Lutherans Only Importance of Luther

derpytia · May 8, 2018

Do you think that we Lutherans perhaps we give too much importance/emphasis to Martin Luther?
I've heard it argued that while he certainly is an important figure in our denomination we forget that he was a man like us with many faults and sins-- antisemitism being one of them.

What do you think?

Tigger45 · May 8, 2018

I and Lutheranism itself holds Luther at a high esteem but with that said we’re pretty up front about his short comings also.

Halbhh · May 8, 2018

In our Lutheran church we learned in a series on the reformation and Luther of his serious faults and good deeds, both.

And then there was this side:

"Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer! " -- Martin Luther
;=)

Daniel9v9 · May 8, 2018

Luther is not our pope, and it's important to recognize that there were many people around Luther that helped shape the Lutheran Confessions and reform the church as we know it. However, I think he is rightly held in high esteem as he was, in my opinion, a most vigorous defender of the Gospel, following closely in the footsteps of Paul. I think many of the attacks on Luther are often unwarranted and baseless. Luther's passion for God's Word and Sacraments, his firmness in faith and a relentless unwillingness to compromise in the Gospel is what I take from him. We should give thanks to God that the pure Gospel prevails.

ViaCrucis · May 9, 2018

For most of my time being a Lutheran virtually all Lutheran sources I encounter are pretty up front that we can't put Luther on a pedestal. Luther was a very broken individual, we can respect the man for his contributions to theology and biblical exegesis--like so many others before and after--but if we try and crown Martin with a special saintly crown we will be immensely disappointed. Consider only Luther's views about the Jews, while we might be able to give ourselves a small measure of comfort that in a lot of ways Luther was simply a product of his time and that antisemitic sentiment was a common one in the late middle ages--that doesn't excuse it or justify it, and further in a lot of ways Luther's antisemitism was especially grotesque even in the historical context of 16th century Europe.

There's no reason for us to try and defend Luther where he is indefensible. Instead we can remember that even the most loathsome of sinners are called by God through the Gospel to salvation in Jesus Christ; because in Christ God is precisely the One who comes to sinners in order to bring them to Himself, in grace.

-CryptoLutheran

LizaMarie · May 9, 2018

ViaCrucis said:
For most of my time being a Lutheran virtually all Lutheran sources I encounter are pretty up front that we can't put Luther on a pedestal. Luther was a very broken individual, we can respect the man for his contributions to theology and biblical exegesis--like so many others before and after--but if we try and crown Martin with a special saintly crown we will be immensely disappointed. Consider only Luther's views about the Jews, while we might be able to give ourselves a small measure of comfort that in a lot of ways Luther was simply a product of his time and that antisemitic sentiment was a common one in the late middle ages--that doesn't excuse it or justify it, and further in a lot of ways Luther's antisemitism was especially grotesque even in the historical context of 16th century Europe.

There's no reason for us to try and defend Luther where he is indefensible. Instead we can remember that even the most loathsome of sinners are called by God through the Gospel to salvation in Jesus Christ; because in Christ God is precisely the One who comes to sinners in order to bring them to Himself, in grace.

-CryptoLutheran

Yeah, pretty awful, his views towards the Jews evolved from semi-favorable to being flat out against them I think in part because they rejected the reformation version of the gospel. He had said he understood why they would reject medieval Catholicism but he became angry when they rejected the Reformation gospel.(anger problems maybe)
However there were lots of good things about Luther, too.
My mother, a lifelong devout Lutheran, always said Luther is not infallible, he is not Pope or a saint.

tampasteve · May 10, 2018

As others have said, Luther is not our Pope, and I think most are pretty up front about his shortcomings. He is greatly respected and obviously a world changing individual, but most are not trying to hide where he fell short of our Christian ideals. That said, I think that many Lutherans do not understand the importance of other Lutherans at the time and since. For example, Philip Melanchthon and Justus Jonas in the early formation and Dietrich Bonhoeffer more recently.

ViaCrucis · May 10, 2018

tampasteve said:
As others have said, Luther is not our Pope, and I think most are pretty up front about his shortcomings. He is greatly respected and obviously a world changing individual, but most are not trying to hide where he fell short of our Christian ideals. That said, I think that many Lutherans do not understand the importance of other Lutherans at the time and since. For example, Philip Melanchthon and Justus Jonas in the early formation and Dietrich Bonhoeffer more recently.

And in some ways it's probably the Other Martin (Chemnitz) that is perhaps more important to the history of Lutheran theology.

Ultimately the Confessions define what it means to be a Lutheran Christian, not Luther or any individual. Our faith is a confessionis, a speaking-together; a speaking-together of the Holy and precious Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and our Christian hope, faith, and practice as the people of Christ. That Confession depends, not on Luther, or Chemnitz, or any other; but on Christ and His Word.

-CryptoLutheran

Resha Caner · May 17, 2018

This is a very thorny issue. As others have mentioned, Lutherans do their best not to put Luther on a pedestal. Our intent is to simply be faithful to Christ, which means discussing the theology of Lutheranism rather than the history of Luther.

The problem comes when trying to put faith into action. Theology needs symbols, celebrations, etc. in order to become real to people, and often such things are embedded in a culture. The culture of Lutheranism is Reformation Germany, and the historical events of that time have become pivotal to Lutheran identity. We express justification by talking about how selling indulgences was wrong. We express how Christ is our king by talking about how the Bishop of Rome presumes too much authority. We express our joy regarding what Christ has done by singing "A Mighty Fortress is Our God".

In the Americas we've added Walther to those cultural touchstones.

Doing those things and keeping in mind that Luther was fallible just like us can be hard to do. Attacks on Luther can often seem like attacks on Lutheranism.

Kalevalatar · May 18, 2018

Here in Finland -- and probably in the neighbouring Nordic countries in general -- Martin Luther is actually a rather distant foreign historical figure. We tend to associate Reformation and Lutheranism with our local 16th century reformers: Petrus Särkilahti, Bishops Agricola and Juusten.

Archivist · May 18, 2018

Halbhh said:
And then there was this side:

"Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer! " -- Martin Luther
;=)

And Luther's wife, Katharina von Bora, brewed her own beer!

Babe Ruth · May 18, 2018

Luther's the Founding Father of our church. He's also one of the most significant figures in Western history.
My opinion, he's not revered and/or studied enough.

Per the original post, I've never heard anyone forget Luther's a flawed human being tho.. but that doesn't negate his gamechanging & inspirational role in history. Peace.

FireDragon76 · May 23, 2018

derpytia said:
Do you think that we Lutherans perhaps we give too much importance/emphasis to Martin Luther?
I've heard it argued that while he certainly is an important figure in our denomination we forget that he was a man like us with many faults and sins-- antisemitism being one of them.

What do you think?

At our church the focus is on Jesus, not Luther. We really only emphasized him alot during the 500th anniversary.

At the same time, there's alot positive about Luther's character that is not appreciated in a society dominated by Christian moralism.

CaliforniaJosiah · Jun 11, 2018

derpytia said:
Do you think that we Lutherans perhaps we give too much importance/emphasis to Martin Luther?
I've heard it argued that while he certainly is an important figure in our denomination we forget that he was a man like us with many faults and sins-- antisemitism being one of them.

What do you think?

Well, he did get a lot of attention during 2017 - the 500th Anniversary of the Reformation. But otherwise, quite little.

His importance is really limited to his additions to the Lutheran Confessions (the Book of Concord), which . are a minority of that collection. I think generally Lutherans consider him just a sinful bloat who put his pants on one leg at a time and who sometimes said very good things and sometimes not so much, but who always accepted accountability.

By the way, I highly recommend a new book on Luther. It's Martin Luther by Eric Metaxas. Yeah, YET ANOTHER book about him.... but this one is exceptional in many ways, and I like that it's written not by a Lutheran OR Catholic (both obvioulsy have an ax to grind here) but by a Greek Orthodox scholar and historian, he gives things a quite unique perspective. I learned much and found the book very interesting and easy to follow.

- Josiah

FireDragon76 · Jun 11, 2018

Metaxas is an evangelical Episcopalian. And his biographies are not that scholarly, he doesn't understand his subject matter in much depth. My pastor didn't think much of Metaxas' Luther biography, he felt he did not understand several key things about Luther's theology or mindset.

Babe Ruth · Jun 11, 2018

CaliforniaJosiah said:
I think generally Lutherans consider him just a sinful bloat..
-Josiah

Josiah, hi..
Do you have/cite polling, articles, etc to support this dim perception (of Luther) within the Lutheran church (?)

Tigger45 · Jun 11, 2018

This is from his biography off of Wiki.
Eric Metaxas - Wikipedia

Metaxas was raised in the Greek Orthodox Church and while he has not formally left it (saying he has "great respect" for it) he has attended Calvary-St. George Episcopal Church in New York since 2001.[4][5] Metaxas describes himself as a "Mere Christian" after the works of C.S. Lewis, saying his books "don't touch upon anything at all where Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox Christians differ. They express just the basics of the faith, from a basic, ecumenical Christian viewpoint. They only talk about the Christian faith that they have agreement on.

*Lutherans Only* Importance of Luther

Compassion.

Pray like your life depends on it!

Everything You say is Life to me

†

Confessional Lutheran

Newbie

Pray for peace in Israel

Confessional Lutheran

Expert Fool

Supisuomalainen sisupussi

Senior Veteran

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Pray like your life depends on it!

Similar threads

Lutherans Only Importance of Luther