Is it true that we are saved through faith alone?

sdowney717 · May 27, 2018

BrotherDave said:
Right, we are not justified by any type of work. We cannot contribute to our salvation in any way. 100% of the work needed was accomplished by Christ alone. He gets all the glory. ..also, Gal 2:16 has been mistranslated in most Bibles (KJV correct). The greek actually reads "...but by the faith of Jesus Christ... ". not "in" Jesus Christ...

It is a result of His faith we are saved.

Acts 3, mentions that faith comes through Him, so faith is God's gift to those He has saved.

16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know.
Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

sdowney717 · May 27, 2018

Ephesians 2

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We His workmanship, created as new creations in Christ and our salvation by faith has been gifted to us, none of any of that is of ourselves. And God does not save everybody, God only saves those He has a great love for, God does that by making us born of God, born of His Spirit so that we are then one spirit united with Him.
And that is His sovereign choice.

sdowney717 · May 27, 2018

Jesus described being born again as like the wind which blows wherever it wills.
And told us not to marvel that we must be born again.
God simply sovereignly does this according to His own purposes and will for us, and not according to our desires of the mind and flesh.

We are then become new creations, as like newborn babes in Christ. And it is to BABES that God reveals His truths at the beginning of one's new life in Christ.

Jesus was talking to adult men in Luke 10, but spiritually they were as babes, ones whom God had chosen to reveal to them Christ as His Son. And then Christ tells them no one knows His Father or Christ except that the Son wills this to be so. And God has given all things into Christ's hands, your knowing God and Christ was all of Him and none of you.

And in v23 and 24, you are blessed of God if you know the Father and the Son, and many people desired to see Christ and hear these things of God but did not see or experience them.

So then this is true as Romans 9 says,

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Luke 10
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

23 Then He turned to His disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; 24 for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it.”

Radagast · May 27, 2018

BrotherDave said:
It is a result of His faith we are saved.

Ummm, no.

Bible Highlighter · May 30, 2018

Butch5 said:
If by faith, you mean belief, the answer is no. One is not saved by simply believing. One must also be obedient.

I agree.

Bible Highlighter · May 30, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
We can lose it, should we willfully sin (Heb 10:26-27) and go back into the world like Demas / not obeying the gospel (2 Thess 1:8-9).

However, should we be restored (Gal. 6:1), seek forgiveness of wrong doing (Matt 18:15; 1 John 1:9) we would not lose our salvation. We are sinners and we will falter (Romans 3:23) but everyone in Christ has something people in the world do not Ephesians 1:3, spiritual blessings, we can be restored in Christ when we know our sin and seek that forgiveness.

A Christian will not willfully sin though. Should they willfully sin (Heb 10:26-27), they lost that salvation (Hebrews 6:4). Doesn't mean they are lost forever though, they can be restored Gal 6:1; Matt 18:15; 1 John 1:9.

In response to these two posts...

Try to understand this, no one can knock you out of Christ's hand, His flock, His body, except for you yourself. This is one of the things I was trying to say.

Like 1 John 2, IF YOU ABIDE aka OBEY, then of course you will not lose salvation. IF YOU DISOBEY, YOU LOSE salvation. Christians can and have been known to do this. We are not perfect (Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:6-10)

OSAS states that even if you disobey (and willfully), your still saved, and that's just not true (Heb 10:26-27; 2 Thess 1:8-9; Gal 5:4).

There is too much scripture for you to contend with on this. You are not fighting against my ideas sir, you are fighting against what scripture says. Your pitting bible verse against bible verse.

Just like what Paul did, I beg (beseech) you to look at this clearly.

These are simple questions for 1 Timothy 4:1

What are they departing from?

How do you depart from something if you are not in it to begin with?

If, as the “once saved, always saved” doctrine teaches, one cannot absolutely be lost after receiving salvation, why are there so many passages warning against apostasy?

Seems like it would be wasted effort.

Why would God repeatedly warn us against something that cannot happen?

Galatians 5:4
John 15:5-6
Jude 5
Hebrews 3:8-12
2 Timothy 4:3-4
Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:25-27

Well said.

Bible Highlighter · May 30, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Well,

I believe that we should both take a break for now. We are just going in circles since you keep throwing verses out and never answering the verses put before you. Usually in a dialog, questions asked are usually dealt with in replies. It's how dialog can be moved forward and how we can learn things. You are just sputtering out things here and there and never take on things I pose except the broad situation of OSAS issue. I've taken on your points, I wish you could have done the same.

With that said, in the future God willing, I would not mind at all discussing this issue again with you.

Before I leave this thread though, I just want to make a few of your accusations against me clear.

I am not oblivious to this, yes I know. The epistles though, directed at Christians, apply to those who are not in the world.

At the same time, they are evidence to people who are not in Christ yet. Don't be so naive in this, you know full well what I mean.

I've told you this at least twice that I know. Look at the words carefully....

Those who obey the gospel and continue in it "remain faithful unto death" (Rev 2:10), will receive eternal life. Those who just obey the gospel, for example (just throwing a number for your understanding) 10 years, then do not obey it anymore, will not receive eternal life according to scripture (2 Thess 1:8-9).

John 14:15 and John 15:14. Food for thought with these two verses in mind: The bible states that we are to look after widows and a list of other things, helping people and fellow Christians alike. Helping our own even (1 Tim 5:8). In light of this, look what happens when we do not do these things, Matthew 25:31-46. Makes James 2:14-26 fit right in there doesn't it?

Your accusation is completely wrong about me. You would be a horrible prosecutor.

I am merely doing my reasonable service sir Romans 12:1. And apparently you miss that whole entire section in Hebrews 11 about faith that required action. Faith is a verb sir, and you are not going to change that.

And my reasonable service according to scripture dictates that if I love Christ (John 14:15; John 15:14), I will obey what the gospel teaches (Romans 16:19; 2 Corinthians 2:9) and run my race with endurance (Hebrews 12:1), remaining faithful unto death (Revelations 2:10).

Part of my reasonable service is physically doing things as commanded in scripture (see parables including Matthew 25:31-46), and what James 1:22 quite literally states "DOERS". James 2:14-26 is SO straight forward, it amazes me how people stumble all over it. OSAS people like to use Ephesians 2:8-9 but they fail to see the very next verse in verse 10.

If one wishes to remain blind, thats their choice. A sad one, but their choice none the less.

Remaining faithfull lest you lose your salvation:

1 Corinthians 9:24-37
2 Timothy 4:7
Galatians 5:1-9

John 3:16 under spotlight:
Believeth - pisteuō - Verb - What is a verb? How do you obey a verb? What do you do?

And now I part with you for now and leave you with this that I am happy to mention and obey it as my reasonable service...

You do not think you need to do anything, I'm showing you scripture that tells you that you do need to do something, otherwise you are "dead"

James 2
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

This one verse is why everyone in this thread is responding to. This is the question asked by the OP'er basically in a nutshell.

So what does James say about the doctrine of OSAS?

James, please tell us....

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Wait a minute James! Are you telling me I have to do something other than just sitting there saying I believe?

Jas.1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

What James? Please elaborate.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

So your telling me that I must do something? And that's what separates me from those demons that believe also?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Oh your referring to Hebrews 11 huh?

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Yes James, we do see that.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Thank you for clarifying James. This was most enlightening.

Indeed. Very well put. I see Ephesians 2:8-9 as talking about Man Directed Works and or Works Alone Salvationism because verse 9 is talking about works that man would boast about and verse 8 talks about how salvation is a gift. I see Ephesians 2:10 as God directed works or works that the Lord does through us because they are the kind of works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. These works are the Lord helping us to obey His commands and so as to be fruitful or holy. I believe Paul is talking about "Initial Salvation" or "Ultimate Salvation" in Ephesians 2. For when we first came to Jesus (GOD) seeking His forgiveness and believing in His death and resurrection on our behalf for salvation, we were saved in that moment. If we as believers happen to stumble into sin on our road to recovery in overcoming sin in this life, we do not go out and do a good work to get forgiven but we go to Jesus and confess our sins to Him so as to be forgiven. This is why we are Initially and Ultimately saved by God's grace (Which is a gift). That gift is Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. But James is correct, too. James is correct by saying that we are justified by works and not by faith alone in James 2:24. So after we are saved by God's grace, I believe we are also saved by the Lord's work done through us. He has to do so. Gifts come with responsibilities. For we have to abide in the Son in order to have life. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12); And the way we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). For that person who says they know the Lord and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth (i.e. Jesus) is not in them (1 John 2:4).

So we are saved by God's grace and by our obedience to God. For no believer who lives out his faith can trust in God's grace and disobey God and be saved.

Even OSAS Proponents will admit that there is a certain level of holiness that is required to define who is a true believer and who is not a true believer. Many (and not all OSAS believers) will say that a believer cannot murder and rape innocent people and still claim to be a believer in Jesus Christ. So they are saying they are saved by holiness, but they will not really admit to that truth.

Anyways, thank you for defending the faith;
May God bless you greatly this fine day.

Bible Highlighter · May 30, 2018

BrotherDave said:
I agree OSAS is used by many as a license to sin...Of course if we are truly saved we do not approve of sin. It is abhorrent to us. IF someone keeps living in sin this indicates they were never really saved. They probably believe in a works gospel where they went through all the motions and said all the right things and that resulted in them being saved and all is good from that point on....someone truly saved by God should feel terrible when they give in to the desires of the flesh (recall David's reaction when he sinned)

So holiness and or obedience is required as a part of the salvation process.

Acts2:38 · May 31, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Indeed. Very well put. I see Ephesians 2:8-9 as talking about Man Directed Works and or Works Alone Salvationism because verse 9 is talking about works that man would boast about and verse 8 talks about how salvation is a gift. I see Ephesians 2:10 as God directed works or works that the Lord does through us because they are the kind of works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. These works are the Lord helping us to obey His commands and so as to be fruitful or holy. I believe Paul is talking about "Initial Salvation" or "Ultimate Salvation" in Ephesians 2. For when we first came to Jesus (GOD) seeking His forgiveness and believing in His death and resurrection on our behalf for salvation, we were saved in that moment. If we as believers happen to stumble into sin on our road to recovery in overcoming sin in this life, we do not go out and do a good work to get forgiven but we go to Jesus and confess our sins to Him so as to be forgiven. This is why we are Initially and Ultimately saved by God's grace (Which is a gift). That gift is Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. But James is correct, too. James is correct by saying that we are justified by works and not by faith alone in James 2:24. So after we are saved by God's grace, I believe we are also saved by the Lord's work done through us. He has to do so. Gifts come with responsibilities. For we have to abide in the Son in order to have life. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12); And the way we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). For that person who says they know the Lord and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth (i.e. Jesus) is not in them (1 John 2:4).

So we are saved by God's grace and by our obedience to God. For no believer who lives out his faith can trust in God's grace and disobey God and be saved.

Even OSAS Proponents will admit that there is a certain level of holiness that is required to define who is a true believer and who is not a true believer. Many (and not all OSAS believers) will say that a believer cannot murder and rape innocent people and still claim to be a believer in Jesus Christ. So they are saying they are saved by holiness, but they will not really admit to that truth.

Anyways, thank you for defending the faith;
May God bless you greatly this fine day.

Thank you for your kind words.

Well put post to you as well.

We have to do our "reasonable service" Romans 12:1-2.

Bible Highlighter · May 31, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Thank you for your kind words.

Well put post to you as well.

We have to do our "reasonable service" Romans 12:1-2.

God bless you, brother.

Doulos 7 · Jul 13, 2018

Alison Peebles said:
As Christians are we really saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone? If that's really true, then why do we have to repent for our sins? And doesn't the scripture in the Book of Revelation about unbelievers,abominable,liars,murders,idolaters and those who commit sexual sins not inheriting the Kingdom of God contradict with the we are saved through faith in Christ alone theory?

James 2:24
1 Peter 3:21

Dan the deacon · Jul 13, 2018

Inkfingers said:
That's just letting people know that those who practice those things have no faith and are not saved.

So by your post I take it you think you don't do such things. Get real.

Ron Gurley · Jul 16, 2018

Ephesians 2: 4-5,8-10
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 MADE US ALIVE with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
—it is by grace (unmerited Love/Mercy/favor) you have been saved.
8 For by GRACE (Love/Mercy) you have been SAVED through FAITH; (/BELIEF)
and that (FAITH/BELIEF) not of yourselves,
it is the (spiritual) GIFT of God;
9 NOT as a result of WORKS, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

John 1:12,14 (NIV)
Yet to all who received him,
to those who believed in his name,
he gave the right to become "children of God"...(SAVED!)The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, (Jesus)
who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Mark 1 (All NASB)....Jesus Preaches in Galilee
14 Now after John (the Baptizer) had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the "gospel of God", 15 and saying,
“The time (prophecy) is fulfilled, and the "kingdom of God" (Jesus) is at hand;
repent (turn to God) and believe in the "gospel (of God).”
GOOD NEWS! Jesus the Divine Messiah has come down from heaven to earth to save Man!

Acts 2:21
‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Acts 16:31[ The Jailer Converted ] They said,
“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord,
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be (CERTAIN to be!) saved;

John 5:24 (all NASB)...(Jesus

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal (spiritual) life,
and does not come into judgment, but "has passed" out of death into life.(NOW!)

BELIEVE unto the SALVATION EVENT
...THEN...
FOLLOW through the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS

Ron Gurley · Jul 16, 2018

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/salvation-by-faith-alone.8031954/

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...d-by-jesus-completed-and-irrevocable.8052980/

EmSw · Jul 16, 2018

Ron Gurley said:
Ephesians 2: 4-5,8-10
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 MADE US ALIVE with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
—it is by grace (unmerited Love/Mercy/favor) you have been saved.
8 For by GRACE (Love/Mercy) you have been SAVED through FAITH; (/BELIEF)
and that (FAITH/BELIEF) not of yourselves,
it is the (spiritual) GIFT of God;
9 NOT as a result of WORKS, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

John 1:12,14 (NIV)
Yet to all who received him,
to those who believed in his name,
he gave the right to become "children of God"...(SAVED!)The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, (Jesus)
who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Mark 1 (All NASB)....Jesus Preaches in Galilee
14 Now after John (the Baptizer) had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the "gospel of God", 15 and saying,
“The time (prophecy) is fulfilled, and the "kingdom of God" (Jesus) is at hand;
repent (turn to God) and believe in the "gospel (of God).”
GOOD NEWS! Jesus the Divine Messiah has come down from heaven to earth to save Man!

Acts 2:21
‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Acts 16:31[ The Jailer Converted ] They said,
“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord,
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be (CERTAIN to be!) saved;

John 5:24 (all NASB)...(Jesus"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal (spiritual) life,
and does not come into judgment, but "has passed" out of death into life.(NOW!)

BELIEVE unto the SALVATION EVENT
...THEN...
FOLLOW through the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS

Is there grace in the 10 commandments?

rturner76 · Jul 30, 2018

People that say faith ALONE,like absolutely nothing else is required are really fooling themselves. You describe this process of Christ saving you and then sin starts to become abhorrent to you and you become sanctified or something like that. Guess what......You just described the fact that you became obedient and followed God's commandments. YES Christ's sacrifice saves your soul but it is not total unconditional salvation. Now that you have been given this givf you must keep it by obeying God's commandments and repent when you don't.Jesus Christ says it over and over and over n the Bible that you must obey. Yes, he gives you the strength but you use that strength to do what? Obey! If you don't you might as well be an unbeliever.

Ron Gurley · Jul 31, 2018

Trust and Obey
The United Methodist Hymnal Number 467
Text: John H. Sammis, 1846-1919
Music: Daniel B. Towner, 1850-1919
Tune: ---, Meter: 669 D with Refrain
1. When we walk with the Lord
in the light of his word,
what a glory he sheds on our way!
While we do his good will,
he abides with us still,
and with all who will trust and obey.
Refrain:
Trust and obey, for there's no other way
to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

2. Not a burden we bear,
not a sorrow we share,
but our toil he doth richly repay;
not a grief or a loss,
not a frown or a cross,
but is blest if we trust and obey.
(Refrain)

3. But we never can prove
the delights of his love
until all on the altar we lay;
for the favor he shows,
for the joy he bestows,
are for them who will trust and obey.
(Refrain)

4. Then in fellowship sweet
we will sit at his feet,
or we'll walk by his side in the way;
what he says we will do,
where he sends we will go;
never fear, only trust and obey.
(Refrain)

Ron Gurley · Jul 31, 2018

God will not take back His gift of salvation.
Once changed, Always Changed.
John 3 explained in Ephesians 2

Chinchilla · Jul 31, 2018

rturner76 said:
People that say faith ALONE,like absolutely nothing else is required are really fooling themselves. You describe this process of Christ saving you and then sin starts to become abhorrent to you and you become sanctified or something like that. Guess what......You just described the fact that you became obedient and followed God's commandments. YES Christ's sacrifice saves your soul but it is not total unconditional salvation. Now that you have been given this givf you must keep it by obeying God's commandments and repent when you don't.Jesus Christ says it over and over and over n the Bible that you must obey. Yes, he gives you the strength but you use that strength to do what? Obey! If you don't you might as well be an unbeliever.

It is unconditional that's why Christ died for ungodly .

gift
ɡɪft/
noun
noun: gift; plural noun: gifts
1.
a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.
"wedding gifts"

Ephesians 2:8-9
Galatians 2:16

If you think that you are better than somebody else just because you do good works then you are simply boasting about it as we see in Ephesians , God clearly said he is giving us a gift , why do you try to pay for it then ?
It can't be a gift if you pay for it .

Bible Highlighter · Aug 3, 2018

Ron Gurley said:
God will not take back His gift of salvation.
Once changed, Always Changed.
John 3 explained in Ephesians 2

I don’t see God taking away our free will after we are born again spiritually. Yes, we a new heart with new desires, but this is not at the expense of our free will choices. These choices would include following the Lord or not following the Lord. For if God took away our free will to choose God or not, then when not do that with everyone?

Is it true that we are saved through faith alone?

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