Whale Fossils Discovered High Up In Andes Mountains

Colter

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No. All people come from ancient Mesopotamia and from there migrated to other lands. The story of the Flood traveled with them. Think about it. the most ancient accounts antedate the North American accounts. Yet its the same story told with minor changes to the details and in different languages.
Now I've studies his for years and for me this is easy to grasp. But I do understand that when someone is new to this discussion that the issue seems very complex. But its true. All the Flood accounts are historically reliable in the sense that they all confirm over and over against that such a great Flood did indeed happen. The question of which is the true account between the Babylonian and Biblical accounts is what most people are asking about. Valid question. The original account is the one where the details pass scientific examination. There have been numerous tests done with smaller models of the ark in wave tanks which prove that the dimensions of the ark in the Bible were perfect to accomplish the task it was built to do. Nobody had that good of ship building technology in either the Antediluvian period or the Post-diluvian period. Yet the dimensions of the ark are amazingly constructed to handle the waves and to circular air throughout the ark. The Babylonian ark, with its dimensions of 120x120x120 cubits, would not either float or circulate air. Nine decks high and this giant cube would have been emerged approximately 60 cubits under water. With that much under water, air circulation is questionable. Water pressure would rip open the seams and this large cube would sink. So its clear to me that the details in the Biblical account hold water, where as the Babylonian account does not. Yet both tell a true historical account of an event that would be never forgotten.

Native Americans and their flood stories have been in North and South America far longer than the YEC narrative timeline created by the Israelites.

The evolution of life can be observed in the sedimentary layers as well as mud encasement spanning hundreds of millions of years.

Not only has God never regretted his efforts as the Israelites claim, but drowning the earth didn't even work! Mankind is the same today as it has always been.


The story of the ark is impossible! Were it not in the Jews story of origins, and found recently in a cave, then healthy minded people would dismiss it out of hand.

ark-compared-to-other-ships.jpg
 
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OzSpen

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The chronology of the Bible is debated. But most scholars agree that the chronology from creation till now is between 6000-to-10000 years old.

I presume you mean 'most scholars' of the YEC kind.

'Most scholars' do not include these eminent evangelical scholars who were/are old earth creationists:
  • Gleason Archer;
  • Norman Geisler;
  • Walter Kaiser;
  • Charles Hodge;
  • James Montgomery Boice;
  • C S Lewis;
  • Hugh Ross;
  • John Lennox;
  • William Lane Craig;
  • Francis Schaeffer
  • etc, etc.
I recommend these articles:
Oz
 
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Job 33:6

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You don't get it. Whales don't become fossils at death! Nothing that dies becomes a fossil. The conditions for fossilization that would cause whale fossils to be discovered in the Andes would be the rapid burial caused by the Flood. The video below is scientific proof whale carcasses and their bone are eaten until they are gone. No fossil.



The whales discovered in the Andes were caught up in the sediments of the raging Flood which trapped whales trying to stay near the surface of the water.

A YouTube video isn't sufficient in overturning our understanding of fossilization.

You don't get it. Whales don't become fossils at death! Nothing that dies becomes a fossil. The conditions for fossilization that would cause whale fossils to be discovered in the Andes would be the rapid burial caused by the Flood. The video below is scientific proof whale carcasses and their bone are eaten until they are gone. No fossil.



The whales discovered in the Andes were caught up in the sediments of the raging Flood which trapped whales trying to stay near the surface of the water.


Here, this video seems to be adequate for your level of education.
 
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The Barbarian

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ou don't get it. Whales don't become fossils at death!

Like humans, not very often. But of course, it does happen.

Nothing that dies becomes a fossil.

And yet we have all those fossil whales.

The conditions for fossilization that would cause whale fossils to be discovered in the Andes would be the rapid burial caused by the Flood.

I know you want to believe it, but the evidence clearly shows that there have always been fossils formed. As you learned, the eastern Andes are made of marine fossils.

The video below...

Can't explain the many whale fossils found in all sorts of environments. But science can:

Scientists have uncloaked the mystery of an ancient fossilized graveyard of dozens of whales lying side by side with bizarre, walrus-faced dolphins and swimming sloths.

The fossils, unearthed about three years ago during a road-widening project in Chile’s Atacama Desert, probably record a series of mass strandings about 6 million to 9 million years ago that were caused by blooms of algae fed by the iron-rich sediments of the Andes Mountains, according to a study published online Wednesday in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

The international team of researchers believes about four waves of carcasses washed into what once was a placid tidal basin within a period of weeks, then were buried in sediments that accumulated over 10,000 to 16,000 years, said the study’s lead author, Nicholas D. Pyenson, curator of fossil marine mammals at the Smithsonian Institution.
Scientists solve mystery of mass whale graveyard in Chile


No point in denying the facts.
 
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twin.spin

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twin.spin,

I agree that the Scriptures are always true because God is a God of truth.

But I also agree that human interpreters are fallible and not always correct.

Please direct me to Scriptures that support the view - or state- that the earth is 6,000 years old.

Oz
I'm glad we have this in common: "Scriptures are always true because God is a God of truth."

It is with that in mind I will have to redirect you to what I wrote earlier: A careful reading of Scripture teaches that when God created everything … that also included a fully mature world, so objects \ people \ animals \ plants had age at the very beginning of time.
 
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Isaiah60

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Native Americans and their flood stories have been in North and South America far longer than the YEC narrative timeline created by the Israelites.

I have a friend who is a Cherokee and held in high esteem on the Reservation. I've known him well for many years. He along with other Indians who are educated in their legends laugh at how evolutionists date their existence in America back 10,000 years or more. The Indians have not been in America that long! Now can talk to liberal Indians who have no real knowledge of their existence or those younger Chefs who have also become liberal and learn nothing. But the real old chefs is where my friend learned about his ancestry and the real old Chefs do not agree with evolutionists about anything. Figures that these white evolutionists would not only take their lands but also retell their legends.

The evolution of life can be observed in the sedimentary layers as well as mud encasement spanning hundreds of millions of years.

You sure about that? You don't get sedimentary layers from a global firestorm!! There are fossils from this alleged Cretaceous period, right? How is it those fossils are found in sedimentary rock? Firestorms do not do that. The asteroid that hit the earth would have wiped out all life on earth, leaving no trace behind. This asteroid would have also left no water left on land or in the sky to leave sedimentary rock. The asteroid theory should be an utter embarrassment to evolutionists and they are embarrassed by it which is why they are now changing the theory to fit the Flood. Because evolutionists know that its the erosive force of water that leaves behind a fossils record buried in the sedimentary rock! Wise up.

Not only has God never regretted his efforts as the Israelites claim, but drowning the earth didn't even work! Mankind is the same today as it has always been.

What? Is this not supposed to be a Christian only section? Maybe I'm wrong. But you cannot say that statement unless you've never read Genesis. That simple.

The story of the ark is impossible! Were it not in the Jews story of origins, and found recently in a cave, then healthy minded people would dismiss it out of hand.

What? I think you better read before joining a forum. The Genesis account is not a new discovery found in some cave. Wow. I think you just sank you debate here and its time to stay offline for a while and learn the basics first.
 
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Isaiah60

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I presume you mean 'most scholars' of the YEC kind.

'Most scholars' do not include these eminent evangelical scholars who were/are old earth creationists:
  • Gleason Archer;
  • Norman Geisler;
  • Walter Kaiser;
  • Charles Hodge;
  • James Montgomery Boice;
  • C S Lewis;
  • Hugh Ross;
  • John Lennox;
  • William Lane Craig;
  • Francis Schaeffer
  • etc, etc.
I recommend these articles:
Oz
Good for them. Christianity is not Islam as we don't worship our scholars as they do in Islam. None of the Scholars you mentioned are reputable creationists. They are theologians but do not specialize in creation science. Huge Ross is known as the joke of modern theology as his attempts to refute YEC have become an embarrassment to the OEC view....a view that doesn't make any sense.
 
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Isaiah60

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Like humans, not very often. But of course, it does happen.

It does not just happen! Wow, unbelievable. When creatures die they decay. They do not become fossils. The physical process of fossilization is very rare and only happens underr certain conditions. A global Flood is the perfect storm to create textbook conditions for fossilization.



And yet we have all those fossil whales.

We have whale fossils because of water and not some global firestorm! The Flood is why you see a mass fossil record! I explained how the whales were caught up in the sediments already, why do I have to rewrite the same sentences and paragraphs over and over again? Perhaps I should go back a few pages and copy-paste my past replies on new posts? Nobody is denying we have fossils. But you evolutionists are making the clam that whale bones become fossils all the time and all it takes for a whale to become a fossil is to die and there it s fossil. This is not true. The video below is irrefutable proof that dead whale falls in water leave no bones behind. And this ridiculous theory of uplifts placing them there begs the question.


Still think uplifts put them there?

I know you want to believe it, but the evidence clearly shows that there have always been fossils formed. As you learned, the eastern Andes are made of marine fossils.

Once again, nobody is denying the fossil record! But it was not uplifts that placed those whales in the Andes. Again, learn a lesson from real science. Whale bones are eaten up until gone.


No bones, no uplift fossil excuse.


Can't explain the many whale fossils found in all sorts of environments. But science can:

This is how people become communists and lose everything they worked hard for. You place far too much trust in these bias atheist scientists who will deny any and all evidence for creationism if it further advances communism. You want to worship fallible man with no moral disciple that goes beyond his own opinion. You evidence is rejected. No opinion is acceptable.

Scientists have uncloaked the mystery of an ancient fossilized graveyard of dozens of whales lying side by side with bizarre, walrus-faced dolphins and swimming sloths.

Scientists scientists scientists. I think you mean to say evolutionists. They are not scientists. Darwin was not a scientist and he was their prophet (false prophet for all that).

The fossils, unearthed about three years ago during a road-widening project in Chile’s Atacama Desert, probably record a series of mass strandings about 6 million to 9 million years ago that were caused by blooms of algae fed by the iron-rich sediments of the Andes Mountains, according to a study published online Wednesday in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

The international team of researchers believes about four waves of carcasses washed into what once was a placid tidal basin within a period of weeks, then were buried in sediments that accumulated over 10,000 to 16,000 years, said the study’s lead author, Nicholas D. Pyenson, curator of fossil marine mammals at the Smithsonian Institution.
Scientists solve mystery of mass whale graveyard in Chile
No point in denying the facts.

Not denying facts but conjecture. There is a difference.

Firestorms do not produce a mass fossil record in sedimentary rock. The best the asteroid would have done is capture the shadow images of dinosaurs on rock and this if the firestorm allowed for the shadow images caused by the initial impact to remain. So what evolutionist geologist should be looking for is shadow images from the initial impact. Then they can come up with a theory. But the K-T event is a horrible theory which doesn't account for the survival of things like feathered birds and water (both on earth and in the sky). Whales discovered in the Andes are proof of the Flood waters that rapidly buried those whales in the sediments leaving behind a fossil record of that Flood in sedimentary rock which was formed by the erosive force of water...not firestorms or geological uplifts.

The video below is what would happen if a large asteroid like the one that supposedly hit the earth 65-m.y.a. would do to us today. All videos on this subject--those originally featured on the Science Channel and Discovery Channel--show a firestorm that covers the earth. Not all videos are exactly identical in overall scope but they all show the firestorm (or ejector cloud) cover the earth. Nothing would have lived. Yet we have whales, feathered birds and water still on earth today. In fact, we have lots of water on earth. The large ocean basins are caused by eroding landmass and overtaken by water.

But take a good look at what a large asteroid would do to us today. What is going to live? This is the same view that evolutionist claim killed the dinosaurs and yet we have feathered birds today. I simply do not know how feathered birds could have lived through an asteroid half the size of that which is alleged to have hit 65-m.y.a. All it would take is one large asteroid 6 miles in diameter to completely wipe us out.

 
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The Barbarian

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It does not just happen! Wow, unbelievable. When creatures die they decay.

Usually. As you learned, fossilization is relatively rare for vertebrates. But it does happen. But as whales sink into the sediment, some of them are buried before the bones decay.

And there are fossils of whales with holes in the bones, where worms burrowed into them to get to the marrow, leaving the rest. So it's not a sudden thing.

We have whale fossils because of water

Ya think? What did you think happens to whales when they die?

But you evolutionists are making the clam that whale bones become fossils all the time and all it takes for a whale to become a fossil is to die and there it s fossil.

Right. From time to time, we happen to find one in the process. No surprise there.

Still think uplifts put them there?

As you learned, much of the Andes mountains are made of marine fossils. So yes. The rocks were indeed lifted there.

This is how people become communists and lose everything they worked hard for.

If you were less obsessed with your Marxist ideology, you'd probably be doing better here.

Firestorms do not produce a mass fossil record in sedimentary rock.

As you learned, the Chicxulub event did not cause a worldwide firestorm.

The video below is what would happen if a large asteroid like the one that supposedly hit the earth 65-m.y.a. would do to us today.

No. The video features a 500km asteroid, not the 12-15 km Chicxulub object.
 
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OzSpen

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It is with that in mind I will have to redirect you to what I wrote earlier: A careful reading of Scripture teaches that when God created everything … that also included a fully mature world, so objects \ people \ animals \ plants had age at the very beginning of time.

That is one view and it's your view.
 
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OzSpen

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Good for them. Christianity is not Islam as we don't worship our scholars as they do in Islam. None of the Scholars you mentioned are reputable creationists. They are theologians but do not specialize in creation science. Huge Ross is known as the joke of modern theology as his attempts to refute YEC have become an embarrassment to the OEC view....a view that doesn't make any sense.

It was you who stated: 'But most scholars agree that the chronology from creation till now is between 6000-to-10000 years old'.

You introduced 'most scholars'. I'm pursuing what you started.

Come on, mate! This is a laugh:

None of the Scholars you mentioned are reputable creationists. They are theologians but do not specialize in creation science. Huge Ross is known as the joke of modern theology as his attempts to refute YEC

Creationists also need to be people who can exegete both Hebrew and Greek texts. PhD scientists are not the only ones who are eligible to make assessments on creationist data.

They are fully reputable creationists.

Your perspective is an example of special pleading.

I know of Hugh Ross but not Huge Ross. You gave not one bit of evidence to support your claims against Ross, so it was a red herring.

Would you please quit using logical fallacies so we can have a rational discussion? I'm not hopeful.

Oz

 
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Isaiah60

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Funny how a typo is your only defense for whale fossils in the Andes. But when you lose the debate all that is left is to focus on typos.

So we now have confirmed through science that whale falls don't become fossil. That leaves the Flood of Noah as the best explanation.
 
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Isaiah60

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Usually. As you learned, fossilization is relatively rare for vertebrates. But it does happen. But as whales sink into the sediment, some of them are buried before the bones decay.

No. We've already been through this. What is there to bury the whale? How is the whale gonna be buried in the sediment on the ocean floor? There are many scavengers that will keep on feasting until the whale and its bones are gone. Now during the Flood there would have been some whales who were caught up above the mountains and thrust against rock and buried in the sediments. That is a realistic scenario. And since whales would have stayed near the surface during the Flood its not hard to see how some whales became victims of the Flood. And, obviously, many whales survived. But most of the fossil record is marine life. We find the same scenario with other forms of marine that were either floating among the debris or being caught up on the mountain tops. This is how and why we see all kinds of marine life found at the peaks of mountains. It was the Flood of Noah. All these other excuses are just that...excuses.

And there are fossils of whales with holes in the bones, where worms burrowed into them to get to the marrow, leaving the rest. So it's not a sudden thing.

That finding was not whales discovered up in the Andes but another case of whale remains found off the California coast on the ocean floor. So there was a time when landmass collapsed and because ocean basins which would have further buried more carcasses even after the Flood.


Job 14:18-19 New International Version (NIV 1984)
18 “But as a mountain erodes and crumbles
and as a rock is moved from its place,
19 as water wears away stones
and torrents wash away the soil
so you destroy man's hope.

Here Job is witnessing the aftermath of the Flood which was still ongoing in his day. So whales that died in the Flood and did not get immediately buried in the sediments (as not all life that died during the Flood became fossilized--some bodies were feasted on by other creatures), later had their bones buried when landmass collapsed and created large ocean basins. The Flood changed the entire geological structure of the earth. There used to be more landmass before the Flood.



As you learned, much of the Andes mountains are made of marine fossils. So yes. The rocks were indeed lifted there.

Uplifts did not place fossils on the Andes. There is no evidence that the mountain ranges have never been mountain ranges which were above sea level. So this uplift excuse is just that...an excuse. Its an excuse designed to avoid the real answer. This excuse assumes whales naturally become fossils at death which is not true. It also assumes the Andes mountains were beneath sea level which is an assumption made with no ancient witnesses. So if evolution were to be history, it has to have historical support. It has none. Its all the vague imaginations of men who hate God and want to turn their nation into a communist country. With that said, evolution theory is thoroughly discredited in one word: Europe! One look at Europe today is proof humans cannot believe in evolution with killing themselves off. Obviously it is not natural to live apart from God. Europe was doing fine until they abandoned God.


If you were less obsessed with your Marxist ideology, you'd probably be doing better here.

I'm a far cry from being a Marxist. I voted for Trump and no Marxist would have voted for Trump since he embodies everything Marxist-communism opposes. I provided proof for the Flood and you've given me geological uplift tales which have no basis in rational science or history. Its an excuse based on political reasoning.



As you learned, the Chicxulub event did not cause a worldwide firestorm.
No. The video features a 500km asteroid, not the 12-15 km Chicxulub object.

All documentaries show a firestorm (or ejector cloud) covering the earth. I have never seen one video where the firestorm did not cover the earth. An asteroid large enough to destroy all life is gonna have the same effect as a larger asteroid. And if the firestorm was localized, which is what I'm getting from you, then dinosaurs in different parts of the world should be doing just fine. But mass dino graveyards are found in more places than just North America. What we have is a mass fossil extinction record of life. This mass extinction was global and not localized. The Flood was not local and the asteroid theory is not local. So if you stick with the localized firestorm you do not have an explanation how dinosaurs, of the same Cretaceous period, also joined the fossil record?

I've watched I think every video ever produced by evolutionists about the K-T event and all of them show a firestorm go around the earth. This is also combined with burning acid rain which was molted rock that had been flung up into the atmosphere and came back down on the earth. Then there is the noxious cloud and the nuclear winter that follows. Nothing could have survived! Nothing.
In reality, water would not be seen on the earth. There would be no clouds, or oceans or any water. Yet we see vast oceans today which are better explained by the Flood.

And as I said like twice before: Evolutionists today have changed their theory some to make room for a near global Flood. They are doing this because they know they cannot explain the fossil record without water and lots of it. All you have to do is watch the newer programs and see how evolutionists now incorporate a near global Flood. So you are not updated in current developments of this theory.
 
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Queller

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Critics that have problems with a global flood often point out there isn't enough water on the planet to cover the mountain tops. But what if volcanism, plate tectonics ,and mountain uplift were all happening at the same time the flood waters were prevailing and then receding? Underwater trenches like Mariana (36201 ft deep) opening up and glacier / ice pole formations would also explain the apparent deficiency in water. (Mariana is deep enough to fit Mt Everest) During the flood account the land was under water for about 10 months before the tops of the mountains shown. Maybe the mountains grew and grew underwater during those 10 months due to accelerated land formation. Combine the global flood with plate tectonics and rapid uplift would also explain marine fossils present on mountain summits, since fossils don't form so easily without rapid sedimentation, which is a characteristic of flooding.
The problem with this idea is that it proposes a tremendous rate of uplift orders of magnitude greater than any we measure today. Some questions come to mind:

1. What stopped this fast uplift?
2. When did it stop?
3. What happened to the incredible amount of energy this rapid uplift created? Keep in mind that the 9.5 magnitude earthquake in Chile in 1960 caused a tsunami that killed 139 people in Japan.

The energy released in the kind of uplift you're talking about makes that quake look like someone scuffing their foot in the sand.
 
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You say you're not an atheist but have just defined science through the lens of atheism. You should do some history research and find out who those founding fathers of modern science were and where their dedication to the Lord took civilization. Atheists have only brought modern civilization down to her knees, now making her submissive to Islam and anarchy. Such a shame.
When Sir Isaac Newton developed his theory about gravity, it didn't include the claim that "God pushes everything down".
 
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I do not understand your spirit of speech here. This is just strange fire to me. Here is the entire chapter of Matt.24. It is not a parable...its end time prophecy! And even if it was a parable (which it is not) it does not detract from the historical significance of the Flood. Nobody rejected the Flood until the Darwinian synthesis. Even pagans knew the Flood happened. But since Darwin led an antichrist endeavor, pagans jumped on board with it. But the Flood was accepted by all before Darwin.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24 - Modern English Version

And also read this passage,

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3:1-7 - Modern English Version
What is your opinion of Matthew 4:8? Is the mountain literal or figurative? Why?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Its interesting that not only have marine fossils been discovered at the peaks of all mountains in the world, but also how large whale fossils been discovered high up in the Andes mountains.

This subject is twofold because first there is the major problem of explaining fossilization without a cause if one wants to go with the poor uplift excuse. Then, perhaps, the other problem is explaining why a whale didn't move during an uplift and got stuck during the rising up of the uplift and then became a fossil?

So atheists, have at it.

1) Seriously?

2) Atheists can't post here. This is Christians only.

Answer: Whales died. Whale bones became fossils on bottom of the sea. Sea bed then pushed up as continental plates collide over millions of years.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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In that case the Flood is not up for debate.

Its historicity is completely open up for debate. There is nothing in the Christian religion that says we have to believe the flood story in Genesis is literally-historically true. Nothing. That is not a tenet of the Christian religion, and never has been. Biblicism is not a tenet of the Christian religion.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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