Is God just choosing one over the another?????????

sdowney717 said:

I have posted plenty of verses that tell you believers have eternal everlasting life and do not come under condemnation, you just do not believe what the scripture says. You keep dredging up scriptures you think points to possible eternal damnation for current believers in Christ. Sorry but they are frauds, hypocrites fakes, pretenders, not born of God, If they depart the faith in unbelief...What kind of born of God believer would consider the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified an unholy thing? Not a single one would.
The book of Hebrews is written to the Jews who are very familiar with the OC, and not very familiar with the NC, it is pointing to the superiority of the NC over the OC, and if you disregard the NC and fall back on the OC, your in serious trouble, which many JEWS refused to believe in Christ. The OC was destroyed, passed away when Christ began the NC in His blood, there is no more OC anymore. There was no covenant at all if they do not embrace the New Covenant in Christ, just certain looking forward to destruction for them.

John 5

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

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are the Jews that Hebrews is written to, born-again believers, or completely unsaved? is all that is in this Epistle and elsewhere in the NT for ALL believers, or some?

sdowney717 said:

For whom He foreknew, He did also predestine to be conformed to the image of Christ. That foreknowledge is not about what they did, it is about them personally as in a relationship.
And 1 Peter 1 is very much about election and predestination.
Peter greets the beloved elect of God, who have been chosen according to God foreknowing them, (His foreknowledge). Elect means chosen of God for salvation, and because of that, He makes us holy by making us begotten again according to His mercy, (sanctified) and we are therefore obedient to the gospel message, and we receive the blood sprinkling of the atonement. We are chosen to be obedient to Jesus Christ and be forgiven all of our sins.

1 Peter 1 New International Version (NIV)
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Praise to God for a Living Hope
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are born again by His mercy, by grace you have been saved and that is not of yourself, it is God's gift lest any flesh should BOAST! God accomplishes this by the gift of faith to us.

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I see you like the NIV.

Try reading some different versions...it might be of help.

1 Peter 1:2 NASB

New American Standard Bible
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

New International Version
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.


English Standard Version
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.


Berean Study Bible
chosen by the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.


King James Bible
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Christian Standard Bible
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient and to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Those who have been chosen in the prior knowledge of God The Father by sanctification of The Spirit, for obedience and for the sprinkling of the blood of Yeshua The Messiah. Grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, unto the sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you and peace be multiplied.


I ran across a couple that said God chose us before time, but the vast preponderance has the word FOREKNOWLEDGE.

Now, I ask you, did the theologians who translated the original manuscripts know more or less than John Calvin??

Why believe Calvin?
Why not believe the bible?

sdowney717 said:

If God chooses those who choose Christ on their own, then, the flesh would have reason to glory.
1 Corinthians 1:28-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
28 and the [a]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

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I suggest you stop worrying about the flesh having reason to glory and begin thinking about this:

WHAT IS THE NATURE OF GOD??

Is God a God of love?
1 John 4:8
8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Is God a God of mercy?
Luke 6:36 JESUS SAID...
36“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

Is God just?
Isaiah 30:18
18Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you,
And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you.
For the LORD is a God of justice;
How blessed are all those who long for Him.

Now does that sound to you like a God that would choose some for heaven and abandon the rest for hell?

Certainly not!

God wishes for LALL MEN to be saved...
2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

As for 1 Corinthians 1:28-30
If we look to see who is a Christian, we find that most are the "small" people of the world and not the "mighty" of the world. Although that is also possible, of course since God welcomes anyone and everyone.

God can work well using the "despised" things of this world -- those that are no one special and create them to be someone special.

God makes them to be righteous and wise through our Lord Jesus...and through Jesus it is that we are made such --- so as not to glory in ourselves. We have only God to thank.

Personally, I don't know anybody who pats themselves on the back for knowing God, but rather, they are thankful every day for knowing Him.

Mountainmanbob said:

13 As it is written, v“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? wIs there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, x“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,2 but on God, who has mercy. 17

ESV study bible notes
Rom. 9:14–15 Since God chose Jacob instead of Esau before they were born, without regard to how good or bad either of them would be, the question naturally arises: Is God just in choosing one over the other? God is just because no one deserves to be saved (cf. 3:23), and the salvation of anyone at all is due to God’s mercy alone, as the citation of Ex. 33:19 affirms.

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If God chose His vessels of mercy before the foundation of the world, so what realm was that time?.

Eternal realm was, so surely vessels of mercy/us were spiritually being : Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth,…….., Noah,…….., Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, ……, Us, Last name in the book of life .

We are confused about mankind living in this perishable earth, They are not all equal in the eyes of God :

Rom9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

“Vessel unto honour” = e.g. Physically Jacob.

“another unto dishonor” = e.g. Physically Esau.

The vessels of mercy = the chosen = born of God = spiritual being that one day surely will be sent to sojourn/wander to this perishable earth (Zec12:1 ,1Pet1:17 ) = the good seed /the children of the Kingdom (Mat13:37-38).

Zec12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him ( valid only for Israel = definitively Chosen people for OT, and spiritually Israel for NT ).

1Pet1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear


Mat13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil (resides within the born of flesh); the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels


The vessels of wrath = the devil that one day surely eats dust (Gen3:14)/ resides within born of flesh people (John8:44 , Luk11:24-26 )/filling the born of flesh people.


Gen3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life

John8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it


Luk11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.

11:26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first


So it is clear that Jacob is totally different with Esau in the eyes of God, God put Jacob’s spirit within the baby named Jacob, but God did not put any spirit within the baby named Esau, so this is actually the reason why God loved Jacob, and hated Esau.

Humans multiplication mechanism merely is a necessity matching to the perishable realm boundary , for the survival of the living creature in this realm can be kept to exist , and utterly not a way to create spirit that one day surely will inherit the eternal realm ( John1:12-13) ( angels need not this mechanism to keep them survive , because in the eternal realm time will never play any role ).



John1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man (not depend on the multiplication mechanism , see Mat3:9 ) , but of God


Mat3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham

Mountainmanbob said:

13 As it is written, v“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? wIs there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, x“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,2 but on God, who has mercy. 17

ESV study bible notes
Rom. 9:14–15 Since God chose Jacob instead of Esau before they were born, without regard to how good or bad either of them would be, the question naturally arises: Is God just in choosing one over the other? God is just because no one deserves to be saved (cf. 3:23), and the salvation of anyone at all is due to God’s mercy alone, as the citation of Ex. 33:19 affirms.

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If you read about the life of Esau, you will find that God blessed him personally as well as his offspring. God promised the descendents of Esau land or at least gave them land. When their behaviour changed to evil, God "hated them" and I assume they lost their land same as Israel lost their land when they became evil.

But God had a different plan for Israel (Messiah for the world) and so followed them up and until that was fulfilled. What God did for the Edomites (descendants of Esau) is not recorded in our information. So the Esau that "God hated" were the evil descendants and the time Malachi recorded those words, the man Esau was long dead.

Now Jacob was chosen to be in the line of the Messiah. That is true. And that was before they were born, we can assume. Same as He chose Isaac and Ruth and David and a long line of ancestors.

I can only recommend you avoid Calvinist commentaries as they will lead to the obvious questions about the character of God that is at the heart of the theology. The character of God is trashed in those presentations and while you obviously wonder and care, the Calvinist theology does not. Anyone who accepts God doing evil in their theology and calls it "OK cause none of us deserve good" neither understands God nor understands evil. Go elsewhere rapidly, is my advise.

Dorothy Mae said:

If you read about the life of Esau, you will find that God blessed him personally as well as his offspring. God promised the descendents of Esau land or at least gave them land. When their behaviour changed to evil, God "hated them" and I assume they lost their land same as Israel lost their land when they became evil.

But God had a different plan for Israel (Messiah for the world) and so followed them up and until that was fulfilled. What God did for the Edomites (descendants of Esau) is not recorded in our information. So the Esau that "God hated" were the evil descendants and the time Malachi recorded those words, the man Esau was long dead.

Now Jacob was chosen to be in the line of the Messiah. That is true. And that was before they were born, we can assume. Same as He chose Isaac and Ruth and David and a long line of ancestors.

I can only recommend you avoid Calvinist commentaries as they will lead to the obvious questions about the character of God that is at the heart of the theology. The character of God is trashed in those presentations and while you obviously wonder and care, the Calvinist theology does not. Anyone who accepts God doing evil in their theology and calls it "OK cause none of us deserve good" neither understands God nor understands evil. Go elsewhere rapidly, is my advise.

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God only ever saves His people, the rest perish and-or are killed. Peter even refers to some as like mad brutes born only to be caught and killed, meaning that was their ordained of God purpose, they perish in their spiritual filth.

Exodus 4:22-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.” ’ ”

Exodus 3:10
Come now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of
Israel, out of Egypt.”

2 Peter 2:12
[ Depravity of False Teachers ] But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

So don't speak evil of the scriptures, calvinism is systematic theology aligned properly with scripture.

sdowney717 said:

God only ever saves His people, the rest perish and-or are killed. Peter even refers to some as like mad brutes born only to be caught and killed, meaning that was their ordained of God purpose, they perish in their spiritual filth.

Exodus 4:22-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.” ’ ”

Exodus 3:10
Come now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of
Israel, out of Egypt.”

2 Peter 2:12
[ Depravity of False Teachers ] But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

So don't speak evil of the scriptures, calvinism is systematic theology aligned properly with scripture.

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Upon reading the first sentence and it was clear you are a Calvinists. For those who have not yet picked up on the consistant traits.... here they are.

From talking to many Calvinists, I notice two kinds emerge. The first are like the above poster. They talk or write blithly of the death or eternal suffering of people without batting an eye. Jesus wept over Jerusalem but this kind of Calvinist would say they were predestined for this and not care a bit. The second kind of Calvinist finds this hardness appauling and so is what I call the soft Calvinist. They care very much and would have wept with Jesus over Jerusalem. But when asked why Jesus was weeping when Jesus was God, they would have no intellectual answer. They have committed intellectual suicide and turned the mind off. These kind are preferable to talk to but conversations will not run deep as they have no answers as to why they believe as they do about God. They just believe it.

For the record I do not really want to engage with Calvinists for the above reasons but I had to tell the OP the reason why he was not understanding the text. He used a Calvinist reference.

Dorothy Mae said:

Upon reading the first sentence and it was clear you are a Calvinists. For those who have not yet picked up on the consistant traits.... here they are.

From talking to many Calvinists, I notice two kinds emerge. The first are like the above poster. They talk or write blithly of the death or eternal suffering of people without batting an eye. Jesus wept over Jerusalem but this kind of Calvinist would say they were predestined for this and not care a bit. The second kind of Calvinist finds this hardness appauling and so is what I call the soft Calvinist. They care very much and would have wept with Jesus over Jerusalem. But when asked why Jesus was weeping when Jesus was God, they would have no intellectual answer. They have committed intellectual suicide and turned the mind off. These kind are preferable to talk to but conversations will not run deep as they have no answers as to why they believe as they do about God. They just believe it.

For the record I do not really want to engage with Calvinists for the above reasons but I had to tell the OP the reason why he was not understanding the text. He used a Calvinist reference.

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Don't speak evil of things you do not understand, if you do not understand calvinism, then you do not understand scripture.

You view of God is not the God of the scriptures. For example only for those whom Christ wills to know God and Christ will know God and Christ and all the rest will die in their sins unforgiven, not knowing God or Christ. And this is a truth Christ rejoices in, meaning he was glad.

Luke 10:21-22 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All[a] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

No why would Christ say that, because so many people think God does not interfere with their free will choices. He says it because it is the truth. Unless He wills you to know God, personally, as in HIS choice, you will not know God.

The free will choice of unregenerate man is to hate God and Christ as they are evil natured brute beasts, born only to be caught and destroyed who perish in their own corruption.
They are blinded in their minds by the devil and desire to do the will of their father Satan, even while claiming God is their father and they his children. They are CHILDREN of WRATH, but in your thinking this is not so.

Ephesians 2:1-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Some people can read this whole thread, perhaps ponder the scriptures that speak about the glory of God's salvation for those He has foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, but their mind remains shut to the truth and are still yet God's opponents as they remain captured by the devil. Unless God grants you to repent, you will remain captured by Satan to do Satan's bidding.

sdowney717 said:

Don't speak evil of things you do not understand, if you do not understand calvinism, then you do not understand scripture.

You view of God is not the God of the scriptures. For example only for those whom Christ wills to know God and Christ will know God and Christ and all the rest will die in their sins unforgiven, not knowing God or Christ. And this is a truth Christ rejoices in, meaning he was glad.

Luke 10:21-22 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All[a] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

No why would Christ say that, because so many people think God does not interfere with their free will choices. He says it because it is the truth. Unless He wills you to know God, personally, as in HIS choice, you will not know God.

The free will choice of unregenerate man is to hate God and Christ as they are evil natured brute beasts, born only to be caught and destroyed who perish in their own corruption.
They are blinded in their minds by the devil and desire to do the will of their father Satan, even while claiming God is their father and they his children. They are CHILDREN of WRATH, but in your thinking this is not so.

Ephesians 2:1-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

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The other thing that is somewhat scary about Calvinists, is that they are extremely intolerate of other positions. (See above in blue which I added.) This goes all the way back to Calvin himself who had those who disagreed with him exiled or executed and some under horrible suffering. One disagreed with Calvin at their peril. So this spirit enters into calvinists and makes them intolerant of those who do not accept the teachings of Calvin. The above is a good example.

A centinneal of Calvin occured here (Switzerland) a few years ago and there was a full page article on Calvin from the point of view of the Geneveites. They hated him because he was an intolerant tyrant. They gave details. There was nothing good that anyone wrote who had lived in Geneva at that time. Visitors might have been impressed but they did not have to live under his oppression. If find the same spirit in Calvinists today if they are of the harder sort. The soft Calvinists don't like that and temper than temptation. (They so hated Calvin that they threw his body once dead into an unmarked grave, a very serious deviation from the culture.)

For the record, I understand Calvinism very well. That is why I reject it. The more I learned, the more I saw it was an option that was not representative of the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, anyone who walked with God, and the fruit is and has been very bad. "As a man thinks, so is he" is very apparent in Calvinists who have been long in the camp from my experience.

sdowney717 said:

Some people can read this whole thread, perhaps ponder the scriptures that speak about the glory of God's salvation for those He has foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, but their mind remains shut to the truth and are still yet God's opponents as they remain captured by the devil. Unless God grants you to repent, you will remain captured by Satan to do Satan's bidding.

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Ah, so everyone who fails to repent can be blamed on God not granting them repentance. Would you like scriptures to show that men are called to repent and not called to ask God to grant them repentance?

Dorothy Mae said:

Ah, so everyone who fails to repent can be blamed on God not granting them repentance. Would you like scriptures to show that men are called to repent and not called to ask God to grant them repentance?

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Not interested as you simply ignore what Christ says about these things. The devil also questioned God's word both to Eve and Christ.

Dorothy Mae said:

The other thing that is somewhat scary about Calvinists, is that they are extremely intolerate of other positions. (See above in blue which I added.) This goes all the way back to Calvin himself who had those who disagreed with him exiled or executed and some under horrible suffering. One disagreed with Calvin at their peril. So this spirit enters into calvinists and makes them intolerant of those who do not accept the teachings of Calvin. The above is a good example.

A centinneal of Calvin occrred here (Switzerland) a few years ago and there was a fill page article on Calvin from the point of view of the Geneveites. They hated him because he was an intolerant tyrant. There was nothing good that anyone wrote who had lived in Geneva at that time. Visitors might have been impressed but they did not have to live under his oppression. If find the same spirit in Calvinists today if they are of the harder sort. The soft Calvinists don't like that and temper than temptation.

For the record, I understand Calvinism very well. That is why I reject it. The more I learned, the more I saw it was an option that was not representative of the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, anyone who walked with God, and the fruit is and has been very bad. "As a man thinks, so is he" is very apparent in Calvinists who have been long in the camp from my experience.

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They are also very prideful people, believing only they understand scripture and everyone else does not because the others (us) are not CAPABLE of accepting a God that predestines and does horrible things. So they feel this puts them on a higher plain.

Pride---the number one sin.

sdowney717 said:

Some people can read this whole thread, perhaps ponder the scriptures that speak about the glory of God's salvation for those He has foreknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, but their mind remains shut to the truth and are still yet God's opponents as they remain captured by the devil. Unless God grants you to repent, you will remain captured by Satan to do Satan's bidding.

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But God is MAKING me do satan's bidding!!!
What am I to do?
What would YOU recommend?

sdowney717 said:

Not interested as you simply ignore what Christ says about these things. The devil also questioned God's word both to Eve and Christ.

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Again, the Calvinist intolerance and unwillingness to dialogue along with the usual ad hominem attack. Calvinists and atheists are very much alike when trying to talk to them. Both tend to be intolerant (some atheists are better than Calvinists here) and both resort quickly to ad hominem.

sdowney717 said:

Not interested as you simply ignore what Christ says about these things. The devil also questioned God's word both to Eve and Christ.

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And by their very own free will, they decided to eat the fruit.
God was a good God back then.
He made a nice world for Adam and Eve.
He made animals and grass and trees and a beautiful night sky.
He loved them and told them they were the stewards of the earth.
They got to name all the animals! An important function.

So what happened?
Did God change?
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Adam and Eve changed.
But did God change from a good God to an evil God?

Dorothy Mae said:

Again, the Calvinist intolerance and unwillingness to dialogue along with the usual ad hominem attack. Calvinists and atheists are very much alike when trying to talk to them. Both tend to be intolerant (some atheists are better than Calvinists here) and both resort quickly to ad hominem.

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Maybe if they hear THE TRUTH, it makes them doubt their own beliefs.

GodsGrace101 said:

Maybe if they hear THE TRUTH, it makes them doubt their own beliefs.

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This is likely to be true. But I also think that there is some kind of spiritual stronghold in Calvinism that gribs and blinds those who embrace it. This is likely to be allowed because they willingly embrace a theology that insults the character of God but guarantees Heaven for those who embrace it. So because they are willing to believe a theology that trashes the character of God, there is blindness that allowed to affect them. This is just my personal opinion but it comes from talking to many of them and seeing the same intolerance, same blindness, same aggression against anyone who merely believes something different. This is not holy. One can read the response of the true prophets of God who walked with God. They were never aggressive against those who disagreed with them. Calvinists get really aggressive. This is seen in cults and other groups who embraced untruths as well.

Dorothy Mae said:

This is likely to be true. But I also think that there is some kind of spiritual stronghold in Calvinism that gribs and blinds those who embrace it. This is likely to be allowed because they willingly embrace a theology that insults the character of God but guarantees Heaven for those who embrace it. So because they are willing to believe a theology that trashes the character of God, there is blindness that allowed to affect them. This is just my personal opinion but it comes from talking to many of them and seeing the same intolerance, same blindness, same aggression against anyone who merely believes something different. This is not holy. One can read the response of the true prophets of God who walked with God. They were never aggressive against those who disagreed with them. Calvinists get really aggressive. This is seen in cults and other groups who embraced untruths as well.

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This is my pet peeve too.
It changes the character of God.
All I say is: How could anyone worship a God that sends people to hell through no fault of their own?
How is that love, mercy, or justice?