “their eyes were holden” for a time.

Could anything be conceived of as more important than that His own disciples should know their Lord? Yet for a time He concealed that fact from them. This scripture has relavenace when considering the the quote from EGW in relation to God hiding for a time the application of the 1843-1844 message presented by William miller and the true application to the day of atonement and Christs work in the Heavenly Sanctuary. God's providence guided the way for his message of warning (Feast of Trumpets) to go to all the World before the final phase as represented in the day of atonement.

God allows testing times for his people.

The Lord allowed Abraham to travel the long journey to the mountaintop, even to going through the agonizing task of binding his only son on the altar. Then, and not till then, did the Lord stay Abraham's hand and disclose to him that he was not to offer his son, but to offer a ram instead. No lover of the Bible sees in this strange drama, which owes its suspense and climax to God's concealment of His plan, any reason for questioning His ways.

Then why question the EGW statement, when it suggests nothing more of concealment, of hiding for a time the truth of a matter, than the Biblical incidents here presented?

It seems you have not read these statement or understood them. You are only reading them to justify your position. This is sad, maybe you should pray about it.

Now, did you have any scripture to share?

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
I think you are still missing the point here.

1. Everything we are discussing is in relation to the Millerite movement (1833 to 1844)

Exactly! Now you have it.

2. This is NOT the SDA Church.
3. Some of the pioneers came out of the Millerite movement and formed the SDA Church some time latter after a careful evaluation of the scriptures showing the correct application of the 2300 year prophecy of Daniel 8:14.

No, this is not the SDA church. However, Ellen White, considered an inspired author for SDA's even today, is years after the fact of the Millerite movement saying that God judged people on their response to the message given by the Millerite movement.

That message was completely false. Jesus did not return to earth in 1843 or 1844.

Therefore she is claiming that people were tested by a false, date-setting message that they were right to reject on the words of Jesus and Paul, and that they were proved right by its failure to come to pass.

She called this false message "the truth", "heavenly", "from heaven", etc. It was a false, date-setting message of Jesus coming in 1843, then 44 which did not come to pass. It was not truth. It was not heavenly.

What does Ellen White say about another date setter?

Many who have called themselves Adventists have been time setters. Time after time has been set for Christ to come, but repeated failures have been the result. The definite time of our Lord's coming is declared to be beyond the ken of mortals. Even the angels who minister unto those who shall be heirs of salvation know not the day nor the hour. "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Because the times repeatedly set have passed, the world is in a more decided state of unbelief than before in regard to the near advent of Christ. They look upon the failures of the time setters with disgust; and because men have been so deceived, they turn from the truth substantiated by the word of God that the end of all things is at hand. {4T 307.1}
Those who so presumptuously preach definite time, in so doing gratify the adversary of souls; for they are advancing infidelity rather than Christianity. They produce Scripture and by false interpretation show a chain of argument which apparently proves their position. But their failures show that they are false prophets, that they do not rightly interpret the language of inspiration. The word of God is truth and verity, but men have perverted its meaning. These errors have brought the truth of God for these days into disrepute.
Testimonies vol 4, pg 307

This all applied equally to the Millerites. And the preachers of the day warned them in the same way, and they ignored it.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
5. No one is arguing that those in the Millerite movement did not make mistakes to the application of the prophetic periods outlined from Daniel 8:14. as to the 2nd coming they did.

And Ellen White judged those who rightly rejected that false message.

6. This incorrect application of the scriptures was corrected before the SDA Church started.

And they made the false message the linchpin of their doctrine, by saying this lying message, with date setting that went directly against the word of God, was a fulfillment of prophecy!

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
The 1843 and 1844 Millerite movement had the correct figures but wrong application of these figures hidden by the hand of God to fulfill the warnings of the Feast of Trumpets (1833 to 1843) prior to the starting anti-typical day of atoment.

So you have a false date setting message as your feast of trumpets, based on God's intentional deception of a group to announce it early.

This doesn't sound at all unusual to you? It doesn't sound at all unusual that to accept this message people would have to disbelieve God's word about the day and hour, coming at a time you think not, even the angels in heaven not knowing, and about times and dates I need not write to you? To receive the first and second angel's messages you have to believe an anti-biblical lie that didn't come to pass?

And anyone who actually quoted Jesus' and Paul's words about these things as a reason not to accept them--and rightly so--they were rejected by God?

We have the documents showing the ministers calling this to their attention. We have Ellen White acknowledging it too, but excusing it saying they were not settling on a particular day. But then they did! Oct.22, 1844 was eventually their day. And they ignored the rest of it about angels not knowing, and an hour you think not, and about dates and times we need not write to you.

This is frankly ludicrous that you see God accepting those who reject His Son's words, and rejecting those who actually applied His Son's words. And then you say it was God's intention to ignore the words of His Son, and test them on this unbiblical message.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
As to the shut door? Now your just repeaint yourself after quotes have already been provided that disagree with your interpretation as to what they are saying and your still repeating yourself.

Let's add the quote again..

The “Shut Door” Defined

"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

“My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, “Your house is left unto you desolate” (Matthew 23:38).
Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

“These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” (Revelation 3:7).

Since you have now admitted all of her comments were regarding the Millerite movement, we need not discuss the shut door. That was the point I was making. All of her comments were regarding the time before Oct. 22, 1844.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Now, did you have any scripture to share?

Yes:

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Deuteronomy 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Now tall, I think you are missing the point of what was highlighted in the earlier post and what has been presented in past posts. The facts are these;

1. The prophetic period was correct.
2. The mistake in application was hidden by the hand of God.
3. This was to fulfill God's message going to the world in power in fulfillment of the feast of trumpets. (see post # 45 in relation to earlier quotes and the feast of trumpets)
4. After the appointed time the error in date and application was revealed as applying to the day of atonement and the heavenly Sanctuary

No, I get it full well. They think God judged people for going by His word, and God accepted people who rejected His word and believed a demonstrably false prophecy.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
God's Providence in the 1843 Prophetic Chart

In 1850 Ellen White wrote that she "had seen that the 1843 [prophetic] chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed."

One could wonder why God would want to hide a mistake that the prophetic period was in reference to the 2nd coming. What do you think would have happened if the correct application was applied to this message in the first place? Do you think that this would have been a world wide message that the warning of the Feast of Trumpets was to fulfill?

Because God cannot actually make His word go forward?

And God is better served by accepting those who reject His Son's words about date setting, and rejecting those who actually correctly applied His words?

God's ways are often cast in human language where circumstances that God permits are described as events that God causes. When the author of Exodus wrote of God's conversation with Moses, he portrayed God as the Agent who "hardened" Pharaoh's heart (Ex. 10:1). However, the same writer also wrote of Pharaoh's responsibility for hardening his own heart (Ex. 8:15, 32; 9:34).

The Millerite movement is not the same as saying that God caused what God allows. She specifically says God intended to test them, intended the disappointment, etc.

And she is saying that God judged people for rejecting this message, even though they did so by following His Word. That is not the same as simply saying that men were mistaken, and God worked with it. That is saying that God judged people based on a false message that contradicted His Son.

We think of Biblical circumstances where knowledge was "withheld" from dedicated men and women. On the road to Emmaus, Jesus joined two devastated disciples but they did not recognize Him because "their eyes were restrained" (Luke 24:16). A few hours later, while eating with their traveling Companion, "their eyes were opened and they knew Him" (Luke 24:31). If their eyes had been "opened" prematurely while walking toward Emmaus, they would have missed a great experience that God wanted them to share.

And this too is nothing like giving them a false message to deceive 100,000 people, and condemn them for rejecting the time-setting message that goes against Jesus' and Paul's words.

For reasons that God alone can explain best, Bible students in 1843 needed the experience of 1843-1844. Obviously God could have "stepped in" and guaranteed every date, every line of reasoning, when the 1843 chart was prepared. But that kind of divine intervention has been rare throughout history. Permitting men and women to work through their problems, learning special lessons that would not have been experienced otherwise, seems to have been God's general plan according to scripture would you not agree?

You forgot, the part where God condemns all of those who actually follow His word, and accepts those who reject it.

What would have happened if William Miller had preached the true significance of 1844? What kind of public response would he have received if he had proclaimed the truth about a change in Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary instead of emphasizing His imminent return? No one would have listened to him; no one would have been stirred to read the Bible.

I see, so God's word does return to him void?

No,

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

After the disappointment of October 22, a group of his followers restudied their Bibles to discover the real meaning of 1844, an interest that never would have developed if Miller had not focused their attention on the Bible and its prophecies prior to 1844.

After Oct. 22 1844 Ellen White still condemned those who actually followed God and rejected Miller's false date-setting message.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Let's look at it some more if you like

“I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.”—Early Writings, p. 74.

Mrs. White is here referring to the error in calculation on the principal prophetic chart used by the Millerites in the early 1840's, that led them to calculate that the 2300-day prophecy of Daniel 8:13, 14, would end in the year 1843, Jewish spring-to-spring reckoning,* whereas the correct reckoning was October 22, 1844.

As He wanted them, designed, directed, it is pretty clear.

God allows testing times for his people.

The Lord allowed Abraham to travel the long journey to the mountaintop, even to going through the agonizing task of binding his only son on the altar. Then, and not till then, did the Lord stay Abraham's hand and disclose to him that he was not to offer his son, but to offer a ram instead. No lover of the Bible sees in this strange drama, which owes its suspense and climax to God's concealment of His plan, any reason for questioning His ways.

No, there is no reason to question His ways. He told Him to do something, Abraham went to do it, then He told Him not to do it.

It seems you have not read these statement or understood them. You are only reading them to justify your position. This is sad, maybe you should pray about it.

Now, did you have any scripture to share?

No, I have read the statements. And I have read the document from the Ellen White Estate that you are pasting into your post here:

Chapt 23 - Did God Deceive the Advent Movement in 1843?

It does not address the problem. Ellen White does not just indicate they muddled through and got it right eventually, then preached the right message.

She indicates that God judged those who rightly rejected the false, date-setting message because of God's word.

tall73 · Jun 14, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Do you think that this would have been a world wide message that the warning of the Feast of Trumpets was to fulfill?

It was not world-wide in the sense of reaching all the world's population.

The scope from what I have seen was limited to:

America, England, Australia, Tasmania, a few reports of literature reaching Norway and Chile. If there was other literature that went similarly to other countries, it was very limited in reach.

And it was far more prominent in America than anywhere else.

But regardless of scope, the larger issue is that it was a false, date-setting message.

GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

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