7th Trumpet Rapture?

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jerry kelso

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Jerry Kelso, do you realize how rude and unchristian your posts are?
You make a point of denigrating and accusing anyone who disagrees with you.

If anyone who reads your confused and opiniated posts gets anything of value from them, I would be very surprised.
I and others have tried to correct your wrong beliefs, but we just get abuse and your attitude of 'Jerry Kelso has the truth and all you saps are misled', does not make for reasoned discussion, as we expect on this forum. Your grammar and sentence construction also make for hard reading.

In other words; Pull your head in! You don't know it all- we don't know it all, but we want to do our best to understand what God actually does plan for our future.

keras,

1. I say nothing worse than anything anyone else says about me.
I don’t mind a difference about a position but I don’t like people being unfair.
I am not against the person but their post.
I have had people make out a perception that I am practically going to hell because I believe dispensationally or about the pre-rapture etc.

2. You and others have tried to correct my beliefs?
I give scripture context and reconcile all the scriptures together.
Many just want to give their position and claim it is truth by a couple of scriptures or faulty hermeneutics or by their perception of what seems to be an open and shut case and it is not.
Some know there position but not the other persons.
I try my best to go to head to head with every major point. Others wanting to pick and choose and skate other parts because they have no answer for it.

3. I wouldn’t say your wording is easy to understand either but I am not complaining because I know the different positions about subjects.

4. Another thing is that people don’t understand about proper rebuttal. They think if they put a scripture down long enough it is going to prove their point.

5. I don’t denigrate people because I don’t know them. I am strong about where their posts and bad hermeneutics go awry.
I may use a pronoun, but it their lack of evidence not themselves as a person.

6. I don’t think I have ever used thoughts of saps or pull your head in!
I have said I don’t know it all but I studied just as much if not more than any other on this forum.

7. I am strong and the truth is stronger.
I do take offense to those being unfair in exegesis and have no answer and will sidestep the truth and just keep pounding non truth. They do it on purpose and are more interested in protecting their position than knowing the truth.

8. I agree sometime we all go too long and have so many different things at one time that any of us can get confusing.


9. You personally have tended to give the impression as the scholar or teacher of prophecy which carries weight over another. That doesn’t bother me because I believe in proper exegesis.
Of what I remember your posts were about the desolation’s of Israel’s and Judah’s were permanent and that the promises of Israel and Judah canceled the eternal covenants that are unconditional to them which is impossible but they have to repent and Christ will put his law into their minds and hearts.
When a person takes away their eternal covenants and apply them to the church is replacement theology.
It is not about being two different peoples for all will be under the NC.
The difference is the gifts and calling and positions of authority that are different from the church age saints. I have given scriptural backup and plain logic but nobody pays attention to that obviously.
I believe in context and many don’t and they think I make things up because I believe in context.
That is why I challenge with the context of 1 Corinthians 15 when Paul said “I die daily”what did he mean?
Most people don’t get it and I know the pat answer they will give which is not the answer.
Can you tell me what Paul meant with “I die daily”. Let me know what you think he meant.
Last. I am sorry you feel the way you do but you are misunderstanding many things even though I understand why you believe that because I am persistent for the truth.
I too don’t think you understand some of the history I have with some in particular and I can assure you I have been attacked
unfairly but I have no ill will towards them though I could and be justified.
I am interested in the truth of the word.
You want to try again? Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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When a person takes away their eternal covenants and apply them to the church is replacement theology.

"Replacement Theology" is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

It is replacing the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

It is replacing the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26.

It is replacing the New Covenant fulfilled at Calvary for all races of people, with a covenant for the modern State of Israel in Romans 11:27.

It is replacing a Gospel based only on Grace, with a Gospel based partially on race.

It is replacing the New Covenant fulfilled by Christ in Daniel 9:27, with a "treaty" broken by an "antichrist" not found in the chapter, by adding a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

Modern Dispensational Theology is the true form of "Replacement Theology".


.
 
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jerry kelso

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"Replacement Theology" is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

It is replacing the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

It is replacing the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26.

It is replacing the New Covenant fulfilled at Calvary for all races of people, with a covenant for the modern State of Israel in Romans 11:27.

It is replacing a Gospel based only on Grace, with a Gospel based partially on race.

It is replacing the New Covenant fulfilled by Christ in Daniel 9:27, with a "treaty" broken by an "antichrist" not found in the chapter, by adding a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

Modern Dispensational Theology is the true form of "Replacement Theology".


.

baberean2,

1. Sorry, you have it backwards.
Replacement Theology is replacing the church for the Kingdom promises of the land in the Kingdom area of the throne and the throne itself which will be Judah and Mt. Zion.

2. The spiritual seed is Christ and that cannot be replaced by Jew or Gentile.

3. Galatians 3:16: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. This refers to verse 14; That the blessing might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Going back to verse 16: He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
To Abraham and physical descendants of Israel the promise was made through covenant.
Israel knew gentiles would be saved.
Jesus was saying there would many seeds concerning salvation both Jews and Gentiles, but they would be as one spiritually.
This had already happened before Paul wrote to the backslidden Galatians.
The mystery of the church in Ephesians 2 was already an established fact in Acts 10.
There is not one thing about Gentiles inheriting the land or throne of Israel in the book of Galatians.

4. Galatians says nothing about the physical seed of Israel replacing the many seeds of Jews and Gentiles of the church age.

5. I repeat a physical seed cannot replace a Spiritual seed for salvation. That is silly.

6. To be a member of the church one has be saved by the New Covenant.
The Christians are promised rulership positions throughout the KoH. And our works of stewardship will determine where and what position we will have as Kings, Priests, and rulers.
For a Jew to enter into covenant to receive the KoH gifts and calling they have to be saved by the New Covenant.
In this manner salvation of the many seeds are as one for the veil has been rent and everyone is on the same level.
The land and the throne are specific to Israel because God promises eternally.
So this has nothing to with one spiritual seed replacing another.

7. True Replacement Theology is when people put the church at the head of the nations and taking ownership of the land of Israel and inheriting the Throne and performing the feasts etc.

8. To sum Galatians up in Chapter 3 is about salvation.
It is about Gentiles being blessed through Abraham and his seed which was Israel because they were given the oracles of God Romans 3:1-2.
As a spiritual seed, he saith not, And to seeds as of many, but as one.
He wasn’t saying there wouldn’t be many seeds though it appears to by the phrase; “he saith not.”
but as of one. One doesn’t mean one seed in number but it means one in harmony.

9. All saved people will be one in Christ under the New Covenant.
This has nothing to do with the KoH gifts and callings of Israel and Judah who will become one stick.
Israel and Judah will be backslidden and have to be saved under the New Covenant so they can be in harmony spiritually and take their rightful place in the KoH reign.

10. Israel will be the focus of propagating the Gospel more than the Church but this doesn’t mean they are above the church especially spiritually.

11. Replacement Theology is not according to race. There is only one seed of salvation which is Christ Galatians 3:16. All seeds that are saved will be one in harmony Galatians 3:16.
So you have not only missed the scripture of what you think dispensationalism says about seeds but also that it deals with race. Jerry Kelso
 
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keras

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That is why I challenge with the context of 1 Corinthians 15 when Paul said “I die daily”what did he mean?
Most people don’t get it and I know the pat answer they will give which is not the answer.
Can you tell me what Paul meant with “I die daily”. Let me know what you think he meant.
Paul's teachings in 1 Corinthians 15:35-57, are all about receiving immortality for those who are worthy. This will happen after the Millennium, when the Book of Life is opened. Proved by Revelation 20:11-15 and 21:1-7, where it is only then that Death will be no more. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:54-56
To die daily, is to die to self and become the Lord's servant, doing His will every day.

I don't like to be judgmental about your posts, but I comment on them, because you should be more careful with your grammar, spelling and words used on this; an international forum. People like myself, see simple mistakes and straight away, your posts are discounted as coming from a careless and too hasty a person.
I see several words missed, punctuations left out, mis-spellings and incoherent sentences, in your post #1267. It was an improvement on earlier ones!
I am interested in the truth of the word.
You want to try again? Jerry kelso
If you seriously want to know the truth of God's plans for His people during the hard times ahead, they you must firstly clear your mind of any teachings of man.
Then spend about 7 years of intensive study of the Prophetic Word, writing them out, pondering them and eventually a coherent picture will emerge, as it has for me.
Even then, as Daniel 12:9-10 says: only a few will understand. Pray to be among them!
 
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jerry kelso

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Paul's teachings in 1 Corinthians 15:35-57, are all about receiving immortality for those who are worthy. This will happen after the Millennium, when the Book of Life is opened. Proved by Revelation 20:11-15 and 21:1-7, where it is only then that Death will be no more. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:54-56
To die daily, is to die to self and become the Lord's servant, doing His will every day.

I don't like to be judgmental about your posts, but I comment on them, because you should be more careful with your grammar, spelling and words used on this; an international forum. People like myself, see simple mistakes and straight away, your posts are discounted as coming from a careless and too hasty a person.
I see several words missed, punctuations left out, mis-spellings and incoherent sentences, in your post #1267. It was an improvement on earlier ones!

If you seriously want to know the truth of God's plans for His people during the hard times ahead, they you must firstly clear your mind of any teachings of man.
Then spend about 7 years of intensive study of the Prophetic Word, writing them out, pondering them and eventually a coherent picture will emerge, as it has for me.
Even then, as Daniel 12:9-10 says: only a few will understand. Pray to be among them!

keras,

1. Let’s start out with the main question about Paul saying “I die daily”.

2. Dying to self is not the context. Paul already died to self when he got saved and he believed in glorying in the cross Galatians 6:14.
Most people saying dying to sin which is not true because he believed in dying to sin once Romans 6:10.

3. Paul said the gospel was the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Verse 12 is the key for he is talking to people who didn’t believe in the physical resurrection.
If there is no physical resurrection then Christ died in vain, their faith was in vain, they were still in sin and those who had fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
Christ the firstfruits of the resurrection all the way through the millennial kingdom where Christ must reign till he hath put all his enemies under his feet verse 25. Verse 26, the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death which happens in Revelation 20:14. This is at the end of the GWTJ.
1 Corinthians 15:28 is about the Son giving the millennial kingdom to the Father so God may be all in all. This will be the physical KoG universal and the physical KoH in perfect Harmony.

4. In verse 29, Paul asked the question of those who believed in baptism for the dead, what good is baptism for the dead if they rise not at all.
Then he asked the next question in verse 30; And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
Verse 31 says; I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord I die daily.

5. It was all about physical resurrection not dying to self.
Paul said in verse 32 basically if there is no hope of a physical resurrection then they might as well eat, drink and be merry because there is no tomorrow.

6. Paul said in Romans 8:36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
They put their lives on the line everyday for the cause of Christ and could be killed physically any day. So if there was no hope of a physical resurrection then their preaching and salvation etc. was all in vain.

7. 2 Corinthians 4:10: Always bearing about in the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

8. The conclusion is that the message of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was why they put their lives on the line everyday that they could be killed for and if there was no hope of a physical resurrection all was in vain.
This is the true context.
If people don’t understand the immediate context they will wrench it out of context and it can result in wrong doctrine. Jerry kelso
 
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Riberra

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8. The conclusion is that the message of the DEATH , BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Christ was why they put their lives on the line everyday that they could be killed for and if there was no hope of a physical resurrection all was in vain.
This is the true context.
If people don’t understand the immediate context they will wrench it out of context and it can result in wrong doctrine. Jerry kelso
Jerry ....do you understand that the SAVED will goes through these 3 process iethe DEATH , BURIAL and RESURRECTION ...think about it !!!

You don't even realize how much the pre-tribers have been fooled and totally endocrine by false teachers to falsely believe that they live in the generation whose a select group of them [''supposedly wise virgins'']will avoid these 3 process whom Christ have pass through ie DEATH , BURIAL and RESURRECTION ....

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 talk about a REMAIN of believers alive UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS WHO WILL JOIN THE DEAD BELIEVERS RESURRECTED...
 
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keras

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The conclusion is that the message of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was why they put their lives on the line everyday that they could be killed for and if there was no hope of a physical resurrection all was in vain.
This is the true context.
This is fine, we have the promise of Eternal life. John 3:16
But, only provided we stand firm in our faith through trials and testing. OSAS is a myth.
If people don’t understand the immediate context they will wrench it out of context and it can result in wrong doctrine. Jerry kelso
So, lets hear from you, what context you place: ...in a twinkling of an eye, we will be changed … 1 Corinthians 15:50-56
Some serious Jerry Kelso exegesis, with proofs of when it will happen, who will receive it and what happens afterwards.
 
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Cynthia1234

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I know this may seem like a silly question... But I have to ask due to all the differing opinions out there on when the rapture will take place.

First, I'd like to state that I am operating based off the assumption that the rapture of the Church occurs at the 7th trumpet blast.

Who out there shares that viewpoint, and why? I'm very interested in this. You could say that this is a mid-trib rapture idea, and where I heard about this was at the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, MO.

But Personally, like most believers, I'm not sure when the rapture will happen...

Anyway, make some good arguments for me! I'd love to indulge in some critical thinking here!

2 Thessalonians 2:2
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Jeremiah 30:7
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

There are many pieces of scripture that shows a pre-trip rapture. Here is something I find quite ''troubling''. ; ) In 2 Thess 2:2, We are told not to be troubled till the rapture. But the tribulation period is also called Jacob's trouble. Just something to think about!

2 Thessalonians 3:16
16 Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.

1 Peter 5:14
14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

2 John 3
3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

1 Corinthians 1:3
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 6:23
23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 6:1-4
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Here is another one. We are promised peace, but peace is taken away at the second seal, and the antichrist is unleashed at the first seal conquering. How are we to have peace, when it is taken away? How is a time of trouble peaceful? I personally used to believe the post-trib rapture, and to be honest with you, I couldn't sleep at night... Can you?
 
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keras

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There are many pieces of scripture that shows a pre-trip rapture
But none that actually state that God intends to remove His Church from any trials and testing. Nowhere does scripture say we go to heaven, ever. Heaven eventually comes down to us. Revelation 21:1-7
 
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Cynthia1234

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But none that actually state that God intends to remove His Church from any trials and testing. Nowhere does scripture say we go to heaven, ever. Heaven eventually comes down to us. Revelation 21:1-7
Revelation 4:1-2
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.



Revelation 5:8-12

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.


9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;


12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.


Revelation 19:14-15
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.


15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.



In Rev. 4, John was caught up to heaven, so that he was shown thing that are to come. In Rev. 5, he saw the four beasts (We know that the four beasts have always been in heaven and will always stay there) with the 20 elders and thousand times ten thousands, and thousands of thousands of angels in heaven from all the nations. They sang a song praising God for redeeming them with his blood. We know we are redeemed by his blood (Acts 20:28). And this is done before the seals are open (Rev. 5:9). They say that the lamb is worthy to open the book and the seals. In Rev. 19, we see Jesus coming down from heaven with his army of angels and he shall rule over the earth after smiting the nations. We know that at the resurrection (rapture), we become as the angels of heaven (Matt. 22:30) and that we should meet Jesus in the clouds (1 Thess 4:17). So, in summary, we who are saved, are in heaven before the seals are opened, and we come back on earth with Jesus at his second coming as an army of angels.
 
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BABerean2

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So, in summary, we who are saved, are in heaven before the seals are opened, and we come back on earth with Jesus at his second coming as an army of angels.

They are the Saints which have already died.

They are described in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, as those who "sleep".


.
 
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jerry kelso

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Jerry ....do you understand that the SAVED will goes through these 3 process iethe DEATH , BURIAL and RESURRECTION ...think about it !!!

You don't even realize how much the pre-tribers have been fooled and totally endocrine by false teachers to falsely believe that they live in the generation whose a select group of them [''supposedly wise virgins'']will avoid these 3 process whom Christ have pass through ie DEATH , BURIAL and RESURRECTION ....

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 talk about a REMAIN of believers alive UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS WHO WILL JOIN THE DEAD BELIEVERS RESURRECTED...

riberra,

The historical context of the 10 virgins is a Jewish wedding and about the KoH reign which was only to the Jews Matthew 10:6-7.
Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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riberra,

The historical context of the 10 virgins is a Jewish wedding and about the KoH reign which was only to the Jews Matthew 10:6-7.
Jerry kelso


The parable of the virgins is found at the beginning of Matthew chapter 25.
At the end of the same chapter we find the Second Coming of Christ in Matthew 25:31-46.

We also find the Great Commission to the Church at the end of Matthew's Gospel.
I hope that does not mess up your attempt to claim it is a book written only to the Jews...


.
 
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ac28

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2Tim 2:15 - the context here is truth vs lies

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Anyone who does not correctly cut God's Word, as per 2Tim 2:15, is NOT approved by God and has need to be ashamed. According to Strong's, rightly divide means to make a straight cut, correctly dissect, or correctly cut. Any version that uses milky little terms like "rightly handling", like the NIV, ESV, ISV, or the RV, is weak, wrong, stupid, and corrupt. The words cut, divide, or separate have to be present to understand the verse. Also, the terms "Divide" or "make A straight cut", indicate that only ONE single cut is needed to satisfy God.

I just downloaded 2 documents from fellow Ac 28:28 dispensationalists, about 10 pages, in all, which list a total of 36 things which were a part of the Acts church that are contradictory to things that are a part of the post-Acts Church. In each, it is impossible for a believer to believe both, so the believer must make a choice of which one he wants to add to his own private interpretation of scripture. These differences are things like

(1) the Callings - the church in Acts had a calling of the New Jerusalem (Gal 4:26 and several vss in Hebrews) and the post-Acts church's calling is Heaven (Col 1:5 - hope always means resurrection; Phil 3:20 - conversation means citizenship; Compare Eph 1:20, where Christ is, with Eph 2:6, where the post-Acts church will go -- same place) . I always dreamed that, if I had a spare million dollars lying around, I would offer it to anyone that could prove, in scripture, that any group besides those Saints in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, have a hope of ever going to Heaven. Of course, my money would be safe

(2) In Eph 5:23, Col 1:18, 2:19, and others, the post-Acts Church is the actual Body of Christ, where He is the actual Head. During Acts, the body of Christ designated the "body of believers". These 2 churches can't be the same, since the members are described as part of the head, ears and eyes, in 1Cor 12:16. The post-Acts church, which is actually part of Christ, will, along with Christ, make up the bridegroom, where the church in Acts will be the Bride, as the abode of the Bride is the New Jerusalem, which, as a figure of speech, was spoken of as the Bride, in Revelation.

Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph 5:30-32
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Those different callings and the different churches are only the tip of the iceberg. My 2 lists contain 36 more of these scriptural conflicts which need not exist, if we would only obey 2Tim 2:15.

****************************************

Anyone that does not rightly divide God's word will never be able to understand the Bible because of all these conflicts, unless one first removes them.There is no scripture that says that but why else would God not approve you if you did not rightly divide. He's not the author of confusion - we are. He wants you to know the truth and He doesn't want you to be confused. He gives yoi So the question is: where could one single cut through scripture eliminate the contradictions and the confusing pick and choose method that is, and has always been, the single greatest problem in Christendom. It is the sole reason behind the wretched denominational church system. I propose there is only one place in scripture where a single cut would accomplish everything. That is at the very end of Acts. Here are what this is the place a single cut will solve all these problems.

What Right Division is
It is a simple way of determining exactly what applies directly to you, as a Gentile, n the Gentile Church today. What and where is your calling and the hope "resurrection) of your calling. It divides out and separated from your doctrine the callings and hopes of other dispensations from your mind and focuses on what is yours today.

What Right Division isn't
It isn't a total elimination of those other 59 books, not in the least. It's only a separating out, of the doctrine that doesn't apply to you, in your mind, when you're trying to figure out what's going to happen to you, your family, etc. It doesn't effect our enjoyment and the tears that can still be shed when we read John, specially. It just tells us that, since Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, much of what He said to them, applied only to them. Very simple. Just believe what your Bible says, where it said it, when it said it, and to whom it said it.

Here's a story that might help you see how this works.

Assume that you and your brother are roommates and are both in your 20s. Once a week, your mother sends a letter to each of you and, since these letters contain a lot of news about what she and your father are doing and other news about things that have happened with mutual friends and other members of your family. In these letters, there will be some things that will only pertain to the person receiving the letter.

Let's say your brother is driving to your parent's house next week and your mother told him in his letter that no one would he home when he got be home and she would put a key under the doormat and there would be plenty of food in the fridge if he was hungry.

Since both brothers are very interested in the news of family and friends, which always make up part of the letter, the two brothers share their letters with each other. Of course, you also read the part about your parents not being home when your brother arrives but, you don't apply it to yourself because you know it was only meant for your brother. When you get your letter, there will be some things that only apply to you.

Same thing as the Acts period vs the post-Acts period, just more complicated.

In the Acts books, there were general topics, like history, but mostly, there are specific items about the church, the gifts, the mysteries, the hope (resurrection = rapture)) of the church, which is essentially all Jewish, because all the saved Gentiles were grafted into Israel are shared a few (very few) of Israel's blessings, like the Gifts and the future rapture.

At the end of Acts, Paul preached to the Jews for the very last time, and it vss 25-27, he pronounced the curse of Isa 6:9-10 against Israel, which rendered them fully blind, as far as a understanding of the scriptures was concerned, especially of seeing Christ as the Messiah proven by the OT. This was prophesized in Hos 1:9, where Israel is called Loammi, not my people. In Hos 6:2, it says that after 2 days (2000 years), God will revive them. This is why I believe that Israel will be back on the scene in 2063, 2000 years after Paul pronounced them fully blinded. In Roman 11:7-10, where Romans was written about Ac 20, Paul pronounced the Isaiah curse, but it says in vs 25 that they were only partially blinded. This partial blindness obviously didn't stop Paul from continuing to go the Jew first, and " I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come", Ac 26:22

The pronounced Isaiah curse give in Ac 28 fully blinded Israel and that's when they were set aside. In the 7 books written after that, there is no evidence of any Jewish activity and all of the Jewish things from Acts, like the Acts Jewish church, and healing and the other Gifts are totally absent . What IS found is a brand new church, with a brand new Calling, and a brand new hope (heaven), With these 3 main things being different, nothing can be the same as Acts.. Also, the ordinances, like the 4 things the Gentile saints in Acts had to keep, the Lord's Supper, water baptism,etc, etc., etc., are done away with. Actually, anything from Acts that is not re-mentioned in Paul's After-Acts booksm hs been done away with, at least for this present no Jew, no Gentile, just individuals, 2000 year present period
 
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BABerean2

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Anyone who does not correctly cut God's Word, as per 2Tim 2:15, is NOT approved by God and has need to be ashamed.

In other words, you are turning your form of modern Dispensational Theology into a cult.


PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf


Rightly Dividing The Word Part 1: Pastor Michael Hoggard

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keras

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In Rev. 4, John was caught up to heaven, so that he was shown thing that are to come. In Rev. 5, he saw the four beasts (We know that the four beasts have always been in heaven and will always stay there) with the 20 elders and thousand times ten thousands, and thousands of thousands of angels in heaven from all the nations. They sang a song praising God for redeeming them with his blood. We know we are redeemed by his blood (Acts 20:28). And this is done before the seals are open (Rev. 5:9). They say that the lamb is worthy to open the book and the seals. In Rev. 19, we see Jesus coming down from heaven with his army of angels and he shall rule over the earth after smiting the nations. We know that at the resurrection (rapture), we become as the angels of heaven (Matt. 22:30) and that we should meet Jesus in the clouds (1 Thess 4:17). So, in summary, we who are saved, are in heaven before the seals are opened, and we come back on earth with Jesus at his second coming as an army of angels.
Cynthia, I see that you have been well taught by people who have the rapture to heaven agenda.
However, I reiterate my claim; There is no scripture that says God will take His people [church] to heaven. Thinking we Christians are to be His army of angels, is a very big stretch, as that idea is never prophesied in the Bible. God has His angelic army already.

But the truth that totally refutes a rapture, is what we are commissioned to do here on earth. That is; to spread the Gospel. Matthew 28:19-20
Nowhere is that task rescinded and we are told we must stand firm in our faith and endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 14:12
 
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ac28

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In other words, you are turning your form of modern Dispensational Theology into a cult.

I said:
Anyone who does not correctly cut God's Word, as per 2Tim 2:15, is NOT approved by God and has need to be ashamed.

2Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1- In other words, what I said above is what it says in 2Tim 2:15.
2- If you rightly divide God's Word, you are approved unto God.
3- Therefore, if you don't rightly divide, you are NOT approved unto God.
4- The only people in the world that even attempt to rightly divide God's Word are dispensationalists.
5- Therefore, the only people that have even a chance at being approved unto God are didpensationalists
6- The Acts 2 and Acts 9 people divide, but not rightly.
7- The only people that rightly divide are Acts 28:28 dispensationalists.
8- Therefore, the only people that are approved unto God are Acts 28:28 dispensationalists.
9- Neither you nor that poor unknowledgeable soul in the video rightly divide
10- Therefore, neither of you are approved unto God
11- Neither of you will ever be approved unto God until you divide (cut, dissect) God's Word and do it correctly.
12- The only people that understand scripture are those who rightly divide
13- That's why God established right division and only approves of those that rightly divide
14- That's another reason why God only approves of Acts 28:28 dispensationalots.
 
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BABerean2

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I said:
Anyone who does not correctly cut God's Word, as per 2Tim 2:15, is NOT approved by God and has need to be ashamed.

2Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1- In other words, what I said above is what it says in 2Tim 2:15.
2- If you rightly divide God's Word, you are approved unto God.
3- Therefore, if you don't rightly divide, you are NOT approved unto God.
4- The only people in the world that even attempt to rightly divide God's Word are dispensationalists.
5- Therefore, the only people that have even a chance at being approved unto God are didpensationalists
6- The Acts 2 and Acts 9 people divide, but not rightly.
7- The only people that rightly divide are Acts 28:28 dispensationalists.
8- Therefore, the only people that are approved unto God are Acts 28:28 dispensationalists.
9- Neither you nor that poor unknowledgeable soul in the video rightly divide
10- Therefore, neither of you are approved unto God
11- Neither of you will ever be approved until you divide (cut, dissect) Gpd's Word and do it correctly.
12- The only people that understand scripture are those who rightly divide
13- That's why God approves of those that rightly divide
14- That's another reason why God only approves of Acts 28:28 dispensationalots.

Like I said earlier, you are claiming that only your system of interpretation is that which is approved by God.

If that is not a cult, then what is it?


.
 
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Drought of the Heart

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I know this may seem like a silly question... But I have to ask due to all the differing opinions out there on when the rapture will take place.

First, I'd like to state that I am operating based off the assumption that the rapture of the Church occurs at the 7th trumpet blast.

Who out there shares that viewpoint, and why? I'm very interested in this. You could say that this is a mid-trib rapture idea, and where I heard about this was at the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, MO.

But Personally, like most believers, I'm not sure when the rapture will happen...

Anyway, make some good arguments for me! I'd love to indulge in some critical thinking here!

Mark 13
32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.

Jesus left us many signs to watch for in Matthew 24 , Mark 13 and Luke 21, 2 Timothy 3 and 2 Peter 3. Things will get worse than Harvey , fires , lava flows and Jesus says this Luke 21: 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Then they will see , it was a while back the Lord placed on my heart we are not ready because we have forgot Who He is as in Job 32-37
 
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