If we are in the End Times...

Inkfingers said:

Do you think we are in the End Times?

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Both the when and the how.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

No comment

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Wow, low threshold to define sin. Say the truth that is unplesant for some and it is called sin for you. I mean all who said he wasn't coming in their lifetime were telling the truth. But that is "sin" for you. I read that telling the truth is not a sin, although it might be unkind at points in time. We are not going to get along well. I have recieved a deep love of the truth and do not think that we are not allowed to say the truth even if unpleasant for some believers. Jesus is not coming in my lifetime....nope...no conviction that I am sinning.

seventysevens said:

2 Peter 3:3-4
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

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Good that you finally quoted the rest of verse. This is sin, walking after one's own lusts. That is sin.

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

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That is not sin if it referes to Jesus' coming alone because everyone who lived 71 AD until today, they were telling the truth. God likes the truth in reference to Jesus coming. Now it is not really true in that all things continue as the world changes and has changed and pretty dramatically at points in time. So this bit is not true. But if I write "jesus is not coming in my lifetime" and he does not come before I die, I was telling the truth. God is not going to charge me with sin for saying something that was 100% true.

However, my attitude is not so that I can walk after my own lust. It is because that is how I see things. I follow Jesus and endeavor to obey God and have done so in the past. My attitude is not that same as described above. It is pretty non-descerning to assume anyone who says "Jesus is not coming tomorrow" means what the above verse describes. It seems that your view is, either one does not dare admit that Jesus is likely not coming tomorrow or one says so and is sinning. Talk about tyranny!! One is afraid to say the likely truth.

You didn't ask me if I think he is coming again AT ALL. I do. Emphatically. No question. In the next 50 years? Probably not. My lifetime, pretty certainly not. No sin there.

Biblewriter said:

The scriptures teach us to view this as a current expectation. Anyone who says it will not happen in our lifetimes is contradicting that current expectation.

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You do not know that. Paul told the church the end will not come until the man of perdition is revealed. So until that happened (or happens if you think it is future) one can be 100% that he is not coming. That is what scripture teaches. So, if one believes the scripture the man of sin must be revealed before Jesus comes. He is not revealed to date, so Jesus cannot come tomorrow according to scripture. One needs to read all of scripture to get the truth, not just the bits one likes.

Dorothy Mae said:

Good that you finally quoted the rest of verse. This is sin, walking after one's own lusts. That is sin.
That is not sin if it referes to Jesus' coming alone because everyone who lived 71 AD until today, they were telling the truth. God likes the truth in reference to Jesus coming. Now it is not really true in that all things continue as the world changes and has changed and pretty dramatically at points in time. So this bit is not true. But if I write "jesus is not coming in my lifetime" and he does not come before I die, I was telling the truth. God is not going to charge me with sin for saying something that was 100% true.

However, my attitude is not so that I can walk after my own lust. It is because that is how I see things. I follow Jesus and endeavor to obey God and have done so in the past. My attitude is not that same as described above. It is pretty non-descerning to assume anyone who says "Jesus is not coming tomorrow" means what the above verse describes. It seems that your view is, either one does not dare admit that Jesus is likely not coming tomorrow or one says so and is sinning. Talk about tyranny!! One is afraid to say the likely truth.

You didn't ask me if I think he is coming again AT ALL. I do. Emphatically. No question. In the next 50 years? Probably not. My lifetime, pretty certainly not. No sin there.

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Question: "What does the Bible say about scoffers?"

Answer: The word translated "scoffer" in English can mean "one who mocks, ridicules, or scorns the belief of another." In Hebrew, the word translated "scoffer" or "mocker" can also mean "ambassador." So a scoffer is one who not only disagrees with an idea, but he also considers himself an ambassador for the opposing idea. He cannot rest until he has demonstrated the foolishness of any idea not his own. A scoffer voices his disagreement, ridicules all who stand against him, and actively recruits others to join his side. In the Bible, scoffers are those who choose to disbelieve God and His Word. They say in their hearts, "There is no God" (Psalm 14:1), and make it their ambition to ridicule those who follow God.

The Bible has a lot to say about scoffers (Proverbs 19:29; 29:8; Acts 13:41). Proverbs 3:34 says that God "scoffs at the scoffers, yet He gives grace to the afflicted." Psalm 1:1 gives us clear instruction about how to deal with scoffers: "How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stand in the path of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers" (NASB). The progression of unbelief begins with listening to ungodly counsel and ends with joining the scoffers. The Bible warns us not to entertain the company of those who actively ridicule our faith, or we risk having that faith destroyed. Proverbs 13:20 says, "Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm" (ESV).

We cannot totally escape the presence of scoffers. They were active in Jesus' day, and we continue to hear from them today. Jesus told His disciples, “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you" (John 15:18–19). A Christian should "always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks . . . to give the reason for the hope that you have" (1 Peter 3:15). However, when we cease to be the influencers and start to become the influenced, it is time to "shake the dust off our feet" (Matthew 10:14; Mark 6:11; Luke 10:11).

Second Peter 3:3 warns us that "in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires" (cf. Jude 1:18). We know from Scripture that scoffing will only increase as we near the time for Jesus' return (2 Timothy 3:1-5). We already see it happening with the blanket acceptance of evolutionary theory that excludes a Creator, the rapid expansion of false religions that deny the deity of Christ, and the numeric explosion of those who identify themselves as agnostics and atheists.

Scoffers have always been and will always be present in the world. But there is coming a promised day when "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10–11). On that day there will no longer be any scoffers. They will at last accept the truth, and their scoffing will be forever silenced.

seventysevens said:

Question: "What does the Bible say about scoffers?"

Answer: The word translated "scoffer" in English can mean "one who mocks, ridicules, or scorns the belief of another." In Hebrew, the word translated "scoffer" or "mocker" can also mean "ambassador." So a scoffer is one who not only disagrees with an idea, but he also considers himself an ambassador for the opposing idea. He cannot rest until he has demonstrated the foolishness of any idea not his own. A scoffer voices his disagreement, ridicules all who stand against him, and actively recruits others to join his side. In the Bible, scoffers are those who choose to disbelieve God and His Word. They say in their hearts, "There is no God" (Psalm 14:1), and make it their ambition to ridicule those who follow God.

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This could describe Elijah who scoffed at Baal and the followers of Baal. Also it describes Christians who consider themselves ambassadors to those who oppose God. They sometimes demonstrate the foolisheness of atheists. I can show you threads here. They voice their disagreement (although this describes Jesus as well). Jesus actively recruited other to join him. Now you last statment lets out anyone who is a Christian since we believe God and his word. So in some parts it describes prophets of God at times, Jesus at times, Christians at times but if all attributes are required, probably describes very few.

The Bible has a lot to say about scoffers (Proverbs 19:29; 29:8; Acts 13:41). Proverbs 3:34 says that God "scoffs at the scoffers, yet He gives grace to the afflicted." Psalm 1:1 gives us clear instruction about how to deal with scoffers: "How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stand in the path of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers" (NASB). The progression of unbelief begins with listening to ungodly counsel and ends with joining the scoffers. The Bible warns us not to entertain the company of those who actively ridicule our faith, or we risk having that faith destroyed. Proverbs 13:20 says, "Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm" (ESV).

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Since scoffers are also ambassadors according to you, the whole word loses its negative connotation.

We cannot totally escape the presence of scoffers. They were active in Jesus' day, and we continue to hear from them today. Jesus told His disciples, “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you" (John 15:18–19). A Christian should "always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks . . . to give the reason for the hope that you have" (1 Peter 3:15). However, when we cease to be the influencers and start to become the influenced, it is time to "shake the dust off our feet" (Matthew 10:14; Mark 6:11; Luke 10:11).

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We are full of ambassadors as well. But ambassadors are not a bad thing. I would drop the ""scoffer" or "mocker" can also mean "ambassador" bit. Means "scoffers" are not a bad thing. I don't think that is what you want to say. But if you offer that translation, your opponent can run with it. Next time don't mention it as an alternative legimate translation.

Second Peter 3:3 warns us that "in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires" (cf. Jude 1:18). We know from Scripture that scoffing will only increase as we near the time for Jesus' return (2 Timothy 3:1-5). We already see it happening with the blanket acceptance of evolutionary theory that excludes a Creator, the rapid expansion of false religions that deny the deity of Christ, and the numeric explosion of those who identify themselves as agnostics and atheists.

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Well, I think the last days were the days before the terrible events during the fall of Jerusalem for the most part so not a part of my world.

Scoffers have always been and will always be present in the world. But there is coming a promised day when "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10–11). On that day there will no longer be any scoffers. They will at last accept the truth, and their scoffing will be forever silenced.

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Jesus second coming in "Perusia" will change the world for sure but I am not convinced that a sign for that is scoffers sinch Jesus gave no signs for this.

Dorothy Mae said:

Well, I think the last days were the days before the terrible events during the fall of Jerusalem for the most part so not a part of my world.

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The "Last Days" are the days immediately prior to Jesus return , that is why you don't understand , you can choose to believe whatever you want but it does not change what scripture teaches

Learn from the statements in the Bible, Yes. BUT, HOWEVER, NOTWITHSTANDING..., sometimes it is literally directed at the people of the day as a lesson to the people of the day to correct the people of the day. It is your duty to examine where and why it fits. Some admonitions were being made to the Pharisees and Sadducee converts in that time before Jesus returned. (At least, in Hebrews) We need to look at all of the text to understand what was being said, to whom it was being said, and the why of saying it. The learning experience is not always based on Jesus or a prophet making a direct quote, directed at us specifically, 2,000 - 3,000 years later. Otherwise we can just pick out one word or one phrase, apply it, and move on. I.e. ..., "have ever lasting life." There we go. Nobody dies. Nobody goes to heaven or hell. Just lives forever and ever. No, the Word of God is intended to be taken in it's entirety, Old and New. Otherwise, are you not limiting God by refusing to believe that He had control over what was included and why. ["Old Testament? Oh, that doesn't count any more. It is all just a bunch of old geezers. We are living under the new Jesus rules. We can jump over the pews and change diapers and nurse in the sanctuary in the middle of the new pastors sermon 'cause all that old stuff is dead and buried."]

Dorothy Mae said:

You do not know that. Paul told the church the end will not come until the man of perdition is revealed. So until that happened (or happens if you think it is future) one can be 100% that he is not coming. That is what scripture teaches. So, if one believes the scripture the man of sin must be revealed before Jesus comes. He is not revealed to date, so Jesus cannot come tomorrow according to scripture. One needs to read all of scripture to get the truth, not just the bits one likes.

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This scripture simply does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the man of sin must be revealed”before Jesus comes.” It say the “day of the Lord” will not come until the man of sin is revealed. This is very different from what you said.

The first one happened in A.D. 79. The other has not happened yet.

Inkfingers said:

Do you think we are in the End Times?

If yes, what do you make of the following:

"...in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people." (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

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You know, last week I was thinking about entertainment in our day and age and I was thinking "man this world is so evil an immoral" then I went to research about what people did before TV. So I found an article, the first thing they listed was: Attending Public Dissections. First it was for scientific purposes and then it was like a frenzy for entertainment purposes only.

This is when I realised: It's not actually new that humans are evil and immoral because they always have been since the fall and will always be without God. I agree with Solomon, there is indeed nothing new under the sun. All humans care about is pleasures of the flesh.

Now is it the end times according to the above? I don't know for sure, especially that 1 day is like 1000 years for God. I guess prophesy (Daniel, Revelation) could reveal that. In every civilization and era the above have existed, look at the Romans and the greeks.

That's maybe a bit of a stretch but what if the end times is the end of a life? What if with old age comes wisdom so what was once cool is now futile and ungrateful, unholy, heartless...

JesusYeshuaisLord said:

You know, last week I was thinking about entertainment in our day and age and I was thinking "man this world is so evil an immoral" then I went to research about what people did before TV. So I found an article, the first thing they listed was: Attending Public Dissections. First it was for scientific purposes and then it was like a frenzy for entertainment purposes only.

This is when I realised: It's not actually new that humans are evil and immoral because they always have been since the fall and will always be without God. I agree with Solomon, there is indeed nothing new under the sun. All humans care about is pleasures of the flesh.

Now is it the end times according to the above? I don't know for sure, especially that 1 day is like 1000 years for God. I guess prophesy (Daniel, Revelation) could reveal that. In every civilization and era the above have existed, look at the Romans and the greeks.

That's maybe a bit of a stretch but what if the end times is the end of a life? What if with old age comes wisdom so what was once cool is now futile and ungrateful, unholy, heartless...

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The widespread and general increase in open wickedness is only a very small part of the many reasons that we know that we are indeed very close to the end.

Biblewriter said:

This scripture simply does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the man of sin must be revealed”before Jesus comes.” It say the “day of the Lord” will not come until the man of sin is revealed. This is very different from what you said.

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But it means essentially the same thing... if one means before Jesus comes as meaning before his return to earth in Revelation 19. (I have not been following the discussion ).

On the other hand, if one means by Jesus's coming - as Jesus coming for the rapture, then no, Jesus comes for the rapture before the man of sin is revealed.

Which just simply means before the man of sin goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.... triggering the Day of the Lord....Jesus comes for the rapture.

What we don't know is how soon before.

Douggg said:

But it means essentially the same thing... if one means before Jesus comes as meaning before his return to earth in Revelation 19. (I have not been following the discussion ).

On the other hand, if one means by Jesus's coming - as Jesus coming for the rapture, then no, Jesus comes for the rapture before the man of sin is revealed.

Which just simply means before the man of sin goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.... triggering the Day of the Lord....Jesus comes for the rapture.

What we don't know is how soon before.

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The day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath. The coming of Jesus for his own is an entirely different event.

Biblewriter said:

The day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath. The coming of Jesus for his own is an entirely different event.

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But related. The rapture is in 1Thessalonians4:15-18. Paul continues in 1Thessalonians5 to indicate when. Before the Day of the Lord begins.

The rapture is in 1Thessalonians5:10.

Verse 1 of the times and the seasons - for the resurrection/rapture, Paul just revealed. The world is going to be saying Peace and Safety. Which will be because they think they have entered the messianic age. But sudden destruction comes upon them - because the Day of the Lord hits them like a thief in the night. Which a person can go to 2Thessalonians2:3-4, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the person, their thought-to-be messiah, goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.

They shall not escape. Just the opposite which Jesus said to believers in Luke 21:34-36 - to escape and stand before the Son of Man. Jesus said to be sober, just as Paul said below.

In verse 9, not appointed to wrath. Verse 10, whether asleep (the resurrection) or wake (the rapture), we should live with Jesus forever... escaping to heaven the Day of the Lord, its beginning, here on earth which will come upon all them that dwell upon the face of the whole earth (Luke 21:35) .

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

These are the end times. God will return when the cup of his wrath is filled and I don't know when that will be but a lot of people are working very hard to see that it gets done as soon as possible. I agree with the OP. Avoid such people.

Inkfingers said:

Do you think we are in the End Times?

If yes, what do you make of the following:

"...in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people." (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

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Matthew 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Matthew 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Inkfingers said:

Do you think we are in the End Times?

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Been there since this age began (thousands of years.)

If yes, what do you make of the following:

"...in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people." (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

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Truth. I would go further and say we ARE to judge people, or discern these qualities in order to either minister against it for the Most High God, or stay away.