LDS Mormons, who is to blame for the crucifixion and why?

Micah888 · May 26, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Exodus 9:12
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

Only after Pharaoh hardened his own heart having been given numerous opportunities to repent. God did not compel Pharaoh to be evil.

I never accused God of any wrongdoing. His thoughts are not my thoughts.

But here's what you said:

Mormons, if God determines that Christ will be crucified, does he wait for humans to co-operate? Does He have a plan or plans A, B, and C?

You were implying that since the crucifixion was pre-determined, the evil of the evil doers was pre-programmed. Hence plans A,B, and C. Which would have made God responsible for the wickedness of those who plotted the death of Christ.

It is not a matter of "humans cooperating". But it is a matter of divine foreknowledge about all things.

Rescued One · May 26, 2018

Micah888 said:
Only after Pharaoh hardened his own heart having been given numerous opportunities to repent. God did not compel Pharaoh to be evil.

But here's what you said:

You were implying that since the crucifixion was pre-determined, the evil of the evil doers was pre-programmed. Hence plans A,B, and C. Which would have made God responsible for the wickedness of those who plotted the death of Christ.

It is not a matter of "humans cooperating". But it is a matter of divine foreknowledge about all things.

God is NEVER responsible for men's evil choices. Everyone follows Satan until they follow the Shepherd; they are already condemned.

God doesn't need alternative plans.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you want to argue about this, you're in the wrong place. This thread is addressed to Mormons.

God doesn't sit around waiting to see if an evil man will do what He planned. God is our Ruler; we don't dictate our plans in opposition to His.

Romans 9:17-18 declares, “For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: ‘I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.’ Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.” From a human perspective, it seems wrong for God to harden a person and then punish the person He has hardened. Biblically speaking, however, we have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23), and the just penalty for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Therefore, God’s hardening and punishing a person is not unjust; it is actually merciful in comparison to what the person deserves.
Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

Do you want to debate Mormons or Christians?

Rescued One · May 26, 2018

withwonderingawe said:
Joseph was taken to tasks for some of his mistakes and was told "The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught......Behold, thou art Joseph, and thou wast chosen to do the work of the Lord, but because of transgression, if thou art not aware thou wilt fall" D&C 3

In D&C 114 he's told "For verily thus saith the Lord, that inasmuch as there are those among you who deny my name, others shall be planted in their stead and receive their bishopric."

The idea is that we always have agency, Judas had his agency. If he had not fallen to temptation then God would have found another way,

God doesn't have to find another way.

withwonderingawe said:
the sacrifice on the cross was preordained and it would come to pass.

Of course.

He is the way · May 27, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
God is NEVER responsible for men's evil choices. Everyone follows Satan until they follow the Shepherd; they are already condemned.

God doesn't need alternative plans.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you want to argue about this, you're in the wrong place. This thread is addressed to Mormons.

God doesn't sit around waiting to see if an evil man will do what He planned. God is our Ruler; we don't dictate our plans in opposition to His.

Romans 9:17-18 declares, “For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: ‘I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.’ Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.” From a human perspective, it seems wrong for God to harden a person and then punish the person He has hardened. Biblically speaking, however, we have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23), and the just penalty for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Therefore, God’s hardening and punishing a person is not unjust; it is actually merciful in comparison to what the person deserves.
Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart?

Do you want to debate Mormons or Christians?

You said: "God is our Ruler; we don't dictate our plans in opposition to His." Apparently some people do dictate their plans in opposition to God's plans. Do you believe that when a person sins they can say Lord why did you make me sin? Do you really believe that God makes people sin? I believe that the only way God helps us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison, take in a stranger, etc. is because we have a desire to be obedient and keep the commandments

Here are some scriptures to consider. Pay close attention to the last one:
(Old Testament | Exodus 16:4)

4 ¶ Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
(Old Testament | Exodus 20:20)

20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
(Old Testament | Job 23:10)

10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
(Old Testament | Malachi 3:10)

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
(New Testament | Acts 14:22)

22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
(New Testament | James 1:12 - 15)

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Rescued One · May 27, 2018

He is the way said:
You said: "God is our Ruler; we don't dictate our plans in opposition to His." Apparently some people do dictate their plans in opposition to God's plans. Do you believe that when a person sins they can say Lord why did you make me sin? Do you really believe that God makes people sin? I believe that the only way God helps us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison, take in a stranger, etc. is because we have a desire to be obedient and keep the commandments

Righteous desires are given to us by God.

He is the way said:
Here are some scriptures to consider. Pay close attention to the last one:
(Old Testament | Exodus 16:4)
4 ¶ Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

God was actually training them to trust Him. If they gathered too much manna in order to have some for the following day, it would rot. Each day God would provide; they had to trust Him.

He is the way said:
(Old Testament | Exodus 20:20)
20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

I like what Matthew Henry said in regard to Exodus 20:20___

20:18-21 This law, which is so extensive that we cannot measure it, so spiritual that we cannot evade it, and so reasonable that we cannot find fault with it, will be the rule of the future judgment of God, as it is for the present conduct of man. If tried by this rule, we shall find our lives have been passed in transgressions. And with this holy law and an awful judgment before us, who can despise the gospel of Christ? And the knowledge of the law shows our need of repentance. In every believer's heart sin is dethroned and crucified, the law of God is written, and the image of God renewed. The Holy Spirit enables him to hate sin and flee from it, to love and keep this law in sincerity and truth; nor will he cease to repent.

He is the way said:
(Old Testament | Job 13:10)
10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried* me, I shall come forth as gold.

* analyzed, examined

He is the way said:
(Old Testament | Malachi 3:10)
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

This is about tasting and seeing that the Lord is good.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Acts 14:22)
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Does not apply.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | James 1:12 - 15)
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried,* he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

All true Christians receive the crown of life. There is no Christian who does not love Him.

He is the way said:
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Those who haven't come to Christ are wicked and walking in darkness. They haven't been set free from the power of sin.

No one is ever tempted by God nor can we dictate to Him what will occur.

Romans 1
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 John 5
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

He is the way · May 27, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Righteous desires are given to us by God.

God was actually training them to trust Him. If they gathered too much manna in order to have some for the following day, it would rot. Each day God would provide; they had to trust Him.

I like what Matthew Henry said in regard to Exodus 20:20___

20:18-21 This law, which is so extensive that we cannot measure it, so spiritual that we cannot evade it, and so reasonable that we cannot find fault with it, will be the rule of the future judgment of God, as it is for the present conduct of man. If tried by this rule, we shall find our lives have been passed in transgressions. And with this holy law and an awful judgment before us, who can despise the gospel of Christ? And the knowledge of the law shows our need of repentance. In every believer's heart sin is dethroned and crucified, the law of God is written, and the image of God renewed. The Holy Spirit enables him to hate sin and flee from it, to love and keep this law in sincerity and truth; nor will he cease to repent.

* analyzed, examined

This is about tasting and seeing that the Lord is good.

Does not apply.

All true Christians receive the crown of life. There is no Christian who does not love Him.

Those who haven't come to Christ are wicked and walking in darkness. They haven't been set free from the power of sin.

No one is ever tempted by God nor can we dictate to Him what will occur.

Romans 1
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 John 5
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

You said: "No one is ever tempted by God nor can we dictate to Him what will occur."
In which case no one can say they have been saved. We can not tell God to give us the gift of life everlasting. We have been shown how we can be worthy to receive this gift:
(New Testament | Matthew 10:37 - 39)

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
(New Testament | Colossians 1:10)

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Salvation comes to those who endure to the end:
(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I pray that we may always make correct choices, because our choices define who we are. Therefore let us all do our best to glorify God by being kind and showing love one to another is my prayer in Jesus name Amen.

Rescued One · May 28, 2018

He is the way said:
You said: "No one is ever tempted by God nor can we dictate to Him what will occur."
In which case no one can say they have been saved. We can not tell God to give us the gift of life everlasting.

We don't tell Him! HE tells us!

He is the way said:
We have been shown how we can be worthy to receive this gift:
(New Testament | Matthew 10:37 - 39)

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
(New Testament | Colossians 1:10)

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Only God can make us worthy. We are being conformed to the image of Christ because He gave us faith. We HAVE the imputed righteousness of CHRIST. We POSSESS the life He has given us.

1 John 5
1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 Corinthians 1
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

He is the way said:
Salvation comes to those who endure to the end:
(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The only way to endure is to follow the Shepherd.

John 10
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Those who follow the Shepherd can't get lost.

He is the way said:
I pray that we may always make correct choices, because our choices define who we are.

His sheep know His voice and don't follow strangers. The desire He gave us is to please Him. He doesn't lead us into temptation; He delivers us from evil choices.

He is the way said:
Therefore let us all do our best to glorify God by being kind and showing love one to another is my prayer in Jesus name Amen.

That echoes one of my favorite verses:

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

He is the way · May 28, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
We don't tell Him! HE tells us!

Only God can make us worthy. We are being conformed to the image of Christ because He gave us faith. We HAVE the imputed righteousness of CHRIST. We POSSESS the life He has given us.

1 John 5
1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 Corinthians 1
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The only way to endure is to follow the Shepherd.

John 10
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Those who follow the Shepherd can't get lost.

His sheep know His voice and don't follow strangers. The desire He gave us is to please Him. He doesn't lead us into temptation; He delivers us from evil choices.

That echoes one of my favorite verses:

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. View attachment 229665

It is still clear that people are making bad choices:
(New Testament | 2 Timothy 3:1 - 5)

1 THIS know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Therefore let us be humble followers of Jesus Christ, thankful, unselfish, charitable, obedient, affectionate, kind and loving to everyone, especially to the poor and needy.

Rescued One · May 28, 2018

He is the way said:
It is still clear that people are making bad choices:

People began making bad choices in the Garden of Eden.

Non-believers are condemned already. Jesus is the Giver of freedom from the power of Satan. This freedom is only for those who are being saved.

JESUS said in John 8:
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

JESUS also said in John 8:
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The word of God says in John 14:
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | 2 Timothy 3:1 - 5)

1 THIS know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

WE DO KNOW THIS! Mormonism isn't needed because we read the Bible.

He is the way said:
Therefore let us be humble followers of Jesus Christ, thankful, unselfish, charitable, obedient, affectionate, kind and loving to everyone, especially to the poor and needy.

Christians have always done this!

He is the way · May 29, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
People began making bad choices in the Garden of Eden.

Non-believers are condemned already. Jesus is the Giver of freedom from the power of Satan. This freedom is only for those who are being saved.

JESUS said in John 8:
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

JESUS also said in John 8:
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The word of God says in John 14:
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

WE DO KNOW THIS! Mormonism isn't needed because we read the Bible.

Christians have always done this!

Every person who turns the hearts of others to God is needed. Onward Christian soldiers. Those who truly love God and their neighbor have no need to fear:
(New Testament | Matthew 7:16 - 20)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Rescued One · May 29, 2018

He is the way said:
Every person who turns the hearts of others to God is needed. Onward Christian soldiers. Those who truly love God and their neighbor have no need to fear:
(New Testament | Matthew 7:16 - 20)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Why change the topic? Christians believe the Bible.

He is the way · May 29, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Why change the topic? Christians believe the Bible.

I didn't change the subject.
You said: "WE DO KNOW THIS! Mormonism isn't needed because we read the Bible." Every religion that points people to Jesus Christ is needed. We all need to follow Jesus Christ and keep the commandments that He gave us. Love is the answer. I know that being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has inspired and helped millions of people as has other Christian faiths. We work together to bring people unto Jesus Christ.

Rescued One · May 29, 2018

He is the way said:
I didn't change the subject.
You said: "WE DO KNOW THIS! Mormonism isn't needed because we read the Bible." Every religion that points people to Jesus Christ is needed. We all need to follow Jesus Christ and keep the commandments that He gave us. Love is the answer. I know that being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has inspired and helped millions of people as has other Christian faiths. We work together to bring people unto Jesus Christ.

That may be the PR according to you, but it is NOT Mormonism according to your leaders or your so-called scriptures.

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.
1 Nephi 14

Doctrine and Covenants 115
4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Doctrine and Covenants 115

Doctrine and Covenants 1
29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.
Doctrine and Covenants 1

The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of heaven on earth.
Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven

Mormons go from door to door in an attempt to get anyone who will listen to become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It matters not whether they are already attending or are members of another church. I first met the missionaries on March 16 and they were soon encouraging me to be baptized. Still a teenager in high school, I consented and on the first Saturday in April of the same year I was baptized. Within a short time, my mother and two siblings were baptized.

People who are willing to listen to the missionary lessons are referred to as investigators.

Lesson 1
“Prepare your investigators to meet the qualifications for baptism taught in Doctrine and Covenants 20:37 and in the baptismal interview questions. This is best accomplished by inviting your investigators to make and keep the commitments listed below.” (Preach My Gospel, 31)
Lesson 1: The Message of the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

Rescued One · May 29, 2018

He is the way said:
I didn't change the subject.
You said: "WE DO KNOW THIS! Mormonism isn't needed because we read the Bible." Every religion that points people to Jesus Christ is needed...

Only the true Savior as revealed in the Bible that contains the true Gospel is needed, not religion.

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Ich bin klein
Mein Herz ist dein
Soll niemand kann da wohnen
Als Jesu allein.

Christians and Mormons can't work together; Christians won't bring people to Joseph Smith or Mormonism.

He is the way · May 29, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
That may be the PR according to you, but it is NOT Mormonism according to your leaders or your so-called scriptures.

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.
1 Nephi 14

Doctrine and Covenants 115
4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Doctrine and Covenants 115

Doctrine and Covenants 1
29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.
Doctrine and Covenants 1

The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of heaven on earth.
Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven

Mormons go from door to door in an attempt to get anyone who will listen to become a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It matters not whether they are already attending or are members of another church. I first met the missionaries on March 16 and they were soon encouraging me to be baptized. Still a teenager in high school, I consented and on the first Saturday in April of the same year I was baptized. Within a short time, my mother and two siblings were baptized.

People who are willing to listen to the missionary lessons are referred to as investigators.

Lesson 1
“Prepare your investigators to meet the qualifications for baptism taught in Doctrine and Covenants 20:37 and in the baptismal interview questions. This is best accomplished by inviting your investigators to make and keep the commitments listed below.” (Preach My Gospel, 31)
Lesson 1: The Message of the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

There are only two churches or peoples. There are those who follow Christ and those who are of the world or Satan. We know there are many churches on the earth and we know there are people who follow Jesus Christ and people who follow Satan in almost every one of them. In essence there are only two churches, those who follow Jesus Christ and those who follow Satan. That is why the Bible states:
(New Testament | Matthew 7:16 - 20)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

When Jesus was on the earth the Jews had perverted His word. That is why we have this:
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 3:6)

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Belonging to any one of the churches on the earth will not save a person. Every one will be judged on their own merits:
(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

He is the way · May 29, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Only the true Savior as revealed in the Bible that contains the true Gospel is needed, not religion.

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Ich bin klein
Mein Herz ist dein
Soll niemand kann da wohnen
Als Jesu allein.

Christians and Mormons can't work together; Christians won't bring people to Joseph Smith or Mormonism.

Yes Mormons, Protestants, Catholics, Evangelists, etc. can and should work together. We are all children of God and He loves us ALL.

Rescued One · May 30, 2018

He is the way said:
There are only two churches or peoples. There are those who follow Christ and those who are of the world or Satan. We know there are many churches on the earth and we know there are people who follow Jesus Christ and people who follow Satan in almost every one of them. In essence there are only two churches, those who follow Jesus Christ and those who follow Satan. That is why the Bible states:
(New Testament | Matthew 7:16 - 20)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Mormons pervert the gospel of Christ!

He is the way said:
When Jesus was on the earth the Jews had perverted His word. That is why we have this:
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 3:6)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

That verse does NOT say that the scriptures were perverted!!!

Even your Book of Mormon disagrees with you.

1 Nephi 13
24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.
1 Nephi 13

He is the way said:
Belonging to any one of the churches on the earth will not save a person. Every one will be judged on their own merits:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Not only was I a Mormon, not only have I read your scriptures, not only have I read Conference Talks, but I've also asked the missionaries. You can try to deny your scriptures, and your church's statements at lds.org, but the statements stand and no amount of pretend PR will change what I've shown.

Belonging to the LDS church doesn't save a person according to Mormonism. However, no baptism outside your church is considered valid, no person can be given the gift of the Holy Ghost except a newly baptized Mormon, no man can have eternal life "Celestial Kingdom" (per Mormonism) unless they have the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood, and have had their endowments and been married for time and eternity in one of your temples, and have been obedient to all commandments and ordinances. Commandments include tithing, Word of Wisdom, serving in any calling that is requested by your bishop or higher position, temple work for the dead, the Law of Chastity, the Law of Sacrifice, etc.

Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Christians have been judged righteous. Non-Christians don't have His Spirit and are already condemned; when they stand before Christ He will know all their evil works.

Christians have been forgiven:

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God
for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

He is the way · May 30, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Galatians 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Mormons pervert the gospel of Christ!

I am an LDS Christian. I follow the doctrine of Jesus Christ. We are judged on our own merits. Everyone can and should work together to glorify God. The choices we make determine who we are.
(Old Testament | Proverbs 4:2)

2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
(New Testament | Matthew 7:26 - 28)

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
(New Testament | Matthew 15:8 - 9)

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(New Testament | John 7:16 - 18)

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:15 - 19)

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

He is the way · May 30, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Mormons pervert the gospel of Christ!

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do NOT pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ:
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 76:40 - 44)

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—
41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;
42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;
43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.
44 Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment—

That being said, we also live by Jesus Christ's doctrine as He explained it in the Bible:
(New Testament | John 14:15 - 24)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
(New Testament | Matthew 5:20)

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Rescued One · May 30, 2018

He is the way said:
I am an LDS Christian. I follow the doctrine of Jesus Christ. We are judged on our own merits. Everyone can and should work together to glorify God. The choices we make determine who we are.

Having His Spirit or not having His Spirit is what matters. Those who don't have His Spirit are not following Him and don't belong to Him.

He is the way said:
(Old Testament | Proverbs 4:2)

2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Old Testament versus New Testament:

Galatians 3
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Matthew 7:26 - 28)
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

This is why Christians follow the Son of God and accept His doctrine, not the strange false doctrines of Joseph Smith.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Matthew 15:8 - 9)
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

We don't teach the commandments of false prophets.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | John 7:16 - 18)

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joseph Smith was a true narcissist.

He is the way said:
(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:15 - 19)

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

Joseph Smith's writings don't apply to Christians.

LDS Mormons, who is to blame for the crucifixion and why?

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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