A People who keep the Faith

seventysevens

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The Bible prophets do not say there will be a general redemption of the Jewish people.
I don't 'interpret' what the Bible says, it is you that does that, when you say the Jews are the Lord's people.
Look at them now; they display just about the opposite of what Christians should be. They are in the holy Land now, so as God can Judge them. Luke 19:27, Hebrews 10:26-30, Romans 1:18, Zechariah 14:7-9

You have so much to unlearn!
I did not say that either , in fact I have never heard anyone say that
As usual you misinterpret for the sake of what you prefer
Even now you show you do not understand , you are guilty of judging millions of people that you will never meet and never know , Just as Jesus taught that if one sheep left the fold he would go find that lost sheep and bring it back , Jesus knows who of the Jews will come to him and who will not , just as He knows what gentiles will come to him and who will not , there are many many could be a billion people who rejected Jesus for much of their lives and then one day they gave their life unto Jesus and live for him the rest of their lives
You have so much to learn
 
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Serving Zion

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Judah refers to the Jewish people, or more specifically to the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin. There were some from the other tribes and other nations, who have joined them and became Jewish too.

In Matthew 21:43, plainly, Jesus was speaking to the people who had rejected Him, so not all the Jews then, as is the case today. But there was then and is now, only a very small minority of Messianic Jews. Jesus also said: Bring those people who did not want Me for their King and slaughter them before Me. Luke 19:27
As Christians, we read that the promise made to Abraham's "seed" applies to those who are children of the promise, namely by exercising faith as Abraham (Romans 9:8).

The danger in believing that the expression "Judah" only refers to a genetic or tribal lineage, is that it takes away a large portion of the meaning in the scriptures that apply to us, as Christians.

As you have said that the Jewish faith enable outsiders to join themselves to it by faith, so we are joined to Christ Jesus through faith in the baptism (Colossians 2:12, 1 Corinthians 12:12), and Jesus is the everlasting king, of the tribe of Judah (Luke 1:32).
Today, there is no proof of ancestry to Abraham for anyone and the fact is that after 100 + generations, we all have some of his genes.
I would be interested to see some reliable references in support of this, if you don't mind sharing. Thank you!
There is many prophesies that tell of a forthcoming Judgement/punishment of Judah and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
My position is to ask why you are believing that after 2,000 years of banishment and persecution among the nations, and punishment thereof :crosseo: (selah).

.. that those who consider themselves of Judah (by faith), yet have inherited a culture to believe and to be told that they cannot receive Jesus as Messiah, should feel as though it is still a "forthcoming" punishment?

.. Keep in mind Romans 11:23 and Romans 9:1-5, especially where Romans 8:19-21 goes along with Romans 11:15, because it really is God's will that they should see the glorious light of the gospel of love that is in Christ Jesus, and be drawn back into union with Him.

This is our calling as Christians, that Christians have not been achieving for two thousand years, to bring forth the completion of all that Jesus has set about to fulfil through us (Philippians 2:13), and this has to be our attitude toward them (Romans 11:17-21). It is not acceptable for Christians to tell the wandering sheep of Judah that they are cut off from Christ unless they repent (eg: Zechariah 13:7), but to show them the love that Christ has for them, and to be remorseful, with them, that human failures (2 Peter 2:1-2) have prolonged [the coming of Messiah's healing to the world: Isaiah 11:6-9, Revelation 21:3-4] through those who take on the identity of Judah, (of whom we, Christians, have received the gospel to believe that David's throne is given to Jesus forevermore):

So I made up my mind that I would not come to you again causing sorrow. 2 For if I cause you sorrow, then who is there cheering me on but the one I have made sorrowful? 3 And I wrote this very thing to you, so that when I came I wouldn’t have sorrow from those who ought to make me rejoice—having confidence in you all that my joy is yours. 4 For out of much distress and anguish of heart I wrote to you with many tears—not to make you sorrowful, but to let you know the love that I have especially for you.

5 But if anyone has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not to me, but to some extent—not to exaggerate—to all of you. 6 For such a person, this punishment by the majority is enough. 7 So instead you should forgive him and encourage him. Otherwise such a person might be swallowed up by excessive sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might know your character, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 Now anyone you forgive, I also forgive. For indeed, what I have forgiven (if I have forgiven anything), I did it for you in the presence of Messiah, 11 so that we might not be outwitted by satan—for we are not ignorant of his schemes.
2 Corinthians 2:1-11
 
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seventysevens

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As Christians, we read that the promise made to Abraham's "seed" applies to those who are children of the promise, namely by exercising faith as Abraham (Romans 9:8).

The danger in believing that the expression "Judah" only refers to a genetic or tribal lineage, is that it takes away a large portion of the meaning in the scriptures that apply to us, as Christians.

As you have said that the Jewish faith enable outsiders to join themselves to it by faith, so we are joined to Christ Jesus through faith in the baptism (Colossians 2:12, 1 Corinthians 12:12), and Jesus is the everlasting king, of the tribe of Judah (Luke 1:32).

I would be interested to see some reliable references in support of this, if you don't mind sharing. Thank you!

My position is to ask why you are believing that after 2,000 years of banishment and persecution among the nations, and punishment thereof :crosseo: (selah).

.. that those who consider themselves of Judah (by faith), yet have inherited a culture to believe and to be told that they cannot receive Jesus as Messiah, should feel as though it is still a "forthcoming" punishment?

.. Keep in mind Romans 11:23 and Romans 9:1-5, especially where Romans 8:19-21 goes along with Romans 11:15, because it really is God's will that they should see the glorious light of the gospel of love that is in Christ Jesus, and be drawn back into union with Him.

This is our calling as Christians, that Christians have not been achieving for two thousand years, to bring forth the completion of all that Jesus has set about to fulfil through us (Philippians 2:13), and this has to be our attitude toward them (Romans 11:17-21). It is not acceptable for Christians to tell the wandering sheep of Judah that they are cut off from Christ unless they repent (eg: Zechariah 13:7), but to show them the love that Christ has for them, and to be remorseful, with them, that human failures (2 Peter 2:1-2) have prolonged [the coming of Messiah's healing to the world: Isaiah 11:6-9, Revelation 21:3-4] through those who take on the identity of Judah, (of whom we, Christians, have received the gospel to believe that David's throne is given to Jesus forevermore):

So I made up my mind that I would not come to you again causing sorrow. 2 For if I cause you sorrow, then who is there cheering me on but the one I have made sorrowful? 3 And I wrote this very thing to you, so that when I came I wouldn’t have sorrow from those who ought to make me rejoice—having confidence in you all that my joy is yours. 4 For out of much distress and anguish of heart I wrote to you with many tears—not to make you sorrowful, but to let you know the love that I have especially for you.

5 But if anyone has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not to me, but to some extent—not to exaggerate—to all of you. 6 For such a person, this punishment by the majority is enough. 7 So instead you should forgive him and encourage him. Otherwise such a person might be swallowed up by excessive sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might know your character, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 Now anyone you forgive, I also forgive. For indeed, what I have forgiven (if I have forgiven anything), I did it for you in the presence of Messiah, 11 so that we might not be outwitted by satan—for we are not ignorant of his schemes.
2 Corinthians 2:1-11
Well said , Amen
 
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Douggg

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As Christians, we read that the promise made to Abraham's "seed" applies to those who are children of the promise, namely by exercising faith as Abraham (Romans 9:8).

The danger in believing that the expression "Judah" only refers to a genetic or tribal lineage, is that it takes away a large portion of the meaning in the scriptures that apply to us, as Christians.

As you have said that the Jewish faith enable outsiders to join themselves to it by faith, so we are joined to Christ Jesus through faith in the baptism (Colossians 2:12, 1 Corinthians 12:12), and Jesus is the everlasting king, of the tribe of Judah (Luke 1:32).

I would be interested to see some reliable references in support of this, if you don't mind sharing. Thank you!

My position is to ask why you are believing that after 2,000 years of banishment and persecution among the nations, and punishment thereof :crosseo: (selah).

.. that those who consider themselves of Judah (by faith), yet have inherited a culture to believe and to be told that they cannot receive Jesus as Messiah, should feel as though it is still a "forthcoming" punishment?

.. Keep in mind Romans 11:23 and Romans 9:1-5, especially where Romans 8:19-21 goes along with Romans 11:15, because it really is God's will that they should see the glorious light of the gospel of love that is in Christ Jesus, and be drawn back into union with Him.

This is our calling as Christians, that Christians have not been achieving for two thousand years, to bring forth the completion of all that Jesus has set about to fulfil through us (Philippians 2:13), and this has to be our attitude toward them (Romans 11:17-21). It is not acceptable for Christians to tell the wandering sheep of Judah that they are cut off from Christ unless they repent (eg: Zechariah 13:7), but to show them the love that Christ has for them, and to be remorseful, with them, that human failures (2 Peter 2:1-2) have prolonged [the coming of Messiah's healing to the world: Isaiah 11:6-9, Revelation 21:3-4] through those who take on the identity of Judah, (of whom we, Christians, have received the gospel to believe that David's throne is given to Jesus forevermore):

So I made up my mind that I would not come to you again causing sorrow. 2 For if I cause you sorrow, then who is there cheering me on but the one I have made sorrowful? 3 And I wrote this very thing to you, so that when I came I wouldn’t have sorrow from those who ought to make me rejoice—having confidence in you all that my joy is yours. 4 For out of much distress and anguish of heart I wrote to you with many tears—not to make you sorrowful, but to let you know the love that I have especially for you.

5 But if anyone has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not to me, but to some extent—not to exaggerate—to all of you. 6 For such a person, this punishment by the majority is enough. 7 So instead you should forgive him and encourage him. Otherwise such a person might be swallowed up by excessive sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might know your character, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 Now anyone you forgive, I also forgive. For indeed, what I have forgiven (if I have forgiven anything), I did it for you in the presence of Messiah, 11 so that we might not be outwitted by satan—for we are not ignorant of his schemes.
2 Corinthians 2:1-11
Israel:
ten northern tribes - the northern kingdom - called Ephraim and Israel
two southern tribes - the southern kingdom - called Judah

Christians:
a new creation in Christ, are neither Israel nor Judah by virtue of being a Christian. Don't you realize that you are above of being either Judah or Israel?
 
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seventysevens

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Christians:
a new creation in Christ, are neither Israel nor Judah by virtue of being a Christian. Don't you realize that you are above of being either Judah or Israel?
what do you mean exactly ??
 
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Serving Zion

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Israel:
ten northern tribes - the northern kingdom - called Ephraim and Israel
two southern tribes - the southern kingdom - called Judah

Christians:
a new creation in Christ, are neither Israel nor Judah by virtue of being a Christian. Don't you realize that you are above of being either Judah or Israel?
I do not approve of your speech toward God's people. It is contrary to our calling as Christians (Philippians 2:3-4).
 
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keras

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I do not approve of your speech toward God's people. It is contrary to our calling as Christians
But the Jewish people; those who reject Jesus are no longer God's people.
Romans 2:28 The real Jew is one who is inwardly a Jew, [an Israelite, born again Christian believer]
Revelation 2:9 Those who call themselves Jews, but are not...…

Serving Zion, if you actually are a servant of the Zionists, then you must be a atheistic communist, as they are.
In Romans 11, Paul says that the 'branches' of his race have been lopped off the olive Tree of Jesus. Then in verse 23; IF they do not continue to be faithless, they can be grafted back in again.
There are a few thousand who have become faithful to Jesus, but 99% remain stubborn rejecters and will die on the Lord's Day of wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27
 
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keras

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My position is to ask why you are believing that after 2,000 years of banishment and persecution among the nations, and punishment thereof
Because they still fail to repent of their sins and apostasy.
But mainly because the Prophetic Word says that Judah will be punished again.

The fig tree is a symbol for Judah. The fig tree became a symbol of man's weakness and inability to take away sin. The best that could be done was the covering of sin. Only in the Son of God is sin taken away.

Good Figs and Bad Figs:
Jeremiah 24:2-10 One basket had very good figs, like first-ripe figs, and the other basket had very bad figs which could not be eaten due to rottenness. Then the LORD said to me, "What do you see, Jeremiah?" And I said, "Figs, the good figs, very good; and the bad figs, very bad, which cannot be eaten due to rottenness."
Jeremiah was shown two types of figs, very good figs and very bad figs, so bad that they were rotten and inedible.

Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Thus says the Lord God of Israel, 'Like these good figs, so I will regard as good the captives of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans. 'For I will set My eyes on them for good, and I will bring them again to this land; and I will build them up and not overthrow them, and I will plant them and not pluck them up' I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the Lord; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart.

'But like the bad figs which cannot be eaten due to rottenness--indeed, thus says the Lord - so I will abandon Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials, and the remnant of Jerusalem who remain in this land and the ones who dwell in the land of Egypt. 'I will make them a terror and an evil for all the kingdoms of the earth, as a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse in all places where I will scatter them. 'I will send the sword, the famine and the pestilence upon them until they are destroyed from the land which I gave to them and their forefathers.'"

The very good figs were the ones who obediently went into captivity, which is called an iron yoke judgment. In other words, they accepted the Lord's judgment to remove them from the land because of their falling away from the Lord. The very bad figs were the ones who disobediently refused to go into captivity. They chose to remain either on the land or to dwell in Egypt. In either case, this was not the Lord's judgment for them. Since they refused to receive His judgment, the Judahites that remained became very bad or rotten figs. So, during Jeremiah's day, as far as the Lord was concerned, the Judahites were divided into two classes of people.


Good Trees and Bad Trees:
Now, when Jesus appeared in Judah, He picked up the same theme that He had previously given to His servant Jeremiah.
Jesus said: "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire". Matthew 7:17-19

Many people use these verses to refer to the lost or to Christians that they believe are not fruit bearers, for whatever reason. However, Jesus obviously had in mind the words that He spoke to Jeremiah some 600 years earlier about the good figs and the bad figs. The good figs of Judah accepted the Lord's judgment of them and willingly went into Babylonian captivity. In other words, they did not fight His judgment of them. Because of their obedience, the Lord promised to return them to their land and give them a heart to know Him. "They will return to Me with their whole heart" Indeed, a remnant returned to rebuild Jerusalem and this formed the heart of the good fig nation of Judah that followed Jesus and accepted Him as the King of Judah.

The bad figs of Judah refused to accept the Lord's judgment of them and instead obstinately remained in the land, or went down to Egypt. In other words, they fought the Lord's judgment of them. Because of their disobedience, the Lord indicted them as rotten fruit that could not be eaten and pronounced a further judgment on them.
"I will send the sword, the famine and the pestilence upon them until they are destroyed from the land." This was a prophetic indictment of the bad fig nation of Judah that later refused to follow Jesus and demanded His death, even though they knew He was the King of Judah.

Fig Tree of Judah:
Jesus gave another parable about a vineyard, but this time the fig tree was in its midst.

He told this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground? He answered and said to him, Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down. Luke 13:6-9

Judah's King had walked publicly in their midst for three years, but He found no fruit of the Kingdom. The nation was worthy to be cut down and burned; however, a plea was made for one more year. Within that year, this fig tree demanded the death of the very Trunk of the tree and sealed their destiny. So, when Jesus saw the lone fig tree, He cursed it as a sign of what was to come of the bad fig tree of Judah.

Seeing at a distance a fig tree in leaf, He went to see if perhaps He would find anything on it; and when He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!" And His disciples were listening. Mark 11:13-14

We need to be clear that this lone fig tree was the nation of Judah that was about to reject their Messiah. The religious elite or, as Jesus called them, the hypocrites were the source of the rot. The scribes and Pharisees did just that to many of the figs in that day, through their hypocritical hearts that did not love the Lord and were bolstered by their traditions and doctrines. Like their forefathers, they too fought the judgment of the Lord. They were under Roman rule by the hand of God but rather than submit to His judgment and wait for God to deliver them out of it, they wanted a political solution. They wanted to remove the yoke through the sword, not by the Spirit, and, for this, they did not inherit the Kingdom that they sought.

But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Matthew 23:13

He said to them, Well did Isaiah prophesy concerning you, hypocrites…: "This people honors Me with the lips, but their heart is far away from Me; and in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. Isaiah 29:13 For forsaking the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…. Mark 7:6-8

In other words, the cursed fig tree would not inherit the Kingdom of God but instead be cast out of it as if it were rotten fruit. In fulfilment of the prophecies of Jeremiah 29:9-10 and the following one from Jesus, God sent the Roman army to destroy the great city Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.
But the king [God the Father] was enraged, and he sent his [God's Roman] armies and destroyed those murderers [bad figs] and set their city [Jerusalem] on fire. Matthew 22:7

As Jesus approached the cross, He gave His disciples another parable about the fig tree.
And He spoke a parable to them: You see the fig tree [cursed fig nation] and all the trees [all the nations]. Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it, you will know from yourselves that now the summer is near. Luke 21:29-30

On the one hand, Jesus prophesied of the destruction of the cursed fig tree, and on the other hand, He prophesied of its rebirth. What does this mean? The key is in the fig tree having leaves (rebirth) but no fruit (barren). Jesus prophesied that a day would come when the cursed fig tree would reappear, not to bear fruit but to be judged, when God will once again send His army against this apostate nation.

The cursed fig tree of Judah disappeared as a nation with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. However, on May 15, 1948, the Jewish state of Israel came into being, and, on May 19, 1949, it joined the United Nations as a full member. Following Israel's national appearance, many nations (all the trees) came forth, for during the next three decades, the UN saw its membership grow by 92 nations. It is quite interesting that in the same decade that the apparent Jews captured Jerusalem, 1960’s, the world saw the greatest increase of nations (42) since the inception of the UN in 1945. Over two-thirds of the current UN membership came about after Israel joined the UN in fulfilment of the Lord's prophetic word. Thus, all the trees refer to all the nations of the world that will be judged along with the fig tree nation. Why? Because they reject Jesus, the King of the nations, not just the King of Judah!

It is essential to realize that modern Israel is not the true Israel of God but imposters who have usurped the birthright name Israel from the house of Israel, that lost their national identity when they were taken captive by the Assyrians from 745-717 BC. The people of Israel were dispersed among the nations and lost the knowledge of their ancestry, as it is still today.

If we want to seek for the lost house of Israel, the only logical place to look is in the Christianized nations of the west that were established in Europe and the British Isles and spread from there to North America, then around the world. The mission of Jesus to the lost sheep of Israel, did not fail, but has been a resounding success!And it is those people who have done what God wanted; produced the proper fruit of being His witnesses and His Light to the nations.

If the Zionists had taken the name Judah for their nation, they would have been closer to the truth, but even then it would not have been the truth, for that nation is more aligned with the birthright claims of Esau and Ishmael than with the sceptre of Judah.

Is the present-day Israel that rejects Christ producing the fruit of the Kingdom? No! Why? Because Jesus' judgment still stands: May no one ever eat fruit from you again!

Pay close attention to Jesus' word. Many today believe that the modern-day Israel will bear fruit simply because they claim to have the correct genes that make them God's chosen people. Genes do not make one God's chosen, faith does, regardless of one's race, color, gender or language.

Jesus indicted this fruitless fig tree over 2,000 years ago; no one will ever eat fruit from you again. Why? Because they are barren and will remain barren!

Then you are to break the jar in the sight of the men who accompany you and say to them, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Just so will I break this people and this city, even as one breaks a potter's vessel, which cannot again be repaired; and they will bury in Topheth because there is no other place for burial. "This is how I will treat this place and its inhabitants," declares the LORD, "so as to make this city like Topheth. Jeremiah 19:10-12

By the way, Topheth is the gehenna of fire (the so-called fiery hell) that Jesus warned the Judahites they were in danger of going into. He did not warn of an eternal torture chamber of fire and worms; He warned of capital punishment, meaning destruction of Jerusalem and literal death of all who rejected Him and demanded His crucifixion.

Finally, the good fig people of Judah is part of the ecclesia of Christ, for this body of believers has joined themselves with the Lion of the tribe of Judah. However, even though the argument could be made and is made that this is the good fig tree, we must keep in mind that the symbolism of covering for sin is not entirely accurate for believers today, for Jesus has taken away sin, not just covered it. The New Covenant offers a much better and more complete and perfect salvation.

So, although we conclude with the good fig tree of Judah, we need to understand that we are joined with this tree because we are joined with the King who was prophesied to take the scepter of Judah and rule over the nations.
 
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seventysevens

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Serving Zion, if you actually are a servant of the Zionists, then you must be a atheistic communist, as they are.
In Romans 11, Paul says that the 'branches' of his race have been lopped off the olive Tree of Jesus. Then in verse 23; IF they do not continue to be faithless, they can be grafted back in again.
And you compare yourself to God that you know who will not repent and how many ?
You totally misunderstand what Romans 11 is about and , you not understanding what Jesus aid about being humble , and about loving people

Matt 5
46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much.
47 If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that.
48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
 
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Serving Zion

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But the Jewish people; those who reject Jesus are no longer God's people.
I do not believe that this is likely to be happening in the present day though. I understand that there are many Jewish people who reject the teaching that Jesus is Messiah, but that in doing so, they have most likely not had the opportunity to first recognise that Jesus is who He is in order to reject Him. The problem is that Christians by-and-large do not produce the fruits of repentance that are worthy of the Kingdom (consider Matthew 5:20). As a result, the Jewish people who have been taught to think evil of Jesus, yet they know the righteousness that Torah teaches and they look at Christians that are essentially lawless and nothing at all of a reflection of who Messiah ought to be, they are rightfully observing hypocrisy in those Christians who would claim to be representative of the body of Messiah, just as the gospel teaches (Ephesians 4:15-16) .. and I do have first-hand experience of this, after having met Jewish people and recognising that there is a genuine humbleness in them that is capable of receiving the gospel when it is presented according to the real nature of Messiah (as compared to the nature of the lawless ones, the many who take the broad road to destruction, those of Matthew 7:23.
But the Jewish people; those who reject Jesus are no longer God's people.
Romans 2:28 The real Jew is one who is inwardly a Jew, [an Israelite, born again Christian believer]
Revelation 2:9 Those who call themselves Jews, but are not...…
[/quote]
Well, as I explained, that the Jews of today are not the ones who crucified Messiah 2,000 years ago, and the ones I have met are of the nature that I expect they would not do such a thing. In my experience, they are as much entitled to be called God's people as any person who is seeking God sincerely but has not yet come to fruition of knowledge such to enter into His baptism.
Serving Zion, if you actually are a servant of the Zionists, then you must be a atheistic communist, as they are.
You and I have demonstrable differences in terminology. I do not think of Zion as you apparently do!

(consider Hebrews 12:22 - Zion is the heavenly Jerusalem, where our citizenship is in the heavens, where we partake in the joyous gathering of myriads of angels. This is a present experience.)
In Romans 11, Paul says that the 'branches' of his race have been lopped off the olive Tree of Jesus. Then in verse 23; IF they do not continue to be faithless, they can be grafted back in again.
There are a few thousand who have become faithful to Jesus, but 99% remain stubborn rejecters and will die on the Lord's Day of wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27
I do sincerely encourage that you take care with teaching that way. It is not beneficial to any person that you would say such things, and as I have explained above, those 99% you refer to have probably not had ample exposure to Jesus Christ and the knowledge of Him represented in worthy spirit, in order to be condemned according to your expectations. The majority of so-called Christians are antichrists - they know neither the father or the son. Their ears and hearts are calloused, the light they think they have is darkness, and on the day of His appearance He will declare "I never knew you! depart from me, you are a worker of iniquity". Therefore, do not boast against the branches that were lopped off, but be in fear, for if He is so severe against those who were by nature part of the vine, how should the one who is by nature contrary to it, expect to be spared?
 
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Serving Zion

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Seeing at a distance a fig tree in leaf, He went to see if perhaps He would find anything on it; and when He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!" And His disciples were listening.

Is the present-day Israel that rejects Christ producing the fruit of the Kingdom? No! Why? Because Jesus' judgment still stands: May no one ever eat fruit from you again!
I appreciate the effort and the heart that you put into your long explanation, I really do. I do not want you to get the idea that I don't appreciate it, that I have fobbed it off, because that's not who I am.

The reason I have not responded to the whole post, is that we do have radically fundamental differences in theology, that is becoming apparent through our conversation, and it will do no good to get into a tit-for-tat, trying to find resolution to every difference we have. It is just impossible to do that, actually, because each post would get longer and longer, and eventually one of us would get impatient.

Instead, I have chosen this snippet, because it seems the most central part of what you have said, and I will tell you what I have seen in your view of it that I believe is an error.

Jesus walked up to a fig tree and cursed it. The fig tree died. You have extrapolated, through mystic reading of other verses, to construct a mythology that the literal event of Jesus cursing a literal tree to death, is a symbolism of a perpetual curse upon those who call themselves Jewish but who do not recognise that Jesus is Messiah. In so doing, you have declared that Jesus cursed Judah, saying "may no-one ever eat fruit from you again!", whereas Jesus didn't actually make that declaration.

In handling the scriptures this way, you are effectively cursing Judah in the name of Jesus by twisting scripture to make it seem as though it supports the curse that you have applied.

I do not approve of the way that you are handling scripture to this effect.

Jesus did curse Jerusalem, but it contained an implied promise that He would not forsake them: Luke 13:30-35

Look, your house is left to you desolate! For I tell you, you will never see Me until you say, ‘Baruch ha-ba b’shem Adonai. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

.. I wonder whether you did read Malachi 3 when I offered it to you the first time? It's worth keeping in mind to this effect:

Malachi 3 Tree of Life Version (TLV)
“Behold, I am sending My messenger,
and he will clear the way before Me.
Suddenly He will come to His Temple
—the Lord whom you seek—
and the Messenger of the covenant
—the One whom you desire—
behold, He is coming,”
says Adonai-Tzva’ot.
2 But who can endure the day of His coming?
Or who can stand when He appears?
For He will be like a refiner’s fire,
and like soap for cleaning raw wool.
3 And He will sit as a smelter or a purifier of silver,
and He will cleanse the sons of Levi,
and purify them like gold or silver.
Then they will become for Adonai
those who present an offering in righteousness.
4 Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to Adonai,
as in days of antiquity and years of old.
 
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keras

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4 Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to Adonai,
as in days of antiquity and years of old.
Even you must admit that it cannot be every Jew that is saved.
That this proportion is very small, is made clear in many prophesies. The bulk of the Lord's people are every faithful Christian, from every race, nation and language.
I do not believe that this is likely to be happening in the present day though. I understand that there are many Jewish people who reject the teaching that Jesus is Messiah, but that in doing so, they have most likely not had the opportunity to first recognise that Jesus is who He is in order to reject Him.
I have lived for a while in Israel. Modern Jews do know there was a Jew called Yeshua. Most accept what their Rabbi's tell them and so continue to reject Him.

However, this contentious issue isn't beneficial for us to argue over. I have presented the case for the only way a Jewish person, or anyone at all, can become one of God's holy people; is to believe in God and to accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

In the last days, the vast majority of the worlds people will worship an imposter, an Anti-Christ and God will give him the power to rule the world for 42 months. Revelation 13:5-9 It's going to be very tough for us to maintain our faith then, but we must endure until the end. Daniel 7:23-25, Revelation 13:9-10
 
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keras

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And you compare yourself to God that you know who will not repent and how many ?
You totally misunderstand what Romans 11 is about and , you not understanding what Jesus aid about being humble , and about loving people
I quoted exactly what Romans 11:23 says. The Jewish people will not be regrafted into the Tree, which is Jesus, unless they - as individuals, accept Him NOW.
The unscriptural doctrine of a general Jewish redemption after the Great Tribulation, is just a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven ' cult and is never prophesied to happen.

You revert to form, with your personal accusations against me.
Why not write out Romans 11 and show us all how you make the plain meaning there fit your doctrine.
 
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Serving Zion

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Even you must admit that it cannot be every Jew that is saved.
That this proportion is very small, is made clear in many prophesies. The bulk of the Lord's people are every faithful Christian, from every race, nation and language.

I have lived for a while in Israel. Modern Jews do know there was a Jew called Yeshua. Most accept what their Rabbi's tell them and so continue to reject Him.

However, this contentious issue isn't beneficial for us to argue over. I have presented the case for the only way a Jewish person, or anyone at all, can become one of God's holy people; is to believe in God and to accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

In the last days, the vast majority of the worlds people will worship an imposter, an Anti-Christ and God will give him the power to rule the world for 42 months. Revelation 13:5-9 It's going to be very tough for us to maintain our faith then, but we must endure until the end. Daniel 7:23-25, Revelation 13:9-10
Alright, then I can see that there is no chance for finding agreement today and we will have to go separate ways. I shall declare as I go, that I take no part in what you are teaching.

Thank you for having been patient and kind toward me through our conversation :wave:
 
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Douggg

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I do not approve of your speech toward God's people. It is contrary to our calling as Christians (Philippians 2:3-4).
This the fig tree generation of Israel will be saved, when they embrace Jesus for forgiveness of their sins.
 
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Douggg

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what do you mean exactly ??
Being a Jew is being a descendant of some man and woman. It carries with it the same as any other descendant of a man and woman, and that is eternal separation from God.

Being a Christians is being a child of God. A Christian has God within them - forever.
 
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seventysevens

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Being a Jew is being a descendant of some man and woman. It carries with it the same as any other descendant of a man and woman, and that is eternal separation from God.

Being a Christians is being a child of God. A Christian has God within them - forever.
Jews are Christians as well
They were the First Christians to exist
If it were not for the ego of the Pharisees and other Religious leaders that were so insecure in themselves and afraid of losing their own elite staus and power and as a result convinced the people to crucify Christ
Gentiles would not have received the gospel in order to be saved

Gentiles did not even believe in YHWH
 
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Douggg

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Jews are Christians as well
They were the First Christians to exist
If it were not for the ego of the Pharisees and other Religious leaders that were so insecure in themselves and afraid of losing their own elite staus and power and as a result convinced the people to crucify Christ
Gentiles would not have received the gospel in order to be saved

Gentiles did not even believe in YHWH
Some Jews are Christians. And being a Christian - in their case, as well - far exceeds their being a Jew.

Of human birth, none was greater than John the Baptist - a Jew - Jesus said - but even the very least of the Kingdom of God is greater than he.

And our God is the great and mighty God to make it so.
 
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keras

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This the fig tree generation of Israel will be saved, when they embrace Jesus for forgiveness of their sins.
Nowhere does the bible tell of a general redemption of the Jewish people.
You are just parroting the 'rapture to heaven of the church' doctrine, which has to have Israel on earth; going thru tribulation, while the Church relaxes in heaven. A completely wrong and unbiblical theory.

Please provide proof for your statement above, or apologize to us all for promoting a false teaching.
 
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keras

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Gentiles did not even believe in YHWH
Luke was a Gentile.
Anyway, it has always been the case that foreigners could join Israel and now it is virtually all non Israeli people who have embraced the Gospel.
If it were not for the ego of the Pharisees and other Religious leaders that were so insecure in themselves and afraid of losing their own elite staus and power and as a result convinced the people to crucify Christ
Gentiles would not have received the gospel in order to be saved
This is very weird and unscriptural exegesis.
Jesus came to offer Salvation to all who would accept it. John 3:16 And we Christians have, but the Jews continue in their rejection of Jesus. The fate of both will be determined by Jesus: Matthew 25:31-46
 
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