Is God just choosing one over the another?????????

GodsGrace101

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I like communicating with you. A little conversation but, at times you seem to be a little harsh towards my thoughts and even the Bible I read????

Let's play nice now.

After all you are the nice lady trying to set the good example for The Wretched old man up top the mountain okay?

M-Bob

Sure Bob.
Just so you know, I live in the mountains too.
This is a town near where I live...

Castiglione_di_Garfagnana_Tuscany_Italy-1024x768.jpg
 
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sdowney717

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when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans, it is under the New Covenant, this is what he tells Gentile Christians:

"13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

(chapter 11, verses 13-24)

Likewise in Hebrews chapter 3, also to believing Christians;

"7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:“Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did. 10 That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray and they have not known my ways.’ 11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief." (7-19)

Romans 11, is not about individual election to salvation, Paul is speaking to gentiles as a group versus all the jews as a group. Paul's explanation is that salvation left the jews and went out to the gentiles as prophesied, and then at the end God's grace returns to the jews. Out of the nations God saves some gentiles, and some jews also, but not all of them.

Acts 15
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me:

14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’


18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works.

Only those gentiles , the 'all of them who are called by My Name', see that is an active calling, they will believe in Christ, and none of the others will believe. God takes out from the gentiles a people for His name sake, Christ, God is the one doing that work.
 
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sdowney717

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Likewise in Hebrews chapter 3, also to believing Christians;

"7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:“Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did. 10 That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray and they have not known my ways.’ 11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief." (7-19)

Your using this to point towards believing Christians, but even the text you use refutes that idea, as it is taking about unbelievers, people who do not believe. Well of course they are not saved. God only has saved believers. These people were 'empty professors' they talked the talk, but were not convicted of their sin since they were not born of God, so they are not of the Father, and they fell away. How sad for them, they were not of us as apostle John teaches , so they departed the faith.

So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief."

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God

We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.


Here is what happened, they departed the faith because they had no anointing from the Father to know the truth on the inside, since their spirit was not joined one with Christ.
The warning is spoken to all, as examples of what is going to happen sometimes with church people, and to not be surprised when you actually see it happen.

For example in 1 John 2, read and understand those that leave are not believers, v19.
v20-v21, these folks know the Truth and stick with it, because God has revealed it to them by His Spirit to their born of God spirits.
PEOPLE TRY TO DECEIVE ABOUT SALVATION, which is why apostle John writes this way, v26-27, and is confident the church of believers will continue because God has enabled them to do that, to continue to abide in Christ as HE teaches them all things and guaranteed their eternal salvation.

As Jesus said, all that the Father teaches DO come to Christ., John 6:44-45

1 John 2

Deceptions of the Last Hour
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Let Truth Abide in You
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.


26
These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.



 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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Your using this to point towards believing Christians, but even the text you use refutes that idea, as it is taking about unbelievers, people who do not believe. Well of course they are not saved. God only has saved believers. These people were 'empty professors' they talked the talk, but were not convicted of their sin since they were not born of God, so they are not of the Father, and they fell away. How sad for them, they were not of us as apostle John teaches , so they departed the faith.

So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief."

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God

We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.


Here is what happened, they departed the faith because they had no anointing from the Father to know the truth on the inside, since their spirit was not joined one with Christ.
The warning is spoken to all, as examples of what is going to happen sometimes with church people, and to not be surprised when you actually see it happen.

For example in 1 John 2, read and understand those that leave are not believers, v19.
v20-v21, these folks know the Truth and stick with it, because God has revealed it to them by His Spirit to their born of God spirits.
PEOPLE TRY TO DECEIVE ABOUT SALVATION, which is why apostle John writes this way, v26-27, and is confident the church of believers will continue because God has enabled them to do that, to continue to abide in Christ as HE teaches them all things and guaranteed their eternal salvation.

As Jesus said, all that the Father teaches DO come to Christ., John 6:44-45

1 John 2

Deceptions of the Last Hour
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Let Truth Abide in You
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.


26
These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.



Since when did "brothers and sisters" in the NT include unsaved? any Scriptures for this?
 
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sdowney717

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Since when did "brothers and sisters" in the NT include unsaved? any Scriptures for this?
How can I know if you are saved and will continue in the faith? Am I God? No I am not.
In the same way, how could the apostles or early church know if another person was saved, except by what they say and how they lived their life.

But God knows those who are His.
There is such a thing as FALSE BRETHREN in the church. Apostle Peter goes into great details about false brethren which He says are false teachers. They are in the church, and the church can be fooled.


2 Timothy 2:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [a]Christ depart from iniquity.”

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor., etc..., then at the end

24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.


If you do not know the truth, then your following Satan, not God and your end is to be burned like he will be
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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How can I know if you are saved and will continue in the faith? Am I God? No I am not.
In the same way, how could the apostles or early church know if another person was saved, except by what they say and how they lived their life.

But God knows those who are His.
There is such a thing as FALSE BRETHREN in the church. Apostle Peter goes into great details about false brethren which He says are false teachers. They are in the church, and the church can be fooled.


2 Timothy 2:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [a]Christ depart from iniquity.”

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.

The writers of the Holy Bible were all inspired by God the Holy Spirit. Therefore they would know unless you think that they made errors
 
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sdowney717

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The writers of the Holy Bible were all inspired by God the Holy Spirit. Therefore they would know unless you think that they made errors
????

Only if they were gifted by God to know in a particular situation. It seems apostles traveled to various churches and places, they were not always around, so they wrote letters to the churches. So they would not know everything that was happening, unless it become obviously wrong.

Paul cried real tears when he told the church at Ephesus that fierce wolves would rise up in their church to ravage the true sheep, to lead people astray after their false teacher's lusts. To make disciples after their own kind..after he moved on to another place.
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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????

Only if they were gifted by God to know in a particular situation. It seems apostles traveled to various churches and places, they were not always around, so they wrote letters to the churches. So they would not know everything that was happening, unless it become obviously wrong.

When Paul said brothers in Hebrews he most certainly meant true believers
 
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sdowney717

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When Paul said brothers in Hebrews he most certainly meant true believers
Like I said they would not know if they were true believers or not until the end. Only those born of God, are then 'of the Father', and not of the devil and only they will remain true believers.
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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Like I said they would not know if they were true believers or not until the end. Only those born of God, are then 'of the Father', and not of the devil and only they will remain true believers.

This is what is known as a cop out
 
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sdowney717

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If you keep reading from Hebrews 3 to Hebrews 4, you get more teaching about those who enter into His rest, they are the believers. Believers hear the word of God and it is mixed with faith in their hearts, for those who believe DO ENTER INTO HIS REST! And in v3 goes on saying God's works were finished from the foundation of the world. If you truly believed that, then you also believe all the scriptures that tell us about being foreknown and predestined to be adopted into His family, and maybe you would be less concerned about those who deny the faith departing in unbelief, whose end is to be burnt.

Hebrews 4 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Promise of Rest
4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The Word Discovers Our Condition
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
 
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sdowney717

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This is what is known as a cop out
No way, it is scriptural truth.
Your viewing all of this from the human side of life, not from God's pov.

More on believers here showing they are saved eternally.
1 John 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Obedience by Faith
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Those born of God will have faith in Jesus Christ and will be overcomers.
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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No way, it is scriptural truth.
Your viewing all of this from the human side of life, not from God's pov.

More on believers here showing they are saved eternally.
1 John 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Obedience by Faith
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Those born of God will have faith in Jesus Christ and will be overcomers.
No way, it is scriptural truth.
Your viewing all of this from the human side of life, not from God's pov.

More on believers here showing they are saved eternally.
1 John 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Obedience by Faith
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Those born of God will have faith in Jesus Christ and will be overcomers.

I am allowing the Holy Bible to say exactly what it says without my own twist. You don't like what it says here so you have to look for a way out
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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No way, it is scriptural truth.
Your viewing all of this from the human side of life, not from God's pov.

More on believers here showing they are saved eternally.
1 John 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Obedience by Faith
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Those born of God will have faith in Jesus Christ and will be overcomers.

I suppose that you will say that the sanctified in Hebrews 10:29 is about unsaved people
 
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sdowney717

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I suppose that you will say that the sanctified in Hebrews 10:29 is about unsaved people

Do you really believe in Christ?
Here is what Christ says about eternal life and predestination.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
 
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sdowney717

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Hebrews 10:29, is about false brethren in a church, certainly not the attributes of a believer!
Christ says He loses not a single believer that God has given to Him, entrusted to Christ. Not a single one, and all of them Christ raises up on the last day.

And those false believers, this is purely them desiring to go back to the old covenant sacrifices, instead of continuing on with Christ. The book was written to the 'hebrews', and there is much teaching about the New Covenant in Christ versus the old covenant in the book.

Hebrews 10
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[l] who is coming will come and will not [m]tarry.
38 Now the[n] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to [o]perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
 
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TheBibleIsTruth

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Hebrews 10:29, is about false brethren in a church, certainly not the attributes of a believer!
Christ says He loses not a single believer that God has given to Him, entrusted to Christ. Not a single one, and all of them Christ raises up on the last day.

And those false believers, this is purely them desiring to go back to the old covenant sacrifices, instead of continuing on with Christ. The book was written to the 'hebrews', and there is much teaching about the New Covenant in Christ versus the old covenant in the book.

Hebrews 10
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He[l] who is coming will come and will not [m]tarry.
38 Now the[n] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to [o]perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

quote the context:

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (26-30)

If "sanctified" or "His people" are used by Paul, or any other NT writer, for unbelievers, then please post this here.
 
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sdowney717

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quote the context:

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (26-30)

If "sanctified" or "His people" are used by Paul, or any other NT writer, for unbelievers, then please post this here.
I have posted plenty of verses that tell you believers have eternal everlasting life and do not come under condemnation, you just do not believe what the scripture says. You keep dredging up scriptures you think points to possible eternal damnation for current believers in Christ. Sorry but they are frauds, hypocrites fakes, pretenders, not born of God, If they depart the faith in unbelief...What kind of born of God believer would consider the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified an unholy thing? Not a single one would.
The book of Hebrews is written to the Jews who are very familiar with the OC, and not very familiar with the NC, it is pointing to the superiority of the NC over the OC, and if you disregard the NC and fall back on the OC, your in serious trouble, which many JEWS refused to believe in Christ. The OC was destroyed, passed away when Christ began the NC in His blood, there is no more OC anymore. There was no covenant at all if they do not embrace the New Covenant in Christ, just certain looking forward to destruction for them.

John 5

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
 
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