Is the 6th seal about the destruction of Jerusalem?

claninja

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IF you take the time to do a deep level investigation you will find that it is impossible for the Book of Revelation to be applied to 70 AD as you prefer to apply it , all evidence shows the it was written in 96 AD - but the real point is even if it was written in 74 AD - it is still impossible to accurately apply it to the 70 AD account of the temple destruction - it was not written before 70 AD which is proof enough that it is not at all about that temple.
Instead of accepting the obvious you are preferring to apply scripture to something it has no relation to which results in your misunderstanding.

The debate over whether revelation was written before or after 70 ad, is one that has lasted over 1000 years. When one states 'ALL' the evidence shows that the book was written in 96AD, it shows that they have not actually looked at 'all' the evidence.

Another flaw in your statement is where you are using John 1 to be the same as the Book of Revelation - John 1 is speaking of how Almighty God came to earth as a human man to those of His chosen and they did not know him , they did not accept him ,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

In the Book of Rev it is all about Jesus Returning to earth , after the people of earth have learned that he is God incarnate in the flesh
entirely different than book of John

I apologize. thank you for noticing my typo. I quoted Revelation 1:1,4 but for some reason typed John 1:1,4. The verse is correct, just accidentally typed John instead of Revelation.

Revelation 1:1,4 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must SOON COME TO PASS. John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

It is literally directed at a first century audience.
Audience relevance is very important. John, in revelation, was writing to the 7 churches in asia about things that were SOON COMING. It doesn't really make sense for John to tell the church about SOON COMING things that they would see, if they actually didn’t see them. And they wouldn’t occur for another 2000+ years to an entirely different audience.

There is greater level of famine in these latter days than there was in those days , the matter of currency is something that is important to understand , but it itself is a whole matter unto itself pertaining to these last days we now are living in - properly understood the Last Days is a reference to the last days just before the return of Jesus to reign on earth

So John wasn’t really prophesying about things soon to come? For example, if it was soon, then the Roman denarius would have been the currency and it would fit within the time frame.

No instead, your saying it wasn’t really to occur soon. It was to occur 2000+ years later and John was actually prophesying about the crypto currency called ‘denarius’?
 
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claninja

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But plainly and obviously they thought wrongly.
The culmination of the ages has NOT yet come.

So according to you, the disciples were wrong. They, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, wrote epistles and in error taught that they were living at the end of the age.

Why do you think they erroneously thought they were living at the end of the age?

Did some one tell them that the end of the age would occur during their generation? Where did they get this idea from?
 
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DavidPT

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IF you take the time to do a deep level investigation you will find that it is impossible for the Book of Revelation to be applied to 70 AD as you prefer to apply it , all evidence shows the it was written in 96 AD - but the real point is even if it was written in 74 AD - it is still impossible to accurately apply it to the 70 AD account of the temple destruction - it was not written before 70 AD which is proof enough that it is not at all about that temple.
Instead of accepting the obvious you are preferring to apply scripture to something it has no relation to which results in your misunderstanding.

If the book of Revelation was written after 70 AD, but that the prophecies concerned 70 AD, that would be pure nonsense. Prophecies predict the future. Post 70 AD would be after the fact, thus, if the book of Revelation were written after 70 AD, none of the prophecies would have to do with the events of 70 AD then.

Preterists apparently need the book of Revelation to have been written prior to 70 AD in order for their theories to alledgedly work. But let's say it was written before 70 AD. So what. That by itself still wouldn't undeniably prove the Preterist interpretations have to be correct then. But in the minds of Preterists though, if it was written prior to 70 AD, that proves they are correct to conclude what they do. But not if the texts they claim to mean what they take it to mean are not even meaning what they take it to mean, but are meaning something else instead, regardless that the book of Revelation was written prior to 70 AD, that assuming it was.
 
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DavidPT

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Just because we disagree on when it is fulfilled, doesn't mean I'm ignoring it. We just disagree on its meaning.

Fair point. We'll just leave it at that for the time being.


Earthly Jerusalem was a slave and was to be cast out to never inherit anything with those of the true city: heavenly Jerusalem.
Galatians 4:30 “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.
Until the temple was destroyed, the way to the holy place would not be revealed
Hebrews 9:8-9 By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first tabernacle is still standing9(which is symbolic for the present age).
The gentiles trampled Jerusalem at the start of the Jewish-Roman war in 66ad, all the way until the city and sanctuary were destroyed in 70AD. Thus God, using the roman armies to inflict vengeance on Jerusalem for the blood of prophets, removed the first tabernacle, revealing that the way into the holy places had been opened. The slave was cast out and the kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to a new nation. The true Jerusalem in heaven was revealed, never to be trampled by anyone, while the earthly jerusalem, the shadow of the heavenly, was cast out.

Yet I'm not seeing how the times of the Gentiles can already be fulfilled?

What about a passage like the following?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


If the fulness of the Gentiles is yet to come in in it's entirety, doesn't that logically infer we are still in the times of the Gentiles until at least that occurs?

is this time period also the same 42 months (1260 days) where the woman is nourished?
revelation 12:6
The woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for one thousand two hundred sixty days.

I haven't fully made my mind up about things such as that in Revelation 12. If there is a 3.5 year period in Revelation 11, and another one in Revelation 13, you would think it would have to fit one of these two time periods. I haven't fully made my mind up as to which though, assuming it would have to fit one or the other.
 
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claninja

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If the book of Revelation was written after 70 AD, but that the prophecies concerned 70 AD, that would be pure nonsense. Prophecies predict the future. Post 70 AD would be after the fact, thus, if the book of Revelation were written after 70 AD, none of the prophecies would have to do with the events of 70 AD then.

I agree with this.

Preterists apparently need the book of Revelation to have been written prior to 70 AD in order for their theories to alledgedly work.

Not just 'apparently' need it to be before 70ad, but absolutely have to have it placed before 70 ad.

But let's say it was written before 70 AD. So what. That by itself still wouldn't undeniably prove the Preterist interpretations have to be correct then.

Agree. There are so many different interpretations of revelation, who has it right? Just as futurists disagree on what the symbols mean for the 'future', not all preterists agree with the symbol's 'historical' meaning.

Personally, I think it a cruel joke to write to the 7 churches in Asia who were being persecuted and to say this right off the bat:

Revelation 1:1-4
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants WHAT MUST SOON TAKE PLACE. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because THE TIME IS NEAR.

But in the minds of Preterists though, if it was written prior to 70 AD, that proves they are correct to conclude what they do.

I wouldn't say it proves it 100%, but it definitely helps their case.

Yet I'm not seeing how the times of the Gentiles can already be fulfilled?

During the old covenant, earthly Israel land was the promise to the Jewish race. This was only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It was only a picture of the true Jerusalem and of Christ.

Under the old covenant, gentiles (Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome) trampled the earthly Jerusalem, until the time came for God to destroy the 1st tabernacle, using the romans armies, and revealed the way to the holy place, the Jerusalem above.

Galatians 4:26, 31But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

If the earthly Jerusalem is still the city of our promise under the new covenant, than I agree, it is still being trampled by nations and we still await to have this earthly piece of real estate again. However, if our inheritance is the heavenly city of Jerusalem, in which the way to it was manifested at the destruction of the tabernacle, then no, the gentiles are not still not trampling Jerusalem, as it is in heaven.

By this arrangement the Holy Spirit was showing that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle is still standing. It is an illustration for the present time

What about a passage like the following?
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
If the fulness of the Gentiles is yet to come in in it's entirety, doesn't that logically infer we are still in the times of the Gentiles until at least that occurs?

This statement has to do with gentile salvation.The times of gentiles as quoted by Jesus appears to involve gentiles trampling Jerusalem and killing its citizens. One is about salvation, the other about destroying Jerusalem.

It also depends on when the of times of gentiles began. Personally, I believe it began when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem, and it ended when Rome destroyed it again after being rebuilt.

Some believe the times of the gentiles began at the destruction of Jerusalem. If this is the case, then it is definitely not the same as the fullness of the gentiles in romans 11. As they would have 2 different starting points: according to Jesus at the destruction of Jerusalem; according to Paul, during his lifetime (before destruction) of Jerusalem.

I haven't fully made my mind up about things such as that in Revelation 12. If there is a 3.5 year period in Revelation 11, and another one in Revelation 13, you would think it would have to fit one of these two time periods. I haven't fully made my mind up as to which though, assuming it would have to fit one or the other.

These Are very difficult passages, I agree. I always start by cross referencing any other NT or OT scripture and always keeping in the back of my mind this:

Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants WHAT MUST SOON TAKE PLACE.
 
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BABerean2

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It also depends on when the of times of gentiles began. Personally, I believe it began when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem, and it ended when Rome destroyed it again after being rebuilt.

Some believe the times of the gentiles began at the destruction of Jerusalem. If this is the case, then it is definitely not the same as the fullness of the gentiles in romans 11. As they would have 2 different starting points: according to Jesus at the destruction of Jerusalem; according to Paul, during his lifetime (before destruction) of Jerusalem.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(Christ commanded that the Gospel be taken "first" to "the house of Israel".)


Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Based on the scripture above, the Gospel was taken "first" to Israel for a period of about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the "times of the Gentiles" comes to an end at the future Second Coming of Christ.

.
 
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parousia70

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But plainly and obviously they thought wrongly.
The culmination of the ages has NOT yet come.


ANY theological position that Rests its hat on the notion that the Divinely inspired Apostles were not only IN error but TAUGHT THEIR ERROR to their flocks, ought be automatically rejected.

What else do you believe they were in error about?
Doctrines of Grace?
Baptism?
Resurrection?

How can we know for sure whether or not they erred on everything, if we claim they believed and taught in total error on the topic of timing?
 
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parousia70

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Have to practice what we preach then, right? Revelation 20 says it's a thousand years. We are not to teach otherwise. So I assume you take those to mean literal years the same way you do with this 42 months, otherwise you are not practicing what you preach, you are cherry picking instead.

I do take the thousand years Literally.

The "Thousand years" shows that Christ fulfilled the hopes of the Davidic Monarchy that Christ would fill David's office as King (Luke 1:68-69; Acts 2:30-36; 1 Timothy 1:17; Mark 11:10; ) and restore the tabernacle of David (Acts 15:16-17) so that all the gentile nations could join in to the true worship of Jehovah. The 1000 years shows a completed Monarchy instead of the fact that the Monarchy had fallen into ruin in the 500s BC via the Babylonian captivity.

Thousand Years refers to the entire length of the Davidic Monarchy, from David, the First King in the line through Christ, the Final King in the line, spanning a period of... wait for it.... 1000 years.

David and Christ being the only 2 Kings in the line that matter, David the type, Christ the antitype, or fulfillment.

Christ fulfilled what all other kings in the line failed to to, thus bringing completion to, and fulfilling the purpose for, the Davidic monarchy, which was the "1000 year reign".
 
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parousia70

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It is well documented that Christ comes with the desolation of Jerusalem.
Agreed

And not a single person in the first century documented Christs coming.
Not a single person documented seeing Christ at any ttime while the Romans were removing the Israelis from Israel.

Yet, In EVERY OT instance of Yahweh being SEEN "coming" down to earth riding clouds, wielding His sword and killing people with his Brightness, The prophets used that explicit VISUAL language to describe God in Heaven using Human armies as His instruments of Judgement on earth.

Every one.

Where is your scriptural instruction to apply a POLAR OPPOSITE interpretation to Christ's Coming on the Clouds described in the NT?

You would think if every eye would see him,coming in the clouds then someone would have documented it.

Where is the Historical Documentation of this GLOBALLY VISIBLE EVENT?:
The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; (Is 52:10)

Where is the documentation of God's Physical Arm being seen by every eye of everyone in every nation as the Prophet said?

So .No.Christ didn't come.The stars of heaven,didn't fall onto the earth,and the heavens didnt depart from,the earth as a scroll being rrolled together.None of these things were ever recorded by anyone in the first century and it seems absurd that anyone in this century would believe they did without any written record of any of these events.

Again, According to the prophets, The stars fell from heaven when the Medes Sacked Babylon (Isaiah 13)

According to the prophets, the Heavens receeded like a scroll at the fall of Edom (Isaiah 34)

According to the prophets, the World's mountains quaked and melted at the fall of Nineveh (Nahum 1)

So I ask again, Since Scripture interprets scripture, Where is your scriptural instruction to Interpret language like Stars falling, sun darkening, heaven rolling up like a scroll, mountains melting, Locally and Figuratively when it is used to describe already fulfilled National Judgments in the OT, but suddenly apply a polar opposite "literal, universal" interpretation to the exact same language when it is found in the NT?
 
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DavidPT

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Yet, In EVERY OT instance of Yahweh being SEEN "coming" down to earth riding clouds, wielding His sword and killing people with his Brightness, The prophets used that explicit VISUAL language to describe God in Heaven using Human armies as His instruments of Judgement on earth.

Every one.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Here's what the text indicates in regards to one of these comings recorded----it indicates He comes, not only in power, but also in great glory. How does the latter make sense, great glory, if meaning the events of 70 AD? Can you provide any examples from the OT where it involved coming in great glory, or any kind of glory for that matter, meaning when it involved clouds?

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


What about a passage like this? If Christ is meant here, here He, too, is coming in the clouds of heaven. But notice though, He is not coming in power and great glory, but is given power and great glory once He has arrived. Obviously then, Daniel 7:13-14 is meaning His return to heaven after His death and resurrection in the first century. This would mean when He returns, He would obviously be returning in power and great glory. This same power and great glory already given to Him according to verse 14.

To be consistent then, the way you are applying Matthew 24:30, you would have to apply the same way for Daniel 7:13-14. But in Daniel 7:13-14 though, there is no one coming in judgment against anyone. So how can coming in the clouds of heaven mean one thing in the NT, and an entirely different thing in the OT, in this case, Daniel 7:13-14? Both are concerning Christ are they not?
 
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claninja

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Can you provide any examples from the OT where it involved coming in great glory, or any kind of glory for that matter, meaning when it involved clouds?

When God defeated David's enemies and Saul
2 Samuel 22:1,10 On the day the LORD had rescued David the hands of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul, he sang this song to the LORD. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet.

 
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parousia70

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Can you provide any examples from the OT where it involved coming in great glory, or any kind of glory for that matter, meaning when it involved clouds?

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)
 
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seventysevens

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Given the overwhelming support from nearly all scholars stating that Revelation was written in the mid 90's , it shows that using it in support of saying the Jerusalem temple destruction on 70 AD is not at all in the Book of Revelation - desperation sets in , needing to come up with something , anything to account for 1000 years , but the sad thing that is bears no relevance in any way to the 1000 year reign of Jesus after he returns and satan is cast into the abyss for that same 1000 year time frame ,
 
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claninja

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Given the overwhelming support from nearly all scholars stating that Revelation was written in the mid 90's , it shows that using it in support of saying the Jerusalem temple destruction on 70 AD is not at all in the Book of Revelation - desperation sets in , needing to come up with something , anything to account for 1000 years , but the sad thing that is bears no relevance in any way to the 1000 year reign of Jesus after he returns and satan is cast into the abyss for that same 1000 year time frame ,

Wrong forum friend, see:

When was the Book of Revelation written?
 
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parousia70

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To be consistent then, the way you are applying Matthew 24:30, you would have to apply the same way for Daniel 7:13-14. But in Daniel 7:13-14 though, there is no one coming in judgment against anyone. So how can coming in the clouds of heaven mean one thing in the NT, and an entirely different thing in the OT, in this case, Daniel 7:13-14? Both are concerning Christ are they not?

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father. Jesus promised his apostles that he would return in their lifetimes "in the glory of the Father" (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). Christ's return at AD 67-70 was precisely in the manner and tradition of Yahweh's Old-Testament-era comings. We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16). Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20).

Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34).

As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation. Jesus Christ, the Lord of heaven and earth, came in the glory of the Father and did so in the lifetimes of the apostles, exactly as he promised (Matt 16:27-28; 24:33-34).
 
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parousia70

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Given the overwhelming support from nearly all scholars stating that Revelation was written in the mid 90's

Ughhh...
MOST Scholars favor the Early (Pre 70AD) Date.

In THIS THREAD I listed about 150 published scholars (most of them futurists) who hold to the Early date of Revelation.

I have requested, multiple times, a similar list from anyone claiming "most scholars" prefer the late (90'sAD) date.

No one has taken me up on it for years now...

You may not like the list I provided, but at least I have a list.

Where's yours?
 
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DavidPT

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[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)


For the record, I don't disagree with the way some of you are interpreting passages such as that in the OT. But to apply that the same way to any comings on clouds, concerning Christ, that's what I disagree with. Anything involving clouds and Christ involve a literal physical coming. Daniel 7:13-14, for one, proves it.
 
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seventysevens

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My reference was in regard to the results shown in that thread - and that thread was created based on what is in this thread , the temple destruction in 70 AD supposedly being referenced in Revelation
So now you want to keep the results out of this thread ....
It is time to re-examine the scriptures and realize that the temple destruction in 70 AD has no connection to Revelation as the destruction of Jerusalem spoken in Revelation is still yet to come in the future
 
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