Immaculate Conception???

The Two Leasts.

Is not God good?
Should not His people be good because He lives within them?

Why are so many believers today sound like they are seeking to doing the wrong thing instead of the right thing with God? Yes, we have to love Jesus. Yes, we have to have faith in Jesus and trust Him. We should focus on loving Jesus every day in worship and in talking to Him silently and with other believers. We have to say "I love you Jesus." as we would say to everyone else we love here on this Earth. We have to praise His name in adoration behind closed doors. We have to be thankful every moment to Jesus for His sacrifice. We have to love Jesus with every fiber of our being. For we obviously cannot lose our first love like the church of Ephesus did in Revelation 2 (Revelation 2:4). But I believe the other wrong is for people to not to love Jesus by obeying His commandments. Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15); And Jesus said to the church at Ephesus to repent and do the first works. The first works involving love.

Anyways, let’s read what Jesus actually says in Matthew 5:19. Jesus says,

“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven…” (Matthew 5:19).

Notice here in this verse it does not actually say that this person who breaks the least of these commands (and teaches others to do so) is IN the kingdom of heaven. It merely says that they will be CALLED the least in the kingdom of heaven.

But what about Matthew 11:11?

“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” (Matthew 11:11).

Who is the least in Matthew 11:11?

The "Lesser" or the "Least" in Matthew 11:11 is talking about the "Greatest" in the Kingdom. How so?

Jesus says,
“And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.” (Luke 9:46).

Jesus says,
“But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.” (Matthew 23:11).

And it is written,
33 “And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.” (Mark 9:33-37).

Here we see in the Scripture verses above that the Least in the Kingdom of Heaven is the greatest within Matthew 11:11. For the Least in Matthew 11:11 is the one who accepts, loves, and ministers to all people including children and they are a servant (i.e. least) to all people in humbleness. Those who behave as though they are lesser or least in the Kingdom are ACTUALLY the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. For those who serve in God’s Kingdom in the New Covenant by loving others is better than the greatest of the prophets such as John the Baptist. For John followed the Old Covenant ways. For John was the last of the Old Testament prophets.

However, the "Least" in Matthew 5:19 are those who break God’s commands and teach others are Least in a bad way.

How so? The rest of Scripture gives us the testimony that breaking God’s Commandments is bad and not good.

John says,
“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4)

John says,
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

Jesus says,
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness.'" (Matthew 7:21-23).

In fact, Christ says that He will send His angels and gather out of His Kingdom all who sin and practice lawlessness and cast them into the furnace of fire.

Jesus says, "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire." (Matthew 13:41-42)

Jesus tells us that by keeping His commands, it shows whether or not we truly love Him or not.

For Jesus says,
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me." (John 14:21)

And Jesus says,
"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words."(John 14:23-24).

Paul says,
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing.” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Paul says,
“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).

Conclusion: There are Two Leasts.

Matthew 5:19 and Matthew 11:11 are talking about the word “Least” from two different behavioral perspectives. One being bad because of bad behavior (Matthew 5:19) and the other being good because of good behavior (Matthew 11:11). This is not uncommon for the Word of God to speak of one thing as being mentioned as being both good and bad. There are two trees in the Garden. One good and one bad. There are two lions. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah and the roaring lion who seeks to devour you. There are two vines. The True Vine and the Vine of Sodom. There are also two “Leasts” in Scripture, as well. There are the “Least” who are the Greatest by Being the Least in Behavior and then there are the “Least” who break God’s Commands and teach others to do so.

I hope that what I had written helps someone today.
May God bless you in all manner of the Lord’s goodness.

Jason0047 said:

Again, you are suggesting that Mary plays a part in our salvation. You need to show me actual real verses that suggests this. If not, you are wasting your time, my friend.

In any event, may God bless you.

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I submitted to you a verse and ask you why the Holy Spirit had the prophet from the Old Covenant utter it then have it written as Sacred.
Thank you. May the Lord Bless you.

Jason0047 said:

No command is given to us to keep the Old Covenant Passover.

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The Last Supper was a Passover feast in which Jesus commanded us to observe in remembrance of him. So, yes, we are commanded to observe Passover. Easter is a pagan abomination, and so is the weekly Eucharist.

Jason0047 said:

I believe Paul is referring to the New Covenant Passover (i.e. the Lord's supper) in 1 Corinthians 5:8.

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Passover is Passover. Jesus never differentiated between Passover and the Last Supper

Jason0047 said:

Well, I believe these two verses are talking to Israel.

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Except that Jesus said that he came for the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24) indicating that Christians are the new Israel. Jews are Satan’s seed. (John 8:44)

Jason0047 said:

Jesus already fulfilled the Old Law at calvary. Colossians says he nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (See Colossians 2:14).

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It’s talking about the ordinances of the law of man, the Oral Law, not the Torah. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate the Jesus ended the Law of Moses on the cross.

Jason0047 said:

Jesus says,

"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." (Luke 16:16)

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Verily I say unto you, among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11

In other words, if you are not greater than John the Baptist, then the Law and the Prophets has not been fulfilled in you, which means you are still under the law.

Jason0047 said:

Jesus says,

"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." (Luke 16:16).

Why? Because Jesus was changing the Law even before the cross!

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Actually Jesus was changing his people into conformity with God’s Law, making them righteous so that they can fulfill the Law. Those who break the law are lawless (Matthew 7:21-23)

Jason0047 said:

John is talking about God's laws or commands in the New Testament and not the Old Testament.

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Really? Where’s your evidence? The commands in the OT are the same as that in the NT. Jesus was preaching the wisdom of the Law so that his followers could follow it the way it was intended. It’s not that the Law was done away with, but the Old Covenant—the covenant God made with Israel was canceled out because they failed to obey God.

Jason0047 said:

So Paul is saying here in verse 4 that if a believer seeks to be justified by the law (i.e. the Old Law), they have fallen from grace. Why? Because the Old Covenant Law is no more in effect.

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It’s not because the Law is no longer in effect, but because the believer thinks he can be justified by following only one specific mandate of the Law without obeying the rest of it.

Jason0047 said:

The law was a school master to bring us unto Christ. "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:25).

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The righteous have graduated from the Law. The end of the law was to lead us to the path of perfection and righteousness. Jesus was in this graduated state, and his followers are supposed to be too. But if you are breaking the law, then you haven’t graduated, it is still your “school master”.

Jason0047 said:

"But now we are delivered from the law," (Romans 7:6).

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...because the law cannot condemn the righteous. If we break the law, then we are not righteous.

Jason0047 said:

As for Romans 6:15:

Well, Romans 6:15 says,

"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

Now, you believe we are under the Law. But Paul says we are not under the Old Law by saying, shall we sin because we are not under the Law?

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If you break the Law, you sin. If you sin, you are still under the Law and not under grace.

Jason0047 said:

Please take note that the Gentiles in verse 25 were not commanded to observe such Jewish customs or things. The commands to Gentiles was different.

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True, but Christians are Israel (Matthew 15:24). We are not Gentiles. I am not a Galatian or a Roman, and neither are you.

Jason0047 said:

"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin." (Romans 7:25) (GNT).

In other words, Paul says that on his own without Jesus Christ, he will try and serve God's law in his mind but his body will still struggle with sin. This is because as a Pharisee, he did not yet put on the Lord Jesus Christ so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14).

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Oh come on now. He is saying that he cannot serve God’s law while still sinning. God’s law can be observed (and fulfilled) in righteousness, not in sin.

Jason0047 said:

But Paul says we are dead to the Old Law.

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No, he did not say that. He said we are dead to sin, which is what the law condemns. To be dead to sin is to be free from the Law, but if you think the New Covenant frees you from observing the Sabbaths and Feasts, then you are sadly mistaken. Failing to do so is to break the Law, and the Law is not fulfilled within you via Jesus.

Jason0047 said:

and not the ceremonial laws (Like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, and the dietary laws, etc.) that are no more binding for believers under the New Covenant.

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The New Covenant does not set us free from the ceremonial laws, only the law of sacrifice. The New covenant is actually the renewed covenant, or restored covenant. This is in keeping of Jeremiah’s prophecy. Jesus put God’s law “in their inward parts, and [wrote] it in their hearts”. This is what it means when he fulfilled the Law. You are also confusing “Law” with “Covenant”. They are not the same thing. The Law is God’s instructions. The covenant is God terms and agreement with those who obey him. The Old Covenant was canceled because the Israelites broke God’s law, not because they couldn’t obey it, but because they wouldn’t. As a result, God divorced Israel and sent her into exile. Jesus came to restore God’s covenant in those who believed his message.

If you disagree with this then you may as well just rip out the Old Testament from your Bible, as well as Jesus’ ministry since you’re so focused on the cross. I, on the other hand, am focused on God’s law.

As for these posts:

Jason0047 said:

Nowhere is there a command forbidding us to eat meat in the New Testament.

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Jason0047 said:

These words are still true. They have to be. Yet, by what you said these words would not be true by Jesus.

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Please consider visiting this thread and examine what I’ve posted there and I will address your arguments concerning meat there. There is no need to debate about something that is off-topic under this thread. As it is, we already have.

Eloy Craft said:

I submitted to you a verse and ask you why the Holy Spirit had the prophet from the Old Covenant utter it then have it written as Sacred.
Thank you. May the Lord Bless you.

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The last piece of Scripture I remember you quoting to me was:

Luke 2
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

I am not sure what you are getting at in what you say vs. what this passage says. Maybe you should explain it to me instead of me trying to guess about what you believe.

I also do not see how this proves your favor of the idea that Mary plays a part in our salvation. Besides her being the one who gave birth to Jesus, I do not see how she would save us beyond her just giving us the One (Jesus) who is salvation itself. Again, please bring forth verses. If you do not explain what you are getting with Scripture, I am afraid I will simply move on beyond your posts.

In any event, may God bless you.

MountainPine said:

The Last Supper was a Passover feast in which Jesus commanded us to observe in remembrance of him. So, yes, we are commanded to observe Passover.

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Now, while Jesus did keep a Passover at the prescribed correct time of the Old Passover, it was technically not the Old Covenant Passover because they did not partake in remembrance of the Exodus but they were to partake of the meal in remembrance of Jesus. He said that the fruit of the vine in the cup was representative of His blood for the New Testament (i.e. the New Covenant). Nowhere is this observance found before in the Old Covenant. So it is a New Passover and it is not the Old Passover.

27 "And he took the cup, and gave thanks,
and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament,
which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
(Matthew 26:27-28).

MountainPine said:

Easter is a pagan abomination,

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The secular modern day holiday called "Easter" (that celebrates fertility) is an abomination; However, the word "easter" mentioned in the KJV is not pagan in origin. See this article here (if you are interested).

You said:

...and so is the weekly Eucharist.

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Granted, the word "Eucharist" can simply mean the Lord's supper (even among Non-Catholic churches) according to Wikipedia. However, I never felt comfortable using this word. In my personal experience: Most Catholics I have talked with refer to the Lord's supper as the Eucharist. The problem with the Catholic Eucharist is that they add a level of mysticism to it that is not Biblical (IMO).

You said:

Passover is Passover. Jesus never differentiated between Passover and the Last Supper

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Not true. There was a big difference. In the Old Passover, it was a night to be much remembered in regards to the Exodus. But instead, Jesus told us to partake of the bread and wine. He told us to focus on these new elements as the importance of the New Covenant (Which would play a part in reminding them of His death the next day).

You said:

Except that Jesus said that he came for the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24) indicating that Christians are the new Israel. Jews are Satan’s seed. (John 8:44)

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The 144,000 are Messianic Jews in the future.

As for the nation of Israel:

• Romans 11:23-24 NLT

"And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree. You, by nature, were a branch cut from a wild olive tree. So if God was willing to do something contrary to nature by grafting you into his cultivated tree, he will be far more eager to graft the original branches back into the tree where they belong."

You said:

It’s talking about the ordinances of the law of man, the Oral Law, not the Torah. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate the Jesus ended the Law of Moses on the cross.

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"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13).

You said:

Verily I say unto you, among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11

In other words, if you are not greater than John the Baptist, then the Law and the Prophets has not been fulfilled in you, which means you are still under the law.

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No. Jesus said the Law and the Prophets ended with John (the Baptist). Jesus is saying that the least (i.e. those who serve in the New Covenant) are greater than John the Baptist because they are preaching the good news of Jesus Christ and helping the poor and loving their enemies, loving the brethren, etc.

You said:

Actually Jesus was changing his people into conformity with God’s Law, making them righteous so that they can fulfill the Law. Those who break the law are lawless (Matthew 7:21-23)

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While it is true that those who break the Law are lawless, the Old Law was not the key focus of Jesus's teachings. The Moral Law that existed even before the Written Law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc.). Jesus gave us completely new teachings in the New Covenant and not laws that were exclusive to Israel by the Law of Moses.

You said:

Really? Where’s your evidence? The commands in the OT are the same as that in the NT. Jesus was preaching the wisdom of the Law so that his followers could follow it the way it was intended. It’s not that the Law was done away with, but the Old Covenant—the covenant God made with Israel was canceled out because they failed to obey God.

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I already pointed out the evidence to you. The Bible is clear that the commands between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are not exactly the same. Even the Moral Laws like "Do not commit adultery" is not attached with any capital punishment. Jesus made it clear that things are different now. The Laws on stoning do not apply to us Christians today. We do not go out stoning each other if we see another brother break the Law. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

You said:

It’s not because the Law is no longer in effect, but because the believer thinks he can be justified by following only one specific mandate of the Law without obeying the rest of it.

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Sorry. That line of thinking does not match up with what is said in Galatians 5 or any chapter in the Bible. That is not the point Paul made in Galatians 5:4. He says if you seek to be justified by the Law you have fallen from grace. Paul is referring to the Old Law because circumcision is a command in the OT and not the NT.

You said:

The righteous have graduated from the Law. The end of the law was to lead us to the path of perfection and righteousness. Jesus was in this graduated state, and his followers are supposed to be too. But if you are breaking the law, then you haven’t graduated, it is still your “school master”.

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Yeah, that does not match up with what Galatians says.

23 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:23-24).

Clearly it's talking about two covenants here.
Before faith in Christ came, they were kept under the Law.

You said:

...because the law cannot condemn the righteous. If we break the law, then we are not righteous.

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No. The context says no such thing. The context is talking about how we should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6). Meaning, we are to primarily look to the New Covenant to obey God and we are not look to the Old Covenant to obey God. For we are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers.

You said:

If you break the Law, you sin. If you sin, you are still under the Law and not under grace.

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Paul points out what is sin that leads to spiritual death in several places (Romans 1:28-32, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Colossians 3:5-6, Ephesians 5:3-7). Paul does not mention the breaking of the ceremonial laws like: Circumcision, the Saturday Sabbath, the dietary laws as being sins under the New Covenant (let alone the kind of sins that can lead to spiritual death). So when Paul talks about "sin" he is referring to the breaking of the Moral Law because that is what Paul condemned. But what you are ignoring is that Paul said that we are not under the Law. You really cannot get around that one.

You said:

True, but Christians are Israel (Matthew 15:24). We are not Gentiles. I am not a Galatian or a Roman, and neither are you.

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While it is true that New Covenant believers are spiritual Israel, and one day they will be resurrected after the physical DNA of a Jew (i.e. Jesus Christ), many of them are still physically Gentiles still while they live here on this Earth.

You said:

Oh come on now. He is saying that he cannot serve God’s law while still sinning. God’s law can be observed (and fulfilled) in righteousness, not in sin.

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No. Paul was struggling to obey the Law but he was failing because it was all about the Law alone when he was a Pharisee. The only way He could get victory over his sin was by Jesus Christ. Paul had to trust in Jesus as His Savior and then allow the Lord Jesus to work through His life to overcome His sin. Paul (Saul) could not do it on his own without Jesus. For Jesus said that without me, you can do nothing.

Jason0047 said:

But Paul says we are dead to the Old Law.

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You said:

No, he did not say that. He said we are dead to sin, which is what the law condemns.

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Not true.

For it is written,
"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;" (Romans 7:4).

You said:

To be dead to sin is to be free from the Law, but if you think the New Covenant frees you from observing the Sabbaths and Feasts, then you are sadly mistaken. Failing to do so is to break the Law, and the Law is not fulfilled within you via Jesus.

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Paul says we are not to judge according to Sabbaths.

16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
(Colossians 2:16-17).

Meaning, we cannot condemn anyone for not keeping the Sabbaths or holy days. So if this is the case, then we are not obligated to obey these laws. In fact, you will not find any place in the New Testament where any of the ceremonial OT commands are given as commandments to us.

You said:

The New Covenant does not set us free from the ceremonial laws, only the law of sacrifice. The New covenant is actually the renewed covenant, or restored covenant. This is in keeping of Jeremiah’s prophecy. Jesus put God’s law “in their inward parts, and [wrote] it in their hearts”. This is what it means when he fulfilled the Law. You are also confusing “Law” with “Covenant”. They are not the same thing. The Law is God’s instructions. The covenant is God terms and agreement with those who obey him. The Old Covenant was canceled because the Israelites broke God’s law, not because they couldn’t obey it, but because they wouldn’t. As a result, God divorced Israel and sent her into exile. Jesus came to restore God’s covenant in those who believed his message.

If you disagree with this then you may as well just rip out the Old Testament from your Bible, as well as Jesus’ ministry since you’re so focused on the cross. I, on the other hand, am focused on God’s law.

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While many of the OT Laws have been abrogated, that does not mean we as believers ignore them. There is a Typology of Christ in the OT Laws. For all the Scriptures speak of Jesus Christ. There are also still many laws that appear to be identical (like the Moral Law).

You said:

Please consider visiting this thread and examine what I’ve posted there and I will address your arguments concerning meat there. There is no need to debate about something that is off-topic under this thread. As it is, we already have.

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It is pretty obvious that we are allowed to eat meat in both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. I am not going to argue against something that is obvious and clear for all to see. Even in the OT Passover, they ate it. The OT Passover meal involved meat. Not sure where you are coming up with this whole vegetarian angle here. It does not make any sense.

This is who "Mary" really is:

https://taylormarshall.com/2013/12/3-easy-arguments-for-the-immaculate-conception-of-mary.html

Jesus clearly taught that you shall know the tree by it's FRUIT!!! Now listen CAREFULLY to the Holy Spirit speaking through St. Elizabeth "Blessed is the FRUIT of your womb"! A rotten tree CANNOT bear good fruit...

On the day of EVERY female child's birth there are a million of so oocytes in her ovaries. these are the cells (arrested in prophase 1 of mitosis) that become human bodies through fertilization! SIMPLE BIOLOGY. Which means that the cell which became your physical body was in your Mother's ovaries on the day she was born! It was developing in her from her conception (and in the first couple of weeks indistinguishable from her developing body and SHARING THE SAME NATURE!) which means that the cell that became the body of our Lord Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God was in Mary FROM HER CONCEPTION!!! Simple Biology!

If Mary was sinful, then how was the growing physical reality of the "sinless" Son of God" remain sinless in those times of early and indistinguishable development. Mary was conceived "without sin" not because of her own merit, BUT BECAUSE OF THIS SIMPLE BIOLOGICAL PROCESS that brought the sinless Son of God to flesh!!!

The un-intended (or intended by demonic influences) consequence of denying the Immaculate Conception implicitly argues that (since Christ said that "all who sin are slaves of sin" (i.e. under satan's dominion) that if Mary was born in sin, then satan must have had an active role, and power in the Incarnation of God's Only Begotten Son. This is unacceptable to the true believer and frankly demonic since Christ CLEARLY states that Satan HAS NO POWER OVER HIM!!!

1stcenturylady said:

It is not scripturally confirmed. It is merely
a "holy tradition"
without authority,
except in their own minds.

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And their minds are suspect, along with
their theology, because none of them
had the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Spiritually deficient because of that.
(I wonder if this pope is the only one
in history not being "God on earth"?)

BCsenior said:

And their minds are suspect, along with
their theology, because none of them
had the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Spiritually deficient because of that.
(I wonder if this pope is the only one
in history not being "God on earth"?)

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serious Accusations

do remember, speaking wrongly about the holy spirit is the unforgivable sin

Jesus Christ = Davidic king
Mary = Gebirah queen mother, 1 Ki 2:19
Pope = Peter = prime minister, eg Eliakim in Isaiah 22