Jesus cried to God when about to be crucified!

Godistruth1 · May 26, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
Yep, because the traditional history was composed later. The author emphasized that he does not see these changes as a deliberate conspiracy but rather a selective choice of sources that seemed true because they confirmed expectations. The Islamic historians were certain about some facts due to their religious faith, so any source that disagreed with one of these facts was assumed to be mistaken and therefore ignored.

According to this book, the sources that did miraculously survive from that period unanimously disagree with the traditional Islamic history.

Why promote the belief that Muhammad died in Medina? - because Islam needed to differentiate itself from Judaism and Christianity by emphasizing its Arab origins while deemphasizing its apocalyptic hopes that had centered-on Jerusalem.

You are saying Muhammad dying in madina makes more sense because that would mean islam needed to differentiate from Judaism & Christianity. Lol
Quran is in Arabic and its roots will always be from Arab. If Muhammad had died in Jerusalem after conquering it that would give more credibility to Muhammad. We have Islamic calendar and it started from migration to madina. So something as death of prophet could not have been missed by so many people. History is always recorded by various people but it may be compiled later on. We go by the authentic sources and its clear the date of death was June 8, 632 or Rabi al-Awwal 13, 11 A.H. now you using your intellect to tell which date is more authentic is not strong enough reason that Muslims will accept that.

HypnoToad · May 26, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
There is nothing that proves Jesus was not a magician

Um, ok

As to your video, lots of claims with no evidence.

Virgin birth of Mithra? Nope, Mithra was formed out of a rock, not even "born" at all, no virgin involved.

Mithra's birth witnessed by shepherds? The problem with this detail is that it completely contradicts the other part of the account that claims Mithra was formed when man had not yet even been created on the earth. How are you supposed to have shepherds there when man hadn't been created yet?? Add to that the fact that the earliest reference to the shepherds is dated about a century AFTER Christianity, indicating that it was the Mithra followers who stole the detail from Christianity. (The woman in the video says specifically of the Mithra shepherd story, "that, again, is a MUCH LATER story.")

Born on December 25th? That date isn't even in the Bible. Nowhere does the New Testament give a date. The Mithraic manuscripts also don't ever give a date of Mithra's birth. It was a fairly universal celebration day by many religions. While they celebrate the birth on that day, neither religion claims that as the date the births actually took place.

Osiris resurrected? Nope, according to the myth he went to the underworld, the land of the dead. He didn't return to the land of the living.

Osiris and baptism? Liberal scholars take the account of Osiris drowning and call it a "baptism". Really? That's like claiming the account of the Titanic sinking is a "baptism". The lengths that skeptics go to is just staggering.

Eating of bread as the body of Osiris? No manuscript support for this claim.

Miracle birth of the "Savior child"? The conception of Horus may be a "miracle", but that's where the similarity ends. Isis had sex with Osiris' dead body, she was definitely not a virgin. Just because there is some kind of miracle involved is too vague. We're talking about gods, OF COURSE there are going to be miracles.

Osiris redeeming the world? Not in any Osiris mythology.

Don't drink the Zeitgeist cool aid. That garbage has been debunked for a long, long time now.

cloudyday2 · May 26, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
You are saying Muhammad dying in madina makes more sense because that would mean islam needed to differentiate from Judaism & Christianity. Lol
Quran is in Arabic and its roots will always be from Arab. If Muhammad had died in Jerusalem after conquering it that would give more credibility to Muhammad. We have Islamic calendar and it started from migration to madina. So something as death of prophet could not have been missed by so many people. History is always recorded by various people but it may be compiled later on. We go by the authentic sources and its clear the date of death was June 8, 632 or Rabi al-Awwal 13, 11 A.H. now you using your intellect to tell which date is more authentic is not strong enough reason that Muslims will accept that.

The hypothesis is that initially Muhammad was an apocalyptic prophet. His message was to stop sinning, worship the one god in your own way (Christian, Jew, etc.), and take back the Holy Land for the children of Abraham.

There was an assumption among Muhammad's followers that Muhammad would of course be alive for the apocalypse, so Muhammad's death forced a reinvention of his movement. The apocalyptic features were forgotten and the Quran was composed to create an Arabic religion that could last. Jerusalem that had originally been the holiest site to Muhammad's followers and the expected locus of the apocalypse was down-graded while a cult-of-personality centered on Muhammad at Mecca and Medina replaced it. Muhammad was always important to his followers, but with the apocalypse indefinitely deferred to the distant future, Muhammad and his teachings became central.

Sorry that is rambling. This was a long book and hard to summarize faithfully. You need to read it yourself.

Lukaris · May 26, 2018

I believe the Lord cried this out in His final act of taking on our humanity was to show that God understands the fear we have at the moment of death. It is natural for us to be fearful; we trust our Savior Who told us that He has overcome the tribulations of this world ( John 16:33 ).

mark kennedy · May 26, 2018

Al Masihi said:
If there are lies you should have no problem refuting them.

I tend to agree, his response was disconnected from the discussion.

mark kennedy · May 26, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
There is nothing that proves Jesus was not a magician

Baloney

[/QUOTE]

Mithra was a celestial deity that bears no resemblance to Christianity. The rest of the video dramatizing similarities is pointless and false.

Barney2.0 · May 26, 2018

If you want to play it like that Godistruth1 I can easily look at similarities between Islam and Manichaesm a Gnostic heresy:
Both Mohammed and Mani claimed to be prophets and the seal of prophets, both claimed the teachings of previous prophets were corrupted and incomplete, both tried to fufill the teachings of previous scriptures which were corrupted, both deny the divine death of Jesus on the cross, muslims say he was saved, Manichaeans say it was the body of Jesus who died while his soul was saved other sources state Manichaeans believed Jesus was infact saved both in body and soul from the cross, and both effectively deny the divinity of Jesus. And for an extra fun fact Manichaeans we’re spreading their faith in the deserts of Arabia both before and at Mohammed’s time.

Godistruth1 · May 26, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
The hypothesis is that initially Muhammad was an apocalyptic prophet. His message was to stop sinning, worship the one god in your own way (Christian, Jew, etc.), and take back the Holy Land for the children of Abraham.

There was an assumption among Muhammad's followers that Muhammad would of course be alive for the apocalypse, so Muhammad's death forced a reinvention of his movement. The apocalyptic features were forgotten and the Quran was composed to create an Arabic religion that could last. Jerusalem that had originally been the holiest site to Muhammad's followers and the expected locus of the apocalypse was down-graded while a cult-of-personality centered on Muhammad at Mecca and Medina replaced it. Muhammad was always important to his followers, but with the apocalypse indefinitely deferred to the distant future, Muhammad and his teachings became central.

Sorry that is rambling. This was a long book and hard to summarize faithfully. You need to read it yourself.

I think I have good reasons not to read the book. Unless you quote the very sources, we could analyse that.

cloudyday2 · May 26, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
I think I have good reasons not to read the book. Unless you quote the very sources, we could analyse that.

Here is the earliest reference to Muhammad. This religious intolerance towards Jews and non-orthodox Christians under the Byzantines was why the people of Palestine were so happy to see the Arab armies arrive. The peacefulness of the Arab conquest of Palestine is attested by archaeology.

The teaching of Jacob is anti-Jewish and anti-Muhammad, but it does mention the existence of Muhammad. I don't have the energy to reread that chapter and describe what the author feels can be gleaned from this old source.
Teaching of Jacob - Wikipedia

Godistruth1 · May 26, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
Here is the earliest reference to Muhammad. This religious intolerance towards Jews and non-orthodox Christians under the Byzantines was why the people of Palestine were so happy to see the Arab armies arrive. The peacefulness of the Arab conquest of Palestine is attested by archaeology.

The teaching of Jacob is anti-Jewish and anti-Muhammad, but it does mention the existence of Muhammad. I don't have the energy to reread that chapter and describe what the author feels can be gleaned from this old source.
Teaching of Jacob - Wikipedia

The first conquest was indeed without bloodshed. It was Umer ibn Khattab who first took over Jerusalem.

Siege of Jerusalem (636–637) - Wikipedia
Islam and Europe Timeline (355-1291 A.D.)

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV)

Why did he cry if he was willingly getting crucified & he says God has forsaken him & why does he in many verses calls the father his God since he himself is claimed to be God?

Jesus said:

John 10:11 KJB - I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

John 10:12 KJB - But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

John 10:13 KJB - The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

John 10:14 KJB - I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

John 10:15 KJB - As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

John 10:16 KJB - And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

John 10:17 KJB - Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 10:18 KJB - No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John the Baptist, the prophet, said of Jesus:

John 1:27 KJB - He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

John 1:28 KJB - These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

John 1:29 KJB - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 1:30 KJB - This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

John 1:31 KJB - And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

John 1:32 KJB - And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

John 1:33 KJB - And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

John 1:34 KJB - And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John 1:35 KJB - Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;

John 1:36 KJB - And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Notice that John the Baptist, on sworn testimony, says that Jesus is the Son of God, and that Jesus existed before John the Baptist, and is to be preferred before [as preeminient] and that Jesus is the Lamb, the sacrifice for the world, as foretold from Genesis.

Revelation 13:8 KJB - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Genesis 3:21 KJB - Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Genesis 4:4 KJB - And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Daniel 9:27 KJB - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Hebrews 2:3 KJB - How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Romans 15:8 KJB - Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, He is the free will offering:

Deuteronomy 23:23 KJB - That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

Psalms 54:6 KJB - I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for it is good.

Psalms 116:14 KJB - I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.

Psalms 116:18 KJB - I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people,

Psalms 22:25 KJB - My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

Notice the last one is Psalms 22, which is what Jesus quoted on the Cross:

Psalms 22:1 KJB - To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Matthew 27:46 KJB - And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34 KJB - And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The Father and the Holy Ghost/Spirit had been with Jesus up until this point:

John 8:16 KJB - And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

John 8:29 KJB - And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 16:32 KJB - Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

But in the Garden of Gethsemane, the weight of the sin of the world was already being placed upon Him, and He began to feel its weight and separation from His Father, even so much so that Gabriel was sent as a messenger of mercy to strengthen Him for the final battle [and it was this same angel who passed betwen Jesus and the soldiers to come to take Him, that they fell backwards; John 18:5-6 KJB]:

Matthew 26:38 KJB - Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Mark 14:33 KJB - And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;

Mark 14:34 KJB - And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

Luke 22:43 KJB - And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

Luke 22:44 KJB - And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Therefore, the "My God [the person of the Father], my God [the person of the Holy Ghost/Spirit], why has thou [together] forsaken me [the person of the Son].", which is a reference to Psalms 22:1. The answer is because of [our] sin that He took upon Himself:

Deuteronomy 28:20 KJB - The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

Psalms 71:11 KJB - Saying, God hath forsaken him: persecute and take him; for there is none to deliver him.

Isaiah 53:3 KJB - He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 53:4 KJB - Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:5 KJB - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 59:2 KJB - But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

2 Corinthians 5:21 KJB - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Peter 2:24 KJB - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Habakkuk 1:13 KJB - Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

Jesus was alone upon the cross, apparently forsaken by God and man [though people stood around, none understood]:

Matthew 26:56 KJB - But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Mark 14:50 KJB - And they all forsook him, and fled.

Isaiah 63:3 KJB - I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

Hebrews 1:3 KJB - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV)

Why did he cry if he was willingly getting crucified & he says God has forsaken him & why does he in many verses calls the father his God since he himself is claimed to be God?

Philippians 2, answers the question about Jesus and His Father, and God, for since Jesus took upon himself the human nature/flesh, and is now also a man, He is the example for all men, and is not an atheist, but calls upon God His Father, not relying upon Himself::

Philippians 2:5 KJB - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,

Philippians 2:6 KJB - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Philippians 2:7 KJB - But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Philippians 2:8 KJB - And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Philippians 2:9 KJB - Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Philippians 2:10 KJB - That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 KJB - And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV)

Why did he cry if he was willingly getting crucified & he says God has forsaken him & why does he in many verses calls the father his God since he himself is claimed to be God?

A question for Muslims, a study of what they have written in their own sources:

I understand that the Qur'an speaks of "Isa", as "the Messiah" [Qur'anic, "Masih", to the Jews, not to Muslims]:

[Note to the reader/s: Qur'anic references are given by the [Uthamanic, Zaid ibn Thabit] English Translation Author, followed by the Title/Name of the Surah, followed by the Surah number, followed with colon [:], followed by the ayah [singular, ayat, [plural]], as thus [Yusuf Ali translation, Al 'Imran 3:45] [if the translation author is left out, any translation author will generally do, but there is a few differences in ayat numbering in the Uthamnic English between various tranlsations, therefore always double check the translation cited if refering and speaking with Muslims, be accurate, etc]

[a 'surah' is like what we would call a 'chapter' but is not really, as there is no real order to any given qur'an [since it is mixed into Mecci and Medini Surah, etc, and generally goes from the largest Surah [2] to the smallest [114, Uthmanic], so it is not quite accurate to say 'chapter', and the 'ayah' [or ayat] is like unto 'verse/s', but really means 'signs, miracles, etc', and some ayah that are next to another may have no contextual connection at all to the before or after ayah/ayat]

Yusuf-Ali translation

Al 'Imran 3:45

Al Nisa' 4:157,171,172

Al Ma'idah 5:19,75,78

Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:30,31

From what I understand and have read of Islamic sources [Qur'an, aHadith [primarily Sahih], Tafsir and Tarikh, etc], the Qur'an [etal.] teaches that Adam sinned ultimately because of satan, and thus lost his garments of light in the Garden, and became naked [and attempted to hide behind the "leaves of Paradise" [Ta-Ha 20:121], and God had to clothe him [them, Adam/Eve], with the skins of the slain animals/sacrifical lamb as per:

al-Hilali-Khan translation

Al A'raf 7:26,27

Ta-Ha 20:118-121

This is what was given before in the Genesis 3:1-24 KJB, and in Genesis 3:15 KJB, God promised a "seed" to the woman, and would come of the woman [not of the man]. Eve, understood this promise of God, to send the "seed", as she thinks [*] her first child is that "seed", see Genesis 4:1 KJB, "gotten a man of the LORD".

[* mistakenly, but hopefully, as every daughter of Eve since then had awaited, see Sarah [Hebrews 11:11] and God's continued promise to Abraham in regards the "seed"; Genesis 9:9, 12:7, 13:15,16, 17:7,8,9,10, 21:12, 22:17,18; Exodus 32:13, 33:1; Joshua 24:3; 2 Samuel 7:12, 22:51; 2 Chronicle 20:7; Psalms 89:3,4,29,36, 105:6; Isaiah 41:8, 45:25, 65:9, 66:22; John 7:42; Acts 3:25, 7:5,6, 13:23; Romans 1:3, 4:13,16,18, 9:7; Galatians 3:16,19,29; 2 Timothy 2:8; Hebrews 2:16, 11:18; Revelation 12:7, etc. KJB]

Thus it was God who instituted the "sacrifice" from "the foundation of the world" [Hebrews 9:26; Revelation 13:8, 17:8 KJB] and "the shedding of blood" [Hebrews 9:22 KJB] for sin/transgression of His Law. This "sacrifice" was continued through time, until Christ.

Al Ma-idah 5:27-33 [Cain and Abel continue the sacrifice]

As Saffat 37:75-83, 101-107 [Noah and Abraham continue the sacrifice]

Al Baqarah 2:67-73 [Moses continues the sacrifice, see also the clean and unclean in Al An'am 6:146]

Al 'Imran 3:183 [Elijah continues this on Mt. Carmel, also see notation in Yusuf-Ali *489]

Additional references, though in a different manner than the Bible [KJB]:

Al Ma'idah 5:2,3,95
Maryam 19:54 [see also Yusuf-Ali notation *2506]
As Saffat 37:101-107
Al Hajj 22:28,32-34,26,37
Al Fath 48:25
Al Kauthar 108:2

Now coming more to the Question itself, which concerns something which Jesus, being the Prophet, said:

Matthew 24:15 KJB - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Mark 13:14 KJB - But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke 21:20 KJB - And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Jesus, thus referenced the prophet Daniel, in Daniel chapter 9, where it was written:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Question is [to the Muslims], since Jesus quoted Daniel, and Daniel states that, "... he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ...", being tied to the work of the "Messiah", and the "sacrifices" go all the way back unto God and Adam/Eve in Genesis because of the sin of the first man, what would/did the "Messiah" do, according to prophecy from the days of Adam unto Christ's [Messiah] Jesus's day, that "cause[d]" the "sacrifice and oblation to cease"?

In other words, what does the official authenitc Islamic sources teach in regards this prophecy of Daniel, that Jesus mentioned, referring to the "sacrifices" coming to an end at a very specific time, that were offered since the days of Adam's transgression?

A secondary question to any Muslim, would be, who has studied the prophecies of Daniel from Daniel 1-12 KJB, since Jesus explicitly stated that we are to read Daniel's prophecies and understand them?

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV)

Why did he cry if he was willingly getting crucified & he says God has forsaken him & why does he in many verses calls the father his God since he himself is claimed to be God?

Daniel the prophet, in receiving a Messianic prophecy in Daniel 9 KJB, and the other texts mentioned, Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, etc] reveal the cessation of the "sacrifice and oblation" [which were from the days of Adam, because of his sin] by the "Messiah", even in connection with "Jerusalem" [not Mecca].

The theology of Islam claims [outwardly] that it 'accepts' Daniel as a prophet, but when it comes to the specifics of what was actually prophesied, even given to him by JEHOVAH [YHVH], through the lesser-arch angel Gabriel, etc, in regards the exact timing that the "Messiah" was to appear,

[AD 27, the Messiah was to be baptized, 3 1/2 years later He was to be "cut off", but "not for himself", in AD 31, and the Apostles were to "confirm" [Hebrews 2:3 KJB] this for another 3 1/2 years, ending with the rejection of Stephen by the Sanhedrin in AD 34 [Acts 7 KJB]

thus ending the final week of the 70 Weeks portion of the 2,300 year prophecy of Daniel 8:13,14,26 KJB], suddenly those words are rejected, even though in a Qur'an,

Yusuf Ali translation, Al Ma'idah 5:47,68; Al' Ankabut 29:47 it and Yunus 10:94

[in regards destruction for apostasy from the truth, even in rejecting the Messiah, as Daniel 9 reveals, for "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city", were the Jews which rejected the Messiah, and thus God withdrew His protection from Jerusalem, and allowed the Romans, under Titus to destroy it, even within the very "generation" [within 40 years], as Jesus had prophesied [Matthew 23:36; Luke 11:50, 17:25; Acts 2:40 KJB]]

it claims that the people of the 'Injil' are to judge by what has been revealed therein,

[which would include the words of Jesus, Messiah and Prophet, in Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21 KJB,

[since it may be shown by documentational [manuscripts, papyrii, codices, etc] evidence that the very scriptures we have to day [as preserved by God Himself, Psalms 12:6-7, 105:8, 119:89; Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:23,25 KJB, etc]

are what was in the days of the 6-7th century, in Syria, Turkey, Armenia, Egypt [Coptic, Bohairic, Sahidic, etc], Greece, etc.] etc in His direct command to believers to read and understand what was given in Daniel, especially since Daniel 9 was referred to]

and even according to Al 'Ankabut 29:46, Abu al Qasim, stated that he "believe[d]" "in that which has been revealed ... to [Jews and Christians, ie, the Taurat, the prophets, the 'Injil', even the Psalms [what Islam calls the 'Zabur']] ...", which was supposed to be "confirmed" [Al 'Imran 3:3-4], not denied, and since they are [present tense] the words of JEHOVAH, who could actually change His words [as even Islam's own Qur'anic material suggests for its 'Allah', see Al Kahf 18:27]?

Adam himself, according to Al Baqara 2:37 which claims that after Adam sinned, he received from 'his Lord', "words of inspiration", which we see given in Genesis 3:15 KJB, concering the "sacrifice", the clothing therewith, and the "seed" who would come and be "bruised" [crushed], so that the Devil/Satan would be utterly "bruised" [crushed completely and forever, see Romans 16:20, having began at Gethsemane and Calvary, to be finished shortly].

Thus a "lamb" was slain from the foundation, beginning the "sacrifice", which were carried on by the faithful of God, Adam, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob [Israel], etc., etc. unto, as Daniel prophesied, "Messiah the prince", who would, in the midst of the final week of the 70 weeks, "cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease", even at Jersualem, as pointed to by John the Baptist that Jesus was the actual "Lamb of God" [John 1:29,36 KJB], which was played out in every single "daily" sacrifice of the Sanctuary [Psalms 77:13 KJB], and at the "Passover" [Abib 10th unto 14th, 3 1/2 days, as Jesus ministered 3 1/2 years, day for a year, see Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6 KJB, etc] and though rejected by many, bringing destruction upon Jerusalem some 40ish years later, some would believe and be delivered from it.

Not a single Christian perished in the destruction of Jerusalem, for they received the words of Jesus, and fled when they saw the sign of Jerusalem encompassed with armies, and when Cestius returned from the first seige for an unknown reason back towards Rome, all Christians fled the city, and none perished when Titus came back and levelled it to the ground.

So when Muslims say that it "is not taught in Islamic sources" means to reject, or at the least to re-interpret, the Qur'anic sources just cited in regards the OT/NT materials, and that which is written therein, otherwise, how could it be said that anyone were to judge by what is written therein, or to consider what the Christians had in the 6-7th centuries, as per Al 'Araf 7:157, "written with them in the Taurat and the Injeel", and so on? [rhetorical] aHadith could be cited which reveal the same thing.

Neither Daniel 9 [which is simply a piece of Daniel 8:13,14,26 - 2,300 day/year prophecy [beginning 457 BC, Ezra 7 KJB], being "determined" [sectioned, cut from]], and the statements of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, say nothing in regards Mecca, the Hajj [remnants of tribal Arabic 'Jahiliyyah' [days of ignorance in idol worship, etc]], nor is concerning itself with any 'sacrifices' therein. The mention of Mecca, and or aHadith associated with it, etc is again non-sequitur to the Question, which deals with what the prophet Daniel, referred to by Jesus, stated in regards "Jerusalem", and the "Messiah" thereof.

I understand the general view [though there are a great deal of eschatological views in Islamic thought, primarily Isa is to return and destroy the pigs [Jews, on whom is wrath] and Cross [Christians, who went astray], even as Yusuf-Ali Surah Al Fatiha 1:7 exclaims] about the 2nd Advent of the Islamic 'Isa', which are contradictory to the prophecies of the OT/NT [but that is for another time and place]. Jesus will not only have a 2nd Advent, but a 3rd Advent [see Revelation 20; Isaiah 24; Zechariah 14, etc].

Here is the issue, if any Muslim [or Islam on the whole] reject what Jesus said in Matthew 24, Mark 13; Luke 21 KJB, in referring to Daniel the prophets and the prophecies therein, and also reject Daniel 9, in regards the "Messiah", and what He was to specifically do, then it follows that they reject the time prophecies which pinpoint to the very year that the "Messiah" was to accomplish His mission on earth.

Thus they must also reject John the Baptists statements [which were given him by God to say about the Messiah, thus rejecting the baptism as the pharisees rejected the counsel of God against themselves [Luke 7:30 KJB]] and eye-witness testimony, given in all 4 Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, about what Isaiah and Malachi the prophets foretold.

Thus there is no way in so doing that a Muslim can accept Jesus as the Messiah or prophet for any reason, since there was no specific time in which the "Ancient of Days" gave for the Messiah to do His work, and there is no way to determine what He was to do since John the Baptists, Isaiah's, Malachi's, etc prophecies are rejected, as well as that which was written about Jesus in the Psalms 40:6-8 KJB, etc, and even the very purpose of the "sacrifice", from the beginning, given unto Adam, with "words of inspiration" about it, and given again to Moses in the Sanctuary services,

[which were merely patterns of the True Sanctuary in Heaven [Psalms 11:4, 18:6; Isaiah 6:1; Jonah 2:7; Micah 1:2; Habakkuk 2:10 KJB [the Ark on earth simply His "footstool" [small throne on earth]]

wherein is God's True Ark, wherein is God's Eternal Holy, Good and Just Law of Ten Commandments,

[Exodus 20:1-17; see John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB, the foundation of His righteous Kingdom, a transcript of His eternal character],

see Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4;Hebrews 8:5 KJB, and also to David and Solomon were given again the very enlarged pattern of the Sanctuary [1 Chronicles 28:11,12,18,19 KJB], which is seen in Revelation 3:12, 7:15, 11:1,19, 15:8, 16:1, 21:22, KJB etc.

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV)

Why did he cry if he was willingly getting crucified & he says God has forsaken him & why does he in many verses calls the father his God since he himself is claimed to be God?

Here is what the official Islamic sources say:

Al Nahl 16:43 "ask the people of the 'reminder'", even of those men gone before who were "inspired" by YHVH, see also Al Anbiya' 21:48, and thus the 'inspriation' given are the 'words of YHVH' in the very 'kitab' [book, or books, see Al Nisa' 4:136 'send down before', 'the book', 'his books', 'messengers'], see also Al An'am 6:34, and see Al Ma'idah 5:44 "judge by it [taurat]" being "guidance and light", and it was "guarded" having "witnesses" and Al Ma'idah 5:46, "confirming" "guidance", "light", "confirming" what was in the hands of 'Isa' of the 'Taurat' [we know what OT was in the days of Jesus, even the Dead sea scrolls confirm the Masoretic texttype] and Al Ma'idah 5:47 "judge by ... [what] was sent down in it", and Al Ma'idah 5:48, "confirming" "the book and as a guardian over it", "judge", and Yunus 10:94, "in doubt concerning what we have sent down to you, so ask those (Jews & Christians) who are [present tense] reading the book before you" and Al Ma'idah 5:68, "people of the book, you have nothing until you perform the Taurat and the Injil and what has been sent down to you (Jews and Christians) ..." and thus does the Muslim claim to 'believe' in those 'book/s" or a simply an imaginary version of them that has no evidence to have ever existed anywhere except what was placed into the mind of Abu al Qasim, by Heylel? Do they deny 'the Zabur of David', the Psalms 12:6-7 KJB? Do Muslims have documentary evidence to substantiate Islamic claims, or do they simply have a fatwa to not read that which was 'before'? Why should anyone believe a religion that came some 600 years later after Christ Jesus walked the earth, in the midst of 'Jahilyyah', and idol worship?

Perhaps the Muslims, can help me out here. Seriously. I am not ignorant, nor unwilling to consider evidence.

John 5:39 KJB - [Jesus said/commanded:] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luke 24:27 KJB - And beginning at Moses [which Islam claims is 'Taurat'] and all the prophets [which includes David, and what Islam claims is the 'Zabur'/Psalms], he [Jesus] expounded unto them [two disciples, which Islamic theology claim were to be victorious unto the final day, Al 'Imran 3:55; As-Saff 61:14] in all the scriptures [the whole OT, Genesis to Malachi] the things concerning himself.

John 1:45 KJB - Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him [Messiah], of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Acts 28:23 KJB - And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Psalms 40:7 KJB - Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7 KJB - Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Zechariah 2:10 KJB - Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Hebrews 10:9 KJB - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

However, a more important text:

Acts 3:18 KJB - But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Let us notice that Acts 3:18, speaks that “all of his [God's] prophets” foretold that “Christ should suffer”. This means we ought to be able to go to the Old Testament to see if it speaks of this suffering, and manner by which Jesus would die. We shall then also consider the New Testament texts, which are built upon the foundation of the Old Testament texts.

Deuteronomy 21:22 KJB - And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

Deuteronomy 21:23 KJB - His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God

that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance

Paul the Apostle, in the New Testament quotes Deuteronomy 21:22,23 KJB, in regards to the “tree” that Jesus was hung upon, when he writes:

Galatians 3:13 KJB - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Peter does the same, recorded by Luke, in reference:

Acts 5:30 - KJB - The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 10:39 - And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

1 Peter 2:24 KJB - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jesus hands were “stretched out”, on this “tree”, even to the “right hand” and to the “left”:

Psalms 88:9 KJB - Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.

Romans 10:21 KJB - But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Matthew 27:38 KJB - Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

For it is written of Jesus:

Psalms 22:12 KJB - Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

Psalms 22:13 KJB - They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

Psalms 22:14 KJB - I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

Psalms 22:15 KJB - My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

Psalms 22:16 KJB - For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Psalms 22:17 KJB - I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

Psalms 22:18 KJB - They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

And further:

Matthew 27:37 KJB - And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

For Jesus “hands” were “pierced” by the “nails” [plural], one nail in the right hand, the other in the left, while the accusation, His title, above:

John 20:25 KJB - The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

Jesus opened his arms wide, as “far as the east is from the west” in His love, to deliver and save:

Psalms 103:10 KJB - He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

Psalms 10:3:11 KJB - For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

Psalms 103:12 KJB - As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

For the Scriptures declare that He would deliver by His “mighty hand” and “out stretched arm”.

Jesus himself said, speaking in another manner:

John 15:1 KJB - I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:5 KJB - I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

And since Jesus is “the vine”, it climbs up and supported by wood, and stretches out its tendrils along the trellises.

http://www.baag.com.au/images/pics/grape_spurpruning.jpg

Islam does not believe Jesus died on the Cross. How do they explain these things?

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV)

Why did he cry if he was willingly getting crucified & he says God has forsaken him & why does he in many verses calls the father his God since he himself is claimed to be God?

The Sanctuary, the Pattern/Type given by God, reveals the Cross itself, let us take a look.

Hebrews 9:23 KJB - [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

The "earthly" tabernacle, "the tupos", the type or plan, being "patterned" after the "heavenly":

Acts 7:44 KJB - Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.

Exodus 26:30 KJB - And thou shalt rear up the tabernacle according to the fashion thereof which was shewed thee in the mount.

… is they, tabernacle in the wilderness, and that which went with it, were merely the "patterns of things in the heavens", which could not truly be "purified" with those typological sacrifices ...

The ARK of the Covenant HAS BEEN FOUND since AD 1844! The Sabbath Commandment [Ex. 20:8-11] is seen!

Notice it says in the Holy Scriptures, the Heavenly Sanctuary, the True Tabernacle, "which the Lord pitched and not man", "the heavenly things themselves", could and must be "purified" with "better sacrifices" than the typological/shadowy ones …

Exodus 25:9 KJB - According to all that I shew thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make [it].

Exodus 25:40 KJB - And look that thou make [them] after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

Numbers 8:4 KJB - And this work of the candlestick [was of] beaten gold, unto the sh^ft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, [was] beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.

1 Chronicles 28:19 KJB - All [this, said David], the LORD made me understand in writing by [his] hand upon me, [even] all the works of this pattern.

Ephesians 1:20 KJB - Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Hebrews 8:1 KJB - Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Hebrews 8:2 KJB - A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Hebrews 8:5 KJB - Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 9:11;p KJB - “But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands ...”

Hebrews 9:24 KJB - For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Tupos = type, pattern. Strong's G5179 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=G5179&t=KJB

See Romans 5:14 KJB, Adam was the "figure" of Him who was to come.

See 1 Corinthians 10:6,11 KJB "ensample/s" is the tupos, of that which we are to learn from, the "pattern".

Skia = shadow, not the substance. Strong's G4639 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=G4639&t=KJB

See Colossians 2:17 KJB, shadow of the types, see Hebrews 10:1 KJB

See Hebrews 8:5 KJB, earthly priests and High Priests, but a type pointing to Christ Jesus own Priesthood and High Priesthood

See Hebrews 10:1 KJB, shadow of the types, see Colossians 2:17 KJB

AntiTupos = antitype, reality which is greater than the type/shadow. Strong's G499 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...ngs=G499&t=KJB

See Hebrews 9:24 KJB: “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:"

see also 1 Peter 3:21 KJB.

Let us now establish the pattern/type and reality/antitype:

"...even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us..." 1 Corinthians 5:7;p KJB

However, moving back into this pattern of the Sanctuary, the very places of the Sanctuary itself, demonstrate the pattern of Jesus suffering and sacrifice.

Beginning at the outer court, we have the Altar of Burnt Offering. Moving from there, we come to the Laver of Blood/Water. From thence in the outer court, we move through the veil into the Holy Place of the Sanctuary, and immediately to our right hand is the Table of Shew Bread, and to our left is then the 7 Branch Golden Candlestick, and ahead of us is the Altar of Incense. Moving past these, through the second veil, into the Most Holy Place, we come to the Ark of the Covenant and the Law of God therein. These are in the Pattern of the Cross itself. In each place, Christ Jesus received a wound.

[1] Altar of Burnt Offering – Jesus was pierced in the Feet, by a nail.
[2] Laver of Blood Water – Jesus was pierced in His Side, by a spear, out then came blood and water.
[3] Table of Shew Bread – Jesus was pierced in the Right Hand, by a nail.
[4] 7 Branch Golden Candlestick – Jesus was pierced in the Left Hand, by a nail.
[5] Altar of Incense – Jesus died of a Broken Heart, wounded by the sin/s of mankind.
[6] Ark of the Covenant – Jesus was pierced in the Head, by the Crown of Thorns He wore.

Image Source: http://www.lightministries.com/SDA/6a8b2bf0.jpg

Image Source: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-y6wnmN6pkj.../Sanctuary.jpg

There is much, much more in this Pattern given of God, yes, even the whole plan of Salvation/Redemption, and for that, I will recommend presently for further study, Ivor Myers Blueprint, and more later if needed:

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

Godistruth1 said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV)

Why did he cry if he was willingly getting crucified & he says God has forsaken him & why does he in many verses calls the father his God since he himself is claimed to be God?

Let us now turn quickly to Prophecy, and see the Pattern again:

Isaiah 28:16,17 KJB.

Isaiah 28:16 KJB - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Isaiah 28:17 KJB - Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Can any not see Christ Jesus in vs 16 [compare to Romans 9:33; 1 Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:8, etc KJB], but what more in vs 17!

Judgment also will I lay to the line... What is a line?, it is a measuring tool upon the horizontal... as far as the east is from the west; eternal in either direction, relationship of man to man, straight

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and righteousness to the plummet... What is a plummet?, it is a measuring tool upon the vertical, binding Heaven and earth together [Genesis 1:1, vav, aleph, tav]; from highest to lowest, relationship of man to God, straight

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And both together...

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The Justice and Righteousness of God, the very Love of God, meet there, forever demonstrated before all the universe... the truest standard of measurement, the perfect 'meter' - God' love, God is love....

In fact, the Cross, is a Throne. Jesus is Crowned King of the Jews. He has them which are on his right and left. There is also a seat placed upon it also.

There is more, much more, let us look and see, even in the very lives of the Patriarchs themselves...

Moses and Joshua, Aaron and Hur; Exodus 17.

Exodus 17:9 KJB - And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.

Exodus 17:10 KJB - So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.

Exodus 17:11 KJB - And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.

Exodus 17:12 KJB - But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

Exodus 17:13 KJB - And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.

Moses, representing Jesus as deliverer, goes atop a hill, where all may see him [Exodus 17:9 KJB].

Jesus was taken to the hill of the Skull [Calvary; Luke 23:33 KJB], Golgotha [Mark 15:22; John 19:17 KJB], where all may see him [Isaiah 45:22; John 12:32 KJB].

Moses, representing Jesus as deliverer, has two persons beside him, one on the Right, the other on the Left [Exodus 17:12 KJB].

Jesus, was crucified between two persons, one of the Right hand, the other on the left [Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:33; John 19:18 KJB].

Moses, representing Jesus as deliverer, was victorious for his people, so long as his hands remained outstretched and steady, until the going down of the sun [Exodus 17:12 KJB].

Jesus, whose arms and hands were each outstretched, with a “nail” [“as a nail in a sure place”; Isaiah 22:23,25 KJB] in each hand, thus plural "nails", whose “bones were out of joint”, even “as far as the east is from the west”, that they could not move, were steady, yes even till the going down of the sun [the “ninth hour”; approx 3 PM] on the preparation day, just before the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord God and feast sabbath began together, his victory assured, memorialized forever. Just as Joshua was victorious, this Joshua was too, over the real enemies of God, delivering the people with “mighty hand” and “outstretched arm”.

Such a great sacrifice that God has made, for us, to deliver us from the power of sin, satan and self.

Samson; Judges 16. - https://www.blueletterbible.org/Bibl...Jdg&c=16&t=KJB

Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, was born specially, by promise from God, to a woman which could not bare, and he was to be filled with the Holy Ghost, and to be dedicated to the Lord from birth to death, and to be deliverer of the people [Judges 13 KJB].

Jesus, a holy child, was born of the virgin Mary, by Holy Ghost, to be dedicated to the Lord forever [Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27,30 KJB], and to be the Saviour and deliverer of all people, who would accept the sacrifice [Matthew 1:21; Acts 13:23; Romans 11:26, etc KJB].

Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, was attempted to be taken many times by his enemies, but could not be until betrayed by a woman [harlot] he loved, for silver [Judges 16:5,18; KJB even as the type of Christ, Joseph was sold/betrayed by Juda for silver [Genesis 37:27,28 KJB]], into the hands of his enemies as a slave, even though he had “shewed [her] all his heart” [Judges 16:18 KJB].

Jesus, also could not be taken, until his appropriate time [Daniel 9:24-27 KJB, in the Year AD 31, in the First Month, Abib/Nisan, on the 14th Day of the Month, being the 6th Day of the week [aka Friday, preparation day], dying at the 9th hour [roughly 3 PM, the time of the evening Sacrifice], to enter into the 7th Day the Sabbath rest of Creation/Redemption] betrayed by a woman [the harlot Church, physical Israel, even at the hands of Judas], for silver [Zechariah 11:12,13; Matthew 26:15, 27:3 KJB], into the hands of the enemy, for the price of a slave [Matthew 27:9 KJB], even though God had revealed all His heart in Christ Jesus to the world.

Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, carried “the bar” of the “gate” [the place of judgment], even the great weight, across his “shoulders”, up to the top of a “hill” [Judges 16:3 KJB].

Jesus, also carried the cross [John 19:17 KJB], after a manner [Simon of Cyrene, being an example for us, to take up that Cross and bear it for Jesus; Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23 KJB], up to the hill of Golgotha [Matthew 27:33; Mark 15:22; John 19:17 KJB], the place of the Skull [the very place of the mind/heart of man; even Calvary; Luke 23:33 KJB], bearing the weight of the not merely the cross, but the sins of the whole world [Isaiah 63:9 KJB], the government and judgment should be upon his shoulders [Isaiah 9:6, 22:22 KJB].

Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, was blinded [Judges 16:21 KJB], that he could not see, and was ill-treated and mocked of his enemies [Judges 16:25 KJB], the LORD being departing from him [Judges 16:20 KJB].

Jesus, also was blind-folded [Luke 22:64 KJB], that he could not see, and was ill-treated and mocked of his enemies [Job 12:4; Matthew 27:29,31; Mark 15:20; Luke 23:11,36 KJB], apparently forsaken of God [Psalms 22:1; Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34 KJB].

Just as Samson, representing Jesus as deliverer, then in the last moments of his life, was taken out, placed between two pillars [Judges 16:25 KJB] and leaned upon them with his hands outstretched, to the right and to the left [Judges 16:29 KJB], east and west, praying [Judges 16:28 KJB], and dying with the enemies [Judges 16:30 KJB], destroyed the Temple [Judges 16:30 KJB], slaying his enemies more in his death, than in his life.

Jesus, also then was placed between two persons, one of the Right hand, the other on the left [Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:33; John 19:18 KJB]. Jesus said that He would destroy the Temple [John 2:19 KJB], by which he slays in/by his death the enmity between God and mankind [Genesis 3:15; Ephesians 2;16, etc KJB], forever magnifying the Law of God, making it honourable [Isaiah 42:21 KJB], demonstrating its eternality. His hands and arms outstretched, with a “nail” [“as a nail in a sure place”; Isaiah 22:23,25 KJB; thus plural "nails"] in each hand, whose “bones were out of joint”, even “as far as the east is from the west” to save and deliver, even unto a gainsaying people.

There are many other examples, in type. I will recommend a book which covers a lot of them [Shadows of Light; Seeing Jesus In All The Bible; by Pastor Doug Batchelor] - Shadows of Light

Also see for more information and examples here - A Witness To Islam/Muslim/Mahometans

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

The prayers will continue for you Godistruth1. My JEHOVAH Elohiym is victorious, going forth conquering and to conquer the hearts of men. Prayer is still offered for you.

If you do not repent, your sins will crush you, because you reject the only sacrifice and blood of the Lamb provided by JEHOVAH Elohiym, that can take away your sins, and reject the only great High Priest [Jesus] who can minister that blood in the true Heavenly Temple:

The ARK of the Covenant HAS BEEN FOUND since AD 1844! The Sabbath Commandment [Ex. 20:8-11] is seen!

Abraham trusted in this Lamb of God. Why do you not?

John 8:56 KJB - Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

John 8:57 KJB - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

John 8:58 KJB - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

When did Abraham see Jesus?

Genesis 22:1 KJB - And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

Genesis 22:2 KJB - And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Genesis 22:3 KJB - And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

Genesis 22:4 KJB - Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

Genesis 22:5 KJB - And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Genesis 22:6 KJB - And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

Genesis 22:7 KJB - And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

Genesis 22:8 KJB - And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Genesis 22:9 KJB - And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

Genesis 22:10 KJB - And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Genesis 22:11 KJB - And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

Genesis 22:12 KJB - And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Genesis 22:13 KJB - And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Genesis 22:14 KJB - And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Let us consider Abraham:

Abram came from a far country to bring his family into the promised land, and he is wealthy and has many servants. He, whose name was changed to Abraham (father of a multitude) was to have a miracle child, a child of promise. This child of promise's name was Isaac, meaning 'laughter', being a joyful noise (and in Jesus we have the good news (gospel), and rejoicing, as far back as Genesis 3:15). Abraham at this point being an ancient of days (a representation of the Father), takes his only son of promise to be the sacrifice (Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father). Isaac is a willing and obedient son to his father, and goes willingly (Jesus says, "Not my will be done..."). Abraham travels with several servants and a donkey (a beast of burden), but at a certain point the servants are left behind, watching from afar (even as the angels watched from afar, unable to interfere), and Isaac then carries the wood of the sacrifice upon his back (Jesus carries the cross). The Father and the Son travels 3 days to Mt. Moriah (aka where Jerusalem is) and 1/2 up the mountain (Jesus for 3 1/2 years ministered). Isaac (the son of promise) asks where is the Lamb for the sacrifice? And Abraham says prophetically, "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering..." (Jesus is the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world, and He layeth down His life). At the top of the mountain, Isaac willingly is bound and taken to be the sacrifice (Jesus allows Himself to be taken and bound). And as in type can only represent reality so far, Isaac, the son of Abraham is spared, only to have in his place a Ram (a male Sheep). This Ram (a male sheep in adulthood) whose head and horns were caught in a thicket, a thorn bush (Jesus, in his adulthood was crowned with thorns, a symbol of sin and sacrificed). A great deal more of the life of Jesus may be seen in the life of Abraham, and many other patriarchs and peoples of the scripture. Abraham has a wife brought out of Babylon for His Son and she too has a miracle birth (of which there are 7 miracle births in scripture). A woman in these scenarios represent the church/people of God, who were brought out of Babylon and taken into the promised land. Abraham goes down into Egypt and comes out far more blessed. Abraham goes and rescues his relatives and those of Sodom and Gomorrah (sinful wicked people) from captivity, being mightily victorious, and does not bring them back to their original places, but brings them instead unto Salem (later aka Jerusalem), and is met by the Highpriest and King of Righteousness of the city of Peace.

Abraham kept the commandments of God:

Genesis 26:5 KJB - Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

He taught these laws [the Ten Commandments] to His children, [Ishamel], Isaac, Jacob/Israel:

Genesis 18:19 KJB - For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Why do you not keep the Ten Commandments as Abraham?

John 8:39 KJB - They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Notice that God even spoke of the peoples Israel that would come from Abraham, to whom He also would show His Commandments [because in their captivity they would forget JEHOVAH Elohiym]:

Genesis 15:12 KJB - And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

Genesis 15:13 KJB - And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

Genesis 15:14 KJB - And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

Genesis 15:15 KJB - And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

Genesis 15:16 KJB - But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Genesis 15:17 KJB - And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

Genesis 15:18 KJB - In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Moses, an Hebrew, descendant of Abraham:

Exodus 20:1 KJB - And God spake all these words, saying,

Exodus 20:2 KJB - I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Exodus 20:3 KJB - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 KJB - Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exodus 20:5 KJB - Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:7 KJB - Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 KJB - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 20:12 KJB - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Exodus 20:13 KJB - Thou shalt not kill.

Exodus 20:14 KJB - Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Exodus 20:15 KJB - Thou shalt not steal.

Exodus 20:16 KJB - Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Exodus 20:17 KJB - Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Jesus said [see Exodus 20:6 KJB]:

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

You say you worship the Creator God? Do you even know His name? Moses did:

Exodus 6:3 KJB - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

You do not keep God's commandments as Abraham, as Isaac, as Jacob/Israel, as John the Baptist [etc], as Jesus, how can you claim to be of him?

John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus spake of His Father's commandments, and did them. Why do you not? Why do you say that their is no Father, no Son? John the Baptist said there was, Jesus said there was, and many others in scripture [KJB].

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

The My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me, points us to a question. Why?

The7thColporteur · May 27, 2018

That question of "Why", is answered, in scripture [KJB], with, "because of our sins", which He took upon Himself, and all sin "separates" from God:

Isaiah 59:2 KJB - But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Jesus cried to God when about to be crucified!

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