There is "one", (a God) that could predict and know everything from beginning to end...?
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Could mean he was "before" creation...?
There are lines and boundaries I will cross, but to say that the Son of God or our chosen God was a created being, that line I just will not cross...
It would have to have been "before any other creation", if you ask me... But, I will not go as far to say that any member of the trinity was "created", I'm just "not gonna go there" or do that...
That would make Jesus, or the Son of God, or God the Son, "equal" with "other created beings" like angels, or Satan, and some might say your like a JW or a Mormon, cause they think that, and might say your not Christian and could get you into trouble on here maybe....
And, just a heads up for you, I would warn you to watch out about going against forum rules, by saying Jesus or the Son of God, or our God was a "created being", there may be some that might take "great offense" to that, and "could" get you in trouble, (just looking out for you)...
God Bless!
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Ok I'm not saying that, I was merely suggesting the possibility based on what you said earlier about Jesus being a sort of gap closer between us and Them.
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I wasn't trying to "threaten" you or anything, not even close, it's just that, I've gotten into trouble on here before, and was just trying to look out for you, I've had to read, and re-read the forum rules very carefully many times, and have had to be very careful, (especially lately, with these ideas) to make careful certainty that I wasn't going against them, is all...
God Bless!
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I understand... I've been in trouble here before too lol
Anyways I feel like I flew a little close to the sun on this thread. My whole perception on how much He knows got fried. Not in a good way. Too much too soon. Idk what to do about it either cuz the bible doesn't exactly talk about this stuff.
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"Not one sparrow falls to the ground (dies) without your Father's knowledge."
All the sparrows in the world, at all times... And beyond that, not just when they fall to the ground or die, but when it finds food, or water, or when each one is born, or where they are (all of them, each of them in the world) or is going to be, and "exactly" what their going to be doing, at or in a particular time and place, at all times and places in their lives... and, he knows this with all the sparrows that would come before and after them, from the very beginning of sparrows existence or creation, or what brought them about, or created, or gave rise to them and their existence, all the way back to the very beginning of "life"... It is the same with human beings...
And all his creations, all the way back to the beginning of creating them, or creating what made them come about, or gave rise to them... He knows it "ALL"... And, "every hair on your head is "numbered"... I find it amusing that he would use the word "numbered" cause deep down, "all" is numbers basically to the Father, and is the "program" I mentioned in the OP...
He knows where every atom, every single quantum particle, or every string is going to be, and what it is going to be doing, and how it is going to affect and influence "everything else", from the very beginning of "all of them" "in the entire universe", from the very beginning of them all... He knows how they are going to affect and make up molecules and cells, and how all that works together with his creation and how it affects and influences all of his creations, at once, and at all times, in all times, (including us and our supposed "free will" decisions) from the very beginning of starting them all, or setting them all in motion...
It's all a "program" to him, and he knows all of all of it, from the very beginning of it, to it's very ending and every single, even smallest "detail" in between...
So, how can you say we have "free will" compared to a being like this...?
He has shown me very, very clearly in my own life that he knew "exactly" where I was going to be, and exactly what I would be doing, and even what I was going to even be "thinking and saying" long before I ever even thought or said it... or what I was or was going to be looking at, or even listening to, at many, many multiple certain points and times in my own life, so that I could not deny it, him, or "this" any longer... He has shown me clearly...
How does this happen...? Cause he knew and knows, and foreordained and predestined it all long ago, from the very beginning... and knows "all about it all" and "all of it", and I mean "all of it"... Not just for me, but for "everyone and everything", from the very beginning, to it's ending...
There is "nothing" this God does not know, NOTHING... He knows "everything", EVERYTHING...
So, what does this mean...? And, what now...? IDK...? Still working on that...
God Bless!
All the sparrows in the world, at all times... And beyond that, not just when they fall to the ground or die, but when it finds food, or water, or when each one is born, or where they are (all of them, each of them in the world) or is going to be, and "exactly" what their going to be doing, at or in a particular time and place, at all times and places in their lives... and, he knows this with all the sparrows that would come before and after them, from the very beginning of sparrows existence or creation, or what brought them about, or created, or gave rise to them and their existence, all the way back to the very beginning of "life"... It is the same with human beings...
And all his creations, all the way back to the beginning of creating them, or creating what made them come about, or gave rise to them... He knows it "ALL"... And, "every hair on your head is "numbered"... I find it amusing that he would use the word "numbered" cause deep down, "all" is numbers basically to the Father, and is the "program" I mentioned in the OP...
He knows where every atom, every single quantum particle, or every string is going to be, and what it is going to be doing, and how it is going to affect and influence "everything else", from the very beginning of "all of them" "in the entire universe", from the very beginning of them all... He knows how they are going to affect and make up molecules and cells, and how all that works together with his creation and how it affects and influences all of his creations, at once, and at all times, in all times, (including us and our supposed "free will" decisions) from the very beginning of starting them all, or setting them all in motion...
It's all a "program" to him, and he knows all of all of it, from the very beginning of it, to it's very ending and every single, even smallest "detail" in between...
So, how can you say we have "free will" compared to a being like this...?
He has shown me very, very clearly in my own life that he knew "exactly" where I was going to be, and exactly what I would be doing, and even what I was going to even be "thinking and saying" long before I ever even thought or said it... or what I was or was going to be looking at, or even listening to, at many, many multiple certain points and times in my own life, so that I could not deny it, him, or "this" any longer... He has shown me clearly...
How does this happen...? Cause he knew and knows, and foreordained and predestined it all long ago, from the very beginning... and knows "all about it all" and "all of it", and I mean "all of it"... Not just for me, but for "everyone and everything", from the very beginning, to it's ending...
There is "nothing" this God does not know, NOTHING... He knows "everything", EVERYTHING...
So, what does this mean...? And, what now...? IDK...? Still working on that...
God Bless!
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A video game (for example) has the appearance that you make choices in it (some of the modern ones today), but they, (the characters in them, and the ones controlling them) are not really making any "real" choices but the program is designed with the "illusion of free will", and they can't ever do anything outside the program, of "box"... Well, this world this universe, this reality, is just like one of those "boxes"...
This world, this universe, this reality, of physicality, is like a modern day video game on steroids, or a video game that is a billion to a trillion, or "hundreds of trillions of times" "much more "advanced", but it (this world, this reality) is not much different from those, or our modern day, video games... It's just that "comparing them" is like comparing a caveman who just discovered fire, to the invention of the atom bomb, or nuclear weapon technology we have today...
Actually I don't think there is any earthly thing that can begin to compare with the advancement of "God's video game", or simulated reality, or holodeck, or matrix that is like a video game in comparison to ours...
God Bless!
This world, this universe, this reality, of physicality, is like a modern day video game on steroids, or a video game that is a billion to a trillion, or "hundreds of trillions of times" "much more "advanced", but it (this world, this reality) is not much different from those, or our modern day, video games... It's just that "comparing them" is like comparing a caveman who just discovered fire, to the invention of the atom bomb, or nuclear weapon technology we have today...
Actually I don't think there is any earthly thing that can begin to compare with the advancement of "God's video game", or simulated reality, or holodeck, or matrix that is like a video game in comparison to ours...
God Bless!
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Yes he showed me that too when I was saved. It's funny that you mention it because this was the only moment in my life I could think of that related to what screwed my head up earlier. I experienced it like it was a program to Him and I was safe because he knew everything already and he was kind of checking in on me and showing me these things.
I failed to realize this earlier and got caught up wondering how God could possibly just choose this scenario. Idk it's weird man lol
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Grip Docility
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I will be very clear now. In my opinion, Paul reveals that there are Spiritual Bodies and these differ from earthly bodies in 1 Corinthians 15.
I further posit that a Body, Soul and Spirit make up all living things.
God has never been void of Body, Soul or Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:23
The difference is that God’s Body, Soul and Spirit can independently act to accomplish all things.
Salvation is a major example of this.
Spirit (Father) beyond time and unseen
Body (Son) capable of binding to time, while the Father is beyond time
Soul, (Holy Spirit of God) Bridging the chasm of The Finite Universe and the Infinite (timeless) existence Of God.
Basically, I believe that when God said let their be Light in Genesis, God placed His Infinite Son (Body) into Time and was the very first Presence of life in all of Creation.
Jesus reveals that He is the “Light of the world”.
The Soul Of God (Holy Spirit) can clearly mediate between time and timelessness in a way that allows for the complex management of Justice that is required to sustain a genuine choice based universe, without interfering with sincere expression of self on a Creations part.
God clearly has some sort of Mechanism like this, because, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have never not been.
Omnicience Of theist Study has always Limited God to a linear omniscience that forces God to simply go through the motions of what God has already known and experienced.
Basically, classical Omnicience places God in a box of linear thinking and response.
I have coined the term Quantum Omnicience for what I have been descibing, because it allows the mechanism we see in Matthew 24:36. God didn’t know and did know a thing “simultaneously”.
We see God relate to people within time all throughout scripture, yet know God also has full access to all that is to be known, by scripture.
To say God hasn’t known, isn’t quite right to me.
To deny that God can know and not know at the same, which is blatantly seen in Matthew 24:36, would be Denial of scripture.
That’s my personal take on the matter.
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I think some things are predetermined; such as those who disobey God's commands will lose God's support. I do not think everything is predetermined. I think God was alive a million years ago. I do not think God knew the Titanic was going to sink the hour, minute and second it went down when God was making plans a million years ago.
A person should try to repent, rather than expect God should do everything. There was a tax collector in Jericho named Zacchaeus. Jesus was passing through Jericho on his way to the Passover observance in Jerusalem, where attendance by all able bodied males was mandatory according to Torah and Talmudic law.
Luke 19:1-10 (World English Bible - Public Domain)
He entered and was passing through Jericho. 2 There was a man named Zacchaeus. He was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. 3 He was trying to see who Jesus was, and couldn’t because of the crowd, because he was short. 4 He ran on ahead, and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see him, for he was going to pass that way. 5 When Jesus came to the place, he looked up and saw him, and said to him, “Zacchaeus, hurry and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 He hurried, came down, and received him joyfully. 7 When they saw it, they all murmured, saying, “He has gone in to lodge with a man who is a sinner.”
8 Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, half of my goods I give to the poor. If I have wrongfully exacted anything of anyone, I restore four times as much.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Today, salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost.”
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Yes, and....
The Father gave all this certainty to Jesus, who passed it to His disciples:
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
...so it became a foreseen choice.
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RaymondG
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The bible states that He will say yes whenever you pray and believe. What is with the " what ifs" and the "if it's his wills"?
Anything you ask in my name.......whatsoever ye ask....... There were no ifs or excepts mentioned.....so why are we putting them there?
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RaymondG
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Just like video games of today can have 10 to 20 paths to the same end....it is possible that the "game" of life can have infinite paths to the end...... witch we can traverse through prayer....or not pray and "seem" to follow a path unknown to us....
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Eric Abbott
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Great question, I like to think that God is outside of time.
Think about it, if the universe is expanding.. then there must be an end to the universe somewhere, where there exists eternity.
And if Jesus went there when he ascended (Into eternity) and went by the right hand of God, where His throne is..
And the same one who descended is the one who ascended higher than all the heavens, so that he might fill the entire universe with himself. - Ephesians 4:10
that means God (Jesus) as well as Angels can move through creation in and out as they please with spiritual bodies as God allows it.
Inside of the Universe is time itself, outside of the Universe, it does not exist.. and outside of the universe must be infinite with no beginning and no end, if outside of the universe did not exist, the universe itself would not exist nor would it have a way to expand.
There is nothing there outside of the universe other than what God has already said is there, like He did with the universe which we live in.
Now try to get your 3 pound brain to register and comprehend that.. and if you can, try to comprehend the rest of your questions without reading God's word for yourself.. and if your brain is able to do that, my God would not be worth worshipping.
Think about it, if the universe is expanding.. then there must be an end to the universe somewhere, where there exists eternity.
And if Jesus went there when he ascended (Into eternity) and went by the right hand of God, where His throne is..
And the same one who descended is the one who ascended higher than all the heavens, so that he might fill the entire universe with himself. - Ephesians 4:10
that means God (Jesus) as well as Angels can move through creation in and out as they please with spiritual bodies as God allows it.
Inside of the Universe is time itself, outside of the Universe, it does not exist.. and outside of the universe must be infinite with no beginning and no end, if outside of the universe did not exist, the universe itself would not exist nor would it have a way to expand.
There is nothing there outside of the universe other than what God has already said is there, like He did with the universe which we live in.
Now try to get your 3 pound brain to register and comprehend that.. and if you can, try to comprehend the rest of your questions without reading God's word for yourself.. and if your brain is able to do that, my God would not be worth worshipping.
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Grip Docility
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The idol I spoke of has nothing to do with what you are discussing to be specifically clear. I’m speaking of a very prevelant idea that God is bound to linear omnicience that forces Him to operate on the constraints of a linear and finite time line. God is Infinite. To specify more clearly, would most likely be a poor choice on my part. But, there are a people that anthropomorphilogically Limit God to creating everything on linear tracks that even removes compassion from ALL creations, in a sort of pre selection of who is saved. Interesting enough, these same people cry anthropomorphism when human attributes are given to the same God that made us in His image.
I’m referring to people that subscribe to a God that doesn’t Love everyone. To be clear.
As for the bridge between time and timelessness. I see this all throughout scripture.
I indeed agree that Philippians 2 really starts where John starts in John and 1 John.
I also agree that the Son reclaimed timelessness when He commended His Spirit into the Father’s Hands.
I’ll give an example,
1 Peter 3:18For Christ also sufferedb once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in whichc he went and proclaimedd to the spirits in prison,20becausee they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
We see that when Christ crosses over, He has access to people of the past and “people in spiritual prison”.
When Christ returns in the flesh, He addresses a question the Disciples ask (Acts 1) about the literal Kingdom of Israel and He answers differently than He previously answered before “commending His Spirit into the Father’s hands”.
He says it’s not for Him to share times apointed by the Father. Before He “didn’t know”. (Matthew 24:36)
We can clearly see that God bridges time in a way that affirms your suspicions.
He is simultaneously outside of time and choice bound to time for relationship. Now, that’s seriously Omnipresent.
I believe the Holy Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9) is the current portion of the GodHead that is choice bound to time.
This explains why Jesus had to “go away” for the Spirit to come.
Is this along the lines of what you are noting I said?
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Yes, I'll have to admit that after that post about a video game or video games, that I pondered that as well, so maybe we do have some measure of choice and their is choice involved, within the limits of the program at least, and just like you can take multiple certain paths to the same ending, it could be like that here also...
Perhaps my thinking was to linear, thinking their was only one path, but it's kind of hard to think of or comprehend otherwise, but there very could be many more paths, and probably is actually; multiple different paths, within the program... And some video games are or can be designed to have different alternate endings also, based on your choices in the game... And then, they can be designed like a choose your own adventure book, to where you reach the end or ending earlier (in time) or later on (in time) also... And things could be like that here also, all within the program and all of them God knows of of course...
I wonder if our reality is that way, in a way, and maybe why Jesus didn't know the exact time or the hour...?
God Bless!
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