B'midbar -- Shavuot-- Pentecost

Hm, interesting question. I don't believe that the law has been done away with, in the sense of the ten commandments, the Sabbath, and to a greater extent the Holy Days and Shemitah/Jubilee years and various other commandments that are too tedious to go through. So the Holy Spirit given on a day in which the ten commandments were given to me is an amplifying of the commandments. Christ came to 'fulfill' meaning fill to the full. There are the physical laws and then the spiritual laws which Christ brought with him: e.g; Lusting after another is as the sin of adultery. So the Holy Spirit being given on Pentecost, may be the spiritual laws that have been given, but with the added ability to keep them through God's spirit and strength and also to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Would be interested to hear other's input on this.

Ezekiel 36:27

Lulav said:

What do you think are the similarities of the first Shavuot and the one written about in the book of Acts?

Click to expand...

G-d's Doing, G-d's Plan,G-d's Schedule, not dependent on men, but for men, for G-d's Pleasure(His Own Original Desire and His Perfect Work Working out),

to show G-d's Wisdom to all those in the heavenlies for eternity !

yeshuaslavejeff said:

G-d's Doing, G-d's Plan,G-d's Schedule, not dependent on men, but for men, for G-d's Pleasure(His Own Original Desire and His Perfect Work Working out),

to show G-d's Wisdom to all those in the heavenlies for eternity !

Click to expand...

Does God strike you as a being who needs his ego stroked for eternity?

Steve Petersen said:

Does God strike you as a being who needs his ego stroked for eternity?

Click to expand...

That question strikes me as entirely inappropriate.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

That question strikes me as entirely inappropriate.

Click to expand...

Your post suggested that we are going to sit around forever telling God how wonderful He is, thus my question.

Only those who are saved and not judged guilty eternally are going to.

God is wonderful and we will praise him for all eternity but it's not like we're going to be bowed before him forever and never raise our heads. Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from now on even for ever."

If there is no end to his government then there will be more creations--we do have an entire universe to work with. God will give people tasks and let them build and create in his name and with righteousness, truth and justice. We're not going to be sitting around a campfire for all eternity singing Kumbaya. We'll have projects and we'll use our God-given talents and interests and contribute to that government. We're not going to slug through a 9-5 job dreading work every day. Lol. We will enjoy the labor of our hands and praise God and marvel at his universe and the talents and spaces he gives us to work with toward His will but contributing our own desires and flare and personality. It's in God's heart and man's heart to create.

Lulav said:

It is said it was a marriage, the giving of the Torah.

If this marriage took place in the wilderness, with the second marriage (of the Lamb) also be in a wilderness?

Click to expand...

Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Feast of tabernacles is the celebration of not only time in the wilderness but also the birth of Yeshua and His wedding date. ...

Lulav said:

It is said it was a marriage, the giving of the Torah.

If this marriage took place in the wilderness, with the second marriage (of the Lamb) also be in a wilderness?

Click to expand...

Lulav, in a sense, the church is in the wilderness now. We have not been given our promised land yet--that is the Kingdom of God. The Children of Israel were awaiting a physical allotment of land while they wandered in the wilderness, but the church is awaiting for the spiritual Kingdom of God. So technically Pentecost did happen during a type of spiritual wilderness, which we are still in and will remain in until Christ returns and sets up his government.

I treat Shavuot and Pentecost as two entirely different holy days. I don't conflate them.

Lulav said:

Can you elaborate?

They are the same date and the words are just Hebrew and Greek of the same day.

I would agree that Passover and 'Good Friday' are to totally different things but Shavuot?

Click to expand...

Yes they are the same dates but they celebrate different things. Shavuot celebrates the giving of the Torah to Israel and Pentecost celebrates the coming of the Holy Spirit to the Ekklesia. When I go to Synagogue for Shavuot, there is no mention of the Holy Spirit coming, and when I go to church for Pentecost, there is no mention of the giving of the Torah. I feel any conflation of the two seems rather forced.

Lulav said:

Can you elaborate?

They are the same date and the words are just Hebrew and Greek of the same day.

I would agree that Passover and 'Good Friday' are to totally different things but Shavuot?

Click to expand...

I was fairly certain that Pentecost and Shavout do no not always coincide on the same day.
Nor does pesach or easter.

I believe pesach is always observed during a full moon.
As for counting the omer.
I've read of a few discretions about when to begin the count.
And is not something I mean to bring to the discusion without the readers having knowledge of the ordinances of the heavens.

pesach is always observed on a full moon.

if so then there are a certain number of days to consider in counting the omer.
Should shavuot coincide with another full moon?

Adonai spoke to Moshe and Aharon in the land of Egypt; he said, 2 “You are to begin your calendar with this month; it will be the first month of the year for you. 3 Speak to all the assembly of Isra’el and say, ‘On the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb or kid for his family, one per household — 4 except that if the household is too small for a whole lamb or kid, then he and his next-door neighbor should share one, dividing it in proportion to the number of people eating it. 5 Your animal must be without defect, a male in its first year, and you may choose it from either the sheep or the goats.

checking some folds of time..
No work to be done?
so when does the omer count begin?

“‘This will be a day for you to remember and celebrate as a festival to Adonai; from generation to generation you are to celebrate it by a perpetual regulation.

15 “‘For seven days you are to eat matzah — on the first day remove the leaven from your houses. For whoever eats hametz [leavened bread] from the first to the seventh day is to be cut off from Isra’el. 16 On the first and seventh days, you are to have an assembly set aside for God. On these days no work is to be done, except what each must do to prepare his food; you may do only that. 17 You are to observe the festival of matzah, for on this very day I brought your divisions out of the land of Egypt. Therefore, you are to observe this day from generation to generation by a perpetual regulation. 18 From the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month until the evening of the twenty-first day, you are to eat matzah. 19 During those seven days, no leaven is to be found in your houses. Whoever eats food with hametz in it is to be cut off from the community of Isra’el — it doesn’t matter whether he is a foreigner or a citizen of the land. 20 Eat nothing with hametz in it. Wherever you live, eat matzah.’”

For six days you are to eat matzah; on the seventh day there is to be a festive assembly for Adonai your God; do not do any kind of work.

9 “You are to count seven weeks; you are to begin counting seven weeks from the time you first put your sickle to the standing grain.10 You are to observe the festival of Shavu‘ot [weeks] for Adonai your God with a voluntary offering, which you are to give in accordance with the degree to which Adonai your God has prospered you. 11 You are to rejoice in the presence of Adonai your God — you, your sons and daughters, your male and female slaves, the L’vi’im living in your towns, and the foreigners, orphans and widows living among you — in the place where Adonai your God will choose to have his name live. 12 Remember that you were a slave in Egypt; then you will keep and obey these laws.

(Maftir) 13 “You are to keep the festival of Sukkot for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing-floor and winepress. 14 Rejoice at your festival — you, your sons and daughters, your male and female slaves, the L’vi’im, and the foreigners, orphans and widows living among you. 15 Seven days you are to keep the festival for Adonai your God in the place Adonai your God will choose, because Adonai your God will bless you in all your crops and in all your work, so you are to be full of joy!

16 “Three times a year all your men are to appear in the presence of Adonai your God in the place which he will choose — at the festival of matzah, at the festival of Shavu‘ot and at the festival of Sukkot. They are not to show up before Adonai empty-handed, 17 but every man is to give what he can, in accordance with the blessing Adonai your God has given you.

Haftarah Re’eh: Yesha‘yahu (Isaiah) 54:11–55:5

B’rit Hadashah suggested readings for Parashah Re’eh: 1 Corinthians 5:9–13; 1 Yochanan (1 John) 4:1–

proposing a thought for everyone to consider..
Yeshua and the disciples observed pesach on the full moon.
After which Yeshua was tried and convicted with roman precept (law)[by majority vote of the ruling caste] to be scourged then crucified.
Then was resurrected in glory during the week of no work.

A week after pesach, Mary and the others visited the tomb finding it empty.
Then one week after Yeshua resurrected he showed himself to his beloved on yom shishli.
To which would give the beginning of the omer count and subsequently align shavout with a coiciding full moon.

[○][°]♢♢□□□[ ][♢]
Symbols without a key, till later.



My Hebrew Dictionary: Days of the Week




Blessed is the Name

Lulav said:

'In the wilderness' this weeks parsha.

Tomorrow is Shavu'ot, the fifty days from Passover (first fruits)

The wilderness was the place where the Torah was given.

Why was the Torah given here and not in the land of Israel?

The Torah was given on Shavu'ot, they gathered at the base of the mountain after three days of cleansing to be prepared.


This was the time when G-d himself was able to return to earth, the first time since the Garden of Eden, after giving them instructions on how to build a place for him to come down and visit.

The written form, 'THE WORD' was given then, 2,000 years ago the Word came in the flesh.

What do you think are the similarities of the first Shavuot and the one written about in the book of Acts?

Click to expand...

Hello lulav.
I appologize for any interuptions I've caused.

I would like to speak about the coverings of the Mishkan being changed.
It has come to my attention that there are few here in this forum that have been given a charity of fire. And fewer to teach properly.
The Mishkan is, was, and always remain as the Lord instructed.
And no firstborn denies this.
The only change of its design is offered by Yeshua.

Your differentiation is a good example of the divide that exists between certain segments of both Judaism and Christianity that have existed for nearly 2000 years. One would hope that Messianic Judaism would serve as a bridge between Shavuot and Pentecost. Messianic Judaism seems to put more emphasis on the giving of the Torah than to the indwelling/abiding presence of the Holy Spirit and the accompanying supernatural experiences in a born again Believer.

If an MJ member starts a thread about the Holy Spirit it doesn't seem to garner the interest of MJ members. Some Messianic Jews may even ridicule Sid Roth's "It's Supernatural' TV Program. Sid Roth's "Messianic Vision" is opening the eyes of thousands of Jews to the reality of Yeshua. Never-the-less Messianic Jews don't seem to put much significance on the supernatural Gifts of the indwelling presence of Ruach HaKodesh in a born again Believer near as much as they do on the supplemental laws that make up the legal part (halakhah) of the Talmud.