State of Israel

Grip Docility said:

For Christians, it’s not.

But for Jews and Islam (Jacob and Ishmael) it is.

You’re side stepping the point I’m validly making by focusing on the Christian Covenant.

There’s more in scripture about everything than just Christianity.

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You're misunderstanding The Gospel connection to God's Promises to Abraham, which were then passed on to the seed that believed. Was that all Israel? No, as one can easily see per OT history not all of Israel believed as Abraham did, even as it still is with the majority of Jews today. If they remain in unbelief, like Paul said, they will be cut off.

So blood lineage will not save anyone, including one born of Israel. Each soul MUST believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, God's Promised Savior. Only then can each soul be given eternal life. There is no difference in that between Jew or Gentile. By Faith only, not by blood.

Just that alone strikes out ANY argument in favor of salvation by blood.

Christians aren’t the Beast.

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That statement doesn't make sense.

Davy said:

You're misunderstanding The Gospel connection to God's Promises to Abraham, which were then passed on to the seed that believed. Was that all Israel? No, as one can easily see per OT history not all of Israel believed as Abraham did, even as it still is with the majority of Jews today. If they remain in unbelief, like Paul said, they will be cut off.

So blood lineage will not save anyone, including one born of Israel. Each soul MUST believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, God's Promised Savior. Only then can each soul be given eternal life. There is no difference in that between Jew or Gentile. By Faith only, not by blood.

Just that alone strikes out ANY argument in favor of salvation by blood.

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There is more than salvation involved , there is the remainder of bible prophecy to be fulfilled and it requires more than those who believe in Jesus the Christ to fulfill those prophecies -but consider that Jesus came directly to Israeli people , Gentiles were not included , consider that if Israel had accepted Jesus as Messiah when he came , then Gentiles nor Israel could be saved because it requires the blood of the messiah to be spilled to pay the debt of sin ,
We have the advantage of having all biblical record in one book that took thousands of years to write - the people of the OT and NT did not have the privilege , it be easy for people today to play arm chair quarterback when it will not change history , as a result all manner of interpretations are developed which then even creates denominational teachings
If it were not for Abraham , Issac and Jacob there would be no one to trace the scriptures of David and the promises that Jesus would be of the bloodline of King David
Christians today want so badly to forget about the history and re-write according to what they think is relevant - not what the Holy Spirit inspired writings have to say

seventysevens said:

There is more than salvation involved , there is the remainder of bible prophecy to be fulfilled and it requires more than those who believe in Jesus the Christ to fulfill those prophecies -but consider that Jesus came directly to Israeli people , Gentiles were not included , consider that if Israel had accepted Jesus as Messiah when he came , then Gentiles nor Israel could be saved because it requires the blood of the messiah to be spilled to pay the debt of sin ,
We have the advantage of having all biblical record in one book that took thousands of years to write - the people of the OT and NT did not have the privilege , it be easy for people today to play arm chair quarterback when it will not change history , as a result all manner of interpretations are developed which then even creates denominational teachings
If it were not for Abraham , Issac and Jacob there would be no one to trace the scriptures of David and the promises that Jesus would be of the bloodline of King David
Christians today want so badly to forget about the history and re-write according to what they think is relevant - not what the Holy Spirit inspired writings have to say

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Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

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BABerean2 said:

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to

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Again you show you just don't have a clue

seventysevens said:

Again you show you just don't have a clue

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On the road to Emmaus the risen Savior said the whole Old Testament is about Him in Luke 24:25-27.
Those that don't have a clue think otherwise...

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BABerean2 said:

On the road to Emmaus the risen Savior said the whole Old Testament is about Him in Luke 24:25-27.
Those that don't have a clue think otherwise...

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Honestly, we have opposing perspectives on a non essential for salvation doctrine.

“This isn’t the end of the world.”

I Love you, Brother in Him and appreciate the time you’ve invested into sharing your perspective and reading mine.

Grip Docility said:

Israel is Israel! How in the world do the passages that make it clear that God will restore Israel, slip by?

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Israel is not Israel, as you say.

Romans 9:6
For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

LastSeven said:

Israel is not Israel, as you say.

Romans 9:6
For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

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Ahhh, and yet Romans 9-11 bring that statement to deeper light.

All Love to you, Brother in Him.

Can you be more specific please.

Inkfingers said:

Does it mean anything, End Times related, that the modern State of Israel was created by the UN (a global empire resting on many waters/people) through Resolution 181, and that the UN claim ownership of Jerusalem?

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I think that Jesus was aware of the future situation, when he said that Jerusalem would be trampled by the Gentiles until the age of the Gentiles was closed. That must mean 1967 when the Jews took control of Jerusalem.
Even if the Jews are predominantly European converts to Judaism - they are still not Gentiles. Apparently the convert theory isn't that sound anyway. To me, it seems to be the fulfillment of prophesy - the establishment of the state of Israel - despite the critics saying that it was founded by the British (and not directly by God).
What else could Jesus have meant? If Jesus was correct, then the age of the Gentiles ended in 1967 - that would explain the drastic decline in church attendance since the 60's across the world - not just in the UK/Europe, but in South Korea, Canada etc - and why people in the UK are no longer interested in religion.
It also explains why there has been a dramatic growth in Messianic Judaism since the 60's - as Jesus said that he would not return, until those in Jerusalem said - 'blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD'.
And Jesus said to watch the fig tree - Israel - and watch for leaves to be produced - happening in this age. That is why Jesus cursed the fig tree (the only time Jesus actually destroyed anything) - because the fig tree was not producing any fruit.

Inkfingers said:

I had not realised until now that Israel is at best reticent in allowing Messianic Jews to make Aliya....

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Diaspora-Affairs-Will-Israel-ever-accept-Messianic-Jews-518129

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There is a growth in Messianic Judaism within Israel itself. Apparently, there are over 1 million Messianics in the USA, all since the 60's.

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

I think that Jesus was aware of the future situation, when he said that Jerusalem would be trampled by the Gentiles until the age of the Gentiles was closed. That must mean 1967 when the Jews took control of Jerusalem.

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Based on the passage below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

I think that Jesus was aware of the future situation, when he said that Jerusalem would be trampled by the Gentiles until the age of the Gentiles was closed. That must mean 1967 when the Jews took control of Jerusalem.
Even if the Jews are predominantly European converts to Judaism - they are still not Gentiles. Apparently the convert theory isn't that sound anyway. To me, it seems to be the fulfillment of prophesy - the establishment of the state of Israel - despite the critics saying that it was founded by the British (and not directly by God).
What else could Jesus have meant? If Jesus was correct, then the age of the Gentiles ended in 1967 - that would explain the drastic decline in church attendance since the 60's across the world - not just in the UK/Europe, but in South Korea, Canada etc - and why people in the UK are no longer interested in religion.
It also explains why there has been a dramatic growth in Messianic Judaism since the 60's - as Jesus said that he would not return, until those in Jerusalem said - 'blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD'.
And Jesus said to watch the fig tree - Israel - and watch for leaves to be produced - happening in this age. That is why Jesus cursed the fig tree (the only time Jesus actually destroyed anything) - because the fig tree was not producing any fruit.

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Similar to what BABerean2 stated above (but I believe slightly later), the time of the Gentiles ends at the start of the millennium. The Anti-Christ will be the Last King to rule over this Age then the Kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord after the victory at Armageddon - and Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

To put it in perspective the Anti-Christ invades Jerusalem and sets up the AOD at the mid-point of Daniels 70th Week. The AOD moment is only possible because the Anti-Christ has obtained total control of the World. His sitting in the temple and declaring himself God is the moment he has total control over the whole earth - that's why he's able to do this. At this point he has conquered all his enemies. And at this point his Reign, his Rule starts and continues 42 months or 3.5 years until the end of the Age - it is he who tramples Jerusalem under foot. The end of his reign signals the end of the "times of the Gentiles" .

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

This is the same time period of the Anti-Christ's reign.

The modern nation of Israel that we see today does not believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and does not constitute the Elect. Only a remnant within modern Israel (about 1%) could be called the Elect. The rest strongly denies Jesus is the messiah and will continue to deny Jesus is the messiah all the way up until the end. There is no mass conversion event of the Jews coming. If they don't believe now then they won't believe in the future, when Jesus came the first time the vast majority of them did not believe upon Him, even though they saw Him in the flesh, saw the miracles etc......

Imho the modern nation of Israel is not God's Israel - it was setup by the United Nations and imho is a secular nation that specifically does not believe upon Jesus Christ. So trying to fit it into prophecy is a mistake and the reason why there is so much confusion around bible prophecy. Once you remove the modern nation of Israel from bible prophecy and instead relate all those scriptures to the Millennial Israel instead - then bible prophecy makes sense.

I hope this helped someone. God Bless.

bjdea1 said:

To put it in perspective the Anti-Christ invades Jerusalem and sets up the AOD at the mid-point of Daniels 70th Week.

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Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

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To be part of the same religious faith, and have totally different beliefs on all of that...

the time of the Gentiles ends at the start of the millennium. The Anti-Christ will be the Last King to rule over this Age then the Kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord after the victory at Armageddon - and Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

I don't believe in a 1000 year rule of Jesus from Jerusalem.. this is called chiliasm -

1. the doctrine of Christ's expected return to reign on earth for 1000 years; millennialism. - During the first centuries after Christ, various forms of chiliasm (millennialism) were to be found in the Church, both East and West. It was a decidedly majority view at that time, as admitted by Eusebius, himself an opponent of the doctrine.

- don't believe in Armageddon or a future antichrist.

To put it in perspective the Anti-Christ invades Jerusalem and sets up the AOD at the mid-point of Daniels 70th Week. The AOD moment is only possible because the Anti-Christ has obtained total control of the World. His sitting in the temple and declaring himself God is the moment he has total control over the whole earth - that's why he's able to do this. At this point he has conquered all his enemies. And at this point his Reign, his Rule starts and continues 42 months or 3.5 years until the end of the Age - it is he who tramples Jerusalem under foot. The end of his reign signals the end of the "times of the Gentiles" .

Daniel's 70th week was the time of Jesus, after his baptism, until the stoning of Steven - lasted 7 years, and then the Jews rejected Christ, and the gospel went out to the Gentiles. All of the above is from the futurist/dispensational camp. The AOD was Titus and the Roman army.

The modern nation of Israel that we see today does not believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and does not constitute the Elect. Only a remnant within modern Israel (about 1%) could be called the Elect. The rest strongly denies Jesus is the messiah and will continue to deny Jesus is the messiah all the way up until the end. There is no mass conversion event of the Jews coming. If they don't believe now then they won't believe in the future, when Jesus came the first time the vast majority of them did not believe upon Him, even though they saw Him in the flesh, saw the miracles etc..

The Jews of Israel have to accept Christ in order for Jesus' prophesies to come true - he said that he would not return, until those in Jerusalem said 'blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord'. Also, Jesus said to watch the fig tree (Israel) and all the trees (the Gentile nations) - watch for the production of leaves - that means that leaves start to be produced - doesn't mean there must be mature fruit, at the return of Christ - same goes for the Gentiles - Iran, China etc.

the modern nation of Israel is not God's Israel - it was setup by the United Nations and is a secular nation that specifically does not believe upon Jesus Christ. So trying to fit it into prophecy is a mistake and the reason why there is so much confusion around bible prophecy. Once you remove the modern nation of Israel from bible prophecy and instead relate all those scriptures to the Millennial Israel instead - then bible prophecy makes sense.

Israel is the fulfillment of prophesy, and the Jews of Israel are a big part of the last-days - doesn't matter that the British created Israel in Palestine (someone had to do it). There is no millennial Israel and no millennium - when Jesus returns - game over - the end of the world and the start of the new heaven and earth, as prophesied by Isaiah.

BABerean2 said:

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years, before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.
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Daniel 9: 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

Here we are told that AFTER the 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off. It doesn't say after the 62 weeks plus 3.5 weeks, it says the Messiah will be cut off after the 62 weeks. I consider the simplest and most logical reading of this verse is telling us the messiah will be cut off at the conclusion of the 62 weeks. This isn't what your video says and therefore I disagree with your video on that point.

Daniel 9: 26 continued .......... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Is this "prince" Jesus Christ? No it's a different prince. How do we know this? Because the previous antecedent was for "Messiah the Prince", notice the Uppercase P. This new prince is lowercase prince and is described with "people of the prince". Now we have a new possible antecedent appear. Also notice it says unto the end of the war. Imho this must be talking about the 70AD Roman war in which the city and the sanctuary were indeed destroyed. So it appears we have moved on from the end of the 62nd week to a further time in the future now, at least up to the 70AD time period. So why would Daniel 9:27 jump back down to a time before Christ's death again?

Daniel 9: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Here we finally see mention of the 70th week and I believe this verse is talking about a future event and the prince being referred to is similar to the one previously described as "people of the prince that shall come". This week appears separately from the other weeks, it is mentioned last and all the weeks seem to be mentioned in chronological order. So it seems clear to me that the 70th week comes AFTER the 62 weeks, and that the Messiah is cut off between them. So in other words the the Messiah is NOT cut off during the 70th week, but before it, at the end of the 62 weeks.

Here are some more thoughts. We know Jesus will not return until the man of sin is revealed first, and that revealing moment is the Abomination of Desolation, the image of the beast standing in the temple of God, and also the Anti-Christ himself sitting in the temple declaring himself God. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that if a future 3rd temple is in existence, as the bible seems to imply, then sacrifices and offerings would indeed be happening again in Israel. So I can see the possibility of Daniel 9: 27 indeed referring to future sacrifices and offerings being stopped by a future Anti-Christ. This would also be following the pattern of previous Anti-Christs who stopped sacrifices and offerings in history.

Anyway one thing is clear this section of scripture has got to be the most hotly contested.......

God Bless.

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

I don't believe in a 1000 year rule of Jesus from Jerusalem.. this is called chiliasm -
the doctrine of Christ's expected return to reign on earth for 1000 years; millennialism.

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According to scripture given by Jesus in Rev 20
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

After Jesus returns , satan is then cast into prison for 1000 years - during this same 1000 years Jesus is reigning with the saints while satan is in prison
This is what people have called Jesus millennial reign , ....if satan was not in prison for this period of time it would not be called that , But it in no way indicates that Jesus Reign is only 1000 years , as it never ends , it is merely a reference point to how long satan is in prison , The whole of the 1000 years there is still death , still people with mortal human bodies and sin still exists -

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

Israel is the fulfillment of prophesy, and the Jews of Israel are a big part of the last-days - doesn't matter that the British created Israel in Palestine (someone had to do it).

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True,
but there is the 1000 years while satan is in prsion , as scripture states cleary that when satan is in prison ,he cannot decieve anyone during that time, but after the 1000 years is over satan is released from prison and for a "short time" he is allowed to decieve people again - a final purging of people who do not accept Jesus as LORD , they had the opportunity to love during the time when Jesus Himself is on earth to learn of what he did on the cross and that HE IS Almighty God , but just like some of the angels in the past that knew Him , chosen to follow satan and left their first estate of heaven , so shall some people during the Reign of Christ during the 1000 years satan is in prison will be decieved by satan and will follow satn when he is released from prison

Only after satan is released from prison and for a "short time" and after those that are decived by satan are destroyed by fire coming down from heaven , and sin is cast in to the lake of fire , and death is cast in to the lake of fire, and satan is cast in to the lake of fire , after all that has happened , then the new earth and new heavens appear as sin and death contaminate the earth , and since sin and death happen up to the point when satan/sin and death are cast into the lake of fire the earth is contaminated

After all that has happened - THEN is when the only people that are alive are the Family of God , and no more death , and no more sin and no more being deceived by satan will ever happen again

Hiscosmicgoldfish3 said:

don't believe in Armageddon or a future antichrist.

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You can believe what you want - but prepare yourself and your understanding because it will most definitely happen as scripture declares it will , and the future right now is laying out the red carpet for the future Man of Sin/ Man of Lawlessness -2Thess2 is being setup now - people that refuse to see this will be in for a shock when it is fulfilled , If you hold strongly to that belief you could be deceived into believing the Man of sin to be the true messiah , not a good thing

Davy said:

So blood lineage will not save anyone, including one born of Israel. Each soul MUST believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, God's Promised Savior. Only then can each soul be given eternal life. There is no difference in that between Jew or Gentile. By Faith only, not by blood.

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I don't thing anyone can disagree with the above, Davy.

On a separate issue, there is a generation of the blood descendants of Isaac and Jacob who will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.

In similitude to Israel's first century generation's unbelief in Jesus, and not inheriting the Kingdom of God - coming out of Egypt, that first generation of Israel did not inherit the promised land because of unbelief, but the second generation did.

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side note: there are people who were/are in unbelief - because they had not heard of Jesus and the gospel, or were not mentally capable of comprehending it. That's one type of unbelief.

Another type of unbelief is comprehension of the gospel message - but rejecting it and Jesus. If a person dies in that condition, they die in their sins. And cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.