If we are in the End Times...

Erik Nelson · Jun 12, 2018

Doesn't the term "End Times" refer to the period after the Millennium, and before the Final Judgement before the Great White Throne (Revelation 20:7-9) ?

keras · Jun 12, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Doesn't the term "End Times" refer to the period after the Millennium, and before the Final Judgement before the Great White Throne (Revelation 20:7-9) ?

No, it refers to the few years before Jesus comes down from heaven for His Millennium reign. These years are well prophesied throughout the Bible, but esp in Revelation.
They will commence with the world changer of the Sixth Seal.

Erik Nelson · Jun 12, 2018

keras said:
No, it refers to the few years before Jesus comes down from heaven for His Millennium reign. These years are well prophesied throughout the Bible, but esp in Revelation.
They will commence with the world changer of the Sixth Seal.

Well, I just want to know the best term to use.

Did think that the usual term prior to the Millennium has been "last days" (James 5:3, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Timothy 3:1) or similarly "end of days" (modern Judaism, according to Wikipedia).

What term would you apply post-Millennium to Revelation 20:7-9?

keras · Jun 12, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Well, I just want to know the best term to use.

The last few years of the Christian era, describes it best.
'last days, or end of days', must be deduced from the context. it could be this era or the Millennium 1000 year period.

Erik Nelson said:
What term would you apply post-Millennium to Revelation 20:7-9?

Eternity.

Douggg · Jun 12, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Doesn't the term "End Times" refer to the period after the Millennium, and before the Final Judgement before the Great White Throne (Revelation 20:7-9) ?

The term end times refers to the general timeframe leading up to Jesus's Return, His Second Coming.

The end times started, imo, when Israel became a nation again in 1948. We have been living in the end times since then.

As you noted the Jews use a little different term end of days, which is used by them for the event Gog-Magog - which they see as the concluding event before the messianic age.

Antichrist, abomination of desolation, confirming the covenant for 7 years, the little horn - none of those things which Christians talk about regarding eschatology, have any relevancy to Judaism - and they will quickly tell you - to put down Christian end times beliefs as fables, and because to acknowledge those things, would be admission they were wrong about Jesus.

They don't want to hear it, so it is hard to discuss it with them.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 13, 2018

seventysevens said:
The "Last Days" are the days immediately prior to Jesus return , that is why you don't understand , you can choose to believe whatever you want but it does not change what scripture teaches

Well you can comfort yourself with the thought that I don’t understand but you are incorrect. I understand more than you. I don’t believe Jesus is coming tomorrow. Friday we can see if I really understood.

And the question is the last days of WHAT.

Open Heart · Jun 13, 2018

Inkfingers said:
Do you think we are in the End Times?

If yes, what do you make of the following:

"...in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people." (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

The "last days" mentioned in these verses began with Christ's ascension. They might last for another 2000 years.

Usually these days when people say "last days" they mean that Christ's return is imminent. No I do not believe Christ's return is imminent. Why? Because the times before the second coming will be times of great chaos, violence, war, famine, sickness, and death. We just don't live in such times.

According to the FBI, violent crimes have significantly dropped from several decades ago. War is at an all time low, basically because Nations have learned that if they want something, they are better off using international trade than war to get it. There is more food being produced on the earth than ever before because science and technology has solved most of the problems that previously caused famines. Today we have modern medicine which has eradicated most of the diseases of the past, and reduced significantly most of the diseases that are still with us. The age to which people live has steadily increased worldwide, and human population growth is through the roof. While there are pockets of chaos, order has spread in the world, and along with it human rights, literacy, etc.

It's just not sounding like last days stuff.

To be fair, I do have to concede that there is ONE sign of coming end times, and that is that the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. It happened in 1948 when Israel became a nation again. Anyone who thought that God wasn't behind this should have been convinced by th miraculous six day war in 1967. Or the fact that today Arab nations are abandoning the Palestinian cause and making trade and military alliances with Israel.

But I just don't think that one sign alone makes for an imminent return.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 13, 2018

Open heart, I recommend you look into the Fall of Jerusalem as the day of the Lord. Jesus came to them in judgement as he told the Sanhedrin he would. That generation saw it. That generation of Christians “came out of her” as the surrounding inhabitants fled into her. The days before that were the last days before that event. That terrible time will never be again. The gospel is changing nations slowly for the better.

Inkfingers · Jun 13, 2018

Open Heart said:
The "last days" mentioned in these verses began with Christ's ascension. They might last for another 2000 years.

Usually these days when people say "last days" they mean that Christ's return is imminent. No I do not believe Christ's return is imminent. Why? Because the times before the second coming will be times of great chaos, violence, war, famine, sickness, and death. We just don't live in such times.

According to the FBI, violent crimes have significantly dropped from several decades ago. War is at an all time low, basically because Nations have learned that if they want something, they are better off using international trade than war to get it. There is more food being produced on the earth than ever before because science and technology has solved most of the problems that previously caused famines. Today we have modern medicine which has eradicated most of the diseases of the past, and reduced significantly most of the diseases that are still with us. The age to which people live has steadily increased worldwide, and human population growth is through the roof. While there are pockets of chaos, order has spread in the world, and along with it human rights, literacy, etc.

It's just not sounding like last days stuff.

Well, strictly speaking, prior to it all going boom people will actually be saying that they have "peace and security" and then "sudden destruction will come upon them" (1 Thessalonians 5:3) at which point the seals / olivet-catastrophes unfold in quick succession "like labour pains of a pregnant woman".

So it is tricky to say on such matters.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 13, 2018

Inkfingers said:
Well, strictly speaking, prior to it all going boom people will actually be saying that they have "peace and security" and then "sudden destruction will come upon them" (1 Thessalonians 5:3) at which point the seals / olivet-catastrophes unfold in quick succession "like labour pains of a pregnant woman".

So it is tricky to say on such matters.

The best fit answer is the events of Jerusalem 70 AD. Saying peace peace is not a sign. We will say peace peace in Heaven and no destruction sudden or otherwise will happen. Just a thought.

Douggg · Jun 13, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
And the question is the last days of WHAT.

Dorothy Mae, my answer would be the last days of Satan, his rebellion against God, his dominion over the earth. Jesus said he came to destroy the works of the Devil. Jesus who he is, before being born of Mary, is the Lord of Heaven, God. So it is the last days of Satan.

Some people might say the last days of the nations running wild without self-control in doing wickedness.
That God brings the Kingdom of God down to earth, that Jesus rules the nations with a rod of iron. That would be a good answer too, imo.

Inkfingers · Jun 13, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
The best fit answer is the events of Jerusalem 70 AD. Saying peace peace is not a sign. We will say peace peace in Heaven and no destruction sudden or otherwise will happen. Just a thought.

That's not really comparing like with like though, is it. Heaven is a special case. The point of "peace and security" is that it is listed in scripture as a foreshadowing of "sudden destruction".

keras · Jun 13, 2018

1 Thessalonians 5:3 When they say: all is peaceful, sudden destruction will come. There will be no escape.

Isaiah 24:1 Be warned, the Lord is about to strip the earth and scatter its inhabitants.

Psalm 68:1-2 May God arise and His enemies be scattered, they perish at His presence.

Zephaniah 3:8 Wait for Me, says the Lord, for the day that I will accuse the whole earth. In My burning anger, I will pour My wrath upon the nations.

Isaiah 63:4 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year to redeem My own had come.

Isaiah 52:10 The Lord has bared His Holy arm, the whole world will see the deliverance
brought by our God.

Micah 1:3 Even now, the Lord is leaving His dwelling place.

Psalm 18:9-15 He parted the heavens and came down, He made darkness his covering.

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all evildoers will be stubble.

Zechariah 3:9 In a single Day I shall wipe away the guilt of this Land.

Isaiah 10:17 The Holy One of Israel will become a fire, which in one day, will consume His enemies.

Isaiah 29:5-8 Suddenly, in an instant, your enemies will scatter like chaff.

Isaiah 66:15-16 The Lord will judge and test mankind with fire, many will be slain by Him

Isaiah 33:3-4 At the crack of thunder peoples flee, nations are scattered at His roar.

Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a scorching wind goes out from the Lord, sweeping around the heads of the wicked. The Lord’s anger is not to be turned aside until He has fully accomplished His purposes. You will understand in the latter days.

Erik Nelson · Jun 13, 2018

Is there a universal term for the "little time" (micros chronos) of the serpent being unbound after the millennium until the Great white throne judgement?

that would correspond to revelation 20:7-9, prior to eternity

mama2one · Jun 13, 2018

Inkfingers said:
My point is that IF we are in the End Times, consider the Bold text...

a Pastor's wife told me that she wouldn't let her teen babysit for any family

when she found out a family wasn't Godly, she immediately stopped teen from babysitting for them

she also advised me to get our child in groups with good kids, volunteer work, church groups

now the kids have grown, one is in a ministry with her husband, one attended Bible college, one went on a mission to another country to teach with a youth group

they did have their kids AVOID
kept their kids in church, volunteering at church, taking them on missions, etc

seventysevens · Jun 13, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Is there a universal term for the "little time" (micros chronos) of the serpent being unbound after the millennium until the Great white throne judgement?

that would correspond to revelation 20:7-9, prior to eternity

a short time , as in a short length of time
It seems that it is put that way , because in our time now we do not have Jesus reigning on earth and we still live in "time" as given , In the eternal realm where Jesus is now time is not as it is on earth , when Jesus returns and reigns on earth , the phrase Kingdom on earth will be literal and then the whole dynamic changes to where time will no longer be measured as it is now , for it will be measured the way it is in heaven , so there is no proper terminology to apply to it as in days , weeks, months etc -

Douggg · Jun 13, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
Is there a universal term for the "little time" (micros chronos) of the serpent being unbound after the millennium until the Great white throne judgement?

that would correspond to revelation 20:7-9, prior to eternity

I don't know, Erik, but there are two places that might give an indication - but not a guarantee of how long.

1. The 7th king is forthcoming in Revelation 17:10. When he comes, he must continue a short space. What it boils down to is the 7th king will be killed and come back to life, as the the beast and rule for the 42 months in Revelation 13. The 42 months is the short space.

2. In Revelation 12, when Satan is cast down to earth, as God starts dismantling his kingdom, he is full of wrath knowing he has but a little time left - which is expressed as a time, times, half times - a little less than the beast, by a few days or weeks. So essentially the same.

____________________________________________________________

Of related note, the 7 years begin; the first 1260 days the two witnesses testify against the Antichrist, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews;

near the end of the 1260 days, the Antichrist reveals himself as being the man of sin and betrays the Jew, is killed for his sudden claim to be God, and brought back to life as the beast; the two witnesses battle with the beast until day 1260, he kills them and they ascend on day 1263.5; leaving the beast to run wild 42 months after they are gone;

With His two witnesses martyred, God says of enough of Satan's garbage, and the 7th trumpet blows, and God starts dismantling Satan's kingdom overshadowing the world, beginning with the war of Satan being cast down to earth, with a time, times, half times left - which end coinciding with the end of the 7 years, which Satan then will be imprisoned when Jesus returns. For the thousand years.

Steve Petersen · Jun 13, 2018

Open Heart said:
The "last days" mentioned in these verses began with Christ's ascension. They might last for another 2000 years.

Usually these days when people say "last days" they mean that Christ's return is imminent. No I do not believe Christ's return is imminent. Why? Because the times before the second coming will be times of great chaos, violence, war, famine, sickness, and death. We just don't live in such times.

According to the FBI, violent crimes have significantly dropped from several decades ago. War is at an all time low, basically because Nations have learned that if they want something, they are better off using international trade than war to get it. There is more food being produced on the earth than ever before because science and technology has solved most of the problems that previously caused famines. Today we have modern medicine which has eradicated most of the diseases of the past, and reduced significantly most of the diseases that are still with us. The age to which people live has steadily increased worldwide, and human population growth is through the roof. While there are pockets of chaos, order has spread in the world, and along with it human rights, literacy, etc.

It's just not sounding like last days stuff.

To be fair, I do have to concede that there is ONE sign of coming end times, and that is that the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. It happened in 1948 when Israel became a nation again. Anyone who thought that God wasn't behind this should have been convinced by th miraculous six day war in 1967. Or the fact that today Arab nations are abandoning the Palestinian cause and making trade and military alliances with Israel.

But I just don't think that one sign alone makes for an imminent return.

And this is for you the sign [of the coming of Messiah]: that you see a septenary that begins with rain; in the second year, arrows of famine are sent out; in the third, there is great famine; and in the fourth - neither hunger nor plenty; in the sixth, great plenty, and a star will grow from the east with a staff on its head, and that is the star of Israel...and if it lights up, that is for the benefit of Israel, and then will sprout up Messiah ben David. And this is the sign for you: when you see the eastern Nero [i.e., emperor] in Damascus has fallen, and the kingdom of the Children of the East has fallen, then will salvation sprout up for Israel, and the Messiah ben David will come, and they will ascend to Jerusalem and enjoy it... - Nistarot R. Shi'mon ben Yohai, Beit ha Midrash 3:82

R. Kattina said: Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. Abaye said: it will be desolate two [thousand], as it is said, After two days will he revive us: in the third day, he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

It has been taught in accordance with R. Kattina: Just as the seventh year is one year of release in seven, so is the world: one thousand years out of seven shall be fallow, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day,' and it is further said, A Psalm and song for the Sabbath day, meaning the day that is altogether Sabbath — and it is also said, For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past.

The Tanna debe Eliyyahu teaches: The world is to exist six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation; two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era, but through our many iniquities all these years have been lost.

Elijah said to Rab Judah, the brother of R. Salia the pious: 'The world shall exist not less than eighty five jubilees, and in the last jubilee the son of David will come.' He asked him, 'At the beginning or at the end?' — He replied, 'I do not know.' 'Shall [this period] be completed or not?' — 'I do not know,' he answered. R. Ashi said: He spoke thus to him, 'Before that, do not expect him; afterwards thou mayest await him.' - b. Sanhedrin 97a-b

seventysevens · Jun 13, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
And the question is the last days of WHAT.

As Jesus taught about what will be the sign of HIS coming and the End of the Age - in the Greek it is "the completion of the Age"
The disciples acknowledged that an Age of time would be completed , Jesus responded by giving many details of what would be happening at the time of HIS coming , since obviously he was already here when the question is asked HE is speaking of when HE returns , He was physically on earth when He said that he will return again -and He will return to earth physically when the End of the Age happens - which we know has not yet happen

The end of the age is when , this world sees the end of human government and sees the Kingdom of Jesus on earth with Jesus reigning over the earth- it starts the Kingdom Age of the Messiah also known as the Messianic Age

Dorothy Mae · Jun 13, 2018

seventysevens said:
As Jesus taught about what will be the sign of HIS coming and the End of the Age - in the Greek it is "the completion of the Age"
The disciples acknowledged that an Age of time would be completed , Jesus responded by giving many details of what would be happening at the time of HIS coming , since obviously he was already here when the question is asked HE is speaking of when HE returns , He was physically on earth when He said that he will return again -and He will return to earth physically when the End of the Age happens - which we know has not yet happen

The end of the age is when , this world sees the end of human government and sees the Kingdom of Jesus on earth with Jesus reigning over the earth- it starts the Kingdom Age of the Messiah also known as the Messianic Age

Actually, the end of that age and his final return are two different events. The first comes with numerale signs. The second has no signs at all. I can give scriptures later.

If we are in the End Times...

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