New theory ..Daniel's 4th beast is not Rome but is yet to be revealed..

dfw69 said:

The Roman empire doesn't exist anymore...the 4th kingdom will be a power that will seek to form the 10 kingdoms of the tribes of Israel ....who will rule with a iron rod

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60 years of the Rome Treaties - European Union - European Commission

dfw69 said:

Who do you think will fulfill the 4th beast prophecy?

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Sorry, I'm not going to discuss this too deeply because I'm not finished studying these chapters enough to readily give chapter and verse why I believe this, and it can be very confusing and non-productive to those who don't know what I'm talking about. And I don't have time to look up the scriptures and explain it all right now as I am focused on developing my website for this purpose.

Unfortunately, as you can see, the traditional interpretations of the four kings of Daniel chapter 7 usually is that they are literal empires. However, I've studied this enough to know that this is not true. When we examine the scriptures more carefully we see that God is not interested in history lessons of worldly empires, but is illustrating spiritual truths.

Daniel 7:2-3

• "Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
• And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another."

God has inspired these truths to be written in cryptic symbolism. For example, patterned after four literal ruling Kingdoms (Chaldea, Persian, Greece and Rome), but symbolizing a spiritual rule in the earth. These four beasts are spiritual pictures of the construct from which Satan rules, which is through carnal man. In other words, the four beasts actually symbolize systemic carnal world rule. The beast is simply a body of carnal men fighting against the body of Christ, the Elect. In fact, in Revelation chapter 13 we can see these very same beasts pictured as one single beast that has all the aspects of these four beasts illustrated in Daniel chapter 7. I believe that they are four here to symbolize the "universality" of this rule of Satan over the peoples of the world. The number 4 symbolizes universality. The beasts are kings, which symbolize rules. The wind many times is synonymous with spirit, and by this prophesy referring to "the four winds of the heaven," it implies the Holy Spirit. Horns are symbolic of power and strength. The winds of heaven here is an illustration that God ultimately controls all the universe, both good and bad (Revelation 7:7). The sea is the tumultuous world, or peoples of the world, often spoken of as humanity. And the beasts that came up from the sea "symbolize" epocs, dominions that successively emerge from the tumultuous disturbances of the world (mimicking the tumultuous sea -As Isaiah 13:4). Just like when you read about when Christ calmed the tumultuous sea it was illustrating His rule over the wicked forces of the world that would destroy His disciples in their ship (symbolically the Church - same as Paul and the shipwreck in midst of storm). So these four kings symbolize their universal rule. Diverse or different because they differ in symbolism, purpose, and strength.

The bottom line is since I believe that the final beast themselves is the systemic rule of Satan, "through carnal men," that are "as beasts," I believe that it's talking about Satan, and his ministers of unrighteousness, which are people made up of aspects of Old Testament empires as a TYPE of enemies attacking the Old Testament Israel. Therefore, the final beast or "end time" beast of Revelation 13, etc., for example, is the body (and army) of professed Christians/false prophets/false Christs attacking against New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church, in a spiritual sense that only the Elect can "see".

Regardless, like I said, I am busy with my project at the present time.

dfw69 said:

Oh I see now thanks..

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Douggg is not correct with his interpretation. We need to find God's definition for the horn in His Holy Word which is HIS interpretation.

The horn in Scripture signifies power or strength. For example, the horns used to represent the power of Satan, as for example the Beast with 10 horns, etc. Look up in Psalms 8:21 and 2nd Samuel 22:3 in saying "horn of my salvation," it is the same as saying the Power of salvation, because in the Bible, the horn is usually the symbol of power. You can see that the power of the Bull is its horns, and that is what men are most afraid of concerning these type animals, and even today in many areas the horns of animals are viewed as powerful and even magical. God used horns symbolically this way, which is why there were horns on the Altar. The altar is for the administration of the sacrifice, which represented Christ. In understanding this we can readily see why God says "Horn of my Salvation" and why there are horns on the Altar. It's because all throughout the Bible we see it illustrates they are a "figure" or symbol of the power or strength of whatever is in view. Here are some examples:

Psalms 89:17

• "For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted."

People don't literally have a horn to be lifted up strengthening them of course, but the horn is used here to convey the sense of believers being exalted in the glory of "His" strength. We are lifted up in His strength (Psalms 46:1; 81:1) rather than our own. e.g.:

Lamentations 2:3

• "He hath cut off in his fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."

Here God uses the symbol in saying he would cut off the horn of Israel, meaning He would break off their "power" or "strength" so that they will be defeated. Again, the horn there is used as a symbol of their power being broken

Deuteronomy 33:17

• "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

Here again, the horn is used to symbolize the power and strength of the Bullock that enables him to overcome or push against the people.

Lamentations 2:17

• "The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries."

In this passage, God uses the horn to signify that he has taken away their strength or power of Israel as judgment, or has exalted the horn (Power) of their adversaries to overcome them. In other words, while (verse 3) cutting off the horn of Israel means they no longer had power to stand against her enemies, here in this passage, setting up the horn of their adversaries (verse 17) means that the enemies now had the power to conquer Israel. Clearly the horns there signify Power or strength. We see that when a horn is broken or cut off, it is a signification that one's power has been broken or cut off. Whether used in conjunction with a crown, where it's man's ability to rule (as a king), or for something to be unable to stand or to have strength before his enemy, that cutting off of a horn signified the cutting off of power.

Now let visit Daniel:

Daniel 8:7

• "And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no Power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand."

Again, clearly and unambiguously God uses the horn to symbolize the power of the Ram. When the two horns were broken, that left him with no more power to stand before the he goat. This is what those broken "horns" symbolized, broken power. And the same goes for the power of evil when it was broken.

Daniel 8:8

• "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

The great horn allowed the wicked he goat to push with power so that the Ram could not stand before him. For example, it 'symbolized' his great power. But now we see that likewise, when this He goat's horn was broken, it also symbolizes his power being broken or taken away wherein other forces rose up.

We see the same scenario in Revelation chapter 17 where there is this Beast who had ten horns. Here the number ten in Scripture signifies fullness of whatever is in view. And again the horns signify power. So this imagery is to illustrate the fullness of time these kings rule with "power" along with the Beast.

Revelation 17:12

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive Power as kings one hour with the beast."

Not ten male individual or nations, but rather false prophets and christs receive power that they received to rule with the beast for this short period. Another passage where this illustration of horns signifying power can be seen in 1st Kings.

1st Kings 22:11

• "And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them."

Here God uses the imagery of horns of iron to illustrate the great power of them by which these men could push the Syrians and defeat them. The God authored and recurring theme of horns is that they symbolize the power of whatever is in view. Likewise, the lamb of Revelation chapter five verse six has seven horns to illustrate its power. The number seven illustrates the completeness or totality of whatever is in view, and thus this represents the complete power of Christ as He is the Lamb of God that was slain. As the sacrifice lamb (as in the 4 horns of the Altar), He was the appointed sacrifice who had complete or total power. Christ illustrated this complete power Himself.

Matthew 28:18

• "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

1st Peter 3:22

• "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."

So the Lamb with 7 horns signifies Jesus Christ as He was sacrificed on the altar of God, with the complete power of God for the atonement! This was the mirror witness of God in speaking of the power of the sacrifice in the imagery of the 4 horns of the altar.

Leviticus 4:7

• "And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation."

Or when it is used in breaking the power of idolatry in breaking off the horns of the altar.

Amos 3:14

• "That in the day that I shall visit the transgressions of Israel upon him I will also visit the altars of Bethel: and the horns of the altar shall be cut off, and fall to the ground."

By this God is illustrating that he is taking away its power or strength because of the transgressions of Israel as a judgment. Hope that helps a little!

Now, concerning the "little horn" of Daniel and Revelation. It simply means that the beast, especially the 8th king, will have full of power to deceive the nations for a short season.

dfw69 said:

Daniel’s 4th Beast Isn’t Rome – P2ALM

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Well Shoot Yeah! It’s about time someone saw it!

Good on you.

dfw69 said:

Daniel’s 4th Beast Isn’t Rome – P2ALM

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One more thing, Biblical Prophecy is a Pride issue that is built on and built on. A lot of people won’t say nice things to you for posting this and believing it.



But, you’re not alone.

dfw69 said:

Daniel’s 4th Beast Isn’t Rome – P2ALM

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There is one more spin on this,

Israel is the center point and all kingdoms that rule over her are of the beast.

A 7 headed dragon is in revelation and it’s heads could be seen like so;

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome
Islam (Ottomon Empire)

The 7th is wounded and an 8th that “was one of the 7” and encompasses all Beast geography will take hold as the full power of Satan.

It’s a theory

keras said:

All that has happened, in a spiritual way; is God's Plan. Jesus was made ready since the beginning of the world.

Re the Fourth beast: Daniel 7:23-24. Plainly; this king, who is different from other kings and will rule the whole world, with 10 Governors under him, is the same one referred to in Revelation 17:11-12 and is the leader of the One World Government. The

Anti-Christ. ​

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Historically, the four empires are identifiable as the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian, and Roman.

The ten kings and kingdoms resulting from the dissolution of the Western Roman Empire are identifiable as the Franks, Huns, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Heruli, Lombards, Anglo-Saxons, Suevi, Vandals, and Burgundians.

The little horn is identifiable as the Roman papacy which arose out of the ten kingdoms, and which conquered three of them: the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.

The Protestant Reformation's success was in large part attributable to the accurate recognition of these empires and kingdoms, and the antichrist of the apostate papacy which ultimately appeared.

dfw69 said:

Yes I can see that scenario possible

I think Israel reborn into 10 kingdoms along with the kingdom of Judah together United as a world power becoming a beast in the future as well.. ..especially if and when they produce a messiah ....an anointed son of David who will reign ....his generations may last several hundreds of years....what impact will that make on the world?....

Jesus did say 'many messiahs" will come .... Was he referring to Judaism? Was he pointing to the kingdom of Judah with 10 kingdoms at her side? Was Jesus referring to the sons of David ruling in succession ? Maybe something to watch out for ...

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Personally,

Studying Islamic eschatology has scared the daylights out of me!

It’s 180 out with ours. Our Messiah is their Anti Christ and their Messiah matches our Anti Christ.

But, that’s all conjecture.

dfw69 said:

Your not afraid of Judaism with its Talmud teachings and opposition to Christianity or possible future opposition? Our messiah is their anti Christ and their messiah is our antichrist ...

At least until Jesus comes to unite us in truth ...

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Zechariah 14 says much, and Israel is assisted during the end.

Not sure how it happens, though.

Grip Docility said:

Zechariah 14 says much, and Israel is assisted during the end.

Not sure how it happens, though.

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For your information, the Dispensationalists and Futurists misinterpreted Zechariah 14 because they believe this has to do with the physical war against modern national Israel nor the Second Coming. God did not talk about that. If you read the article below, it will show biblically that this has to do more with the FIRST Coming of Christ, the Fall of Old Testament Congregation (mountain divided) to make the way for the remanent escape into the New Testament congregation, where Christ becomes a chief cornerstone and built the church under the Feast of Tabernacle since Pentecost. Spiritual discernment!

To learn more about it, may read the following article below:

Feast of Tabernacle

dfw69 said:

If I'm correct on my theory that day will not happen in the near future....instead some 490 years or so..

In the meantime Israel will rise up in power....and will boast many things for many years when they do rise ....

God will send punishment for thier inquiries but they will repent and the lord will save them....

What causes the nations to rise up in the last days against jerusalem is unknown but it has something to do with them believing god is leading them to battle against them in the form of the anti Christ...

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Islam would serve that deception well.

It’s like the Pharisees that persecuted Christ, but worse.

The Anti Christ does take over the Holy City.

dfw69 said:

Try reasoning that scripture from a Judaism standpoint and with the idea of a soon coming Jewish kingdom where Jehovah is God and king and not Jesus.....sheds a new light ...U know what I mean?

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Joel 3, though