Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Some have tried to say that this is a conditional promise. Any reading of this verse shows that is unconditional.
Because God is saying we should do 2 things because He will never leave us or forsake us.

Then they point to these 2 Scriptures.
2 Chronicles 15:1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:
15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

1 Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

I do not believe these Scriptures are talking about salvation. Let me show you why.

1 Chronicles 28:20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the LORD God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the LORD.

David tells his son in 28:9 that it was up to Solomon to seek Him and not forsake Him otherwise he would be forsaken. Later in verse 20 David tells him that God will not forsake him until the work was done.
In other words, the work was all important and God would keep His promise.

This sounds like Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.

Then we have God's promise to Jacob.
Genesis 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

Again a promise from God not to leave Jacob until God did His work.
Completely independent of what Jacob did. Which is a good thing because Jacob did a lot of things wrong.

Then we have the promise to Joshua,, (a type of Christ).
Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
31:7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.
31:8 And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

Joshua 1:5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

This was an unconditional promise to Joshua, because Joshua didn't finish the job, yet God did not forsake him.

Then we have this statement by Ezra.
Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.

Event though the Jews were bondmen to the nations around them, God did not forsake them.

Then we have David saying
Psalms 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
37:26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

But we have Solomon saying this:
Proverbs 16:17 The highway of the upright is to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.

David says God preserves us forever. Solomon says we preserve our soul.
How to reconcile 2 opposing statements?
We stay away from evil, and thereby we preserve our soul.
God preserves our spirits forever.

You forgot Jeremiah 23:33, And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

Therefore it is not impossible that the Lord would forsake a man.

In order to have the promise of Hebrews 13:5, you must be certain that the Lord has spoken it directly to you, and that He has not spoken the other thing to you.

You can do this by turning away from sin and bearing fruits worthy of repentance. You can have the assurance of eternal security if you know that you are abiding in Him and also have the desire to abide in Him for ever. Ask, and it will be given you.

justbyfaith said:

The issue of whether someone can still be saved after falling away has been hashed out in the following thread:

Those who fall away are still saved?

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And thoroughly refuted. Because Jesus gave no conditions to those He gives eternal life for not perishing.

So, any one who claims someone who has been given eternal life CAN perish is lying, because Jesus IS the truth and He said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

How come some people seem unable to discern the extreme difference between CAN and SHALL NEVER?

Important to see: Look up "WILL BE SAVED" as written in YAHWEH'S WORD.

justbyfaith said:

You forgot Jeremiah 23:33, And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

Therefore it is not impossible that the Lord would forsake a man.

In order to have the promise of Hebrews 13:5, you must be certain that the Lord has spoken it directly to you, and that He has not spoken the other thing to you.

You can do this by turning away from sin and bearing fruits worthy of repentance. You can have the assurance of eternal security if you know that you are abiding in Him and also have the desire to abide in Him for ever. Ask, and it will be given you.

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you really should look at Jeremiah 23:33 in context. God was not saying this to His people, but to the false prophets who wanted a word of comfort despite there false prophecies.

justbyfaith said:

@FreeGrace2 has misrepresented me by saying that I don't believe what Jesus said. I do. And I do believe in eternal security, for the SAINT, not the sinner.

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And here's the rub. Paul said that "all are under sin, both Jew and Gentile", in Rom 3:9, and "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" in Rom 3:23.

Therefore, all believers are sinners. And saved by grace.

And given the free gift of eternal life.

Therefore, those who have been given this gift shall never perish. No conditions.

John 10:28 has as its companion verses 1 John 2:17 and 1 John 3:6--

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

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Every verse in the Bible is a "companion" verse of every other verse. All the verses in the Bible agree with each other. And since John 10:28 is a very clear statement of eternal security for those who have received the gift of eternal life, there are NO verses that teach loss of salvation for any reason. Because there are no conditions to meet once eternal life is given.

The first of the verses in this series speaks to us of what eternal security really and truly is--that we will abide in Jesus for ever if we are doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving our own selves.

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Sad. jbf seems unable to grasp that what he calls "eternal security" is really just "conditional security" by that little conditional word "if" in his statement.

So, he really doesn't believe that all recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

In his world, those recipients who fail in the faith, fall away from the faith, SHALL PERISH.

Which is directly against what Jesus said.

And he doesn't realize that.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Important to see: Look up "WILL BE SAVED" as written in YAHWEH'S WORD.

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Also important to look up in God's Word is "has eternal life" in John 5:24 and 6:47. Which is on the basis of believing in Christ.

FreeGrace2 said:

And thoroughly refuted. Because Jesus gave no conditions to those He gives eternal life for not perishing.

So, any one who claims someone who has been given eternal life CAN perish is lying, because Jesus IS the truth and He said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

How come some people seem unable to discern the extreme difference between CAN and SHALL NEVER?

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It is not refuted. If you are going to refute it, you need to go and refute everything that has been said about it in THAT THREAD.

justbyfaith said: ↑
You forgot Jeremiah 23:33, And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

Therefore it is not impossible that the Lord would forsake a man.

In order to have the promise of Hebrews 13:5, you must be certain that the Lord has spoken it directly to you, and that He has not spoken the other thing to you.

You can do this by turning away from sin and bearing fruits worthy of repentance. You can have the assurance of eternal security if you know that you are abiding in Him and also have the desire to abide in Him for ever. Ask, and it will be given you.
@Doug Melven: you really should look at Jeremiah 23:33 in context. God was not saying this to His people, but to the false prophets who wanted a word of comfort despite there false prophecies.

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No, there is no need to look at any other context than what is in the verse itself: for in the verse itself it is clear that Jeremiah is to say this word to this people. As I have emphasized in the above quote of me and you.

justbyfaith:
@FreeGrace2 has misrepresented me by saying that I don't believe what Jesus said. I do. And I do believe in eternal security, for the SAINT, not the sinner.
@FreeGrace2: And here's the rub. Paul said that "all are under sin, both Jew and Gentile", in Rom 3:9, and "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" in Rom 3:23.

Therefore, all believers are sinners. And saved by grace.

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We are all sinners. That does not mean that we sin. A man who has been a clean and sober alcoholic for forty-five years still calls himself an alcoholic, but his life is not one of drinking alcohol. Therefore I can call myself a sinner, but my life does not have to be one of committing sin.

Also, Romans 3:9 is interpreted by 1 Corinthians 10:32. There are three categories of people in scripture: Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God. The church of God is not mentioned as being under sin in Romans 3:9. And as for Romans 3:23, it is clear to me that we all come short of the glory of God in that we have sinned; not necessarily in that we do sin.

@FreeGrace2: And given the free gift of eternal life.

Therefore, those who have been given this gift shall never perish. No conditions.

justbyfaith: John 10:28 has as its companion verses 1 John 2:17 and 1 John 3:6--

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
@FreeGrace2:
Every verse in the Bible is a "companion" verse of every other verse. All the verses in the Bible agree with each other. And since John 10:28 is a very clear statement of eternal security for those who have received the gift of eternal life, there are NO verses that teach loss of salvation for any reason. Because there are no conditions to meet once eternal life is given.

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That is what you say. Now back it up with scripture.

justbyfaith: The first of the verses in this series speaks to us of what eternal security really and truly is--that we will abide in Jesus for ever if we are doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving our own selves.
@FreeGrace2: Sad. jbf seems unable to grasp that what he calls "eternal security" is really just "conditional security" by that little conditional word "if" in his statement.

So, he really doesn't believe that all recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

In his world, those recipients who fail in the faith, fall away from the faith, SHALL PERISH.

Which is directly against what Jesus said.

And he doesn't realize that.

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So, if the "if" is a scriptural "if" then I guess you would have to concede that from your perspective it is indeed "conditional security." From my perspective it isn't so. For God has worked in me both to will and to do according to His good pleasure. I desire to obey God, and that will never change; because I am born again. For the person who is not born again, whose desire has not been changed to that of holiness, from their perspective they see it as conditional; because they do not WANT to be holy. But for those who want to be holy, being born again, it is not conditional on anything that God has not already fulfilled in their lives!

FreeGrace2 said:

Also important to look up in God's Word is "has eternal life" in John 5:24 and 6:47. Which is on the basis of believing in Christ.

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Those who fall away are still saved?

In the above thread it becomes clear that the word "believe" can be referring to either mental assent or a heart faith. Just as if I translated the word "love" from English to Greek, I might come up with different Greek words based on the context given in English, so when we translate the singular word "believe" from Greek to English, there may be different definitions for the word "believe" based on the biblical context.

In John 5:25 and in John 6:47 it is speaking of a heart faith, as in Romans 10:10. While in Luke 8:13 it is speaking of an emotional experience or of a mental assent to the doctrines of the gospel, that does not translate into saving faith.

justbyfaith said:

No, there is no need to look at any other context than what is in the verse itself: for in the verse itself it is clear that Jeremiah is to say this word to this people. As I have emphasized in the above quote of me and you.

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Always look at the context of every verse. For if you take the text out of context, all you have left is a con.
Here is the context.
23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
23:28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.
23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
23:33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

Verses 25-26 are about these prophets speaking lies in God's name.
Verse 27 says what these lying prophets do.
Verse 30-31 says God is against these lying prophets.
Verse 32 says that these lying prophets will not be able to help the people.
Verse 33 Says what God's reply will be to those lying prophets who ask What is the burden of the LORD?
And God's reply is I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

This word is to the lying prophets or people or priest who want a word of comfort but have no desire to repent.
Always examine context.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1852:

[Re: 2 Pet. 2:20-22. Heb. 10:26-29]
And neither of these passages says that salvation can be given back, returned, or lost.

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They do, for Hebrews 10:27 is the same as Revelation 14:10-11.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1852:

In the same way, the result of being born of imperishable seed means the spiritual body will not perish.

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That depends on what you mean by the spiritual body.

When obedient Christians' bodies will be raised/resurrected into spiritual/heavenly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44-49), they will still be fleshly bodies, but no longer "natural", that is, no longer mortal, fleshly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44,53). Instead, they will be immortal fleshly bodies like Jesus Christ Himself was raised/resurrected into on the third day after His death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25), by the spiritual/heavenly power of God's Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11,23-25, Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:44).

Also, at both "the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:6) and the second resurrection (Revelation 20:5a), some will undergo "the resurrection of life" while others will undergo "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). For "the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:6), at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), before the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), will be of all those of all times who became Christians (1 Corinthians 15:21-23). And some of them will lose their salvation at the Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46). So their resurrection will be a "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29), a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8).

The second resurrection (Revelation 20:5a), at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), will involve all people of all times who never became Christians, and all those who became Christians during the Millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). At the Great White Throne Judgment, those Christians (of all times) who will lose their salvation, and so will have their names blotted out of the Book of Life (Revelation 3:5), will be cast into the everlasting suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone along with all non-Christians (Revelation 20:15,10, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:45-46).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1852:

How in the world can anyone claim that the result of being born of imperishable seed is to perish?

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Only with conditions (e.g. Luke 13:3).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1852:

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be with the believer forever. And since the Holy Spirit will not be spending any time in the lake of fire, this is another proof that no believer will spend any time there either.

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Note that the Holy Spirit could be the lake of fire, in the sense of Hebrews 12:29.

Also, He is everywhere (Psalms 139:7-8).

Also, even the presence of Jesus will be in the lake of fire (Revelation 14:10b), just as He could have been in Daniel 3:25.

FreeGrace2 said in post #1852:

Do you not understand that to believe in Christ requires a complete change of mind, which is what repentance is?

So Luke 13:3 doesn't help you in your claim.

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It does, because to believe in Christ does not take away free will (2 Peter 2:20-22).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1852:

God won't change His mind about the giving of His gifts. Once given, He will not take them back.

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His future giving of ultimate salvation will be conditional (Romans 2:6-8).

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FreeGrace2 said in post #1853:

No where in Scripture do we see anything about a supposed difference between initial and ultimate anything.

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We do.

For example, initial salvation is without works (Ephesians 2:8-9), while ultimate salvation requires works (James 2:24).

FreeGrace2 said in post #1853:

Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

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With conditions (e.g. Luke 13:3).

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FreeGrace2 said in post #1855:

What the believer does participate or partner with Christ in is works, or good deeds. Which goes back to John 15 and abiding in Him in order to bear fruit.

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John 15:2a refers to Christians, who are branches in the vine of Jesus Christ, wrongly employing their free will in such a way that they fail to produce good fruit, so that ultimately they are taken away from Jesus (John 15:2a), cut off from Him for their unrepentant laziness, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30).

Christians can also be ultimately cut off from Jesus Christ, cast away, and burned; they can ultimately lose their salvation, for not continuing to abide in Jesus (John 15:6), in the sense of committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 2:12b), or unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

Doug Melven said in post #1856:

Then God said in Isaiah that this New Covenant would be like that one. Not dependent on us doing anything.

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The New Covenant is conditional (Matthew 7:21).

Doug Melven said in post #1856:

God has promised to not take away the Covenant of peace from us.

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With conditions (e.g. 2 Timothy 2:12b).

Doug Melven said in post #1856:

We can't even give it back, as that would require God to take it from us.

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We can wrongly employ our free will to commit apostasy, to the ultimate loss of our salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8).

Doug Melven said in post #1856:

So your idea that our freewill can separate us from God's love has just been triply debunked.

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No, for it can (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Doug Melven said in post #1856:

You make the wrong assumption that God will reveal His knowledge of what He sees in you to you.

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He does (Revelation 3:19).

Doug Melven said in post #1856:

If He was to reveal what He learned from His search, then it would be up to you to figure out the best way to deal with it.

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Repentance (2 Corinthians 12:21).

Doug Melven said in post #1856:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

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Matthew 5:18 did not mean that heaven and earth had to pass away before the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments could be abolished, but that Jesus Christ had to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies regarding the Messiah's/the Christ's first coming (Luke 24:44-46; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53) before He could abolish the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (for both Jews and Gentiles, of all times) on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19).

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Doug Melven said in post #1861:

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

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With conditions (e.g. 2 Timothy 2:12b).

Doug Melven said in post #1861:

. . . Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.

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Philippians 1:6 does mean that God will complete the work which He has begun in Christians. But other passages show that He will do this only if they continue to cooperate with Him, work along with Him (1 Corinthians 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Colossians 1:29, Philippians 2:12, Philippians 3:12-14), and do not wrongly employ their free will to, for example, become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

Doug Melven said in post #1861:

[Ps.] 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

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With conditions (e.g. Hebrews 10:26-29).

Doug Melven said in post #1861:

Proverbs 16:17 The highway of the upright is to depart from evil: he that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.

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The latter half, like the first half, refers to a believer, and the keyword is "keepeth". Contrast 2 Peter. 2:20-22.

justbyfaith said:

It is not refuted. If you are going to refute it, you need to go and refute everything that has been said about it in THAT THREAD.

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It was refuted in that thread.

justbyfaith said:

We are all sinners. That does not mean that we sin.

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There is nothing in Scripture that indicates that human beings can cease from sin. We are commanded to not sin, BUT, we are also given 1 John 1:9 for when we do sin.

And the verse just before v.9 -
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

And, the verse immediately following v.9 -
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

A man who has been a clean and sober alcoholic for forty-five years still calls himself an alcoholic, but his life is not one of drinking alcohol. Therefore I can call myself a sinner, but my life does not have to be one of committing sin.

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If you are claiming that you are NOW without sin, you are described in 1 John 1:8.

Also, Romans 3:9 is interpreted by 1 Corinthians 10:32.

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Says who, other than your own opinion?

There are three categories of people in scripture: Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God.

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No, actually, there are 2 categories; saved and lost. Believers and unbelievers.

The church of God is not mentioned as being under sin in Romans 3:9.

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It's not mentioned because the church of God is made up of saved Jews and Gentiles.

And please don't take my word for anything. But please do believe the Scripture.

Gal 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

And as for Romans 3:23, it is clear to me that we all come short of the glory of God in that we have sinned; not necessarily in that we do sin.

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OK, back to 1 John 1:8.

That is what you say. Now back it up with scripture.

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Just did.

justbyfaith said:

Those who fall away are still saved?

In the above thread it becomes clear that the word "believe" can be referring to either mental assent or a heart faith.

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First, I'm not interested in what "threads" or "people" say about it.

Second, I am interested in what the Bible says. And it makes no distinction between mental assent vs heart faith.

In John 5:25 and in John 6:47 it is speaking of a heart faith, as in Romans 10:10.

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Opinion. No evidence to back up your opinion.

While in Luke 8:13 it is speaking of an emotional experience or of a mental assent to the doctrines of the gospel, that does not translate into saving faith.

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More opinion.

In fact, Jesus used the same word "believe" in the previous verse:
Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

By using the same word in the next verse means Jesus was telling us that those who believed for a while were saved when they believed.

Bible2+ said:

They do, for Hebrews 10:27 is the same as Revelation 14:10-11.

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Opinion. Prove it with substance, not just a claim.

His future giving of ultimate salvation will be conditional (Romans 2:6-8).

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Again, you've given no substance to your claim of "initial" vs "ultimate" anything.

Your opinions need evidence to be believed. Just the claim isn't evidence.

For example, initial salvation is without works (Ephesians 2:8-9), while ultimate salvation requires works (James 2:24).

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It is obvious that you are "seeing" things that aren't in Scripture. Maybe overactive imagination.

James 2:24 is about justification from the perspective of others. Here's a few verses that actually speak of the perspective of the Lord and others.

Human and Divine perspective

Romans 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

This is about the perspective of everyone.

Rom 14:18 - because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

This is about the perspective of both God and humans.

2 Cor 5:12 - We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart.

This is about the perspective of others.

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.

This is about perspective of the Lord and of man.

1 Tim 3:7 - He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

This is about perspective of outsiders.

1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

This is directly related to James 2:15-18.

1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

This is about perspective of outsiders. To “win the respect of outsiders” is to be justified in the eyes of outsiders.

Christians can also be ultimately cut off from Jesus Christ, cast away, and burned; they can ultimately lose their salvation

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This claim is in direct opposition to what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life; that they shall never perish.

How can anyone be so bold and careless?

for not continuing to abide in Jesus (John 15:6)

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Jesus said nothing about abiding for salvation, or for your imaginary "ultimate salvation" in that passage. In fact, the whole point was abiding in Him for bearing fruit, not getting or staying saved.

2 Peter 2:20-22
Folks, if you choose to rationalize your way around this scripture be my guest. But it will not change the truth of God's Word. Seek truth friends, and you will find it.

112358 said:

2 Peter 2:20-22
Folks, if you choose to rationalize your way around this scripture be my guest. But it will not change the truth of God's Word. Seek truth friends, and you will find it.

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Kinda like those who have been rationalizing their way around John 10:28?