Sorry. One of the cons of being an Acts28:28 dispensationalist is that you have to type that long word over and over. An Ac28er is just an abbreviation used to avoid that. When I was on here a couple of years ago, we used A2D, A9D, and A28D, for the 3 basic types and it worked pretty well.What is Ac 28ers ?
What about the fulfillment of the dry bones prophecy? In Ezekiel 37.I noticed your signature. Since Israel does not exist today, in God's eyes, and since all prophecy involves Israel, no prophecy has been fulfilled since 70AD, with the destruction of the temple, about 1948 years ago. None will be fulfilled until the present Gentile period is over, in about 2063 or 2070.
I've been here quiet a while, including that period. I was unaware of that.Sorry. One of the cons of being an Acts28:28 dispensationalist is that you have to type that long word over and over. An Ac28er is just an abbreviation used to avoid that. When I was on here a couple of years ago, we used A2D, A9D, and A28D, for the 3 basic types and it worked pretty well.
What about the fulfillment of the dry bones prophecy? In Ezekiel 37.
When you say in God's eyes, I am not thinking you are speaking for God. Why don't you just say as you understand what is Israel?
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Are you saying that Ezekiel 37:18-24 have been fulfilled in 1948 ?What about the fulfillment of the dry bones prophecy? In Ezekiel 37.
I would say 37:18-22 has been fulfilled. Although I would not call the prime minister as king, but the point is they have one leader and one country again.Are you saying that Ezekiel 37:18-24 have been fulfilled in 1948 ?
Ezekiel 37:24
24 And my servant David shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in mine ordinances, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Israel is in the news everyday. The president just got through moving our embassy to Jerusalem.Surely you don't believe the dry bones prophecy has been fulfilled. You've been spending too much time in denominational churches.
In God's eyes because everything Paul ever said and did in scripture was 100% God-breathed. By Paul's pronouncement of Isa 6:9-10 for the 7th and last time in scripture, in Acts 28:25-27, Israel was totally blinded and, in vs 28, the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles. Indirect proof of this is there is no mention of Israel being active in any way in Paul's 7 books written after Acts. Those 7 books are all Gentile. In all of Acts, the church was Jewish. Overnight, after Acts, the church was 100% Gentile and any one with a logical mind has to wonder why Israel disappeared from the scene. This can only be explained by something dramatic happening in between. The only thing extremely dramatic that happened in between was in Ac 28:25-28, where Israel were first blinded as to truth and then Jesus Christ was taken from them. Also, no prophecy has been fulfilled. The modern nation of Israel was a Rothschild thing, not a God thing. When God actually does fulfill the prophecy of installing Israel in the land, everyone in the world will know it, big time.
I have more knowledge than you - but it be wasted on you as you think you know it all - you are funnyWhen you don't have enough knowledge to rebut something, make sure you ATTACK the Messenger. That always works!
I'm certainly not on a pedestal, but Acts 28:28 Dispensationalism is THE pinnacle of Bible understanding and its members make up the only group in the world that is approved unto God because it's the only group that believes God enough to strictly obey His orders in 2Tim 2:15 to RIGHTLY Divide His Word.
Do you obey right division? If so, what part of God's word do you divide?
EmbassyIsrael is in the news everyday. The president just got through moving our capital to Jerusalem.
BaB2, when the rapture takes place, do you think you will hear the voice of God - "Come up here", calling Christians up ?
On the NC thing, I really don't thoroughly understand your point. If you're assuming that all dispensationalists believe that the Gentiles will participate in the New Covenant or that all of us believe the NC is not for Gentiles, you're assuming too much. Ac 28ers certainly don't believe it's for Gentiles, because there is absolutely no scripture that says it is and a lot that says the NY belongs only to Israel. Also, no one seems to understand that the purpose of the NC is, through the Spirit, to put the law into the Israelite's inward parts so he is finally capable of obeying it, which he was never able to do under the old Covenant. After this Gentile period is over, in about 2063, Israel will have to keep the law, forever, and the only way that is possible is through the Holy Spirit and the New Covenant.
Hebrews was written to.....Duh....Hebrews. At least half of each of the other 6 books written by Paul during Acts were written to the Jews. Romans is about 1/2 written to the Jews. The other half of those 6 books were written to Gentiles, all of which were part of Israel because the were all grafted into Israel. The Acts period was entirely Israel. Therefore, nothing from the book of Acts has anything to do with us Gentiles, when it comes to what our calling, hope of our calling, and our rules and directions pertaining to those things. The reason is that the calling for the Jews and Gentiles in Acts was totally different than the calling for the Gentiles, as spelled out ONLY in Paul's post-Acts books. Why is that so difficult for you to absorb when it's as simple as falling off a log?Below we find the New Covenant specifically applied to the "church".
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
You must have not read Galatians 3:16-29, where Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.
Paul said the Law was "added" 430 year "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.
We also see below that the New Covenant is not like the Old Covenant.
Therefore your statement about Israel keeping the law through the New Covenant cannot be correct.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
We also see below that the New Covenant is now in effect.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
.
This whole thread about the rapture is moot because no one living today will be in the rapture. The church in Acts was all-Israel because all the saved Gentiles were grafted into Israel, the good olive tree. In Acts 28:28, the salvation of God was taken from Israel, who had had it for 2000 years, and was passed to the Gentiles, who have now had it for 1955 years. Israel, being punished for not accepting Christ, was set aside, along with everything that was Jewish - the Acts church, the rapture, the Gifts of the Spirit, you name it
The only books that apply directly to us Gentiles today, and tell us what our blessings are, what our calling and the hope of our calling is, and our rules and directions pertaining to these things, are Paul's 7 books written after Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In these 7 books, you will find that, unlike anyone else in the other 59 books of the Bible, we Gentiles have an opportunity to spend eternity in Heaven. The Acts church, at best, had a calling of the New Jerusalem, which is not Heaven. It's a city that comes down out of Heaven and docks on the New Earth.
In these after-Acts books, we have a different and earlier resurrection than the Jewish one in Acts, the rapture. It is called the appearing. In it, when Christ first makes His appearance far above all Heavens, we will instantly be there with Him. In other words, He stays in Heaven and we are resurrected in Heaven to be there with Him. The rapture is different. Christ comes down to earth and the resurrected Saints go to meet him in the air at the 7th and last trumpet and return to earth with Him. The concocted lies about the rapture, where Christ takes them all to Heaven doesn't match scripture, unless you cheat.
Due to the failure of most all of Christendom to obey 2Tim 2:15, and rightly divide (correctly cut) God's Word, very few see this calling, even though it's a plain as the nose on your face. Just try to forget, temporarily, everything you think you know about Acts, especially, and read both Ephesians and Colossians a few times, prayerfully. Everything I told you is there. Don't miss it!
A few samples.
Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Phil 3:20 (NIV) Note that we will be waiting in Heaven for Christ - totally different than the rapture
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Note that this is where Christ is now located
Eph 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
There is nothing in Acts or in Paul's Acts epistles that compare with anything Paul wrote after Acts. Everything after Acts was brand new, and was said to have been hidden in God since the beginning of the world. It was a Mystery, a secret hidden from every age and generation, until Paul, who continually received special revelations from the Lord, revealed it.
Don't believe me - Search and See!
This whole thread about the rapture is moot because no one living today will be in the rapture. The church in Acts was all-Israel because all the saved Gentiles were grafted into Israel, the good olive tree. In Acts 28:28, the salvation of God was taken from Israel, who had had it for 2000 years, and was passed to the Gentiles, who have now had it for 1955 years. Israel, being punished for not accepting Christ, was set aside, along with everything that was Jewish - the Acts church, the rapture, the Gifts of the Spirit, you name it
The only books that apply directly to us Gentiles today, and tell us what our blessings are, what our calling and the hope of our calling is, and our rules and directions pertaining to these things, are Paul's 7 books written after Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In these 7 books, you will find that, unlike anyone else in the other 59 books of the Bible, we Gentiles have an opportunity to spend eternity in Heaven. The Acts church, at best, had a calling of the New Jerusalem, which is not Heaven. It's a city that comes down out of Heaven and docks on the New Earth.
In these after-Acts books, we have a different and earlier resurrection than the Jewish one in Acts, the rapture. It is called the appearing. In it, when Christ first makes His appearance far above all Heavens, we will instantly be there with Him. In other words, He stays in Heaven and we are resurrected in Heaven to be there with Him. The rapture is different. Christ comes down to earth and the resurrected Saints go to meet him in the air at the 7th and last trumpet and return to earth with Him. The concocted lies about the rapture, where Christ takes them all to Heaven doesn't match scripture, unless you cheat.
Due to the failure of most all of Christendom to obey 2Tim 2:15, and rightly divide (correctly cut) God's Word, very few see this calling, even though it's a plain as the nose on your face. Just try to forget, temporarily, everything you think you know about Acts, especially, and read both Ephesians and Colossians a few times, prayerfully. Everything I told you is there. Don't miss it!
A few samples.
Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Phil 3:20 (NIV) Note that we will be waiting in Heaven for Christ - totally different than the rapture
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Note that this is where Christ is now located
Eph 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
There is nothing in Acts or in Paul's Acts epistles that compare with anything Paul wrote after Acts. Everything after Acts was brand new, and was said to have been hidden in God since the beginning of the world. It was a Mystery, a secret hidden from every age and generation, until Paul, who continually received special revelations from the Lord, revealed it.
Don't believe me - Search and See!
ac28,
1. The rapture is before the tribulation Revelation 4:1 according to the context and the time factor Revelation 1:9.
The thing that John saw was the vision of Christ in the midst of the candlesticks Revelation 1:12-18.
Revelation 1:19 was given next for timeline. That is why the vision was the things John saw.
Next, the things that were present in John’s day which is the condition of the churches Revelation 2-3.
The things hereafter is the church age Revelation 4:1.
This goes with Romans 11:25...blindness is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in and 2 Thessalonians 2:7. Of he that letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2. Enoch was translated as a type of the rapture to Heaven before the flood came and took them away except Noah and his family who found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
He had to be preserved for he was pure Adamite stock. So they were the remnant to continue all mankind at that moment in time. Jerry Kelso
Jerry,
Whenever the rapture occurs, you, nor I, nor any Saint during the past 1950 years, will take part in it. Our "rapture" is called the "Appearing" and it is infinitely better than the poorly named "rapture." Whenever the rapture occurs, it will be the 2nd resurrection and will be after the 1st resurrection, which is the "appearing", found only in Paul's post-Acts books. I believe the Appearing will happen in 2063, if I were forced to guess a date. Like it or not, the rapture happens at the second Coming at the 7th trump, when the resurrected Saint go out to meet Christ in the air and then return with Him to the earth.
There is zero proof that Christ comes twice and zero proof that, when he does come, He will take those saints from the Acts church directly to Heaven. For one thing, it doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible. Secondly, NO ONE in Acts ever had a chance of going to Heaven. If you think you are part of that Acts church, who will be raptured, you also must realize that the same rules would apply to that church today that applied to it during the Acts period, and, back then, people had a hope of the New Jerusalem, which certainly isn't Heaven. Every "proof" that says Christ, in His first 2nd Coming will meet the resurrected saints in the air and will take them to Heaven is heresy, at the worst, and an outright lie, at best, because nowhere in the Bible does it say that or even hint at that.
I know that there are but few things in the Bible that are absolute and most of those revolve around deity. For many things we pile the weighted yeas on one pan on the weighing scale and the weighed nays on the other side and see which is the heavier. On the rapture, it seem that the side with the evidence that it occurs at the second Coming, very much outweighs the evidence that says Christ has 2 2nd coming and, in one of them, He takes all the saints to heaven.
To me, every "type" is dishonest and is conjured up by people that attempt to make people believe that this "type" is proof that what they're trying to prove is true. All "type" are meaningless, except maybe the one about David being a "type" of Christ. Even then, much of is is pretty cheesy. Your Enoch "proof" is possibly the most dishonest and laughable "type" I've ever seen. But, of course, you already knew that.
The all-Gentile Church of today is Jesus Christ's actual Body, unlike the body (of believers) of Christ in Corinthians. Christ won't go anywhere without His Body. At present, He is hid in God. When He first appears, in Heaven, to the principalities and Powers in Heaven, we will already be resurrected and there in Heaven waiting for Him.
ac28,
1. The KoH program ended in Matthew 23:37-39. Acts 1:6-7 backs it up.
2. Acts 2 was the beginning of the church.
This has to be understand that this applies to gradual revelation not the KoH program as Berean believes.
3. The mystery of the church was ratified at the cross Ephesians 2:14-15. It didn’t manifest until 7-10 years later with Peter and Cornelius and the vision of the clean and unclean Acts 10.
Paul clarified it more in Ephesians 2-3. He said it had been revealed to the other apostles.
4. Acts 28 was the Jews rejecting Paul’s ministry. So he went to the Gentiles.
Peter and the others were mostly to the Jews.
5. The Jews of the early church were in Christ saved by the death and resurrection Acts 4:2.
Even the Old Testament saints were in Christ because of the cross. Hebrews 11:40 shows that both Old and New Testament saints were perfected together. So both of these companies who have already died will be raptured with those who are alive and remain of the church 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18.
All the tribulation saints except the remnant will be raptured in time for the Marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19:7-10. Jerry Kelso