The name of the beast is 666: euporia (prosperity)

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jgr said in post #42:

The clouds in [Mt. 24] v. 30 do not qualify in v. 29 because they merely block light rather than eliminate it at source, as the verse requires.

The verse in no way requires elimination, but can be similar to the idea of Matthew 5:15.

jgr said in post #42:

Thus v. 29 is to be understood metaphorically.

Rather, as literally as v. 30

For Jesus Christ will return "in like manner" as He ascended (Acts 1:11b), in that just as at the end of His first coming, He was seen by literal eyes to ascend physically from the Mount of Olives into a literal cloud and on into heaven (Acts 1:9,12, cf. Luke 24:39), so at His future, Second Coming, He will be seen in literal clouds by literal eyes (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30) to physically descend from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and set His feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:3-21).

When Jesus Christ returns, immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 19:7-21, Matthew 24:29-31), He will descend physically from heaven on a white horse (Revelation 19:7-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12), with all of the holy angels (Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7), for all of the world to see (Matthew 24:27,30, Revelation 1:7). Then the Church will be physically resurrected (if dead), or changed (if alive), into immortal physical bodies (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:4-6), and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus Christ will judge the Church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48), and marry its obedient part (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), in the clouds, before it mounts white horses and comes back down from sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14), as He defeats the world's armies (Revelation 19:19,21), and the Antichrist and False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and has Lucifer (Satan) bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3), a time period commonly called the Millennium.

At Jesus Christ's return, He will also make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the obedient part of the Church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54), while the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's defeated armies (Revelation 19:17-18). Then Jesus and the obedient part of the Church will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2). After the Millennium, Lucifer will be released from the Bottomless Pit and bring about the Gog/Magog rebellion, only to be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

At least seven years after that defeat (Ezekiel 39:9b), the Great White Throne Judgment will occur, in which all people who had not been resurrected and judged at Jesus Christ's return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). Then God will create a New Heaven (a new first heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth), and a New Earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:10b,13). Then God the Father will descend from the third heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and He will dwell on the earth with Jesus and the Church (Revelation 21:3).

In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem, on the New Earth, will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8), in which all non-Christians will suffer forever in fire and brimstone with Lucifer (Satan) and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).
 
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jgr said in post #42:

Everything described by Joel was fulfilled at a minimum initially in Acts 2.

No, it wasn't. For there were no blood and pillars of smoke (Joel 2:30) at the time of Acts 2.

Also, in Joel 2:30, the "pillars of smoke" bring to mind the stalks of mushroom clouds generated by nuclear detonations, which could occur at the start of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

For one way that the future, Tribulation-starting war of Revelation 6:4-8 and Daniel 11:15-17 could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to bring about the total (and lasting) defeat of the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, ISIL or Daesh) in Iraq and eastern and southern Syria, and eventually so that the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program, its ballistic missile program, its terrorist-group support operations, and its extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein), in order to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly.

And if the current, Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any return of a Baathist-dominated military (which cruelly suppressed the Iraqi Shiites under Saddam Hussein), or balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead Western intelligence agencies to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For they could see a well-run, Baathist Iraqi Army and government as the only way to permanently defeat Islamic State (and all of its successors), and the only way to eventually invade and defeat Iran, which invasion the Iraqi Baathists could agree to perform. For they see meddling, non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

Indeed, the current military brains of the Islamic State are former Iraqi Baathist generals who cannot stand that the Iraqi government is so heavily controlled by Iran. They see (Sunni Arab) Islamic State as the only current, viable bulwark against the (Shiite, non-Arab) Iranians, and their Shiite Arab cronies, taking total control of all of Iraq and Syria. But if there are secret, Western overtures toward these Baathist generals (who are now holed up in eastern Syria), they could very well agree to defect from serving Islamic State to serving a non-sectarian, "Free Iraqi Army" drawn mainly (not exclusively) from Sunni Arab and Kurdish militias in western and northern Iraq, which Army, with secret Western assistance, could then march on Baghdad and completely overthrow the current, Iranian-controlled, Iraqi government, which is very weak and corrupt.

Once the Iraqi Baathists (and Kurds) take back control of the Iraqi government and military, they could then also defeat all of the Iranian-controlled Shiite Arab militias in Iraq and eastern and southern Syria. Then, to help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of a subsequent, all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran itself, "false flag" operations could be managed by Western intelligence agencies by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and Kurds (and their little children) terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi masses will become enraged, and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false "Messiah": cf. Matthew 24:24) could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the third-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem in order to clear the site for the building of a third Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they are doing so in the name of Islam), turn and send their vast army against the small territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this would not be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being like a 51st state of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States, free from all foreign (including U.S.) hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many still secretly tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles, and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from three directions at the same time (from the east, north, and south), with thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and a thousand Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its small area of land overrun, and sees that its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that they could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that one-fourth of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing one-fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, that is, the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4), and that all other religions are cursed, doubly cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

jgr said in post #42:

Interpretation via imagination.

How does preterism imagine that Matthew 24:29-31 was fulfilled in 70 AD, or that Joel 2:30-31 was fulfilled at the time of Acts 2, which was decades earlier than 70 AD?

Be specific. What does each thing in Matthew 24:29-31 and Joel 2:30-31 represent exactly, according to preterism?

-

Because preterism and Christian Futurism differ on when things will happen, they necessarily differ on how things will happen. For preterism considers most Biblical prophecies to be symbolic descriptions of invisible, spiritual events, which could have occurred sometime in the past, while Christian Futurism considers most Biblical prophecies to be literal descriptions of visible, physical events, a great many of which have never occurred in the past.

Because of this difference in their belief in how most Biblical prophecies are fulfilled, preterism sees Christian Futurism as carnal, only interested in the physical, instead of setting its sights on the spiritual, while Christian Futurism sees preterism as overly intellectualized, forgetting that God is interested not only in spiritual redemption, but also in complete physical redemption (Romans 8:23-25, Luke 24:39, Philippians 3:21, Revelation 21:5).

-

Also, preterism sometimes disparages futurism as being nothing more than "newspaper theology".

But Christian Futurism considers today's news stories regarding such things as geopolitics and technology, so that the news can help Christians to consider different ways for how exactly the not-yet-fulfilled, yet still understandable, and almost entirely literal, highly detailed prophecies in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 might be fulfilled in our future. For example, Christians at any time in the past could understand that Revelation 6:4-8 refers to a horrible, literal war which will start the future Tribulation, and which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing one-fourth of the world. Christians at any time in the past could understand this without having to know, for example, what nation will start the war, or what weapons will be employed in the war. What Christian Futurism does is consider these things.

For another example, Christians at any time in the past could understand that Revelation 13:14-15 refers to a literal image (Greek: "eikon", something made in the likeness) of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), which image will appear to be alive, and speak. And people will have to worship it, or be killed. Christians at any time in the past could understand this without having to know, for example, whether the image will be two-dimensional or three-dimensional (or both), or what it will be made of, or how it will be made to speak, or appear to be alive. What Christian Futurism does is consider these things.

Preterist Christians hate newspaper exegesis, because they think that Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. But while they rail against Futurist Christians for searching today's newspapers for any possible fulfillments, no matter how strained, Preterists themselves search ancient newspapers, as it were, search ancient histories, for any possible fulfillments, no matter how strained.

So all Christians partake in newspaper exegesis to some extent, it just depends on how old the newspapers are in which they search.
 
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No, it wasn't. For there were no blood and pillars of smoke (Joel 2:30) at the time of Acts 2.

Yes, it was.

Psalms 18
8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

These phenomena had not occurred literally when David wrote, yet he claimed that they had. The phenomena were metaphoric.

The same is true of Joel 2 and Acts 2.
 
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jgr said in post #45:

These phenomena had not occurred literally when David wrote, yet he claimed that they had.

Psalms 18:8-9 can be fulfilled literally at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

jgr said in post #45:

The same is true of Joel 2 and Acts 2.

Joel 2:30-31/Acts 2:19-20 will not be fulfilled until the future Tribulation (Revelation 6:12, Revelation 8:7, Revelation 17:16, Revelation 16:19) of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

This Tribulation, which Jesus Christ will return immediately after (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), has not started yet. For it will begin with a horrible war, which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing one-fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. After this war, there will be a terrible series of natural disasters historically unprecedented in their magnitude, such as a gigantic volcanic eruption (Revelation 6:12-14), possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera, and then the collapse into the ocean of another erupting volcano (Revelation 8:8-9), possibly one of the Canary Islands, the collapse of which could create a huge tsunami which could destroy the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

If such a tsunami occurs, it could also cause a string of awful, Fukushima-type, nuclear-meltdown radiation disasters in the nuclear power plants and their nuclear-waste storage facilities all along the eastern seaboard of the U.S. (These facilities, all together, are holding tens of thousands of tons of highly-radioactive nuclear waste. Nuclear power was one of the worst ideas ever, as Germany has now wisely realized.) Also, if the tsunami breaks open the germ-containment structures on Plum Island, just off the coast of Connecticut, especially-deadly viruses and bacteria could be washed inland and spread across the U.S. and Canada as they infect animals and people.

After the volcanic activity and possible tsunami, a comet will strike the earth (Revelation 8:10-11), possibly in the U.S. and Canadian Great Lakes region. As the comet falls from the sky, it will look like a great star, or like a burning lamp in the sky (Revelation 8:10). It will strike a region of the earth which contains one-third of the world's fresh surface water (Revelation 8:10b); and it will contain some poisonous element which will poison that water so that many who drink from it will die (Revelation 8:11b).

Sometime after that, weird locust-like beings will swarm up from the Bottomless Pit of the earth to torment mankind with excruciating stings for five months (Revelation 9:2-10). The world could see them as "aliens" who had been hibernating for thousands of years in a cavern deep underground. The locust-like beings will not kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die, the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6).

After that, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as "aliens". But they and the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The four fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind completely desperate before its takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when this army starts killing one-third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought upon humanity. For the Antichrist -- who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco -- could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

(And all of this will be part of only the first half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.)

It is at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently, after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. (The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris.) After landing there, Lucifer, a literal, seven-headed, red dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he came to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, whom he could say is his only-begotten Son, called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the non-Christian world as the saviors of mankind. And the non-Christian world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist, and a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send seven vials of wrath against the non-Christian world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of these seven vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH Himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the world's armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).
 
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Psalms 18:8-9 can be fulfilled literally at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

Not when the verses are expressed in the past tense in describing David's personal deliverance. To futurize the verses renders them absurd in their context, depriving them of the dramatic impact that David intended them to have. There is not the slightest possibility that David was contemplating anything other than his personal circumstances, and God's miraculous intervention to resolve them, when he wrote the Psalm.

Joel 2:30-31/Acts 2:19-20 will not be fulfilled until the future Tribulation (Revelation 6:12, Revelation 8:7, Revelation 17:16, Revelation 16:19) of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

Joel 2 and Acts 2 were fulfilled in the same way as was Psalms 18.

This Tribulation, which Jesus Christ will return immediately after (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7to 20:6), has not started yet. For it will begin with a horrible war, which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing one-fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. After this war, there will be a terrible series of natural disasters historically unprecedented in their magnitude, such as a gigantic volcanic eruption (Revelation 6:12-14), possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera, and then the collapse into the ocean of another erupting volcano (Revelation 8:8-9), possibly one of the Canary Islands, the collapse of which could create a huge tsunami which could destroy the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

If such a tsunami occurs, it could also cause a string of awful, Fukushima-type, nuclear-meltdown radiation disasters in the nuclear power plants and their nuclear-waste storage facilities all along the eastern seaboard of the U.S. (These facilities, all together, are holding tens of thousands of tons of highly-radioactive nuclear waste. Nuclear power was one of the worst ideas ever, as Germany has now wisely realized.) Also, if the tsunami breaks open the germ-containment structures on Plum Island, just off the coast of Connecticut, especially-deadly viruses and bacteria could be washed inland and spread across the U.S. and Canada as they infect animals and people.

After the volcanic activity and possible tsunami, a comet will strike the earth (Revelation 8:10-11), possibly in the U.S. and Canadian Great Lakes region. As the comet falls from the sky, it will look like a great star, or like a burning lamp in the sky (Revelation 8:10). It will strike a region of the earth which contains one-third of the world's fresh surface water (Revelation 8:10b); and it will contain some poisonous element which will poison that water so that many who drink from it will die (Revelation 8:11b).

Sometime after that, weird locust-like beings will swarm up from the Bottomless Pit of the earth to torment mankind with excruciating stings for five months (Revelation 9:2-10). The world could see them as "aliens" who had been hibernating for thousands of years in a cavern deep underground. The locust-like beings will not kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die, the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6).

After that, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as "aliens". But they and the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The four fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind completely desperate before its takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when this army starts killing one-third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought upon humanity. For the Antichrist -- who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco -- could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

(And all of this will be part of only the first half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.)

It is at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently, after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. (The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris.) After landing there, Lucifer, a literal, seven-headed, red dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he came to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, whom he could say is his only-begotten Son, called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the non-Christian world as the saviors of mankind. And the non-Christian world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist, and a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send seven vials of wrath against the non-Christian world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of these seven vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH Himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the world's armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

Quintessential interpretation by imagination, in complete denial of, and unconstrained by, any connection to historical fact and truth.

  • 190AD Clement of Alexandria (On Matthew 24:15, The Abomination of Desolation) "We have still to add to our chronology the following, -- I mean the days which Daniel indicates from the desolation of Jerusalem, the seven years and seven months of the reign of Vespasian. For the two years are added to the seventeen months and eighteen days of Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius; and the result is three years and six months, which is "the half of the week," as Daniel the prophet said. For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction. For thus the declaration, which is subjoined, shows: "How long shall be the vision, the sacrifice taken away, the abomination of desolation, which is given, and the power and the holy place shall be trodden under foot? And he said to him, Till the evening and morning, two thousand three hundred days, and the holy place shall be taken away." ... "These two thousand three hundred days, then, make six years four months, during the half of which Nero held sway, and it was half a week; and for a half, Vespasian with Otho, Galba, and Vitellius reigned. And on this account Daniel says, "Blessed is he that cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." For up to these days was war, and after them it ceased. And this number is demonstrated from a subsequent chapter, which is as follows: "And from the time of the change of continuation, and of the giving of the abomination of desolation, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days." " (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, p. 334)
  • 190AD Clement of Alexandria (On Matthew 24:2b,34) "But our Master did not prophesy after this fashion; but, as I have already said, being a prophet by an inborn and every-flowing Spirit, and knowing all things at all times, He confidently set forth, plainly as I said before, sufferings, places, appointed times, manners, limits. Accordingly, therdore, prophesying concerning the temple, He said: "See ye these buildings? Verily I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another which shall not be taken away [Matt. 24:2b]; and this generation shall not pass until the destruction begin [Matt. 24:34]. . . ." And in like manner He spoke in plain words the things that were straightway to happen, which we can now see with our eyes, in order that the accomplishment might be among those to whom the word was spoken. (Clementine Homilia, 3:15. See Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, 8:241.)
 
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jgr said in post #47:

Not when the verses are expressed in the past tense in describing David's personal deliverance.

Yes, even then, just as Isaiah spoke Isaiah 53 in the past tense in reference to himself and the rest of us (Isaiah 53:6), even though Isaiah 53 had not been fulfilled by his time.

Similarly, even parts of the prophecies of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 can be spoken in the past tense despite the fact that they have not been fulfilled yet.

For example, Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be a third Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This third temple will coexist with the Church like the second temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). The third temple could be built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount by the ultra-Orthodox Jews, after they (or great earthquakes) clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. Shortly after they build the temple, the future Antichrist could attack and defeat them, and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22).

Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a), permitting them to keep the temple, and to continue to (mistakenly) perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it, for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a high wall between the temple and the mosque to keep the temple from being "defiled".

But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

At the very end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the Second Coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the third temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left upon another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a fourth temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the Church during the future Millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the second temple served for the Church in the first century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

--

One reason that the third Jewish temple of Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 has not been built yet is the Israeli government has been careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (which are on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem) ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the Israeli government knows that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to ever destroy these two buildings (the third-holiest sites in Islam) in order to clear the Temple Mount for a third Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the current state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad, and defeat it completely.

While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the third Jewish temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior Jewish temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock), on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic city-state of (what they could call) "the True Israel". They could establish this within the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and build on the Temple Mount a third Jewish temple, before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law, and banish every non-kosher person and thing from ever entering within Old Jerusalem's "Holy walls".

(This could point to another reason that the current, secular government of Israel does not want to let the ultra-Orthodox Jews ever build a third Jewish temple: out of fear that the secular authority of the Israeli government could subsequently get undermined. For once temple practices resumed, and a priesthood came into power, a creep toward theocracy could ensue in Israel, where priests and rabbis would become powerful enough to replace the secular leaders. So the latter could want to place a hold on any drift in that direction by forbidding the building of a third Jewish temple.)

Something which could help to bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to the point of desiring to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in Samaria and Judaea (also called the West Bank), and in eastern Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they are allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by three huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

(A fear of the ultra-Orthodox Jews resorting to violence could be one of the reasons that the current Israeli government refuses to hinder Jewish settlement activity in Samaria, Judaea, and eastern Jerusalem. It could also be one of the reasons that the U.S. government has been convinced by Israel to back off from requiring any such hindrance, even though the U.S. sometimes complains about the settlements. But if down the road, the current, geriatric, lifeless Palestinian leadership of Fatah in the West Bank is replaced by a younger, very-energetic leadership, which is able to whip up pressure from the Middle East's Arab masses and governments (and even from non-Arab governments such as the French and the EU) for a Palestinian state; and if this pressure becomes so extreme that it begins to threaten to overthrow the current U.S. hegemony over the Arab world, then the U.S. could decide to force Israel to surrender the Jewish settlements to a Palestinian state.

But this will never happen so long as Netanyahu is in power. This is why he is now being attacked legally in order to remove him from power.

Also, besides the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel getting squeezed out of their settlements at some point in our future, something else which could help to tip the scales toward them becoming violent would be the rising up in Israel of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and to rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place which He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount, and to let it remain under the religious control of the vile Muslims? Let us all rise up now, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false, ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into a religious frenzy, so that they will all with great zeal, and without any fear, march in their tens of thousands to the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God "for His great and mighty Victory".

Something else which could help to tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the occurrence of a series of great earthquakes in Jerusalem, which will severely damage the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque, to the point where they will stop being used. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see this as (in their words) "Clearly a portent from God that He will no longer allow the Muslims to trample His Holy Mountain. We must now reassert Jewish religious control over it, and rebuild His Holy Temple there".

Something else which could help to tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be hidden in a sealed cave in Mount Nebo in Jordan (2 Maccabees 2:4-8, cf. Deuteronomy 32:49). Or the Ark could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see a retrieval of the Ark as (in their words) "An unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up, without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops and tanks long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it is out and the IDF troops actually see it, it is unlikely that they are going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount, they will be in such awe.

Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount, and begin completely destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it is unlikely that the IDF troops are going to open fire, whether with lead bullets or rubber bullets, on their fellow Jews, slaughtering or injuring hundreds or thousands of them. Also, increasing numbers of IDF officers are very religious, so that they could order their troops to stand down. And if some non-religious officers convince their troops to employ tear gas in an attempt to simply disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews without harming them, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along gas masks (which, ironically, could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear that Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical weapons payloads).

So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.
 
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jgr posted in post #47:

•190AD Clement of Alexandria (On Matthew 24:15, The Abomination of Desolation) . . .

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. But per Jesus Christ's statement in Matthew 24:15, the Church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future when the Church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all of the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the future Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15), and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first and only time (2 Thessalonians 2:4), he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage. For that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by a future, Iraqi Baathist General (the Antichrist's precursor) who will defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

jgr posted in post #47:

Verily I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another which shall not be taken away [Matt. 24:3] . . .

That's Matthew 24:2b.

The end of the second Jewish temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in Jerusalem in 70 AD did not fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the second temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus Christ spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 was referring not only to the single, second temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount, and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire second temple complex (Matthew 24:1).

Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken right after Jesus Christ had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1). And one of the main temple-complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire second temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

jgr posted in post #47:

. . . and this generation shall not pass until the destruction begin [Matt. 24:34]. . .

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

This refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the future Tribulation, and Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the Church "immediately after" the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which He would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 did not mean that the Tribulation, Second Coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, in the first century AD. For none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 can mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34; cf. Matthew 21:19,43, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9), will not pass, that is, will not die off completely, until the future Tribulation and Second Coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This does not require that Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: that is, 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2027, or 2067. And if the Tribulation which will immediately precede the Second Coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last seven years (Daniel 9:27), the Tribulation's first year will not have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b; 1 Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) will not pass away from the earth during the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some elect people will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), which will occur immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
 
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VICARIVS FILII DEI is a Roman title. There is every rationale for using the Roman-numeral method for the Roman title of the leader of the Roman church headquartered in Rome.
There is rationale, yes. But not conclusive. It is not necessarily that of Roman numerals. And it may not even have to do with the letters of the name.

Also, what I think gets overlooked is the mark - is not just a mark, but the mark of his name.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So all three things have to do with his name - his name, the number of his name, the mark of his name.


Separately, the title of the pope is a title - not a name. And the Pope is not the King of the fourth empire, the Roman Empire, and does not have an army like the beast will have.
 
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There is rationale, yes. But not conclusive. It is not necessarily that of Roman numerals. And it may not even have to do with the letters of the name..

More conclusive than other explanations.

Separately, the title of the pope is a title - not a name.

Revelation 14:11

3686 [e]
onomatos
ὀνόματος
name
N-GNS

From STRONGS NT 3686: ὄνομα:
"equivalent to title"

And the Pope is not the King of the fourth empire, the Roman Empire, and does not have an army like the beast will have.

Not found in Daniel 7.
 
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Yes, even then, just as Isaiah spoke Isaiah 53 in the past tense in reference to himself and the rest of us (Isaiah 53:6), even though Isaiah 53 had not been fulfilled by his time.

Similarly, even parts of the prophecies of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 can be spoken in the past tense despite the fact that they have not been fulfilled yet.

Psalms 18 and Isaiah 53 are diametically different.

Psalms 18 is rendered exclusively in the past tense in recognition of its description of the past occurrence of David's experience. There is no prophecy whatever in the chapter.

In contrast, Isaiah 53 is exclusively prophetic. Every verse is either entirely Messianic, or contains at least one Messianic clause. In ancient Hebrew, prophecy was frequently rendered without any regard to the tense in recognition that the author regarded prophecies and their fulfillments to be timeless. Isaiah 53 employs all three tenses -- past, present, and future -- even though the entire chapter is Messianic and future.

These fundamental differences necessitate treating each chapter individually and independently.

For example, Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be a third Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This third temple will coexist with the Church like the second temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). The third temple could be built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount by the ultra-Orthodox Jews, after they (or great earthquakes) clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. Shortly after they build the temple, the future Antichrist could attack and defeat them, and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22).

There will be no third temple. God will unleash divine wrath on any attempt to erect one, as the Jews discovered in 363 AD.

Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a), permitting them to keep the temple, and to continue to (mistakenly) perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it, for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a high wall between the temple and the mosque to keep the temple from being "defiled".

But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

There is no antichrist, no Muslims, no broken peace treaty, no android, no worldwide reign of terror, et al in Daniel 9. There is only Christ the Messiah the Prince (Daniel 9:25,26), His perfect and completely fulfilled accomplishments (Daniel 9:24, Acts 3:14, Acts 4:27, Isaiah 53:5,8, Matthew 1:21, Hebrews 9:26, Colossians 1:20-22, Ephesians 2:16, Romans 5:17-21), and the Everlasting Covenant in His Blood confirmed, at Calvary (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24), His abolition of sacrifice and oblation through His own Perfect Sacrifice (Daniel 9:27, Hebrews 7:27, Hebrews 9:26, Hebrews 10:12), and the desolation from the destruction wrought by His people, the Romans and Jews, whom He enlisted as His agents of judgment and annihilation (Daniel 9:26).

190AD Clement of Alexandria (On Daniel 9:24-27 ; The 'Seventy Weeks' of Daniel) Cyrus had, by proclamation, previously enjoined the restoration of the Hebrews. And his promise being accomplished in the time of Darius, the feast of the dedication was held, as also the feast of tabernacles. There were in all, taking in the duration of the captivity down to the restoration of the people, from the birth of Moses, one thousand one hundred and fifty-five years, six months, and ten days; and from the reign of David, according to some, four hundred and fifty-two; more correctly, five hundred and seventy-two years, six months, and ten days. From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation." That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.
 
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jgr

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The end of the second Jewish temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in Jerusalem in 70 AD did not fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the second temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus Christ spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 was referring not only to the single, second temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount, and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire second temple complex (Matthew 24:1).

Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken right after Jesus Christ had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1). And one of the main temple-complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire second temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Debunked by the most recent information.
 
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jgr

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Matthew 24:34 did not mean that the Tribulation, Second Coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, in the first century AD. For none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Everything that Christ had predicted was fulfilled in precise detail.

DECEIVERS

Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow

Continued below...
 
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jgr

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PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow
 
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jgr

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The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God.

The temple of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is, in the Greek, a naos/naon temple. Wherever Paul uses that variation, it is in reference to the spiritual temple of the believer, collectively the Church. Historically, Paul's prediction was fulfilled by the apostate Roman papacy, which arose after the imperial Roman empire to usurp spiritual authority within the Church.
 
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Douggg

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All these images are opposites of God:
Name of the beast (prosperity) <> Name of God
What about be fruitful and multiply? Wasn't that God's instructions, Genesis 1:28? So I am not see prosperity as being the name of the beast.
 
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What about be fruitful and multiply? Wasn't that God's instructions, Genesis 1:28? So I am not see prosperity as being the name of the beast.
Not only animals and people can fruitful and multiply. For example, Christians can also multiply by preaching the Gospel. Various ideas are also capable of multiplying, capturing new minds.

The sea is the image of this world. Worldly people in the world swim as they want, like fish, at the will of their soul. Susha is the image of religious people who in their lives rely on religious rules.

Heaven is the space where the Holy Spirit acts. Those sages who live by the will of the Spirit can shine for religious people, as the stars shine. These images follow throughout Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation.

Unfortunately, the official Christian religion has always been carried away by its misinterpretations of the Scriptures, for example, the theory of flat Earth. They, in their carnal minds, also thought that they relied on the Holy Scriptures.
 
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Douggg said in post #50:

And the Pope is not the King of the fourth empire, the Roman Empire, and does not have an army like the beast will have.

Great point.

For in Daniel 7, the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The fourth beast, or fourth "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the ten horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent ten major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These ten nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The ten part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the ten horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the ten as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the future Antichrist.

The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the future Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the ten major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, that is, a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in our future by an Iraqi Baathist General (the future Antichrist's precursor) who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all ten of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like how when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.
 
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jgr said in post #52:

Psalms 18 and Isaiah 53 are diametically different.

Not at all. For they can both refer to future events in the past tense, just as, for example, Revelation 11:11-13 refers to future events in the past tense.

For in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the Two Witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the Transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4, the two "olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the Transfiguration. Also, the plagues which the Two Witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And the archangel Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The Two Witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b-3,6) of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the Two Witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the Tribulation's second woe/sixth trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). The Two Witnesses will be taken physically up to heaven before the Tribulation's seventh trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people, and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required in order to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

jgr said in post #52:

Psalms 18 is rendered exclusively in the past tense in recognition of its description of the past occurrence of David's experience. There is no prophecy whatever in the chapter.

Psalms 18:11, for example, can refer to the clouds of Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Matthew 24:29, Revelation 1:7a), right before He appears to the world (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7b), and the rapture of Psalms 18:16 occurs (Matthew 24:31).

jgr said in post #52:

There is no antichrist, no Muslims, no broken peace treaty, no android, no worldwide reign of terror, et al in Daniel 9.

In Daniel 9:26, the original Hebrew word (H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). But a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are militarily defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So this future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a third Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they and/or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least seven years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that they can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this peace treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the future Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least seven years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the future Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the third temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

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jgr said in post #54:

Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions.

While Jesus Christ was originally speaking with His apostles in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, in His mind all Christians of all times are one (John 17:20-21, Ephesians 4:4-5). So the "ye" in Matthew 24 does not require that Matthew 24 was fulfilled in the lifetime of the apostles. The "ye" will see "all these things" (Matthew 24:33-34), including Jesus' never-fulfilled Second Coming (Matthew 24:30-34). The "ye" must watch (stay awake, spiritually) for the Second Coming (Matthew 24:42,44).

Just as Jesus Christ's Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 has always been relevant to Christians, despite the fact that it has not yet been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled almost entirely literally in our future, so the highly detailed and chronological events of the just-preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18, and the subsequent Millennium and other events in Revelation chapters 20 to 22, have always been relevant to Christians, despite the fact that they have not yet been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled almost entirely literally in our future.

To put it another way, the future fulfillment of the Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, before Jesus Christ returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), should be relevant to every Christian, regardless of whether or not he thinks that he will still be alive to go through the Tribulation, just as, for example, the past fulfillment of Genesis chapters 1 to 11 should be relevant to every Christian, regardless of him not being alive at that time to experience it. For all parts of the Bible, regarding all times, are profitable to all Christians of all times (2 Timothy 3:16).

Also, the future fulfillment of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 should be especially relevant to every Christian alive today. For the main reason that the Bible gives clear warning ahead of time about everything that Christians alive at the time of the Tribulation will have to face (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), before Jesus Christ returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), is so that Christians can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that is coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future Tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and not commit apostasy during the Tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

jgr said in post #54:

Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions.

Just because wars occurred in the first century AD after Jesus Christ spoke Matthew 24:6 does not make those wars the fulfillment of Matthew 24:6 any more than just because much worse wars occurred in the twentieth century AD does not make those wars the fulfillment of Matthew 24:6.
 
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jgr said in post #57:

The temple of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is, in the Greek, a naos/naon temple.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, like in Revelation 11:1-2, the original Greek word (naos: G3485) translated as "temple" is the same word used for an actual, physical temple in Matthew 23:16, Matthew 23:17, Matthew 23:21, Matthew 23:35, Matthew 27:5, Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 1:9, Luke 1:21, Luke 1:22, Luke 23:45, and John 2:20.

jgr said in post #57:

Wherever Paul uses that variation, it is in reference to the spiritual temple of the believer, collectively the Church.

Do you mean in his epistles?

If so, note that 2 Thessalonians 2:4 can be the only instance in Paul's epistles where "naos" refers to an actual, physical temple. For your argument is like the argument of full preterism which claims that the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 cannot be physical, because all of the other verses in the Bible where the original Greek word "stoicheion" (G4747) is used, refer to non-physical elements. The truth is that the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 can be the only place in the Bible where "stoicheion" is used to refer to physical elements, just as, for example, Revelation 6:6 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the Bible where the Greek word "choinix" (G5518) is used at all.

Similarly, 2 Thessalonians 2:4 can be the only instance in Paul's epistles where "naos" refers to an actual, physical temple.

But why restrict Paul's use of "naos" to only his epistles? For he used "naos" in Acts 17:24 to refer to actual, physical temples.

jgr said in post #57:

Historically, Paul's prediction was fulfilled by the apostate Roman papacy, which arose after the imperial Roman empire to usurp spiritual authority within the Church.

No man ever sat in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaimed himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, cf. Matthew 24:15), just as no man ever fulfilled other detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the "beast") in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9. Any mistaken teaching which says that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet spectacle which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing it to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four strong men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. The men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit upon the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could then take the crown from the pope's outstretched hands. And as the Antichrist is placing the crown upon his own head, a camera could slowly zoom in on his face as he says in a deep voice: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. WORSHIP ME, ALL YE NATIONS OF THE EARTH!"

(Compare Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)
 
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