What is Man and Where Does He Go?

Butch5

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I will ask you what Jesus asked Martha. Do you believe those who believe in Him will never die?

That's not exactly what He said. Look at it in context.

21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. (Jn. 11:21-27 KJV)

Firstly, Lazarus had died. Then Jesus tells her that Lazarus will rise again. So, the context here is the resurrection. Martha says her brother will rise again in the resurrection and Jesus says He is the resurrection. So we can see that this about the resurrection. However, notice what Jesus said, "he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." He that believes in Jesus, though he were dead, yet shall he live. So, He talking about some who has died and will live again. He's speaking about someone who has been raised from the dead. Then He says, "whosoever liveth" this is the one who has been raised from the dead. If this one believes in Jesus he shall never die. The statement, "he shall never die" is talking about a resurrected believer. Once a believer is resurrected he shall never die. However, this same person did die before he was raised. Jesus isn't saying if a person believes he will never die. We know that Christians die. That can be easily seen. So, He obviously can't be saying that believers don't die. Everyone good or evil will be raised from the dead. The believers will receive everlasting life, they will never die. However, the those who don't will die again in the Lake of Fire, the second death.
 
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Butch5

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Sure, I have established a man lives apart from the body.
The thief next to Christ on the cross died physically as did Christ.
They both went together to paradise as spirits having departed the body.
In paradise there is conscious life after physical death, but no body yet, that waits till the resurrection.

Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

2 Corinthians 12:4
was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Revelation 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

And also Steven murdered, departed this life and was received in heaven.

Acts 7:59
59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

You haven't established your premise from Scripture. As I've pointed out your reasoning is a logical fallacy. You come to the Scriptures with the idea that man is a spirit and can live apart from the body. Then you post these passage where you believe man is a spirit and can live apart from the body. That's Circular Reasoning or Begging the Question. It's flawed reasoning

Firstly, before you can claim that Jesus and the thief were alive in Paradise you have to prove that it's possible for a man to live apart from the body. You haven't done that I've actually shown that that isn't possible and you haven't addressed that either. Secondly, there was no punctuation in the original texts. When you see punctuation in your Bible it's simple what a translator "thinks" should be there. If you simply move the comma from before today to after today, the passage reads quite differently.

And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise." (Lk. 23:43 NKJ)

Notice how moving the comma changes the sentence entirely? Another thing to note is that even if Jesus and the thief were going to be in Paradise that day. The passage doesn't say they'll be alive there.

Another point to note is that Paradise means a garden. In the LXX Eden is called a paradise. Are you suggesting that there is a garden somewhere in the center of the earth? Another point is that the context doesn't support you interpretation. The thief didn't ask Jesus where he'd be later that afternoon. The thief wanted to know that he'd be in the kingdom with Jesus. If Paradise is someplace in the earth then the thief's question went unanswered. However, if Paradise is the kingdom then Jesus did answer the thief's request. You even posted Rev 2:7 which is about believers having access to the Tree of Life which is in the Paradise of God. Surely that's not in the center of the earth somewhere. No, it's in Kingdom. There is no place in the earth where dead people who are alive go that is called paradise. Really, look at the sentence, 'dead people who are alive." That's a logical contradiction. Why not just believe what the Bible says, people die.
 
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EmSw

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That's not exactly what He said. Look at it in context.

21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. (Jn. 11:21-27 KJV)

Firstly, Lazarus had died. Then Jesus tells her that Lazarus will rise again. So, the context here is the resurrection. Martha says her brother will rise again in the resurrection and Jesus says He is the resurrection. So we can see that this about the resurrection. However, notice what Jesus said, "he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." He that believes in Jesus, though he were dead, yet shall he live. So, He talking about some who has died and will live again. He's speaking about someone who has been raised from the dead. Then He says, "whosoever liveth" this is the one who has been raised from the dead. If this one believes in Jesus he shall never die. The statement, "he shall never die" is talking about a resurrected believer. Once a believer is resurrected he shall never die. However, this same person did die before he was raised. Jesus isn't saying if a person believes he will never die. We know that Christians die. That can be easily seen. So, He obviously can't be saying that believers don't die. Everyone good or evil will be raised from the dead. The believers will receive everlasting life, they will never die. However, the those who don't will die again in the Lake of Fire, the second death.

Actually, it says, 'And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.' It's talking about the living, not the dead. It doesn't say, whosoever is resurrected and believes in me shall never die'.

What happens to a man who dies? Does he become non-existent? Does he float around the air?
 
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Butch5

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Actually, it says, 'And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.' It's talking about the living, not the dead. It doesn't say, whosoever is resurrected and believes in me shall never die'.

What happens to a man who dies? Does he become non-existent? Does he float around the air?

It does. Read the sentence before this one together with it.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn. 11:25-26 KJV)

He who believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosover lives and believes in me shall never die. Follow the sequence from the beginning. The person dies and is resurrected and then he shall never die.

I've already stated what happens to a man when he dies. The breath of God returns to Him and the man, the body, returns to the dust.
 
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EmSw

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It does. Read the sentence before this one together with it.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn. 11:25-26 KJV)

He who believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosover lives and believes in me shall never die. Follow the sequence from the beginning. The person dies and is resurrected and then he shall never die.

I've already stated what happens to a man when he dies. The breath of God returns to Him and the man, the body, returns to the dust.

Butch, you can believe as you wish. I have no problem with it. If Heaven isn't your cup of tea, drink from the cup before you. I only pray you live a life of charity, that is, love to the Lord and love to the neighbor.
 
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Butch5

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Butch, you can believe as you wish. I have no problem with it. If Heaven isn't your cup of tea, drink from the cup before you. I only pray you live a life of charity, that is, love to the Lord and love to the neighbor.

Thanks! I hope the same for you. You see, my goal is just to find out what the Scriptures teach. There's a lot of erroneous teaching in churches today, not mention among theologians. I don't thin a lot people consider what has happened to the faith over 2000 years. Remember, the Catholic Church had almost sole authority in the west for about a thousand years. There were a few splinter groups, but for the most part the Catholic Church determined what was taught. The Catholic Church claimed to be the authority in church matters and their interpretation was the only one allowed. If one disagreed they were banished or worse. If we look at church history we can see where a lot of the Catholic doctrines entered the church. This went on for about a thousand years. Then in the 1500's Martin Luther saw the errors of the Catholic Church and presented his 95 thesis. This set off the Reformation. While the Reformers did correct some of the errors of the Catholic Church, they didn't correct them all. Not only that, but they also brought some new errors to the faith. So we have about 1700 years of people adding things to the faith. So, the question is how do we get back to the original faith? How do we get rid of all of this extra baggage that isn't found in the Scriptures? We have to go back to the beginning and see what the very first teachings of the church were.

Then, to that we add the fact that most Christians don't have a good grasp of the historical setting in which the Scriptures were written. What were the issues that Paul dealt with in his ministry? What about John? Today people read their writings and just interpret them with a 21st century understanding. They don't look at what was happening when these words were written and what the issues are that were being addressed.

Another problem, I believe is the addition of chapter and verse numbers. Because of this Christians have been taught to just grab a sentence out of context to support whatever it is they are trying to support. With chapter and verse numbers people no longer read the context of what passages are talking about. Look at the statement of faith churches or even this forum and often you'll see what they believe with Chapter and verse numbers listed beside what they believe. Every sentence in the Scriptures is part of a larger narrative. They're not a bunch of disconnected sentences, like a verse for the day.

If you did a study of what was first taught in the early churches, you'd be surprised at how much of today's teaching is absent from what they taught. You'd also find that some of what is believed today they rejected as heresy. In the end, we need to try to weed out all of the error and get back to the faith as it was taught by Jesus and the apostle. Some of the early church writers were actually taught by the apostles and they'be left writings behind that are available and are a goldmine for understanding what was first taught.
 
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EmSw

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Another problem, I believe is the addition of chapter and verse numbers. Because of this Christians have been taught to just grab a sentence out of context to support whatever it is they are trying to support. With chapter and verse numbers people no longer read the context of what passages are talking about. Look at the statement of faith churches or even this forum and often you'll see what they believe with Chapter and verse numbers listed beside what they believe. Every sentence in the Scriptures is part of a larger narrative. They're not a bunch of disconnected sentences, like a verse for the day.

I can see your point here. But then again, if you read that small part in the Psalms, you might have a partially different view. Oh, and the small part in Revelation is very important too. :smile:
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Plus also Jesus told a thief on the cross beside him who asked for mercy that "This day you'll be with me in paradise" Luke 23

Problem here as Jesus told Mary to not touch him as he had yet ascended to his father. Jesus was telling the thief today, I say to you you will be with me in Heaven.
 
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sdowney717

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You haven't established your premise from Scripture. As I've pointed out your reasoning is a logical fallacy. You come to the Scriptures with the idea that man is a spirit and can live apart from the body. Then you post these passage where you believe man is a spirit and can live apart from the body. That's Circular Reasoning or Begging the Question. It's flawed reasoning

Firstly, before you can claim that Jesus and the thief were alive in Paradise you have to prove that it's possible for a man to live apart from the body. You haven't done that I've actually shown that that isn't possible and you haven't addressed that either. Secondly, there was no punctuation in the original texts. When you see punctuation in your Bible it's simple what a translator "thinks" should be there. If you simply move the comma from before today to after today, the passage reads quite differently.

And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise." (Lk. 23:43 NKJ)

Notice how moving the comma changes the sentence entirely? Another thing to note is that even if Jesus and the thief were going to be in Paradise that day. The passage doesn't say they'll be alive there.

Another point to note is that Paradise means a garden. In the LXX Eden is called a paradise. Are you suggesting that there is a garden somewhere in the center of the earth? Another point is that the context doesn't support you interpretation. The thief didn't ask Jesus where he'd be later that afternoon. The thief wanted to know that he'd be in the kingdom with Jesus. If Paradise is someplace in the earth then the thief's question went unanswered. However, if Paradise is the kingdom then Jesus did answer the thief's request. You even posted Rev 2:7 which is about believers having access to the Tree of Life which is in the Paradise of God. Surely that's not in the center of the earth somewhere. No, it's in Kingdom. There is no place in the earth where dead people who are alive go that is called paradise. Really, look at the sentence, 'dead people who are alive." That's a logical contradiction. Why not just believe what the Bible says, people die.

During the transfiguration, we have Christ and then Moses and Elijah appear and talk with Him. they were not dead and gone, or soul sleeping. Perfect example of those who had physically died but were able to talk, and this was witnessed by Peter. Moses especially died on the mountain of Nebo.

Deuteronomy 34:1
[ Moses Dies on Mount Nebo ] Then Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which is across from Jericho. And the Lord showed him all the land of Gilead as far as Dan,
Deuteronomy 34:5
So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
Deuteronomy 34:7
Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.
 
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Butch5

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During the transfiguration, we have Christ and then Moses and Elijah appear and talk with Him. they were not dead and gone, or soul sleeping. Perfect example of those who had physically died but were able to talk, and this was witnessed by Peter. Moses especially died on the mountain of Nebo.

Deuteronomy 34:1
[ Moses Dies on Mount Nebo ] Then Moses went up from the plains of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, which is across from Jericho. And the Lord showed him all the land of Gilead as far as Dan,
Deuteronomy 34:5
So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
Deuteronomy 34:7
Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.

You're not dealing with the issues. You're just jumping from passage to passage giving me your understanding of the passages. Your understanding of these passages is incorrect as it contradicts what the Scriptures teach. If you read Mathews account of the Transfiguration you'll find that Jesus called it a vision. Also, it was a vision of the second coming of Christ. Jesus said,

28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt.16:28)

Then we have the account of them seeing the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

NKJ Matthew 17:1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!"
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.
7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, "Arise, and do not be afraid."
8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."(Matt.17:1-9 NKJ)

It's a vision of the second coming. Obviously the second coming didn't actually happen before the He left the first time. Peter confirms that this is the second coming.

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; (2 Pet. 1:16-19 NKJ)

Peter says that what happened was the power and coming of the Lord. Again, Jesus said it was a vision.


 
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sdowney717

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(Matt.17:1-9 NKJ)
You're not dealing with the issues. You're just jumping from passage to passage giving me your understanding of the passages. Your understanding of these passages is incorrect as it contradicts what the Scriptures teach. If you read Mathews account of the Transfiguration you'll find that Jesus called it a vision. Also, it was a vision of the second coming of Christ. Jesus said,

28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt.16:28)

Then we have the account of them seeing the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

NKJ Matthew 17:1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;
2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!"
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.
7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, "Arise, and do not be afraid."
8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."(Matt.17:1-9 NKJ)

It's a vision of the second coming. Obviously the second coming didn't actually happen before the He left the first time. Peter confirms that this is the second coming.

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; (2 Pet. 1:16-19 NKJ)

Peter says that what happened was the power and coming of the Lord. Again, Jesus said it was a vision.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Simply, word translated 'vision' is horama. meaning, 'that which is seen, spectacle'

Henece Peter and the others witnessed a look into a spiritual reality.
It was real. Other visions are also real, like when the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision, it really occurred, the Lord speaking to Paul.

Moses also witnessed the burning bush, and it actually was real, the word used 'sight' is the same exact root word horama.
Act 7:31

When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: G3705 and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

copyChkboxOff.gif
Act 18:9

Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, G3705Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
 
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sdowney717

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John 5, v24, Those who have life given to them by the Son, have passed from death to life. So no, a man who has this eternal life does not cease to exist at their physical death. Ceasing to exist is not life. They do not possess this life at some future judgement, they have it right now.

21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
 
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Butch5

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Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Simply, word translated 'vision' is horama. meaning, 'that which is seen, spectacle'

Henece Peter and the others witnessed a look into a spiritual reality.
It was real. Other visions are also real, like when the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision, it really occurred, the Lord speaking to Paul.

Moses also witnessed the burning bush, and it actually was real, the word used 'sight' is the same exact root word horama.
Act 7:31

When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: G3705 and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

copyChkboxOff.gif
Act 18:9

Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, G3705Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

Sure it was real, it was vision. However that doesn't mean what they saw was actually happening that moment. A dream is real too. However, what happens in a dream isn't occurring in reality.

You're just grabbing a piece of evidence to try to make your claim and ignoring the mountain of evidence against what you claim. As I said, I've established from Scripture what a man is. You've not engaged that at all. You claim that man is a spirit and yet you've not given anything from Scripture that teaches that man is a spirit. Your interpretation of the passage runs counter to common sense. In the vision Moses and Elijah are said to appear in glory with Jesus. That terminology is used of Jesus' resurrected state. So, your interpretation would have Moses and Elijah resurrected before Jesus even died. Yet, Paul said that Christ is the first fruits from the dead. Secondly, Jesus had said that some of them standing there would not die until they saw the kingdom coming with power.

28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28 NKJ)

So, the Transfiguration was the coming of Christ in His kingdom. That's the second coming. That obviously couldn't take place before Christ left the first time. It didn't take place before the Crucifixion. What they saw was a vision of the future. Just like John in Revelation saw a vision of the future.
 
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Butch5

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John 5, v24, Those who have life given to them by the Son, have passed from death to life. So no, a man who has this eternal life does not cease to exist at their physical death. Ceasing to exist is not life. They do not possess this life at some future judgement, they have it right now.

21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

As I said, you're just jumping from passage to passage ignoring everything that proves you wrong.
 
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Butch5

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I want to go back to this passage in Ezekiel

1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. (Ezek. 37:1-14 KJV)

As I said, the words in red are all the same Hebrew word, ruach. When a Hebrew reader would read this passage they would only see one word for these words in red. However, we see that in the English translation we have three different words all translated from one Hebrew word. The problem is that the English words all have different meanings. Wind and breath are similar as they are both a movement of air. However, the English word spirit doesn't mean an movement of air. So what we have here is translator bias. The translators are actually imposing their theological beliefs on the passage. Not only that but because they used the word spirit in verse 14 the connection to Genesis 2 is missed. There is no reason not to translate every occurrence of ruach in this passage as breath. If they had, the reader could easily see that God was going to put His breath into them and they would live. The reader could also see the connect between what happens here and what happened in Genesis 2:7. We have this same problem with the word soul. Translators translate the word soul with quite a few different English words. This hides the word soul from the reader because he doesn't know that the different words he's reading in English are really a single word in Hebrew and Greek.
 
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sdowney717

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I want to go back to this passage in Ezekiel

1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. (Ezek. 37:1-14 KJV)

As I said, the words in red are all the same Hebrew word, ruach. When a Hebrew reader would read this passage they would only see one word for these words in red. However, we see that in the English translation we have three different words all translated from one Hebrew word. The problem is that the English words all have different meanings. Wind and breath are similar as they are both a movement of air. However, the English word spirit doesn't mean an movement of air. So what we have here is translator bias. The translators are actually imposing their theological beliefs on the passage. Not only that but because they used the word spirit in verse 14 the connection to Genesis 2 is missed. There is no reason not to translate every occurrence of ruach in this passage as breath. If they had, the reader could easily see that God was going to put His breath into them and they would live. The reader could also see the connect between what happens here and what happened in Genesis 2:7. We have this same problem with the word soul. Translators translate the word soul with quite a few different English words. This hides the word soul from the reader because he doesn't know that the different words he's reading in English are really a single word in Hebrew and Greek.
Sorry but you are so wrong.
Jesus said believers in Him shall NEVER DIE. To simply cease to exist is a type of death, a non existence. And whatever is born of God OVERCOMES the world of sin and death, as Apostle John teaches. So there is no death, no ceasing to exist. Jesus asks the women if she actually believes Christ is the LIFE. So this is important.

John 11:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
 
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