Did you change your mind?Indeed the parables are explained in other parts of scripture as to what they are referring to.
Thanks for sharing.
bugkiller
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Did you change your mind?Indeed the parables are explained in other parts of scripture as to what they are referring to.
Thanks for sharing.
What I do not understand is how your post makes you correct. You can not win by discussion so you try to win by frustrating another. That dose not mean you are correct.You are welcome to say whatever you wish but the scriptures in Hebrews 9:23-25 do not teach that the day of atonement has started.
I have also never denied that Hebrews discusses the day of atonement but not in the context and interpretation you have provided.
That is why the context and topic of conversation was post for Hebrews 9 in post # 489 which discusses all of these scriptures in a bit more detail.
So what SDA people adhere to is their salvation is not secure.We see in 1847 James White still not holding to an IJ, noting it is not in fact necessary to give the sentence in advance.
It is not necessary that the final sentence should be given before the first resurrection, as some have taught; for the names of the saints are written in heaven, and Jesus, and the angels will certainly know who to raise, and gather to the New Jerusalem. "A Word to the Little Flock"
This also rules out the notion that Daniel 8 points to the restoration of "truth" about the sanctuary in 1844. The prophecy of Daniel 8 is about the activity of the little horn against the sanctuary. And the question asked is until when....will these things happen. After 2,300 days the activities are to stop.
However, nothing changed about the papacy, who the Adventists identify as the little horn, in 1844.
Also, the notion that the "truth" was restored about the sanctuary in 1844 is not accurate either. They did not hold the the investigative judgment view for some time.So even by Adventists standards, they did not figure it out in 1844.
In fact, in 1844 they thought they door was shut, and that no one could come to Christ after that point.
So Christ had only completed one part of His work as our intercessor, to enter upon another portion of the work, and He still pleaded His blood before the Father in behalf of sinners.
This subject was not understood by Adventists in 1844. After the passing of the time when the Saviour was expected, they still believed His coming to be near; they held that they had reached an important crisis and that the work of Christ as man's intercessor before God had ceased. It appeared to them to be taught in the Bible that man's probation would close a short time before the actual coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven. This seemed evident from those scriptures which point to a time when men will seek, knock, and cry at the door of mercy, and it will not be opened. And it was a question with them whether the date to which they had looked for the coming of Christ might not rather mark the beginning of this period which was immediately to precede His coming. Having given the warning of the judgment near, they felt that their work for the world was done, and they lost their burden of soul for the salvation of sinners, while the bold and blasphemous scoffing of the ungodly seemed to them another evidence that the Spirit of God had been withdrawn from the rejecters of His mercy. All this confirmed them in the belief that probation had ended, or, as they then expressed it, "the door of mercy was shut." GC chapter 24
This was not a restoration of any truth. This was an excuse for believing the false message of William Miller.
No, I am asking you to explain your application of the type. So you admit the selection happened before. We will add that to the list of things you admit happened before 1844.
So you admit selection ahead
you admit death ahead
you admit entry into the sanctuary ahead
you admit entry into God's presence ahead.
You have basically admitted everything the high priest did IN THE TYPE, up until the point he left the sanctuary and performed the scape goat portion.
Since I think LGW and I have gotten to the point where we are repeating, I will address the more general audience apart from responding to LGW for the moment. Now, while LGW may not read Ellen White, the church still considers her writings to be inspired. So for those reading along I will reference her views as normative for Adventist thought.....
But then she adds to the type, indicating the IJ. Instead of the priest performing a cleansing of sin, He is now doing the additional task of an investigative judgment, no where pictured in the type.
And she does in fact indicate that she views the investigative judgment as part of the Day of Atonement type.
Sorry tall, it rules out nothing the scripture is very plain here. Let's look at it.This also rules out the notion that Daniel 8 points to the restoration of "truth" about the sanctuary in 1844. The prophecy of Daniel 8 is about the activity of the little horn against the sanctuary. And the question asked is until when....will these things happen. After 2,300 days the activities are to stop.
Why should it need to? It is the begining of the cleaning of the Sanctuary, God's great day of atonement in the Heavenly Sanctuary, the begining of the investigative judgment.However, nothing changed about the papacy, who the Adventists identify as the little horn, in 1844.
I certainly agree with you reading only the Bible, instead of Ellen White. However, if you have any interaction with a Seventh-day Adventist church (at least, not an overly liberal one) you will be getting Ellen White's viewpoints directed towards you through direct quotes, or indirect reference.
Indeed but that is not the same as saying that she indicates that the investigative judgment is part of the ordinances contained in the day of atonement. The investigative judgment is the work of God while the services in the Sanctuary are the role of the Priest. In the heavenly Jesus is both High Priest, God and King. As highlighted in the scriptures earlier...
Sorry tall, it rules out nothing the scripture is very plain here. Let's look at it.
DANIEL 8:12-14
[12], And a host was given him [little horn] to oppose the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it did this, and prospered.
[13], Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint who spoke, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
[14], And he said unto me, For two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
So yep scriptures pretty clear here that this also results in God's truth being restored. I am not sure why you are posting what old member believed at a beginning of a movement when at latter stages they changed their views to follow and believe the truth of God's Word.
Why should it need to? It is the begining of the cleaning of the Sanctuary, God's great day of atonement in the Heavenly Sanctuary, the begining of the investigative judgment.
DANIEL 7:8-10,
[8], I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
[9], I beheld till the thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and its wheels as burning fire.
[10], A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Apart from your applying the prophecy to something other than what it is about, we have no evidence of anything happening in 1844 other than the Adventists believing a false message that Jesus was coming in 1843, revising it to 1844, and then saying that the proclamation of time in 1843 was a true message.God's truth has been restored since the 2300 day/year prophecy. God's cleansing of the Sanctuary has started.
Once again, I ask Jesus to be my teacher as I seek him through his Word. He promises to guide me into all truth. I do not need others to teach me his Word. This is not to say God cannot use others to teach his Word. But God promises us his Spirit that we will know of the doctrine wheather it is of God or not.
Simply that if you seek God through his Word and claim his promises he will guide you into all truth. We cannot find it of ourselves however because the heavens are higher then the earth. It is a gift of God to however to those who know they cannot reach it but wish to seek him.
It is these who find God when they seach for him with all their heart. It is only as we continue like this, seeking Jesus by believing and following his Word that we are his disciples.
It is these who Jesus promises will know the truth and the truth will make them free. This is also a part of the New Covenant.
It is only on the Word of God we stand or fall. All choose where they will build either on sand or the rock.
Come judgment day it is the Word of God that will be our judge.
Thanks for your thoughts.
I certainly agree with you reading only the Bible, instead of Ellen White. However, if you have any interaction with a Seventh-day Adventist church (at least, not an overly liberal one) you will be getting Ellen White's viewpoints directed towards you through direct quotes, or indirect reference.
Folks can read. So they can see that she does in fact read it into the Levitical type.
Not suprisingly LGW did not explain Ellen White's deceptive use of I Cor. 4:5 by leaving off the reference to the timing.
Yes, the Adventist church would do well to discard Ellen White altogether and go with God's word and prayer. But they have not done that at this time. And so we still have to quote her from time to time because almost no Adventists would say her position is not that of the church on any given topic.
Apart from your applying the prophecy to something other than what it is about, we have no evidence of anything happening in 1844 other than the Adventists believing a false message that Jesus was coming in 1843, revising it to 1844, and then saying that the proclamation of time in 1843 was a true message.
Miller's message failing to happen indicates he was not speaking for the Lord, per Deut. 18.
And Ellen White saying God was in that message can also be dismissed, because Miller claimed something that was untrue.
And of course Miller's message was date setting which contradicted the Scriptures anyway.
Folks can read. So they can see that she does in fact read it into the Levitical type.
Apart from your applying the prophecy to something other than what it is about, we have no evidence of anything happening in 1844 other than the Adventists believing a false message that Jesus was coming in 1843, revising it to 1844, and then saying that the proclamation of time in 1843 was a true message.
Miller's message failing to happen indicates he was not speaking for the Lord, per Deut. 18.
And Ellen White saying God was in that message can also be dismissed, because Miller claimed something that was untrue.
And of course Miller's message was date setting which contradicted the Scriptures anyway.