Genesis One

Aman777

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1- (I believe we both know where we stand, but please go along with me) Do you believe the creation event in Genesis is in days or ages/periods?

Ages/periods, since we still live on the 6th Day at Gen 1:27.

2- Do you agree or disagree, that Genesis 1 (and 2) is written in Hebrew?

Agree.

3- Do you agree with the meaning of the Hebrew word " 'ereb" that means "evening" defined as: "dusk:— day, even(-ing, tide), night"?
If not, please explain and give detail/evidence.

Agree, but it can also mean the end of a period of time.

4- Do you agree with the meaning of the Hebrew word "boqer" that means "morning" defined as: "properly, dawn (as the break of day); generally, morning:—(+) day, early, morning, morrow."?

If not, please explain and give detail/evidence.

Agree, but it can also mean the beginning of a period of time.


Pause the questions and hear me out really quick.

I agree that "yowm" in Hebrew in the proper context can mean ages or periods. However, in the proper context, it can also mean one 24 hour day.

Agree.

You must face the grammar/context of these sentences. If you truly believe the bible is the inspired word of God, you will face how the sentences are structured. Doing so, you will see that Genesis 1 is stating 24 hour days and not periods of time.

Then it should be easy for you to show us in the past when Humans had dominion or rule over Angels and every other living creature. Gen 1:28 Then show us WHEN in the past every creature was a vegetarian. Gen 1:30 Then tell us when God, Who sees the end from the beginning, declared His creation to be very good and rested from ALL of His work. Gen 2:1-3 Amen?
 
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Phred

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This post is nonsense. Pure, unadulterated nonsense. It's nonsense from a scientific perspective and nonsense from a scriptural perspective. It's not worth dissecting to show how ridiculous it is.
 
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Acts2:38

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Ages/periods, since we still live on the 6th Day at Gen 1:27.



Agree.



Agree, but it can also mean the end of a period of time.



Agree.



Then it should be easy for you to show us in the past when Humans had dominion or rule over Angels and every other living creature. Gen 1:28 Then show us WHEN in the past every creature was a vegetarian. Gen 1:30 Then tell us when God, Who sees the end from the beginning, declared His creation to be very good and rested from ALL of His work. Gen 2:1-3 Amen?

You are still avoiding and sidestepping the evidence I bring you. At this point, I believe it is intentional.

Let's go over the results of the incomplete answers you gave to my questions.....

1- (I believe we both know where we stand, but please go along with me) Do you believe the creation event in Genesis is in days or ages/periods?

You answered:
Ages/periods, since we still live on the 6th Day at Gen 1:27.

Even though you already posted as such, I just wanted it here for you to compare to the next responses made.

2- Do you agree or disagree, that Genesis 1 (and 2) is written in Hebrew?

You answered:

I agree too. So now we both agree, Genesis 1 and 2 are in the Hebrew language.

3- Do you agree with the meaning of the Hebrew word " 'ereb" that means "evening" defined as: "dusk:— day, even(-ing, tide), night"?
If not, please explain and give detail/evidence.

You answered:
Agree, but it can also mean the end of a period of time.

You agreed that it meant a literal evening, but you are incorrect about it meaning a period of time. No, you are incorrect. 'ereb does not mean a period of time at all.

You also failed to provide an explanation and evidence as to why and how you think it is a period of time.

'ereb is a literal evening defined as: "dusk:— day, even(-ing, tide), night".

Provide me with evidence of how you think this is otherwise. Question 3 is still active for you to answer as you got it wrong due to the fact you think it means "a period of time" and didn't even give evidence.

4- Do you agree with the meaning of the Hebrew word "boqer" that means "morning" defined as: "properly, dawn (as the break of day); generally, morning:—(+) day, early, morning, morrow."?

If not, please explain and give detail/evidence.

You said:
"Agree, but it can also mean the beginning of a period of time."

Again, you provided no support to your answer like I asked.

No, you are wrong that it is a "period of time". Where in this definition of the Hebrew word boqer, do you see a period of time?

Definition:
"properly, dawn (as the break of day); generally, morning:—(+) day, early, morning, morrow."

I just don't see it. Again, where is your evidence?

You said that you agree that Genesis 1 and 2 is written in Hebrew (question 2).
The Strong's book and the Gesenius Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon both agree with the definition I posted. Nowhere do I see a period of time explained in the definition of this word, "boqer"/"morning".

Where is your evidence that states otherwise?

Last question #5, I didn't see a separated section where you answered, but I am assuming you answered in when you tried to answer question 4 when you pasted my quote:

[I agree that "yowm" in Hebrew in the proper context can mean ages or periods. However, in the proper context, it can also mean one 24 hour day.]

You put down below:

I am assuming you meant to answer question 5 here and agreed that the word "yowm" can change its meaning with the type of context.

This tells me that you agree that "Yowm" or "day" can mean one 24 hour day, and you agree that pending on context, that's exactly what it can mean.

However, you tried to be tricky and change the meaning of 'ereb and boqer.
You also probably know you cannot provide the evidence that states 'ereb and boqer can mean a period of time greater than the 24 hour day or in your case, "ages". Because 'ereb and boqer does not mean "ages/period of time" beyond that of a 24 hour day.

I will post this again:

The evidence I bring you putting together those Hebrew words that you for the most part agreed to......

"evening" and "morning" were the [first,second,third,fourth,fifth,sixth,seventh] "day"

'ereb + boqer = "" yowm
evening + morning = "" day

Given the context/grammar of these sentences, and the definition of those words, one is forced to conclude that this is one 24 hour day, seeing that it was "evening and morning" tied into the word "yowm" / "day".

Here is an example of "yowm" meaning a "period of time or an age"

See to 1 Kings 11:42,

"42 And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years."

"and the time..." = "Yowm" in Hebrew. It ties in with "...was forty years." to give us an idea that a "period of time or an age" has gone by. This sentence obviously does not mean one 24 hour day.

Here is another example of the Hebrew word "Yowm" used as a period of time, found in Genesis 4:3

"and in the process of time..." the word "yowm" is used, telling us that a portion of time, more than a 24 hour day, has gone by.

Back to Genesis 1, the Hebrew word for "yowm" is tied into "evening and morning were the [first, second, third, etc]" to meaning exactly ONE 24 hour day.

You must face the grammar/context of these sentences. If you truly believe the bible is the inspired word of God, you will face how the sentences are structured. Doing so, you will see that Genesis 1 is stating 24 hour days and not periods of time.
 
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Aman777

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You must face the grammar/context of these sentences. If you truly believe the bible is the inspired word of God, you will face how the sentences are structured. Doing so, you will see that Genesis 1 is stating 24 hour days and not periods of time.

Sorry, but only with the help of the Holy Spirit can one know what the Bible teaches. Those who follow the teachings of Alexander Campbell can never understand since they preach "another Gospel", the Gospel which was intended for Jews. Are you Jewish? If not, you should follow the Gospel of Christ. God Bless you
 
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Acts2:38

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Sorry, but only with the help of the Holy Spirit can one know what the Bible teaches. Those who follow the teachings of Alexander Campbell can never understand since they preach "another Gospel", the Gospel which was intended for Jews. Are you Jewish? If not, you should follow the Gospel of Christ. God Bless you

I don't follow Alexander Campbell.

churches of Christ have been around a lot longer than Alexander. First century to be more precise.

Romans 16:16

The church started in Acts 2. There is only "one" church too..

Ephesians 4:4-6
1 Corinthians 12
Romans 12

I am not Jewish either.

Sorry, but only with the help of the Holy Spirit can one know what the Bible teaches.

The bible is written at a 6-12th grade reading level pending on which version (NIV, KJV, ASV).

It's not that hard to understand. Its made hard by those who twist it for their own desires. Your excuse here in the quote above is a direct deflection anything I present. It's just like those people that claim they can do miracles, and when you ask them to heal you, they fail and say it was because you didn't have enough faith. Totally bogus.

With this last post you made, and no evidence to speak of, you have shown everyone on this thread that your theory is completely false.

The sad part though is you are too blinded to see it. Actually, hold up. I think you see the truth but completely refuse to give up what you wish to be. That's even worse. 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 1 Timothy 4:1-2

It sounds like your done speaking with me, especially since you absolutely refuse to provide evidence to my questions (because you have none really and we both know it).

I would still welcome any future discussion with you.
 
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Aman777

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I don't follow Alexander Campbell.

churches of Christ have been around a lot longer than Alexander. First century to be more precise.

Romans 16:16

The church started in Acts 2. There is only "one" church too..

Ephesians 4:4-6
1 Corinthians 12
Romans 12

I am not Jewish either.



The bible is written at a 6-12th grade reading level pending on which version (NIV, KJV, ASV).

It's not that hard to understand. Its made hard by those who twist it for their own desires. Your excuse here in the quote above is a direct deflection anything I present. It's just like those people that claim they can do miracles, and when you ask them to heal you, they fail and say it was because you didn't have enough faith. Totally bogus.

With this last post you made, and no evidence to speak of, you have shown everyone on this thread that your theory is completely false.

The sad part though is you are too blinded to see it. Actually, hold up. I think you see the truth but completely refuse to give up what you wish to be. That's even worse. 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 1 Timothy 4:1-2

It sounds like your done speaking with me, especially since you absolutely refuse to provide evidence to my questions (because you have none really and we both know it).

I would still welcome any future discussion with you.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Can you tell us How to get to Heaven?
 
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Acts2:38

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1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Can you tell us How to get to Heaven?

By obeying the gospel:

  1. Hear the word - Romans 10:17, Matthew 7:24-27
  2. Believe the word is true and believe in Jesus - Hebrews 11:6, Mark 16-15-16 (not faith only), James 2:24, John 12:42.
  3. Repent of your sins and transgressions - Act 2:38, Acts 17:30-31, Luke 13:3.
  4. Confess Jesus is the Son of God - Matthew 10:32-33, Acts 8:36-37.
  5. Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and to place you in Christ so Jesus can add you to His church and translate you into the Kingdom of God: Acts 2:38, Acts 2:47, Colossians 1:12-14.
    • Purpose: Acts 2:38, Mark 16:15-16, Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts 10:48, John 3:5; Luke 7:30. Read 2 Corinthians 5:17 with Galatians 3:27.
    • Action: Romans 6:3-5, Acts 8:36-38, Mark 1:9-10, John 3:23.
    • Infants need not to be baptized: Matthew 18:3, mark 10:13-15, Ezekiel 18:20, Romans 14:12.
  6. Remain faithful until death - Revelation 2:10
Remaining faithful includes things like 1 Timothy 5, hence Ephesians 2:10; James 1:22; James 2:14-26. The many parables about bearing fruit.

It is our reasonable service Romans 12:1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are getting off track of your OP....

Look, I would love to continue dialog with you, truly. However, dialog cannot continue further if you fail to present the evidence as to where in the Hebrew language that 'ereb and boqer can mean an "age/period of time"

To not have this evidence, one is forced to believe that Genesis 1 and 2 mean a literal 24 hour day and NOT an age.

Therefore your ENTIRE theory of your OP is false since it hinges its entire premise on the fact that it needs ages for evolution to happen.

When Moses was commanded to write the book of Genesis, God meant in Genesis 1 and 2 to mean specifically a one 24 hour day in each of the 6 mentioned of creation.

If it was worded differently, I could agree with you. However, grammar, context, and the definition of words used force the idea of one 24 hour day.

I gave you examples of Yowm meaning a "period of time" and "a 24 hour day".

The context is unmistakable and undeniable.
 
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Aman777

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By obeying the gospel:

  1. Hear the word - Romans 10:17, Matthew 7:24-27
  2. Believe the word is true and believe in Jesus - Hebrews 11:6, Mark 16-15-16 (not faith only), James 2:24, John 12:42.
  3. Repent of your sins and transgressions - Act 2:38, Acts 17:30-31, Luke 13:3.
  4. Confess Jesus is the Son of God - Matthew 10:32-33, Acts 8:36-37.
  5. Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and to place you in Christ so Jesus can add you to His church and translate you into the Kingdom of God: Acts 2:38, Acts 2:47, Colossians 1:12-14.
  6. Remain faithful until death - Revelation 2:10
Remaining faithful includes things like 1 Timothy 5, hence Ephesians 2:10; James 1:22; James 2:14-26. The many parables about bearing fruit.

It is our reasonable service Romans 12:1

That's Religion, or man's attempt to know God. It's also the Gospel to the Jewish people which is why I asked if you were a Jew. Campbell's Restoration Gospel supposedly restored the Hebrew Religion (another Gospel) to 19th Century Gentiles. Your idea of How we get to Heaven was all available BEFORE Jesus died to save ALL mankind (including Jews and Gentiles) through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done

Water plus works can NEVER get one to Heaven without the Gift of God which is faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Alexander Campbell preached the same thing. It's another Gospel.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 
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Acts2:38

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That's Religion, or man's attempt to know God.

No, its called following/obeying the bible. I laid down scripture that is stated as a command statement form. Mark 16:16 is a command statement. The opposite of not following a command "believe and be baptized" is to "not believe" and therefore not be baptized.

What happens when you do not obey the gospel?
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

It's also the Gospel to the Jewish people which is why I asked if you were a Jew.

The bible is the gospel to the whole world not just Jews.

Acts 2, Jews are brought the gospel.

Acts 10, Gentiles are brought the gospel (this is the rest of the world, Greeks, Germans, etc, everybody not Hebrew)

I am not a Jewish follower since I believe Jesus was the Christ, nailed to the cross and died already for our sins, and rose again on the third day. Jewish followers do not believe this.

I am a Christian. Acts 11:26. I follow what the gospel teaches me and commands me.

Campbell's Restoration Gospel supposedly restored the Hebrew Religion (another Gospel) to 19th Century Gentiles.

Alexander Campbell was just a loud voice urging people to follow what the first century Christians were taught and followed. He never started the church of Christ, the church of Christ was around since the first century before the catholic church was even a thought.

He never wanted to restore a Hebrew religion. You need to brush up on your history. He wanted people to get back on track with the first century CHRISTIANS Acts 11:26, not Hebrew.

Galatians 3:28-29

Your idea of How we get to Heaven was all available BEFORE Jesus died to save ALL mankind (including Jews and Gentiles) through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You did see all the NEW TESTAMENT verses I put forth?! Those are commands AFTER CHRISTS DEATH, burial and resurrection.

You better rethink this statement you made. Maybe you meant something else but this statement is clearly wrong to even the least knowledgeable people of scripture.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done

I'm sorry, but I am just laughing out loud here. You probably purposefully didnt post the ENTIRE verse because it doesn't do the belief you have any justice. Here is the full verse for you to see....

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

And how does one have "the washing of regeneration"?

Romans 6:3-5

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

What does baptized mean in the Koine Greek that the NT was written in? (referencing Mark 16:16)

baptizō
to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:—Baptist, baptize, wash.

Yup, I believe getting baptized in water, just like Jesus did and Paul, and MANY other people in Acts, is VERY NECESSARY.

Also, are you cherry picking verses?

Did you not read past Titus 3:5?

Titus 3:8
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Also, you are not refuting my ideas, you are trying to refute scripture in which you will never succeed.

James 1:22
James 2:14-26
Ephesians 2:10
Luke 13:6-9 (bearing fruit or you will be cut down)

Believe is a verb, an action word. You have to do something.

pisteuō it is a verb. Have you read Hebrews 11 at all?

Water plus works can NEVER get one to Heaven without the Gift of God which is faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Did you know that there is a direct verse stating that baptism gets you the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Once you are baptized, you receive the Holy Spirit.

And you have to bear fruit of your faith hence James 2:14-26.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

What is so hard to understand about this?

Heres one people abuse a lot Ephesians 2:8-9, but did they ever read verse 10?

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If you love Christ, you will do what the bible has commanded.
John 14:15
John 15:14

Alexander Campbell preached the same thing. It's another Gospel.

Alexander DID preach that people needed to be baptized Mark 16:16, but it is not another gospel.

A different gospel is what you are trying to teach, where you think baptism is not necessary.

Sorry friend, too many examples that tell me it is necessary:
  1. Jesus' Baptism - Matthew 3:13-17
  2. Day of Pentecost - Acts 2:22 and 36-47
  3. Samaria - Acts 8:4-13
  4. Ethiopian Eunuch - Acts 8:26-39
  5. Paul(Saul) - Acts 9:1-20 and 22:6-16
  6. Cornelius - Acts 101-48 and 11:1-18
  7. Lydia - Acts 16:13-15
  8. Many Corinthians - Acts 18:8


Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Yup, this is certainly something for you to think about.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, so for the FIFTH TIME (I think it is the fifth, could be more or less), please give me evidence on the OP topic discussion and stop deflecting and side lining the issue. Otherwise we should stop this thread.

You are getting off track of your OP....

Look, I would love to continue dialog with you, truly. However, dialog cannot continue further if you fail to present the evidence as to where in the Hebrew language that 'ereb and boqer can mean an "age/period of time"

To not have this evidence, one is forced to believe that Genesis 1 and 2 mean a literal 24 hour day and NOT an age.

Therefore your ENTIRE theory of your OP is false since it hinges its entire premise on the fact that it needs ages for evolution to happen.

When Moses was commanded to write the book of Genesis, God meant in Genesis 1 and 2 to mean specifically a one 24 hour day in each of the 6 mentioned of creation.

If it was worded differently, I could agree with you. However, grammar, context, and the definition of words used force the idea of one 24 hour day.

I gave you examples of Yowm meaning a "period of time" and "a 24 hour day".

The context is unmistakable and undeniable.

I am assuming you meant to answer question 5 here and agreed that the word "yowm" can change its meaning with the type of context.

This tells me that you agree that "Yowm" or "day" can mean one 24 hour day, and you agree that pending on context, that's exactly what it can mean.

However, you tried to be tricky and change the meaning of 'ereb and boqer.
You also probably know you cannot provide the evidence that states 'ereb and boqer can mean a period of time greater than the 24 hour day or in your case, "ages". Because 'ereb and boqer does not mean "ages/period of time" beyond that of a 24 hour day.

I will post this again:

The evidence I bring you putting together those Hebrew words that you for the most part agreed to......

"evening" and "morning" were the [first,second,third,fourth,fifth,sixth,seventh] "day"

'ereb + boqer = "" yowm
evening + morning = "" day

Given the context/grammar of these sentences, and the definition of those words, one is forced to conclude that this is one 24 hour day, seeing that it was "evening and morning" tied into the word "yowm" / "day".

Here is an example of "yowm" meaning a "period of time or an age"

See to 1 Kings 11:42,

"42 And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years."

"and the time..." = "Yowm" in Hebrew. It ties in with "...was forty years." to give us an idea that a "period of time or an age" has gone by. This sentence obviously does not mean one 24 hour day.

Here is another example of the Hebrew word "Yowm" used as a period of time, found in Genesis 4:3

"and in the process of time..." the word "yowm" is used, telling us that a portion of time, more than a 24 hour day, has gone by.

Back to Genesis 1, the Hebrew word for "yowm" is tied into "evening and morning were the [first, second, third, etc]" to meaning exactly ONE 24 hour day.

You must face the grammar/context of these sentences. If you truly believe the bible is the inspired word of God, you will face how the sentences are structured. Doing so, you will see that Genesis 1 is stating 24 hour days and not periods of time.
 
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Aman777

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Did you know that there is a direct verse stating that baptism gets you the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Did you know that Peter was speaking to Jews?

Once you are baptized, you receive the Holy Spirit.

And you have to bear fruit of your faith hence James 2:14-26.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Did you know that James is the message to Jews?

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Grace is UnMerited reward through FAITH, not of yourselves but a GIFT OF GOD.

That means that God should get the Glory instead of following a bunch of rules, like every other false religion, in a vain attempt to be good enough to go to Heaven. The Jews failed to fulfill their Gospel and wound up crying Crucify Jesus Christ. Restoring this false Gospel is restoring the Jewish Gospel. IF being baptized in the church of Christ baptismal is necessary for Salvation, most will be lost, according to some Campbellites. After all, they say, there is but One Church.

The biggest reason to reject your Gospel is that IF it could save us, Jesus would NOT have had to die. Scripture tells Christians to reject this man made cult. IMHO

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 
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Acts2:38

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Did you know that Peter was speaking to Jews?

Did you know in Acts 10 Peter was talking to Gentiles?

I guess you missed that part.

Did you know that James is the message to Jews?

Did you know the book of Romans, was to the Roman Christians who were in fact, Gentiles?

Romans 11:22 - How do you continue in Goodness?

Romans 12:5-16
Now compare to James 1:22 and James 2:14-26.

Same with Galatians...
Galatians 3:27 - Tell me, how do you put on Christ? I'd like to hear what you think about this. With that question in thought, if you are in Christ, you receive spiritual blessings Ephesians 1:3. So if you do not put on Christ being baptized Gal 3:27, then you have no spiritual blessings "in Christ".

Same with Corinthians... See Acts 18:8. Tell me, what happened when the GENTILE Corinthians believed? THEY WERE BAPTIZED.

Baptism is inseparably connected with salvation in so many New Testament passages (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:26-27; Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21)

You would have to be in complete denial or flat out blind. I will not speak of this any further since this is not what your OP is about. GET BACK ON TRACK ON YOUR OWN THREAD.


IF being baptized in the church of Christ baptismal is necessary for Salvation, most will be lost, according to some Campbellites. After all, they say, there is but One Church.

First, I am not a campellite, I told you this. I am also not a follower of Jewish religion.

Second, that is absolutely right, many people WILL BE LOST, as stated in Matthew 7:13-14, even people WHO THOUGHT they were Christians Matthew 7:21-23. It is because they didn't obey scripture 1 Thessalonians 1:8-9; Hebrews 6:4-6.

Thirdly, there is only ONE CHURCH. The bible makes it undeniably clear. I am not surprised you missed this.

Romans 12:4-5 [many members but one body]
1 Corinthians 12:12-27 [the body is one, with many members]
1 Corinthians 1:10 [no divisions among you]
Ephesians 4:4-6 [one body]
John 17:20-23 [Jesus prayed for unity...ONE body]

Oh hey, did you notice they are written to Gentiles too?

Look at 1 Corinthians 12:13 - "baptized into one body whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free"

You cannot escape the fact that these people were baptized and then thus saved...
  1. Jesus' Baptism - Matthew 3:13-17
  2. Day of Pentecost - Acts 2:22 and 36-47
  3. Samaria - Acts 8:4-13
  4. Ethiopian Eunuch - Acts 8:26-39
  5. Paul(Saul) - Acts 9:1-20 and 22:6-16
  6. Cornelius - Acts 10:1-48 and 11:1-18
  7. Lydia - Acts 16:13-15
  8. Many Corinthians - Acts 18:8
  9. Philippian Jailer Acts 16:25-34
Sorry, too much scriptural evidence.

CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO YOUR OP. ANSWER ME AND STOP DEFLECTING.
[This isnt an anger post, capslock had to be used to make sure you see this and respond to your own OP]

Sixth time I am posting this? Something like that. You keep deflecting and trying to get away from this because we all know you cannot provide the proof. I wish you would just admit it instead of derailing the OP thread you yourself made.

Find me that evidence that 'ereb and boqer can mean an "age"

I am assuming you meant to answer question 5 here and agreed that the word "yowm" can change its meaning with the type of context.

This tells me that you agree that "Yowm" or "day" can mean one 24 hour day, and you agree that pending on context, that's exactly what it can mean.

However, you tried to be tricky and change the meaning of 'ereb and boqer.
You also probably know you cannot provide the evidence that states 'ereb and boqer can mean a period of time greater than the 24 hour day or in your case, "ages". Because 'ereb and boqer does not mean "ages/period of time" beyond that of a 24 hour day.

I will post this again:

The evidence I bring you putting together those Hebrew words that you for the most part agreed to......

"evening" and "morning" were the [first,second,third,fourth,fifth,sixth,seventh] "day"

'ereb + boqer = "" yowm
evening + morning = "" day

Given the context/grammar of these sentences, and the definition of those words, one is forced to conclude that this is one 24 hour day, seeing that it was "evening and morning" tied into the word "yowm" / "day".

Here is an example of "yowm" meaning a "period of time or an age"

See to 1 Kings 11:42,

"42 And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years."

"and the time..." = "Yowm" in Hebrew. It ties in with "...was forty years." to give us an idea that a "period of time or an age" has gone by. This sentence obviously does not mean one 24 hour day.

Here is another example of the Hebrew word "Yowm" used as a period of time, found in Genesis 4:3

"and in the process of time..." the word "yowm" is used, telling us that a portion of time, more than a 24 hour day, has gone by.

Back to Genesis 1, the Hebrew word for "yowm" is tied into "evening and morning were the [first, second, third, etc]" to meaning exactly ONE 24 hour day.

You must face the grammar/context of these sentences. If you truly believe the bible is the inspired word of God, you will face how the sentences are structured. Doing so, you will see that Genesis 1 is stating 24 hour days and not periods of time.

You are getting off track of your OP....

Look, I would love to continue dialog with you, truly. However, dialog cannot continue further if you fail to present the evidence as to where in the Hebrew language that 'ereb and boqer can mean an "age/period of time"

To not have this evidence, one is forced to believe that Genesis 1 and 2 mean a literal 24 hour day and NOT an age.

Therefore your ENTIRE theory of your OP is false since it hinges its entire premise on the fact that it needs ages for evolution to happen.

When Moses was commanded to write the book of Genesis, God meant in Genesis 1 and 2 to mean specifically a one 24 hour day in each of the 6 mentioned of creation.

If it was worded differently, I could agree with you. However, grammar, context, and the definition of words used force the idea of one 24 hour day.

I gave you examples of Yowm meaning a "period of time" and "a 24 hour day".

The context is unmistakable and undeniable.
 
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Aman777

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Find me that evidence that 'ereb and boqer can mean an "age"

I will when you find me evidence that Genesis 1:28-31 has already happened. You cannot and that is why you post enormously long posts in an attempt to divert your inability to understand Genesis.

BTW, It's the word "Day" which in Hebrew means a period of time or age. Since the 7th Day/Yowm is Eternity and has NO beginning and NO end, NO morning and NO evening, it cannot be confined to man's time of 24 hours it takes the Earth to rotate. Amen?
 
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Acts2:38

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I will when you find me evidence that Genesis 1:28-31 has already happened.

If you cared to actually read the verses I gave you and the definition to the Hebrew words in Genesis, I actually have given you evidence.

I gave you that same evidence 6, give or take, times already.

You cannot and that is why you post enormously long posts in an attempt to divert your inability to understand Genesis.

Are we both adults here? The posts I put down wouldn't even take 5 minutes to read. Please have the attention span an adult should have.

I placed those posts because the evidence I have is overwhelming. The information I have on this topic is so overwhelming, you keep deflecting and sidelining the OP thread.

I haven't "diverted" from anything. Don't pin this on me as a deflector, you are the one who went off on a wild tangent of baptisms and such.

I tried to stay right on topic. A topic you started.

BTW, It's the word "Day" which in Hebrew means a period of time or age.

I'm face palming right now, just to let you know.

I specifically gave you the definition from the Strongs book and the Gesenius Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon book, about the words I placed down ('ereb, boqer, and yowm).

These are definitions you agreed to, however added more to 'ereb and boqer than you should have. I simply asked you where is the evidence that 'ereb and boqer means an "age". You could not do this, in fact that is when you started derailing your own OP thread.

Do you want to see the response YOU MADE to my questions?

Let's see what you said....

3- Do you agree with the meaning of the Hebrew word " 'ereb" that means "evening" defined as: "dusk:— day, even(-ing, tide), night"?
If not, please explain and give detail/evidence.

you put:
Agree, but it can also mean the end of a period of time.

YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE EVIDENCE, to why you thought it meant "a period of time"/age, but you agreed with the definition that it was a simple evening of one day.

This one of two answers I have been trying to get you to prove. Because the simple fact that you cannot, means your whole premise of "ages" is false according to grammar, definition of the Hebrew words, and context.

4- Do you agree with the meaning of the Hebrew word "boqer" that means "morning" defined as: "properly, dawn (as the break of day); generally, morning:—(+) day, early, morning, morrow."?

If not, please explain and give detail/evidence.

You put:
[you typed this in the quotation box for some reason] "Agree, but it can also mean the beginning of a period of time.

AGAIN, YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE EVIDENCE. It is because you cannot find any evidence that boqer means an "age" or "period of time". The Hebrew definition of the word is simply the morning of a day. That is why you kept trying to deflect the issue with you baptism and works posts that have nothing to do with your OP thread.

This is the second word I have been trying to get you to respond to, in which you refuse to provide you proof. I already know why though. It is because you cannot since there is not any evidence that points to such as you describe for those two words, 'ereb and boqer.

5- Do you agree that the meaning of "yowm"in Hebrew, in its proper context, can change the meaning given the definition of "yowm" used in scripture?

You said:

You yourself agree that PENDING ON CONTEXT it can change the entire meaning of the word "yowm".

Are you backing out of what you agreed too?
This is what you said in your latest post:
It's the word "Day" which in Hebrew means a period of time or age. Since the 7th Day/Yowm is Eternity and has NO beginning and NO end, NO morning and NO evening, it cannot be confined to man's time of 24 hours it takes the Earth to rotate

You agreed before that pending on context it could mean exactly a 24 hour day. Now you are changing your mind?

The Strong book says:
"יוֹם yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next),...."

Looks like a 24 hour days is described here doesn't it?

I even gave you examples to go by. Want to see again?

This is the word "yowm" to mean an "age/period of time" examples:

See to 1 Kings 11:42,

"42 And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years."

"and the time..." = "Yowm" in Hebrew. It ties in with "...was forty years." to give us an idea that a "period of time or an age" has gone by. This sentence obviously does not mean one 24 hour day.

Here is another example of the Hebrew word "Yowm" used as a period of time, found in Genesis 4:3

"and in the process of time..." the word "yowm" is used, telling us that a portion of time, more than a 24 hour day, has gone by.


This is an example of "yowm" to mean one 24 hour day:

Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, and 31. The Hebrew word for "yowm" is tied into "evening and morning were the [first, second, third, etc]" to meaning exactly ONE 24 hour day.

Given the context/grammar of these sentences, one is forced to conclude that this is one 24 hour day, seeing that it was "evening and morning" tied into the word "yowm" / "day".

Whereas 1 Kings 11:42 and Genesis 4:3, we are forced to see it as a period of time.

Let me stop this post and make another since you have a hard time following posts longer than 10 lines, because I have more evidence for you about creation being six days.
 
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Acts2:38

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I will when you find me evidence that Genesis 1:28-31 has already happened. You cannot and that is why you post enormously long posts in an attempt to divert your inability to understand Genesis.

BTW, It's the word "Day" which in Hebrew means a period of time or age. Since the 7th Day/Yowm is Eternity and has NO beginning and NO end, NO morning and NO evening, it cannot be confined to man's time of 24 hours it takes the Earth to rotate. Amen?

More evidence you have to account for....

Mark 10:6 - This makes it clear that Jesus taught the creation was young, for Adam and Eve existed “from the beginning”—not billions of years after the universe and Earth came into existence.

Ouch, that puts a dampener on your "ages" belief.

In this passage, Jesus makes it clear that one must believe what Moses wrote -- John 5:45-47

So....

If one of the passages in the writings of Moses in Exodus 20:11 states:

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Why do you not believe it?

The ruler of the synagogue in Luke 13:14, knew it was 24 hour literal days, why don't you?

Why are you putting restraints on God's power?

Psalms 33:6 and 9

Genesis 1 is not figurative language like Revelation. So stop making sound figurative. The grammar, context, and definition of words is quite clear. I cannot help people's lack of reading comprehension.
 
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Aman777

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Mark 10:6 - This makes it clear that Jesus taught the creation was young, for Adam and Eve existed “from the beginning”—not billions of years after the universe and Earth came into existence.

False religious teaching which cannot be supported Scripturally. Jesus is the Light of the first Day and it took the entire Day to make Adam's firmament on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 Our firmament/Heaven was NOT made until the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 and Adam, alone, was made on the 3rd Day from the dust of the ground. No Eve until Billions of years later AFTER all living creatures were made and named by Adam. Gen 2:19 Can you refute those verses from the KJV? Of course not.

Ouch, that puts a dampener on your "ages" belief.

False, since Adam was made to live forever with Jesus, in a perfect body, until he sinned and became flesh. Adam was made BEFORE the beginning of our Cosmos Gen 2:4-7 on the first Earth which was made in the middle of water long before our Earth was formed of the dust of the first Stars, which was close to 10 Billion years after the big bang.

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Why do you not believe it?

I do. In 6 of God's work periods, He will make a perfect Heaven and fill it with perfect Spirit filled people and then, God will rest or cease to create mankind in His Image or in Christ Spiritually. God will rest from ALL of His work of creating which He continues today. Some may think they can be good enough to get to Heaven, but we are His workmanship and Jesus deserves the credit religionists give themselves.

Genesis 1 is not figurative language like Revelation. So stop making sound figurative. The grammar, context, and definition of words is quite clear. I cannot help people's lack of reading comprehension.

Me either. All you have to do is show us that God has ALREADY rested or ceased creating according to Scripture. IF so, it's too late to be born again Spiritually in Christ. Amen? At the end of the present 6th Day/Age, God will cease creating because His perfect Heaven will be brought to perfecttion and filled with His children.

Gen 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, (brought to perfection) and ALL the host (inhabitants) of them.

This is a future event which happens after Jesus returns to this Earth, gives mankind dominion over mosquitoes and Angels and changes every living creature into Vegetarians. Gen 1:30 THEN God will rest from ALL of His work of creating. That's God's Truth Scripturally.
 
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Acts2:38

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False religious teaching which cannot be supported Scripturally. Jesus is the Light of the first Day and it took the entire Day to make Adam's firmament on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8 Our firmament/Heaven was NOT made until the 3rd Day Gen 2:4 and Adam, alone, was made on the 3rd Day from the dust of the ground. No Eve until Billions of years later AFTER all living creatures were made and named by Adam. Gen 2:19 Can you refute those verses from the KJV? Of course not.



False, since Adam was made to live forever with Jesus, in a perfect body, until he sinned and became flesh. Adam was made BEFORE the beginning of our Cosmos Gen 2:4-7 on the first Earth which was made in the middle of water long before our Earth was formed of the dust of the first Stars, which was close to 10 Billion years after the big bang.



I do. In 6 of God's work periods, He will make a perfect Heaven and fill it with perfect Spirit filled people and then, God will rest or cease to create mankind in His Image or in Christ Spiritually. God will rest from ALL of His work of creating which He continues today. Some may think they can be good enough to get to Heaven, but we are His workmanship and Jesus deserves the credit religionists give themselves.



Me either. All you have to do is show us that God has ALREADY rested or ceased creating according to Scripture. IF so, it's too late to be born again Spiritually in Christ. Amen? At the end of the present 6th Day/Age, God will cease creating because His perfect Heaven will be brought to perfecttion and filled with His children.

Gen 2:1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, (brought to perfection) and ALL the host (inhabitants) of them.

This is a future event which happens after Jesus returns to this Earth, gives mankind dominion over mosquitoes and Angels and changes every living creature into Vegetarians. Gen 1:30 THEN God will rest from ALL of His work of creating. That's God's Truth Scripturally.

Why are you avoiding the 'ereb and boqer words of my questions?

You are not providing any evidence to anything you post, only conclusions.

When you are ready to provide evidence, I will gladly respond in kind.

Until then, you have a wonderful week, take care, and continue to study scripture.
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Why are you avoiding the 'ereb and boqer words of my questions?

You are not providing any evidence to anything you post, only conclusions.

When you are ready to provide evidence, I will gladly respond in kind.

Until then, you have a wonderful week, take care, and continue to study scripture.
You'll only ever get conclusions based without evidence from his posts. Many, many people have come before you - but good luck!
 
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You'll only ever get conclusions based without evidence from his posts. Many, many people have come before you - but good luck!

God tells us that unbelievers and phonies will not be able to understand His Holy Word. Birds of a feather belong together.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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God tells us that unbelievers and phonies will not be able to understand His Holy Word.
Well, you clearly don't, so he might be onto something there, @Acts2:38 has demonstrated this beyond reasonable doubt...
 
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Well, you clearly don't, so he might be onto something there, @Acts2:38 has demonstrated this beyond reasonable doubt...

Acts 2:38 is the Gospel (good news) to Jews and the message which they rejected of Jesus:

Mat 10:5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

It's the old testament which was rejected by Jewish leaders who called for Jesus' crucifixion. Jhn 19:6 The new testament/will is that Jesus did everything necessary for our salvation by dying for our sins, being buried and rising from the dead on the third day according to the Scriptures. 1Co 15:4

Do you see the difference in the two Gospels? The Old to the Jews and the New to Jews and Gentiles? Acts 2:38 is the Jewish Gospel to repent and baptized in water but Jews rejected this good news. The New Testament Gospel of Jesus Christ was accepted by Gentiles and it proclaims that one must have the Gift of Faith, which only God can give, the saving faith, to believe that a man rose from the dead.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

The O.T. depended on works (repent be baptized etc.)
The N.T. depends on Jesus Christ and His finished work of Salvation
 
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