God does not love everyone and the Bible says so (Change My Mind)

Grip Docility · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
Still not answering the question.

When does He forget? Being omniscient, has He always forgotten, or does it happen at a point in time?

I don’t have to. God did, in Isaiah 43:25 and many other passages.

It’s difficult to pinpoint the ”when” of the matter when A day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day, to God.

The emphasis “was”, from your posit, as I understand you, from my personal perspective, on “God not being God if He can’t remember something”.

I keep asking for your take on Matthew 24:36.

I’m sincerely interested in what that all means to you, according to your posit.

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

razzelflabben said:
that is something for scripture to answer since it is scripture that claims that He forgets...if you take time to consider what scripture says in context I am betting you will find the answers to these questions and many others. Since your posts have shown you are unwilling to do that but instead insist on goading others I will no longer engage in the baiting you are doing to try to get others silenced.

Poking holes in your theology isn’t goading.

I’m asking when does He forget because it goes back to the claim that started this whole thing that we repent because we’ve been forgiven, not to obtain forgiveness.

But you are certainly free to not engage.

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

Grip Docility said:
I don’t have to. God did, in Isaiah 43:25 and many other passages.

It’s difficult to pinpoint the ”when” of the matter when A day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day, to God.

The emphasis “was”, from your posit, as I understand you, from my personal perspective, on “God not being God if He can’t remember something”.

I keep asking for your take on Matthew 24:36.

I’m sincerely interested in what that all means to you, according to your posit.

"I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins. - Isaiah 43:25
This doesn’t say when.

Grip Docility · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
"I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins. - Isaiah 43:25
This doesn’t say when.

Sir,

That would be a wonderful thread.

All of Christ Jesus’ blessings and Love to you. It has been interesting.

Matthew 24:36 cinches this up, in my personal opinion.

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

Grip Docility said:
Sir,

That would be a wonderful thread.

All of Christ Jesus’ blessings and Love to you. It has been interesting.

Matthew 24:36 cinches this up, in my personal opinion.

The “when” is pertinent to this discussion.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
Poking holes in your theology isn’t goading.

you have been shown what is goading and refused to take responsibility for it...now you are doing it again by trying to make claims that you can not back up and accuse me of accusing you of goading for something that never happened.

In fact, this whole time I have secretly been hoping you would give me an argument that actually challenges what I have been saying because standing up to challenge is how we know we have truth....but instead all you do is reinvent what is being said which isn't challenge or poking holes...instead it is just another form of goading.

I get you do not like the words scripture uses and I get that the fleshly reasoning cannot grasp it but you did not show it to be faulty, heck, you didn't even go to the lexicon to try to prove translational issues...I can do better than that with my own understanding as far as questioning it and putting forth challenge to it .

I’m asking when does He forget because it goes back to the claim that started this whole thing that we repent because we’ve been forgiven, not to obtain forgiveness.

you have been ask several times now by at least two different posters how one can repent of something that is already forgiven and you refuse to answer....you have been shown by at least two different posters on multiple occasions where scripture says God forgets our sins when we are forgiven....you have been shown by at least one poster where the passage you are trying to make an issue of the word "for" for doesn't mean what you are trying to claim it does...and all you can do is claim that you are being accused of goading because you poked holes in my theology....so let me ask you this...if you want to make the above claim, then do what I have done and actually outline what "holes' you think you have poked and how you think you did so....for example...

Using reason you have been shown that it is not logical to repent of something that is no longer existing.
Using the Lexicon you have been shown that the word "for" is not being used properly by you to come to the conclusion you do.
Using scripture you have been shown that God claims to forget sins that He has forgiven.
Using everyday examples you have been shown how it is possible to know something and still forget it.
Using scripture you have been shown how God tells us to forget things.

This is what I want you to do with your claims of holes to my theology...anything that stands up to more than just "cause I say so" arguments will be addressed yet again, all others will be considered to be goading.

But you are certainly free to not engage.

see above.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

well, I have been hanging around so I didn't miss all the "holes" to my theology that a certain poster claimed and so far, silence...I guess I will move on to bigger and better things and check back later to see if anything has been offered. Hope I don't get too far behind.

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

razzelflabben said:
you have been shown what is goading and refused to take responsibility for it...now you are doing it again by trying to make claims that you can not back up and accuse me of accusing you of goading for something that never happened.

In fact, this whole time I have secretly been hoping you would give me an argument that actually challenges what I have been saying because standing up to challenge is how we know we have truth....but instead all you do is reinvent what is being said which isn't challenge or poking holes...instead it is just another form of goading.

I get you do not like the words scripture uses and I get that the fleshly reasoning cannot grasp it but you did not show it to be faulty, heck, you didn't even go to the lexicon to try to prove translational issues...I can do better than that with my own understanding as far as questioning it and putting forth challenge to it . you have been ask several times now by at least two different posters how one can repent of something that is already forgiven and you refuse to answer....you have been shown by at least two different posters on multiple occasions where scripture says God forgets our sins when we are forgiven....you have been shown by at least one poster where the passage you are trying to make an issue of the word "for" for doesn't mean what you are trying to claim it does...and all you can do is claim that you are being accused of goading because you poked holes in my theology....so let me ask you this...if you want to make the above claim, then do what I have done and actually outline what "holes' you think you have poked and how you think you did so....for example...

Using reason you have been shown that it is not logical to repent of something that is no longer existing.
Using the Lexicon you have been shown that the word "for" is not being used properly by you to come to the conclusion you do.
Using scripture you have been shown that God claims to forget sins that He has forgiven.
Using everyday examples you have been shown how it is possible to know something and still forget it.
Using scripture you have been shown how God tells us to forget things.

This is what I want you to do with your claims of holes to my theology...anything that stands up to more than just "cause I say so" arguments will be addressed yet again, all others will be considered to be goading. see above.

The question was how can we repent of something God has forgotten, not that He has forgiven.

But that question is a better one since it lines up with scripture and the attributes of God.

So we need to ask, do we love God first, or seek forgiveness? The answer is that we love Him first. Why do we love Him? What’s the cause? The cause is His love for us.

Now how would God manifest love for us? Well, He would need to correct the sin problem. Which He did. On the cross. Our sins, all of them, were nailed to the cross. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. So we can rightly conclude that our sins were forgiven on the cross.

With God, though, this has always been. It was just as valid in Gen 1:1 as it is at the end of Revelation. So for the redeemed, their sins have always been forgiven.

So back to the question. How can we repent of sins He’s forgiven? Out of love, obedience, loyalty, and thankfulness.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
The question was how can we repent of something God has forgotten, not that He has forgiven.

you have been asked both questions and refused to answer either one.

But that question is a better one since it lines up with scripture and the attributes of God.

hey, at this point I would be thrilled for you to answer any question that is asked of you.

So we need to ask, do we love God first, or seek forgiveness? The answer is that we love Him first. Why do we love Him? What’s the cause? The cause is His love for us.

that does not answer either question...in fact, that is a whole different discussion than the one we are having...so I am still waiting for you to answer a question rather than try to change the topic to match what you want to talk about.

Now how would God manifest love for us? Well, He would need to correct the sin problem. Which He did. On the cross. Our sins, all of them, were nailed to the cross. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. So we can rightly conclude that our sins were forgiven on the cross.

see, your still avoiding the question...and here you are semi right but as I said that is a different discussion...how about trying to answer even one of the questions you have been asked....?

With God, though, this has always been. It was just as valid in Gen 1:1 as it is at the end of Revelation. So for the redeemed, their sins have always been forgiven.

but that does not answer the logic question you were asked about how or what should we repent of if we are already forgiven?

So back to the question. How can we repent of sins He’s forgiven? Out of love, obedience, loyalty, and thankfulness.

No, what are we repenting of if our sins are already forgiven....some use the word how, some what, it all boils down to the same question....what do we repent of if we have already been forgiven our sins...oh and remember, the challenge was to answer with more than just the equivalent to "cause I say so" which is all you have offered here.

IOW's so far you have avoided the question by trying to change the topic and by arguing the equivalent to "cause I say so"...neither of which is part of the challenge put forth to you.

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

razzelflabben said:
you have been asked both questions and refused to answer either one. hey, at this point I would be thrilled for you to answer any question that is asked of you. that does not answer either question...in fact, that is a whole different discussion than the one we are having...so I am still waiting for you to answer a question rather than try to change the topic to match what you want to talk about. see, your still avoiding the question...and here you are semi right but as I said that is a different discussion...how about trying to answer even one of the questions you have been asked....? but that does not answer the logic question you were asked about how or what should we repent of if we are already forgiven? No, what are we repenting of if our sins are already forgiven....some use the word how, some what, it all boils down to the same question....what do we repent of if we have already been forgiven our sins...oh and remember, the challenge was to answer with more than just the equivalent to "cause I say so" which is all you have offered here.

IOW's so far you have avoided the question by trying to change the topic and by arguing the equivalent to "cause I say so"...neither of which is part of the challenge put forth to you.

Breaking up my response makes it look as if I didn’t answer your questions is poor form. That’s why I tend to avoid long answers because folks tend to ignore the whole context.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
Breaking up my response makes it look as if I didn’t answer your questions is poor form. That’s why I tend to avoid long answers because folks tend to ignore the whole context.

Do you want me to quote the whole post then say all the things at once? Cause it doesn't change the fact that you did not answer the question nor did you answer it with anything beyond the equivalent of "cause I say so"...this post of yours is just more evasive maneuvers rather than just answering even one question asked of you which I am personally tiring of very quickly, you are either willing to answer questions and discuss the topic or you are not it doesn't require games...

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

razzelflabben said:
Do you want me to quote the whole post then say all the things at once? Cause it doesn't change the fact that you did not answer the question nor did you answer it with anything beyond the equivalent of "cause I say so"...this post of yours is just more evasive maneuvers rather than just answering even one question asked of you which I am personally tiring of very quickly, you are either willing to answer questions and discuss the topic or you are not it doesn't require games...

I did far more than because I said so. I did far more than just give a simple answer. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
I did far more than because I said so. I did far more than just give a simple answer. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

well, I didn't see an answer to why we should repent for something that is already forgiven...as pointed out, the word how or why was used interchangeably which should have been clear from context and clarifications. Your answer to why we should repent of something that we have already had forgiven was that God Loves us first and we should thus Love Him...which does not tell us what propose (another way of asking the same question as per previous context and clarifications) it would serve to repent of something that was already forgiven.

Let's put this into an analogy....some son comes into my house and steals my bananas. I forgave him before he even knew I knew they were gone a forgiveness which scripture says is forgotten but we will get back to that when you decide to answer the question...why would our son then need to repent of stealing the bananas since he was already forgiven....your argument is that he would because of Love, but why would love motivate him to reconcile a situation that was already reconciled? that is the question in even more clarity and if you can't understand it this time, I guess we are at an impasse again since it is painfully clear.

Now to the evidence you provided...what evidence shows why we should repent of something already forgiven...you talk about God's Love, which is supposedly your answer but since there isn't anything to repent of because it is already forgiven, Love does nothing to inform us of why we should repent of something already forgiven. In fact, one way to reconcile your lack of evidence would be to go to I Cor. 13 and show which of the characteristics of Love would show us that Love would be a valid reason to repent of what was already forgiven.

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

razzelflabben said:
which does not tell us what propose (another way of asking the same question as per previous context and clarifications) it would serve to repent of something that was already forgiven.

Then maybe instead of attacking, you could have asked for clarification.

We repent because we sin, and sin is an offense to God. If it wasn’t, He wouldn’t need to forgive us. Just because the forgiveness happened at the cross doesn’t change the severity of sin.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
Then maybe instead of attacking, you could have asked for clarification.

If you think I have attacked you I don't think you understand what an attack is...I have been kind, I have been patient, I have offered you advice on how to succeed at the challenge you were given...those are the marks of Love found in I Cor. 13 not attacks.

We repent because we sin, and sin is an offense to God. If it wasn’t, He wouldn’t need to forgive us. Just because the forgiveness happened at the cross doesn’t change the severity of sin.

But you still have not answered the question...if we are already forgiven why do we need to repent? What do we repent of if the offense is already forgiven?

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

razzelflabben said:
If you think I have attacked you I don't think you understand what an attack is...I have been kind, I have been patient, I have offered you advice on how to succeed at the challenge you were given...those are the marks of Love found in I Cor. 13 not attacks. But you still have not answered the question...if we are already forgiven why do we need to repent? What do we repent of if the offense is already forgiven?

The sin.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
The sin.

what sin? IT's already forgiven by your understanding....therefore it has already been paid for so it no longer is important to any part of our lives...and yes I am being very careful in how I word this so that you do not try to argue that I still don't understand what you are saying.

Hammster · Jun 7, 2018

razzelflabben said:
what sin? IT's already forgiven by your understanding....therefore it has already been paid for so it no longer is important to any part of our lives...and yes I am being very careful in how I word this so that you do not try to argue that I still don't understand what you are saying.

Just because it was atoned for doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

For example, I love my kids. There’s nothing that they could do where I’d stop loving them. They know that. So when they are disobedient, they apologize because they know they’ve done wrong. I don’t, at that point, decide to forgive them. That’s already a done deal because they are my child. But that doesn’t mean repentance isn’t necessary. It is. For their benefit, not mine.

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster said:
Just because it was atoned for doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

For example, I love my kids. There’s nothing that they could do where I’d stop loving them. They know that. So when they are disobedient, they apologize because they know they’ve done wrong. I don’t, at that point, decide to forgive them. That’s already a done deal because they are my child. But that doesn’t mean repentance isn’t necessary. It is. For their benefit, not mine.

If we were already forgiven, why then did Jesus need to suffer and die? One question at a time since you can't keep up by your own confession. I mean, if our relationship is already good, why should my children apologize? What scripture says that Love apologizes for sins already forgiven....different ways to ask the same question

razzelflabben · Jun 7, 2018

Hammster, I am really anxious for your answer since I have another question and don't want to forget it by having to wait too long for your response.

God does not love everyone and the Bible says so (Change My Mind)

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