Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

Status
Not open for further replies.

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the a remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
I asked for a verse that teaches that the Holy Spirit is given at water baptism. This doesn't say this. Further, Acts 2 was during the EARLIEST beginning of the Christian church. The Holy Spirit hadn't been given to any Gentiles yet. So using a verse from this period is a sign of desperation. Where did Paul teach what you claim?

But from what I can tell, you don't believe in turning away from any sin, let alone, all sin.
Your statement couldn't be further from the truth. Believers ARE to cease from sinning. Of course. But the Bible is clear about the FACT that we STILL have our original sin natures, and that we will struggle, just like Paul, with sin. But all this just keeps going right over your head.

It can be if you die soon after. But for most of us we will have various trials and temptations to face to test us. As we face each test, we can either pass or fail. If you pass one test, you are that much stronger when encountering the next test. But if you fail, it is because you have quenched the Spirit, and with each failure thereafter, you can become dull of hearing, and finally as Hebrews 10 says, "But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
And this doesn't answer my question about whether you think repentance from all sin is a one time event or does it occur again and again.

If so, is that how salvation is: like a yo-yo from your perspective?

I know you don't believe a thing God says in His word except for the ones you pick and choose.
Boy, do you misunderstand a bunch. I don't believe a thing you've posted, because none of what you post can be found in the Bible.

But you will just hide behind the excuse that you have "direct communication" with God, and He told you all this stuff.

You even have the nerve to apply them to yourself. Good luck with that if you have no power over sin.
Well, finally, maybe you're getting it a bit. You are right: I have no power over sin. And neither do you.

The ONLY WAY to cease from sin is to be in fellowship and filled with the Holy Spirit. That's where the power is. Certainly not from me. Nor you.
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
FreeGrace2 said:
Please point out that never perishing is conditioned upon following from this verse.
I kept it in context. Thats how.
This is a non answer. It doesn't show any condition in v.27 or v.28.

Jesus gave a straightforward statement about eternal security.

I'll give it to you in colors. Maybe that will help.

"I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

The red words are the CAUSE of possessing eternal life; which is Jesus Christ Himself. He's the One who gives it. Those who are given it are the recipients of it.

The blue words are the EFFECT of possessing eternal life, which is to never perish.

So, by giving us the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life, Jesus taught eternal security.
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Don't you know you can make the Word of God say anything you want it to?
I certainly know that false teachers twist and distort God's Word to say what they want their itching ears to hear.

2 Tim 4:3 - For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

You are living proof of teaching that ungodliness can be saved.
Pathetic and ridiculous. Only those who believe can be saved. Wise up.

But the Bible warns that some who believe are ungodly. Which is why the Bible is full of commands for holy and blameless living.

But, the Word of God must be read with rhemas from the Holy Spirit teaching us its truth.
Right. But you've not been paying attention.

The fact that you don't believe in eternal security when Jesus taught it so clearly is evidence.
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Further, Acts 2 was during the EARLIEST beginning of the Christian church. The Holy Spirit hadn't been given to any Gentiles yet. So using a verse from this period is a sign of desperation. Where did Paul teach what you claim?

So, you are a Paul only type a guy? What about Jesus? He spoke to Jews only. Are you a Jew?

See what I mean about picking and choosing. :doh:
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Last edited:
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
The fact that you don't believe in eternal security when Jesus taught it so clearly is evidence.

But I do believe in eternal security, but the conditions must be met. Those conditions are what you object to.
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
I certainly know that false teachers twist and distort God's Word to say what they want their itching ears to hear.

2 Tim 4:3 - For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Look at the verse you just quoted to determine which of us is a false teacher.

2 Tim 4:3 - For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Don't you see that it is someone who still has a fallen nature that wants to teach an abomination that suits their own lustful desires, and still be saved? The old 'let's have our cake and eat it too' kind of mentality.

So who is the false teacher? Mine for holiness. Or yours for easy salvation with no conditions? With yours you can still suit your own lustful desires... With mine you go from glory to glory being perfected. So read the verse again, and again. Then repent, and open your heart to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, you'll just keep believing the lie, and teach others to do the same. Shame on you if you keep teaching this false doctrine.

Don't you know that to be born again takes us out of the fallen nature. Your new nature has the mind of Christ. Romans 8:9 If you don't have His Spirit with the mind of Christ you don't belong to Him.

Now what does your common sense say to you?

That a holy God wants you to remain a sinner?
That a holy God wants you to be holy as He is holy?

I'll give you a hint.

Hebews 12:
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

Are you still rejecting this? Or are you going to still cling to 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7 as your existence, never knowing the freedom from sin in the light? If you EVER quote those verses again for yourself, I'll know you choose sin, and not Christ.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Doug Melven

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,080
2,576
59
Wyoming
✟75,708.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Doug Melven said: ↑
In Acts 8:12 the Samarians believed and were water baptized so we know they were born-again and had the indwelling Holy Spirit according to the verses listed above.
Then Peter and John came, prayed for them and laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit fell upon them.
I disagree.* They DID NOT have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
These verses disagree with you.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


You must do more than BELIEVE. Even the demons believe and tremble.
You really should find out what the demons believe.
They are not trusting Jesus Christ for salvation.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
So, when does a person have the indwelling holy Spirit?
Now? When we truly repent of all sin. That means turn away from all sin.
have the Spirit.
This verse says all believers. 1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Melven

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,080
2,576
59
Wyoming
✟75,708.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
your claims are refuted soundly by 1 John 1:8,10 and 2:1.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
You forgot verse 6. 1 John 1:6, 8, and 10 are all BEFORE Christ who takes away our sin, not just covers it while we keep committing them. 6, 8, and 10 are those who walk in darkness and still have no truth in them.

1 John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

Verse 7 is a Christian, not 6, 8 or 10. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
I notice in your reply you didn't respond to 1 John 2:1.
And I have asked before, if we believers are unable to sin, why did he write that verse?

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Explain to me what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28 by the sentence "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."
I've already told you, but hear it again.

CONTEXT:

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Two things to know if you've secured eternal life.

1. They can hear My voice. I can. You say you can't, and furthermore, that no one can.

2. and they follow Me. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." They are lead by Christ's Spirit, and cannot sin. 1 John 3:9
How is it that one who has been given eternal life can perish when Jesus said they would never perish?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
re #2629:

all BELIEVERS.

In scripture, believing can be understood in two different ways. 1) It can refer to a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (Revelation 3:16) that is either mental assent to doctrine (John 5:39-40) or an emotional experience (Luke 8:13) but is not a living and saving, heart faith; or, 2) it can refer to a living and saving, heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and also tenacious unto the enduring to the end (Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, Matthew 10:22).

In order to determine what kind of faith it is talking about any time we see the words "believe" or "faith" we must consider what word, if inserted there, will be more conducive to the doctrine/truth that is according to godliness (1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:1). For the Bible's teaching is in accordance with the doctrine that is according to godliness; it does not teach anything that would lead its readers to think that they can live ungodly lives without any kind of repercussions.

Those who have been baptized into one Spirit and have been made to drink into one Spirit, therefore, are those who believe according to definition #2.

@1stcenturylady is right in saying that we must repent of all sin to have the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And Acts 2:38-39 does indeed speak of a conditional promise; the promise being the Holy Ghost, the condition being repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. It is the conditional promise of the Holy Ghost given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

So then, repentance is very important. See Matthew 3:8-12, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Acts of the Apostles 3:19, Acts of the Apostles 17:30, Acts of the Apostles 20:21, Acts of the Apostles 26:20, 2 Corinthians 7:10.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
your claims are refuted soundly by 1 John 1:8,10 and 2:1.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

I notice in your reply you didn't respond to 1 John 2:1.
And I have asked before, if we believers are unable to sin, why did he write that verse?

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Explain to me what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28 by the sentence "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."
How is it that one who has been given eternal life can perish when Jesus said they would never perish?
If you are currently working or doing iniquity, you cannot rightly say that you are one of Jesus' sheep and therefore one who has been given eternal life. Again, Jesus knows His sheep (John 10:27). And He never knew those who work or do iniquity, and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42). He does not know them, they are not His sheep (John 10:27). They cannot therefore rightly claim John 10:28 as their 'get out of jail free' card; it does not guarantee eternal security except to the one who is currently walking in holiness (abiding in Christ).
 
Upvote 0

Doug Melven

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,080
2,576
59
Wyoming
✟75,708.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
@1stcenturylady is right in saying that we must repent of all sin to have the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And Acts 2:38-39 does indeed speak of a conditional promise; the promise being the Holy Ghost, the condition being repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. It is the conditional promise of the Holy Ghost given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.
I agree that we must repent, but not from sin (at least not the sin of breaking God's commands), we are to repent from unbelief.
Mark 1:15 says "Repent and believe the Gospel".
Repent means to change yo ur mind.
So that verse could be rephrsed as "Change your mind and believe the Gospel.
We change our mind from not believing to believing.
Acts 3:26 says Jesus Christ turns us away from sins, we don't turn ourselves.
If we trust Him to lead us, we won't sin.

If you are currently working or doing iniquity, you cannot rightly say that you are one of Jesus' sheep and therefore one who has been given eternal life. Again, Jesus knows His sheep (John 10:27). And He never knew those who work or do iniquity, and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42). He does not know them, they are not His sheep (John 10:27). They cannot therefore rightly claim John 10:28 as their 'get out of jail free' card; it does not guarantee eternal security except to the one who is currently walking in holiness (abiding in Christ).
Believers are declared to be saints, not sinners.
Our identity is not in what we do, but in whose we are.
Believers are not children of disobedience or wrath. We were children of wrath and disobedience, but that is not who we are now. Ephesians 2:1-10, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

And with your doctrine God's promise not to impute sin to the believer is an empty promise.
Pretty much saying God won't impute sin to you as long as you don't sin.

@justbyfaith I am curious why you rated post 2542 funny?
I was extremely serious.
For if you say Jesus was speaking hyperbole when He said "I never knew you" how can you tell when hyperbole is being used?
What do you tell the skeptic when he says the Genesis 1 account is hyperbole?
Or the whole earth wasn't destroyed in a flood, that was just hyperbole.
Or Psalms 105:37 that says not one feeble among the Jews who left Egypt after the plagues.
Did Moses really part the Red Sea and they walked on dry land?
Did Jesus really feed 5000 men plus women and children with just 5 loaves and 2 fish?
Did Jesus really rise from the dead?
Are you really depending solely on Jesus Christ and Him crucified? Or are you dependnding on Him plus your works?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: FreeGrace2
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
I agree that we must repent, but not from sin (at least not the sin of breaking God's commands), we are to repent from unbelief.
Mark 1:15 says "Repent and believe the Gospel".
Repent means to change yo ur mind.
So that verse could be rephrsed as "Change your mind and believe the Gospel.
We change our mind from not believing to believing.
Acts 3:26 says Jesus Christ turns us away from sins, we don't turn ourselves.
If we trust Him to lead us, we won't sin.

That is false doctrine. To repent means to turn away from sin.

Believers are declared to be saints, not sinners.
Our identity is not in what we do, but in whose we are.

1 John 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Believers are not children of disobedience or wrath. We were children of wrath and disobedience, but that is not who we are now. Ephesians 2:1-10, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

And the fact that we are not children of disobedience means that we are not disobedient, if we are not the children of disobedience.

And with your doctrine God's promise not to impute sin to the believer is an empty promise.
Pretty much saying God won't impute sin to you as long as you don't sin.
God's promise to not impute sin is interpreted by Romans 3:25 and 2 Peter 1:9, which tells us that God does not impute past sins to us. Of course even those who do well in living the Christian life in the present moment once were not Christians, and sinned as unbelievers. So those old sins that they committed as unbelievers, God will not impute to them.

@justbyfaith I am curious why you rated post 2542 funny?
I was extremely serious.
For if you say Jesus was speaking hyperbole when He said "I never knew you" how can you tell when hyperbole is being used?
What do you tell the skeptic when he says the Genesis 1 account is hyperbole?
Or the whole earth wasn't destroyed in a flood, that was just hyperbole.
Or Psalms 105:37 that says not one feeble among the Jews who left Egypt after the plagues.
Did Moses really part the Red Sea and they walked on dry land?
Did Jesus really feed 5000 men plus women and children with just 5 loaves and 2 fish?
Did Jesus really rise from the dead?

When Jesus or an apostle uses hyperbole, it is pretty clear and evident that they are doing so. Jesus was not telling us literally to pluck out our eye or cut off our hand if they cause us to sin. And also, the interpretation of 1 John 3:9 that fits so well with gnosticism is something that I categorically reject. And calling 1 John 3:9 hyperbole gets certain people off my back, who want to accuse me of teaching sinless perfection; when what I really believe in is entire sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:18, 1 John 2:17 with 1 John 3:6).

Are you really depending solely on Jesus Christ and Him crucified? Or are you depending on Him plus your works?

Yes Jesus Christ and Him crucified is the only reason I am saved. However, did you know that when He was crucified His blood was shed? And in that, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7). In that, we are sanctified (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29).

There is a work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) an obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5) and an obedience of faith (Romans 16:26).

I do not consider myself saved by the works that I do; but I consider my works to be a sign of the fact that I am truly saved. I am His poeima, created in Christ Jesus unto good works that God has before ordained that I should walk in them.

I am saved purely by the blood of Jesus Christ; which makes me a new creature in Him (2 Corinthians 5:17). Old things are passed away, all things are become new. I have a new heart and a new spirit, and He causes me to walk in His statutes and in His judgments (Ezekiel 36:25-27). I am transformed within; and this means that my outward life is changed also (Matthew 23:25-26, Luke 11:39-40).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Doug Melven said: ↑
In Acts 8:12 the Samarians believed and were water baptized so we know they were born-again and had the indwelling Holy Spirit according to the verses listed above.
Then Peter and John came, prayed for them and laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit fell upon them.
These verses disagree with you.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


You really should find out what the demons believe.
They are not trusting Jesus Christ for salvation.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
So, when does a person have the indwelling holy Spirit?

have the Spirit.
This verse says all believers. 1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Doug, that was the first day for the Samaritans, so it was different then than thereafter. So you can't claim Romans 8:9, but Romans 8:9 IS the reason the apostles went to them to lay hands on them to receive. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is imperative in the lives of all believers. Otherwise, they will remain in the flesh with no power to overcome sinning in the future.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
I notice in your reply you didn't respond to 1 John 2:1.
And I have asked before, if we believers are unable to sin, why did he write that verse?

I told you when you asked the first time.

Believers are declared to be saints, not sinners.
Our identity is not in what we do, but in whose we are.

That sounds pretty, but it is grace turned into licentiousness! You may believe for yourself it is not in what you do, but wise up!

John says, Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

Paul says, Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

So which is it going to be? Heaven, or Hell?
 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
I agree that we must repent, but not from sin (at least not the sin of breaking God's commands), we are to repent from unbelief.

2 Corinthians 12
and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.

Stop the ignorance of Scripture! Turn from your sin toward Jesus.


 
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
How is it that one who has been given eternal life can perish when Jesus said they would never perish?

They can't. But sinners practicing their sin do not qualify and cannot claim the promise.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

I see you and the other guy like the promises of God, but follow your own path. Good luck with that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
re #2629:

all BELIEVERS.

In scripture, believing can be understood in two different ways. 1) It can refer to a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (Revelation 3:16) that is either mental assent to doctrine (John 5:39-40) or an emotional experience (Luke 8:13) but is not a living and saving, heart faith; or, 2) it can refer to a living and saving, heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and also tenacious unto the enduring to the end (Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, Matthew 10:22).

In order to determine what kind of faith it is talking about any time we see the words "believe" or "faith" we must consider what word, if inserted there, will be more conducive to the doctrine/truth that is according to godliness (1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:1). For the Bible's teaching is in accordance with the doctrine that is according to godliness; it does not teach anything that would lead its readers to think that they can live ungodly lives without any kind of repercussions.

Those who have been baptized into one Spirit and have been made to drink into one Spirit, therefore, are those who believe according to definition #2.

@1stcenturylady is right in saying that we must repent of all sin to have the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And Acts 2:38-39 does indeed speak of a conditional promise; the promise being the Holy Ghost, the condition being repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. It is the conditional promise of the Holy Ghost given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

So then, repentance is very important. See Matthew 3:8-12, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Acts of the Apostles 3:19, Acts of the Apostles 17:30, Acts of the Apostles 20:21, Acts of the Apostles 26:20, 2 Corinthians 7:10.

They both sound like they are from a Reformation denominational background. You are familiar with the letters to the seven churches - read Sardis - the Reformation age.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.