Am a King James Bible Believer
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TCassidy
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You are aware, are you not, that τα αγια refers to the sanctuary (in this case in heaven) where the blood is sprinkled to purchase the Atonement? You do know that takes place in the Holy of Holies, right? Where the Mercy Seat is located? You know, the MOST Holy part of the Temple?
You are aware, are you not, that "Jehovah" is a made up name? The Jews believed the Name YHWH (Yahwah) was too holy to speak so they made up a new word by using the consonants from Yahwah (YHWH) and the vowels from the other Hebrew word for Lord, "adonai." (AOA) So they invented the new, fake, name "Yahovah." With the later invention of the letter "J" in the English (about 1550) that fake, made up word, became "Jahovah" and now Jehovah.
And, on top of all that, LORD is how the KJV renders the same word (YHWA) about 3000 times in the Old Testament.
So, if the NKJV takes away the name Jehovah twice, using LORD, as you noted, the KJV takes away the name Jehovah over 3000 times! LOL!
The OT is based on the Stuttgartensia Hebrew text which differs from the Bomberg text that underlies the KJV in 8 places that would affect translation and every time the NKJV follows the Bomberg/KJV reading.
And the NKJV New Testament follows the TR, just like the KJV. (Preface to the NKJV, page xxv.)
Yes. The school master who taught the assembled students. IE, a scholar.
Yes. From the Greek θλίβω meaning "troublesome" or "difficult" or "precarious."
Which is, of course, what "narrow" meant in 1611.
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TCassidy
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Matt 23:13 KJV But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matt 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Matt 23:13 WEB “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and as a pretense you make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Matt 23:14 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don’t enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter.
How interesting! Look at what the TR says!
Matt 23:13 TR ουαι δε υμιν γραμματεις και φαρισαιοι υποκριται οτι κατεσθιετε τας οικιας των χηρων και προφασει μακρα προσευχομενοι δια τουτο ληψεσθε περισσοτερον κριμα
Mat 23:14 ουαι υμιν γραμματεις και φαρισαιοι υποκριται οτι κλειετε την βασιλειαν των ουρανων εμπροσθεν των ανθρωπων υμεις γαρ ουκ εισερχεσθε ουδε τους εισερχομενους αφιετε εισελθειν
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The Ark Hive Mind
The Ark Hive
Then I got the time to wait you out. The good ol' AV been here a lot longer and will be here until the end.
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So, will the Q'ran, the Baggavagita, Vedas, and Upanishads be here. If you wish to believe that God only understands Arabic, as our friends, the Muslims, sincerely believe, you have a right to your opinion. If you believe that God only understands early seventeenth-century English (as revised several times into the early nineteenth century) you have a right to that opinion. As for myself, I happen to believe that a citizen of the Peoples Republic of China does not need to understand early seventeenth-century English (as revised several times into the early nineteenth century) in order to be a child of God and I have a right to my opinion, do I not?
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The Ark Hive Mind
The Ark Hive
Never said such a stupid thing. Neither does any believer in the preserved words of God in English of the AV that I am aware of.
You do realize that even the AV translators didn't speak exactly like the AV. Read the preface to the readers of the AV1611 and compare it to the AV English translation. There is a specific reason why the AV reads like it does.
Most of the issues are putting out the evil fires of ignorance and misconception (straw men, false definitions) that are wrongly applied to those like me.
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Thomas Schular
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The bible isn't the preserved words of God. The bible is the preserved word of God.
Only Muslims and KJV-onlyists believe that God "wrote" a holy text word of word. Muhammad was an uneducated illiterate. What's the KJV-only excuse?
Words from one language cannot be translated word for word. To state that a particular translation is the "preserved words" of God shows a profound lack of understanding of language and translation. I guess that is why you watch and post youtube videos.
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The Ark Hive Mind
The Ark Hive
Brother, listen a moment please.
Yes, the AV that I have in my hands, is the preserved "word" of God in the English language. I have said that on numerous occasions.
Yet, if you will consider that in the Bible, the AV, it says:
Exo_24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Psa_12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Jer_36:4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
Jer_36:6 Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the LORD in the ears of the people in the LORD'S house upon the fasting day: and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities.
Jer_36:8 And Baruch the son of Neriah did according to all that Jeremiah the prophet commanded him, reading in the book the words of the LORD in the LORD'S house.
Jer_36:11 When Michaiah the son of Gemariah, the son of Shaphan, had heard out of the book all the words of the LORD,
Joh_3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Rev_17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
see also "thy words" O Lord, O God, and so on.Psa_12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Jer_36:4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
Jer_36:6 Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the LORD in the ears of the people in the LORD'S house upon the fasting day: and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities.
Jer_36:8 And Baruch the son of Neriah did according to all that Jeremiah the prophet commanded him, reading in the book the words of the LORD in the LORD'S house.
Jer_36:11 When Michaiah the son of Gemariah, the son of Shaphan, had heard out of the book all the words of the LORD,
Joh_3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Rev_17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
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The Ark Hive Mind
The Ark Hive
Consider a moment brother, with me please:
Act_26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
The LORD (Jesus) spoke to Saul in what language in Act. 26:14?
Who 'wrote' the book of Acts?
What language was the book of Acts originally written in?
Is then the words of the LORD (Jesus) in Act. 26:14 a translation from one language to another?
Are those translated words the words of the LORD (Jesus)?
Are those translated words in Act. 26:14 preserved to this day?
Are those words in the preserved Word of God, the Holy Bible, the AV?
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Yes, the AV has been around for a long time.
But the Word of God has been around for a lot longer, and the AV was not the first Bible, nor even the first to be written in English.
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Words/Phrases that occur in the entire King James Bible and how many times they occur. This can only be done in the King James Bible!
6 man, beast, Romans the 6th book "is truth", "the sixth day", "sixth hour", "bear fruit", "unto my name", "heavenly Father", "teacher", "mortal", "every creature", "imaginations", "evil heart", "evil thing", lasciviousness", "disobedience", "bondman", "cord", "division", "battles", "sword of the LORD", "one spirit", "heel", "knee", "warmed", "goodman", "bay", "isle", "rank", "mar", "i know it", "tails", "woollen", "one place", "conceal", "meditation", "it was good", "sorcerers", "Cephas", "Rephaim", "Ariel"
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
7 completion or perfection, 7 colors in the rainbow, Jesus made 7 statements on the cross
"every word", "Holy Spirit", "are one", "fishers", "husbandman", "workmanship", "kinsmen", "peculiar", "worshippers", "in the power of", "the evening and the morning", "principalities", "chief priest", "sincerity", "male and female"
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
49 (7x7) "word of God", "parable", "speech", "witnesses", "most High", "beauty", "friends", "need", "clouds", "prosper", "assembly", "weep", "driven", "decree", "divide", "first day", "the first day", "the famine"
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
66 (6x11) (22x3) books in the Bible, 66 bones in the torso, 66 words in John 1, 66 chapters in Isaiah "in the earth", "the good", "tents", "the fathers", "comfort", "golden", "walls", "crown", "fool", "Bethel"
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
70 (7x10) Compounded perfection, King David died, Jerusalem destroyed AD, 70 years in Babylon see Jer 25, 29, 70 appointed see Luke 10, Exodus 20 is 70th chapter, it takes 70 hours to read the Bible, "read", "sanctify", "youth", "sorrow", "favour", "king of the"
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
196 (14x14) "Jesus Christ", "son of Man", "certain", "book*"
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
6 man, beast, Romans the 6th book "is truth", "the sixth day", "sixth hour", "bear fruit", "unto my name", "heavenly Father", "teacher", "mortal", "every creature", "imaginations", "evil heart", "evil thing", lasciviousness", "disobedience", "bondman", "cord", "division", "battles", "sword of the LORD", "one spirit", "heel", "knee", "warmed", "goodman", "bay", "isle", "rank", "mar", "i know it", "tails", "woollen", "one place", "conceal", "meditation", "it was good", "sorcerers", "Cephas", "Rephaim", "Ariel"
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
7 completion or perfection, 7 colors in the rainbow, Jesus made 7 statements on the cross
"every word", "Holy Spirit", "are one", "fishers", "husbandman", "workmanship", "kinsmen", "peculiar", "worshippers", "in the power of", "the evening and the morning", "principalities", "chief priest", "sincerity", "male and female"
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
49 (7x7) "word of God", "parable", "speech", "witnesses", "most High", "beauty", "friends", "need", "clouds", "prosper", "assembly", "weep", "driven", "decree", "divide", "first day", "the first day", "the famine"
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
66 (6x11) (22x3) books in the Bible, 66 bones in the torso, 66 words in John 1, 66 chapters in Isaiah "in the earth", "the good", "tents", "the fathers", "comfort", "golden", "walls", "crown", "fool", "Bethel"
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
70 (7x10) Compounded perfection, King David died, Jerusalem destroyed AD, 70 years in Babylon see Jer 25, 29, 70 appointed see Luke 10, Exodus 20 is 70th chapter, it takes 70 hours to read the Bible, "read", "sanctify", "youth", "sorrow", "favour", "king of the"
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
196 (14x14) "Jesus Christ", "son of Man", "certain", "book*"
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
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The Ark Hive Mind
The Ark Hive
Yes brother I already know and agree. The AV, which is in my hands, is the preserved word of God in English today.
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DeaconDean
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Your acceptance of Mark 16:16.
That single passage contradicts everything Jesus said.
It contradicts 66% (Paul's epistles).
For, it adds a condition to salvation. Namely, baptism. The formula to us, according to Mk. 16:16 is:
Believing plus baptism equals salvation.
And that is exactly what Mk. 16:16 teaches.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" (beliving plus baptism equals salvation)
I would ask that you show me, from John Gill, Charles Hodge, Archabald Hodge, B.B. Warfield, James P. Boyce, John L. Dagg, or any other Protestant/Baptist theologian, teaches us that to be saved, you must be baptized also.
From 1742 until today, NO BAPTIST C.o.F. teaches or even says that.
Fundamentalists said it best:
"Faith is a vital principle. "If it hath not works, is dead, being alone" (James 2:17,18). Two things are required of the believer, immediately upon his profession of faith in Jesus as Saviour and Lord, namely, verbal confession and water baptism. "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Romans 10:10. See also Psalm 107:2; Matthew 10:32,33; Romans 10:9; 1 John 4:15, etc.) "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). The believer is not saved because he is baptized; but, baptized because he is saved. We are saved through faith alone, but not the faith that is alone, because "Faith without works is dead, being alone." Water baptism is a divinely ordained ordinance whereby the believer witnesses to the world that he died with Christ, and is risen together with Him," an habitation of God through the Spirit. (See Matthew 28:19,20; Acts 2:38,41; 8:12,13,16,36,38; 9:18; 10:47,48; 16:15,33; 19:5; 22:15,16; Romans 6:3,4; Colossians 2:12; 1 Peter 3:21; 1 John 2:3; 3:22).
The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth, Book III, Theology, Chapter 12, The Doctrines that Must be Emphasized in Successful Evangelism, By Evangelist L.W. Munhall, M.A., D.D
Here is a partial list of men including baptists who were also Fundamentalists:
John Nelson Darby
Dwight L. Moody
Charles Hodge (President of Princeton University Divinity)
Archibald Alexander Hodge (Charles Hodge's son)
Benjamin B. Warfield
Edward Y. Mullins (You may remember him as the first President of the SBC and signer of the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message)
William B. Riley
Louis S Chafer (President of Dallas Theological Seminary)
J. Gresham Macham
Former President U.S. Grant
Harry Emerson Fosdick
Baptist editor Curtis Lee Laws
Bob Jones, Sr.
Carl Mclntire
J. Frank Norris
C.I. Scofield
Carl F.H. Henry
J.I. Packer
Francis Schaeffer
Just to name a few.
In 1742, 24 years before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, Baptists said this:
Of Baptism
In 1833, they said:
Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper:
James P. Boyce wrote in 1858:
XV: Baptism
In 1925, Baptist (specifically So. Baptists) said:
13. BAPTISM AND THE LORD'S SUPPER
And to the best of my knowledge, those positions have not changed.
In fact, can you tell me what John L Dagg said, one of the very first widely recognized Baptist theologians said concerning "baptism"?
So please, feel free to prove me wrong.
God Bless
Till all are one.
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DeaconDean
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That interesting. Wasn't it also John Burgon who said:
"As to Eusebius’s comments concerning the ending of Mark found in Quaestiones ad Marinum, he does quote someone as saying that after 16:8 “in almost all copies of the Gospel according to Mark, comes the end.” Yet he also states that 16:9–20 is “not met with in all the copies of Mark’s Gospel” and that 16:9–20 is “met with seldom, in some copies, certainly not in all” (John William Burgon, The Last Twelve Verses of the Gospel according to S. Mark [Ann Arbor, MI: Sovereign Grace Book Club, 1959], 122–24; Farmer, Last Twelve Verses, 4; for the Greek text, see PG 22:937)."
Ibid
Actually, I have. And have both works saved on a disk. Does not mean I agree with them.
Now I respect Dr. Robinson, but since when is he the authority?
The very same Dr. Robinson who argues for the Byzantine Priority?
New Testament Textual Criticism: The Case for Byzantine Priority, Maurice Robinson
You cite two references, I can cite a dozen others who disagree with your position.
God Bless
Till all are one.
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DeaconDean
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Again, I would like for any one of you KJVO advocates to tell me how when the Greek uses the word "pneuma" (wind/spirit) how you can translate it out as "phantasm" (ghost).
God Bless
Till all are one.
God Bless
Till all are one.
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Actually, everyone in 1611 in England (actually, only educated people as there were a lot of dialects of English being spoken in England at the time) spoke just like the translation of the Bible that was authorized by King James. What you hold today in your hands is not the Authorized Version of 1611, but a facsimile of it which was revised several times in efforts to eliminate misunderstandings as English evolved over time.
You need to decide whether or not you actually believe the translation which was authorized in 1611 is the authentic King James Bible or the revisions of that translation are the true and authentic King James Bible.
That still begs the question concerning the lost heathen of the world who don't understand a word of English. Can they be Christians without the KJV?
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TCassidy
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Yes. What's your point?
Since he got his Ph.D. in New Testament Greek and Textual Criticism? And taught the same for 40 years at some of the best seminaries in the country? And edited the most accurate Greek New Testament available today?
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TCassidy
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I read an interesting article some years ago (I will look for it to get the particulars) that said one of the translators (I think it may have been Reynolds) who wrote that the reason the translators used both "Spirit" and "Ghost" when translating πνευμα was that "Spirit" was used when addressing the power of the Holy Spirit and "Ghost" was used when addressing the personal ministry of the Holy Spirit. But even then that "rule" (if it existed) can be demonstrated to have not been consistently applied. Also bear in mind that "ghost" was a form of Old/Middle English "gast" meaning "spirit." The related English word in use today is "ghastly" from the same Old/Middle English "gast." (The "h" was probably added by William Caxton sometime around 1480, possibly influenced by the Flemish "gheest" as he spent much of his early adulthood in Bruges in West Flanders which is now part of Belgium.)
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