Why doesn't God just tell us which denomination is right?

BobRyan

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the only thing scripture says is that we shouldn't be divisive.

there is no mention of denominations or which one is right.

Matt 10 "do not think I came to bring peace -- I did not come to bring peace but rather a sword..."

God literally shouted from the sky telling millions their religion... dictated by Himself

Exodus 13:21
The Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

1. "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4
2. "to the Jew FIRST and also to the gentile" Romans 2
3. " what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God" Romans 3
4. ALL the saints in Hebrews 11 are Jews starting with Abraham



Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.
 
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BobRyan

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As is eminently obvious, ... the answer to that depends upon who you ask ...

And you could say the same for those Jews who lived at the time of Christ or the Samaritans vs the Jews or the nations around Israel at Sinai - vs God shouting right out of the sky -- the doctrines of the true religion - to the people of Israel at the foot of Sinai.
 
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Albion

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If I may add to those thoughts, what the Bible further says is that Christ started his church and expected it to be sustained by the people--the household of faith--who believe. That does not sound like a commentary on which denomination is right.
 
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BobRyan

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If I may add to those thoughts, what the Bible further says is that Christ started his church and expected it to be sustained by the people--the household of faith--who believe. That does not sound like a commentary on which denomination is right.

It does not sound like Christ "not telling the Christian church that it had the right doctrine or that it was not the right religion". In fact he was doing that very thing and John claimed that God the Holy Spirit was pointing specifically to Christ as the "right" Messiah.

Which is the point.

Irrefutable.


Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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Matt 10 "do not think I came to bring peace -- I did not come to bring peace but rather a sword..."

God literally shouted from the sky telling millions their religion... dictated by Himself

Exodus 13:21
The Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

1. "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4
2. "to the Jew FIRST and also to the gentile" Romans 2
3. " what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God" Romans 3
4. ALL the saints in Hebrews 11 are Jews starting with Abraham



Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.

now where in any of this that you wrote did you find the answer to the OPs question of which denomination was the correct one?
 
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BobRyan

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Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.[/QUOTE]
now where in any of this that you wrote did you find the answer to the OPs question of which denomination was the correct one?

The OP does not ask "which one is the right one"

The OP asks if we all agree that it would be helpful if God told us
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.


The OP does not ask "which one is the right one"

The OP asks if we all agree that it would be helpful if God told us

it would, but He didn't..
 
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OzSpen

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Seems like it would help us out a lot if God told everybody, "The Calvinists are right" (Or whichever denomination).

So many false teachings would be disproven in an instant, everybody would know which Church best aligns with God & His word...

So why not?

Alex,

That would make us robots who are subject to the 'Christian' dictator who is always correct!

However, God has given us free will to:
  • 'Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15 NIV);
  • 'Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true' (Acts 17:11 NIV);
  • 'This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith' (Titus 1:13 NIV).
I consider that one of the major difficulties for this to happen calmly and with peace in the body of Christ is that when people are disciplined for false doctrine or different teaching, they go off and start another fellowship to agree with their kinds of teachings.

There are other free-will spin off benefits. I like to reject eating brussel sprouts and choose lettuce and tomato.
Oz
 
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Strong in Him

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Strong in Him, I am apologizing in the below as well as clarifying. I am sorry I jumped to wrong conclusions about your character. Please forgive me. Seems some misunderstanding was at work.

Thank you for your gracious reply. I'm sure the fault was mine, and starting over is a great idea.

I wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring you. I will try to reply to the points in your post soon, but things are rather busy at the moment.
But just briefly;
Salvation cannot be found in Judaism. God is still speaking, and ministering, to the Jews, but if a Jew were to say "let me show you how to have eternal life" without teaching about Jesus, they would be wrong.
I didn't intend to imply that Judaism, or any religion that bypasses Jesus, can save; nor can keeping the Mosaic law. I disagree that God has left Judaism - because he can still minister to them - but salvation cannot be found in keeping the Jewish religion.

PS The only reason I have not quoted your post in full is to save space and because I am not replying to all of it. :)
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Thank you for your gracious reply. I'm sure the fault was mine, and starting over is a great idea.

I wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring you. I will try to reply to the points in your post soon, but things are rather busy at the moment.
But just briefly;
Salvation cannot be found in Judaism. God is still speaking, and ministering, to the Jews, but if a Jew were to say "let me show you how to have eternal life" without teaching about Jesus, they would be wrong.
I didn't intend to imply that Judaism, or any religion that bypasses Jesus, can save; nor can keeping the Mosaic law. I disagree that God has left Judaism - because he can still minister to them - but salvation cannot be found in keeping the Jewish religion.

PS The only reason I have not quoted your post in full is to save space and because I am not replying to all of it. :)
Thanks for your gracious response. I can write a bit today but might be off for some days because I too am quite busy. Now I agree with the above except God leaving Judaism. I think that God is reaching Jews the same as reaching Muslims (who seem to have a better track record of him reaching them than the Jews judging by testimonies.) For me, if God is still in Judaism, then one can find relationship with God inside of Judaism alone and that means Christ is unnecessary. But maybe we define this differently. I do not see God leaving Judaism (not the people but the system of religion) as leaving the Jewish people. I do not see God leaving any people. I see God leaving Judaism as He is no longer to be found within its practices. He can still minister to them calling them to him, but they will have to accept the Messiah. But this is true for Hindus and Muslims as well. For me, if God is there, then God can be found there and the "there" in Judaism is without Christ. I think you think "God leaving Judaism" as abandoning the people and never speaking to them or reaching that. That is not what I see "God there" or God leaving" to be associated with. Do you see what I mean?
 
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Strong in Him

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Thanks for your gracious response. I can write a bit today but might be off for some days because I too am quite busy. Now I agree with the above except God leaving Judaism. I think that God is reaching Jews the same as reaching Muslims (who seem to have a better track record of him reaching them than the Jews judging by testimonies.) For me, if God is still in Judaism, then one can find relationship with God inside of Judaism alone and that means Christ is unnecessary. But maybe we define this differently. I do not see God leaving Judaism (not the people but the system of religion) as leaving the Jewish people. I do not see God leaving any people. I see God leaving Judaism as He is no longer to be found within its practices. He can still minister to them calling them to him, but they will have to accept the Messiah. But this is true for Hindus and Muslims as well. For me, if God is there, then God can be found there and the "there" in Judaism is without Christ. I think you think "God leaving Judaism" as abandoning the people and never speaking to them or reaching that. That is not what I see "God there" or God leaving" to be associated with. Do you see what I mean?

Ah yes; thanks for that. I think I'm a bit slow sometimes.
Yes, I agree that people are very unlikely to find Christ through following the laws/practices of the Jewish religion, because they deny him as the Messiah and, I believe, don't even like to mention his name. Judaism doesn't save.
I do agree that God has not left the Jewish people, and I dare say could minister/speak to them through the OT prophecies so that they question and seek for themselves.

May God bless you
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Ah yes; thanks for that. I think I'm a bit slow sometimes.
Yes, I agree that people are very unlikely to find Christ through following the laws/practices of the Jewish religion, because they deny him as the Messiah and, I believe, don't even like to mention his name. Judaism doesn't save.
I do agree that God has not left the Jewish people, and I dare say could minister/speak to them through the OT prophecies so that they question and seek for themselves.

May God bless you
I would assume that those Jews who read the OT and want to know God and pursue Him intently, they will not fail to find Him as long as they yield to the truth that Jesus is the Messiah.
 
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A_Thinker

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Taking the simplest example -- one debate over religions went like this.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.

And the ultimate outcome of that debate was this ...

John 4

21 Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 
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BobRyan

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And the ultimate outcome of that debate was this ...

John 4

21 Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What He did not say is "your worship of what you don't know does not matter".

He told her that "salvation is of the jews" and in so doing - informed her that clinging to a stubborn rejection of the fact that God had setup the Jews and Jerusalem and that it was from them that the Messiah would come - she would not have salvation.

There is no such thing as "worship God in Spirit and in Truth" while stubbornly rejecting Truth or "Worship God in spirit but not in Truth".

John 17:17 "sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy WORD is Truth"

In vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrine the "Commandments of men" - Mark 7:6-13
 
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A_Thinker

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He told her that "salvation is of the jews" and in so doing - informed her that clinging to a stubborn rejection of the fact that God had setup the Jews and Jerusalem and that it was from them that the Messiah would come - she would not have salvation.

That's not what was going on here. She was not stubbornly rejecting the fact that God would bring salvation through the Jews. She had, simply, been taught to worship in the mountain by her forefathers. She, OTOH, knew about the Messiah, and that He would bring truth when He came.

Jesus told her that he was this Messiah ... and she believed HIM. Salvation is in HIM/JESUS.

25 The woman said unto him, I know that Messiah comes, who is called Christ: when he comes, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus said unto her, I that speak unto you am he.

...

28 The woman then left her water pot, and went her way into the city, and said to the men,

29 Come, see a man, who told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

...

39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, who testified, He told me all that ever I did.

40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.

41And many more believed because of his own word;

42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of your saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.

You can be as Jewish as you want to be ... but if you don't have Jesus, you don't have salvation. OTOH, even if JESUS is the only thing you have, you are saved.

1 John 5

11 And this is the witness, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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What He did not say is "your worship of what you don't know does not matter".

He told her that "salvation is of the jews" and in so doing - informed her that clinging to a stubborn rejection of the fact that God had setup the Jews and Jerusalem and that it was from them that the Messiah would come - she would not have salvation.

There is no such thing as "worship God in Spirit and in Truth" while stubbornly rejecting Truth or "Worship God in spirit but not in Truth".

John 17:17 "sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy WORD is Truth"

In vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrine the "Commandments of men" - Mark 7:6-13
What is rather ironic is that the "they" Jesus was refering to in that sentence are......................the Jews. That is right, the Jews. He was not saying the Samaritans were worshipping in vain. He was not saying the Greeks were doing so. Nope. None other than the Jews. And not only that, he was said Isaiah had prophesied about this. So there you have it. The JEWS were worshipping God IN VAIN!!
 
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Monk Brendan

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And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

But that doesn't answer MY question. Quoting Scripture can be tricky. For instance, how do you KNOW that the Remnant is NOT the Catholic-Orthodox Church? You can quote Scripture all you want, but there is no way that you can PROVE that the Catholic-Orthodox Churches is the anti-Christ's church, or that the Reformation churches are the one True Church that God ordained to be the perfect church that He wants every one to attend.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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But that doesn't answer MY question. Quoting Scripture can be tricky. For instance, how do you KNOW that the Remnant is NOT the Catholic-Orthodox Church? You can quote Scripture all you want, but there is no way that you can PROVE that the Catholic-Orthodox Churches is the anti-Christ's church, or that the Reformation churches are the one True Church that God ordained to be the perfect church that He wants every one to attend.
It is so much more satisfying to realize that all of that is over and now history.
 
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