Is the Earth flat or round???

Isaiah60

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The KJV, though an outstanding translation, is not written in today's grammar. Therefore how people read the KJV today, who have no knowledge of 16th century linguistics, is not how it was meant to be understood. The following translations are written for today's grammar.

The MEV is the newest update to the KJV. This translation is getting popular with those who love the KJV. I give it very good marks but still like the NKJV just a little better. However, the grammar of the MEV is perfect with the Hebrew.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - Modern English Version

The ESV also contains perfect wording and grammar. But the MEV is a more solid translation overall.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - English Standard Version

The NASB, which is a translation I do not like, however does translate Gen.1:1 perfectly.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - New American Standard Bible

The NKJV is close to perfect but uses the word "firmament" which is not perfect but acceptable. The actual word is "expanse."

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - New King James Version

The RSV is also close to perfect along with the NKJV. The only mistake is the use of the word "firmament" which is still acceptable but better is the Hebrew word which is "expanse."

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - Revised Standard Version

Here is the Strong's lexicon for proof.


Firmament/expanse from The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

"H7549. רָקִיעַ râqîyaʻ, raw-kee'-ah; from H7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.

(1) Raqiya means that which is fixed and steadfast, rather than that which is solid. (1a) The application to the heavenly bodies is simple and beautful: (b) they are not fickle and uncertain in their movements, but are regulated by a law that they cannot pass over. (2) It comes from raqa (7554) which means spread out. The firmament, then is that which is spread or stretched out--hence an expanse. Thus it is extended and fixed, or fixed space. (3) The interplanetary spaces are measured out by God, and though the stars are ever moving, they generally preserve fixed relative positions; their movements are not erratic, not in straight lines, but in orbits, and thus, though ever changing, they are always the same."

As you can plainly read the word "raqiya" does not mean solid dome. Flat earthers reject the reliability of Strong's and just go by what memes and youtube says. In other words, they oppose the entire body of Christ from the beginning up to the present now. With this kind of rejection towards authority the movement cannot be considered Christian. There is no solid dome in the Bible.

Proof of plurality of "heavens"


Heaven/Heavens defined in The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

"8064. [420x] Shamayin, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused sing.

Shameh, shaw-mah'; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perb. alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): -- heaven (39x), air [21x], astrologer + 1895 [1x].

Introduction: Sometimes it signifies the atmosphere immediately surrounding the earth, in which the fowls of the air fly. Sometimes it is used of the space in which the clouds are floating. In other places it refers to the vast expanse through which the starts are moving in their courses. It is opposed to sheowl (7585), the one being regarded as a place of exaltation, the other of degradation; the one being represented as the dwelling place of the Most High and the angels of God, the other as the abode of the dead. It includes all space that is not occupied by the terrestrial globe, and extends from the air we breathe and the winds we feel around us to the firmament or expanse that contains the innumerable stars. This is includes, and exceeds for where our intellect ceases to operate, and fails to find a limit to the extension of space, there faith comes in. And while before the eye of the body there is spread out an infinity of space, the possession of the super-material nature brings us into communion with a Being whose nature and condition cannot adequately be described by terms of locality or extension. The heavens and the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him. The countless stars are not only known and numbered by Him, but are called into existence and fixed in their courses by His will and wisdom. Where He is, there the true heaven is; and the glories of the firmament faintly shadow forth the ineffable bliss that those must realize who are brought into relationship with Him.
(1) Shamayim is the usual for the sky and the realm of the sky (1a) birds fly (Duet.4:17). (1b) This area, high above the ground below the stars and heavenly bodies, is often a locus of visions (1 Chr. 21:16). (2) This word represents an area farther removed from the earth's surface (2a) from which come such things as (2a1) frost (Job 38:29), (2a2) snow (Is 55:10), (2a3) fire (Gen 19:24), (2a4) dust (Deut 28:24), (2a5) hail (Josh 10:11), and (a26) rain (Gen 8:2). (2b) This realm is God's storehouse; God is (3a) the dispenser of the stores and Lord of the realm (Deut 28:12). (2c) This meaning of shamayim occurs in Gen 1:7-8. (3) Shamayim also represents the realm in which the sun, moon, and stars are located (Gen 1:14). (4) The phrase "heaven and earth" may denote the entire creation (Gen 1:1). (5) Heaven is the dwelling place of God (Ps 2:4; Deut 4:39; 26:15). (5a) Another expression representing the dwelling place of God is "the highest heaven" [literally, the heaven of heavens] (Deut 10:14). (5b) This does not indicate height, but also an absolute--i.e., God's abode is a unique realm not to be identified with a physical creation. Syn.: 7834. See TWOT--2407a; BDB--1029c, 116a."
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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Yes brother I know
I've been a flat-earther for years now - due to the information on the internet - if it wasn't for that, I would still be a globe'er - and would probably ridicule flat-earthers, like they do on this thread.
It's simple - the Bedford level experiment - 6 miles of flat water - no curvature - proves the flat earth, just for a start.
 
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Isaiah60

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I've been a flat-earther for years now - due to the information on the internet - if it wasn't for that, I would still be a globe'er - and would probably ridicule flat-earthers, like they do on this thread.
It's simple - the Bedford level experiment - 6 miles of flat water - no curvature - proves the flat earth, just for a start.
The video shows nothing. The video I linked up proves otherwise. Besides, Scripture says the earth is a globe and I'm trusting that over youtube.
 
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Jay1971

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The video shows nothing. The video I linked up proves otherwise. Besides, Scripture says the earth is a globe and I'm trusting that over youtube.

If NASA with all the technology we have with HD Video and the Billions even Trillions of our dollars spent on lies, come up with unedited video of leaving the firmament and taking video of our Moon, Sun and Stars in Space while in HD maybe even now Ultra 4K HD video of it all and the Earth spinning and spinning around the sun. I just might kick myself in the (Burp) Can't course and again believe the lie once more :D ..

Mars isn't going to cut it either.
 
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Isaiah60

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If NASA with all the technology we have with HD Video and the Billions even Trillions of our dollars spent on lies, come up with unedited video of leaving the firmament and taking video of our Moon, Sun and Stars in Space while in HD maybe even now Ultra 4K HD video of it all and the Earth spinning and spinning around the sun. I just might kick myself in the (Burp) Can't course and again believe the lie once more :D ..

Mars isn't going to cut it either.
Sounds like the anarchist view to me. The only other people I know in this world who will agree with you are the anarchists.

Can you produce a single verse from the Bible in which you can cite here for us that says the earth is flat?
 
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Isaiah60

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This Bedford level experiment is about as rational as an ant on a basket ball asking where the curvature is?
24174387_10155543662169017_5365563438637431400_n.jpg
 
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Jay1971

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Sounds like the anarchist view to me. The only other people I know in this world who will agree with you are the anarchists.

Can you produce a single verse from the Bible in which you can cite here for us that says the earth is flat?

Go back to the beginning of this I already posted many but the word of God and His handy work already said much as proof for me.

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
 
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Isaiah60

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Go back to the beginning of this I already posted many but the word of God and His handy work already said much as proof for me.

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
Did you even bother reading my reply to your last post? You cannot use Genesis 1 anymore as it is refuted. The Strong's lexicon refutes flat earth. But let look at how one of our church fathers from the 4th century interpreted it,

The following citations are taken from Augustine’s book The Literal Meaning of Genesis, Vol.1. (Ancient Christian Writers, Vol.41).

“But if the light first created enveloped the earth on all sides, whether it was motionless or travelling round, it could not be followed anywhere by night, because it did not vacate any place to make room for night. But was it made on one side, so that as it travelled it would permit the night to follow after from the other? Although water still covered all the earth, there was nothing to prevent the massive watery sphere from having day on one side by the presence of light, and on the other side, night by the absence of light. Thus, in the evening, darkness would pass to that side from which light would be turning to the other” (p.33).

In the next citation Augustine is speaking about “The firmament in the midst of the waters.”

“Now we are seeking to know whether the Creator, who has ordered all things in measure, and number, and weight, has assigned to the mass of waters not just one proper place around the earth, but another also above the heavens, a region which has been spread around and established beyond the limits of the air” (p.47).

Augustine understands that in Scripture the waters of the earth span all around the earth. From Genesis 1 alone he gets a round, spherical earth with the firmament which spans to and beyond interstellar space. He knew the firmament was not solid and Strong’s Concordance does not provide us a definition of a solid sky either.

But perhaps you don't agree with a 4th century church father, especially the one who doubted the existence of antipodes. So lets see if we can find any Jews that agree with him to be safe.

Flavius Josephus (37-100 A.D.)

Josephus was a Jewish historian who wrote the Antiquity of the Jews in 70 A.D. We have seen how the earliest of Christian church fathers understood Scripture and now we will see how a Jewish historian understood Genesis.

“After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts; and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put it together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantage of dews” (Antiquity 1:30).

Josephus is describing how God, on the second day, placed a crystalline around the earth.

Any other verses you think mean flat?
 
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Go back to the beginning of this I already posted many but the word of God and His handy work already said much as proof for me.

Or at least your understanding of it. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, you still have something left to learn? Or are you just going to assume you already know everything?
 
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Jay1971

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Or at least your understanding of it. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, you still have something left to learn? Or are you just going to assume you already know everything?

Not Correct! I can still learn and am learning and searching Truth always and Nasa isn't going to give it to me.
God is Truth and Man are liars

I will no longer believe in a Globe Earth, sorry I work a lot and I'm not in school to learn how to have the gift of teaching folks, just isn't my gift. You have a brain that God provided, your eyes and senses as well. Most of people in the world have been brainwashed and fooled to believe in a lie, now use your brain and senses to learn or re-learn what just might be in front of you, stop with the nonsense and give God's word another hard look into of. Lets see where your mind just might be:
Just a lamp.jpg


Romans 3:5
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
 
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Go back to the beginning of this I already posted many but the word of God and His handy work already said much as proof for me.

Yet you refuse to listen to anyone about the correct interpretation of scripture. That's an indication of an unteachable spirit.

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

If you're obeying this one, why do you insist upon coming back here and doing what you're told not to do?
 
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Not Correct! I can still learn and am learning and searching Truth always and Nasa isn't going to give it to me.
God is Truth and Man are liars

Aren't you a man? Does that mean you're a liar?
 
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Can't we compromise and say it's square. It would still be flat and circum navigable too :)
The distortion of the atmosphere appears to make it round.

I'm willing to negotiate! Let's say we call it pear-shaped and we'll have a deal. :oldthumbsup:
 
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