What is the fate of animals when they die?

LoricaLady

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I never added anything or subtracted anything. I simply said that God breathed the life in Adam. Did he breath in a wolf? A cat? The Bible does not state that. The Bible states that he breathed life into Adam and Adam only.

Man was made in God's image. The Bible does not say a wolf was. Neither a cat. Nor a fish.

You have always strongly condemned me in any conversation I've had with you. You are making it very hard for me to be polite to you. I suggest you stop judging me and making accusations.
Since the topic of this string is what happens to animals after they die, I just assumed that your comment was related to that topic, not just a random, unrelated remark.
 
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Invalidusername

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Since the topic of this string is what happens to animals after they die, I just assumed that your comment was related to that topic, not just a random, unrelated remark.

My quote was a comment of why I thought they didn't have an everlasting soul. I did not subtract or add anything from scripture. I simply said that it made sense to me that they don't have an eternal soul because of how the Bible specifies that God breathed the life in man but does not specify that about animals.

If you think that comment is worthy of the eternal condemnation from Revelations then fine
 
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LoricaLady

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My quote was a comment of why I thought they didn't have an everlasting soul. I did not subtract or add anything from scripture. I simply said that it made sense to me that they don't have an eternal soul because of how the Bible specifies that God breathed the life in man but does not specify that about animals.

If you think that comment is worthy of the eternal condemnation from Revelations then fine
Of course I never said anything about eternal condemnation. Let's stay on topic and not add to, or subtract from, what others have said.

I did ask a question. Would you please answer it, and in fact, I will expand on it with an additional question:
1. Those animals seen in Heaven - like the white horses and that eagle - did the Father breathe life into them as He did with Adam? Yes or no please.
2. Do you think those animals in Heaven have eternal souls? Yes or no please. (And btw per my understanding many animals, called "creatures" in our language, are seen worshiping at the Throne in Revelation.)
 
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Invalidusername

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Of course I never said anything about eternal condemnation. Let's stay on topic and not add to, or subtract from, what others have said.

I did ask a question. Would you please answer it, and in fact, I will expand on it with an additional question:
1. Those animals seen in Heaven - like the white horses and that eagle - did the Father breathe life into them as He did with Adam? Yes or no please.
2. Do you think those animals in Heaven have eternal souls? Yes or no please. (And btw per my understanding many animals, called "creatures" in our language, are seen worshiping at the Throne in Revelation.)

A lot of things in revelations are symbolic and aren't understood yet. Like one symbol we do understand in revelations is that the lamb represent Jesus. The lamb isn't an actual lamb but it represents Jesus.

Even if those animals aren't symbolic, the Bible doesn't seem to refer that God breathed life into the animals. If you have a verse to prove me wrong then show it. I am always open to learning new things.

And second I don't think so. Like I said, those creatures worshiping could be symbolic. Kind of like how God separates the sheep from the goats which is a symbol of God separating the non-believers(the goats) and believers(the sheep). I am not a Bible scholar but honestly from what I've seen the Bible does not seem to regard animals as eternal. There is very few Bible verses that talks about how we treat animals vs the PLETHORA of verses how we need to treat our fellow humans.

Also: Ecclesiastes 3:11 "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end."

The verse above says that God has placed eternity in the human heart. Nothing about animal hearts.

My opinion which has no scriptural merit: I don't think animals have the same level of awareness as humans do and whatever awareness they have is very basic almost like a robot. They can react to instinct and they can react to pain and happiness but its a very superficial level compared to humans. They however were designed to be companions to humans and are God's design so there is never an excuse to mistreat them. However it is far worse to mistreat a human than an animal.
 
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LoricaLady

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A lot of things in revelations are symbolic and aren't understood yet. Like one symbol we do understand in revelations is that the lamb represent Jesus. The lamb isn't an actual lamb but it represents Jesus.

Even if those animals aren't symbolic, the Bible doesn't seem to refer that God breathed life into the animals. If you have a verse to prove me wrong then show it. I am always open to learning new things.

And second I don't think so. Like I said, those creatures worshiping could be symbolic. Kind of like how God separates the sheep from the goats which is a symbol of God separating the non-believers(the goats) and believers(the sheep). I am not a Bible scholar but honestly from what I've seen the Bible does not seem to regard animals as eternal. There is very few Bible verses that talks about how we treat animals vs the PLETHORA of verses how we need to treat our fellow humans.

Also: Ecclesiastes 3:11 "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end."

The verse above says that God has placed eternity in the human heart. Nothing about animal hearts.

My opinion which has no scriptural merit: I don't think animals have the same level of awareness as humans do and whatever awareness they have is very basic almost like a robot. They can react to instinct and they can react to pain and happiness but its a very superficial level compared to humans. They however were designed to be companions to humans and are God's design so there is never an excuse to mistreat them. However it is far worse to mistreat a human than an animal.
"Could be symbolic....could be symbolic....could be symbolic." Well you are free to your opinions and analysis. No way I think the white horse Messiah comes back on is symbolic, ditto all the other animals mentioned in Revelation, as with the Cherubim. I see nothing in those verses, either, to indicate that they are symbolic.

I can see this exchange is not getting anywhere so I am leaving this string. Blessings and bye!
 
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Invalidusername

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"Could be symbolic....could be symbolic....could be symbolic." Well you are free to your opinions and analysis. No way I think the white horse Messiah comes back on is symbolic, ditto all the other animals mentioned in Revelation, as with the Cherubim. I see nothing in those verses, either, to indicate that they are symbolic.

I can see this exchange is not getting anywhere so I am leaving this string. Blessings and bye!

Very Christ-like and very open-minded. Great to talk to you and glad you read my scripture and ignored it. Good to see where you stand.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What is the fate of animals when they die?

Scripture is silent on such things. We do know that, in the end, God will restore and renew all things, even describing the presence of animals in the renewed creation; but whether or not God will bring back, say, a beloved pet in the Age to Come we can't say, because we don't know.

Trust God. He cares and loves all His creation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Anguspure

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There is no clear scripture which indicates God created the animal kingdoms with souls (psyche) or spirits. (Pneuma) They have only bodies and instincts. When their bodies die, nothing remains but their returning to dust.
The Hebrew word translated as soul is "nephesh" (נֶ֫פֶשׁ‬ nép̄eš). The same word is used of animals and humans.

The only reason that we do not see this in our Bibles is because the translators have chosen to make it this way. But in Hebrew there is no distinction.

IN GENESIS 9:4-16 THE SAME WORD IS USED FOR BOTH MAN AND ANIMALS
SEVEN TIMES IN THE SAME PASSAGE.
. To animals five times, to man four times
. THREE TIMES TO ANIMALS ALONE
. TWO TIMES TO ANIMALS AND MAN TOGETHER
. TWO TIMES TO MAN ALONE

"But flesh with the LIFE [soul - nehphesh, used referring to animals] thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall you not eat. And surely your blood, the blood of your LIVES[soul - nehphesh, used referring to man], will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it: and at the hand of men, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the LIFE[soul - nehphesh, used referring to man] of man. Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God made he men. And you, be you fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. And God spoke unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you and with your seed after you; And every LIVING CREATURE [soul - nehphesh, used referring to animals] that is with you, of the fowl, and the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall the waters of a flood cut off all flesh be any more; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every LIVING CREATURE [soul - nehphesh, used referring to animals] that is with you, for perpetual generation: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every LIVING CREATURE[soul - nehphesh, used referring to man and animals] of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every LIVING CREATURE [soul - nehphesh, used referring to man and animals] of all flesh that is upon the earth." (W R West)
 
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Anguspure

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Yep. The spirit of man returns to God, the spirit of animals goes down to the Earth and is no more. This doesn't mean anyone doesn't like or love animals...it's just an honest position based on scripture and not on personal desire or hope. I would love to reunite with my first cat from back when I was about 7 years old but I can't prove such a thing from the scriptures. I hope I am wrong in my current conclusions but I have to be honest and admit I simply can't prove animals resurrect, have an afterlife or even exist in the NHNE.
I cannot find the scripture that makes this distinction, are you able to provide it please?
 
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Anguspure

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So which does God reside on?
As we can see from the Gospel accounts, the resurrected Jesus resides wherever He pleases. We also in our resurrection state will go to be with Him in Heaven (John 14), and also be able to live on this Earth and the Heavens and the Earth to come.
 
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akaDaScribe

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2 Peter 2:12, natural beasts Made for taken n slaughtered.

That is talking about people talking about powers etc that they are ignorant about
1. Throughout the Bible we have explicit examples of how man shall achieve eternal salvation (by the Grace of God in the form of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ) by believing in him (John 3:16).
2. It is not a Law, but God's Grace that takes us to heaven.
3. Jesus said I go to prepare a place for YOU.
4. God created man in their own image. Not animals. If heaven were for animals He would have told us so.
In order to be saved we must have a soul and must have choice and with those two things we are given the opportunity to be saved and live forever with God. Animals have neither.

I don't think the fact that the Bible does not say, negates or confirms anything. As for salvation, animals did not sin, so do they need salvation?
 
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brinny

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As we can see from the Gospel accounts, the resurrected Jesus resides wherever He pleases. We also in our resurrection state will go to be with Him in Heaven (John 14), and also be able to live on this Earth and the Heavens and the Earth to come.

Sounds confusing.
 
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jameseb

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Personally, knowing the bonds that form between people and animals, I believe we'll seem them again in Heaven. I don't believe there could be that bond without God's hand in it. It's what I believe anyway.
 
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brinny

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Personally, knowing the bonds that form between people and animals, I believe we'll seem them again in Heaven. I don't believe there could be that bond without God's hand in it. It's what I believe anyway.

I agree. I believe that affinity for animals that man has is given by God.
 
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Anguspure

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Sounds confusing.
How so? I wouldn't have thought it is any more confusing than considering whether a person is living in this town or that.

The first thing to realise is that in a free world where people can travel the person might be living in either of them at any time they choose. Certainly God is free to hang out wherever suits Him.
 
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LoricaLady

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Personally, knowing the bonds that form between people and animals, I believe we'll seem them again in Heaven. I don't believe there could be that bond without God's hand in it. It's what I believe anyway.
I am going to say something else about animals which makes me think some, at least, will go Heaven. If anyone wants to argue about it, I probably won't respond. Either you see it or you don't, or maybe you will later.

First the topic of one-ness in the Bible. Hebrews 3:8 "Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah, as on that day at Massah in the wilderness...."

No one, who was listening to those words, living over 2000 years after they were spoke n, seems to have said, "Whaddaya mean as WE did? That was a long time ago. We weren't even there."

Then there were all the prophecies to the Israelites (like see Deut. 28 to see how accurate) where Moses would say things like, speaking of many generations to come, "You will go after other gods...." and not "They, your descendants, will go after other gods" and so on. (History and the Bible show how true that was.)
Now Moses spoke to those there as if they were the people of the future, not disconnected from them by time.

When major sacrifices were made in the Temple, they were made for all Israel as a unit. Yes, there were sin offerings for individuals, but offerings for the whole nation were going on all the time.

What does that have to do with animals? Well, why would them being sacrficied, and their blood being shed, have any benefit for humans? Why wouldn't YHWH, aka God, accept the plants offered up by Cain? No, He wanted the blood of an animal. When Ninevah sinned, why did even the animals have to be dressed in sack cloth and ashes? Why did animals have to die with the Great Flood?

There is one-ness to all life, on a supernatural level. That's what I believe. If you don't, oh well, as I said, you see it or you don't. Because of that one-ness, well, that's just one of various reasons why I believe animals do indeed, at least some of them, go to Heaven.
 
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brinny

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How so? I wouldn't have thought it is any more confusing than considering whether a person is living in this town or that.

The first thing to realise is that in a free world where people can travel the person might be living in either of them at any time they choose. Certainly God is free to hang out wherever suits Him.

Ok.
 
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