Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Is Colton Burpo a credible witness?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 40.6%
  • No

    Votes: 17 53.1%
  • I am not sure but I am looking into this.

    Votes: 2 6.3%

  • Total voters
    32

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
We need to try and work out what Jesus actually meant by these verses, because on face value, they are both clearly contradicted by the following verse plus others elsewhere. Exodus24v9Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Very specifically, they went up. Very specifically, they saw God! It is my belief when Jesus says "No man has ascended into Heaven" he is simply referring to climbing up on the strength of his own self righteousness, rather than God raising him up by grace. When Jesus says "No man has seen God" I suspect that he is referring to the Father. There are a number of appearances of God in the OT, which can only refer to Jesus prior to his incarnation.
Oh? I thought everyone knew that if you looked at God you would die instantly. Not even David has gone to heaven!
Acts of the Apostles 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts of the Apostles 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
The vision of the 70 elders Exodus 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel who is the Angel that spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai, as Stephen says, and the Lord that was among the angels there, who afterwards became incarnate, and having done his work on earth, ascended on high, The pure blue of the heaven above them lent its influence to help the inner sense to realize the vision which no mortal eye could behold.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1 Timothy 6:16 but should anyone venture to look on it, his whole frame would be dissolved." In such inconceivable splendour is the Divine Majesty revealed to the inhabitants of the celestial world, where he is said to "dwell in the light which no man can approach unto" . By the "face of God," therefore, we are to understand that light inaccessible before which angels may stand, but which would be so insufferable to mortal eyes, that no man could see it and live.
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
John 3:13 no man has ascended unto heaven except Jesus.

True........ but the word man refers to a human being......
stuck here in four dimensional space - time........
there is a part of each human being that exists before we were born and exists on after we die.......
that part of us can go up through higher and higher invisible dimensions of space - time... just do a search for the 1943 near death experience of Dr. George Ritchie to read more about this.

In my opiinion... this explains so many scriptures that I stumbled over while I still believed in the false "soul sleep" doctrine.


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

.... it is relevant.... that even in what may be seven dimensional space - time... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is still invisible.... to people who are in what could well be one part of paradise / heaven..... but not the highest heaven........


e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's Temple of Wisdom and Heavenly City Experience: They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
True........ but the word man refers to a human being......
stuck here in four dimensional space - time........
there is a part of each human being that exists before we were born and exists on after we die.......
that part of us can go up through higher and higher invisible dimensions of space - time... just do a search for the 1943 near death experience of Dr. George Ritchie to read more about this.

In my opiinion... this explains so many scriptures that I stumbled over while I still believed in the false "soul sleep" doctrine.


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience



.... it is relevant.... that even in what may be seven dimensional space - time... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is still invisible.... to people who are in what could well be one part of paradise / heaven..... but not the highest heaven........
Sorry but Jesus was a human and he didn't pre-exist and we didn't either. Hebrews 2:16; Hebrews 2:9
 
  • Useful
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
True........ but the word man refers to a human being......
stuck here in four dimensional space - time........
there is a part of each human being that exists before we were born and exists on after we die.......
that part of us can go up through higher and higher invisible dimensions of space - time... just do a search for the 1943 near death experience of Dr. George Ritchie to read more about this.

In my opiinion... this explains so many scriptures that I stumbled over while I still believed in the false "soul sleep" doctrine.


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience



.... it is relevant.... that even in what may be seven dimensional space - time... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is still invisible.... to people who are in what could well be one part of paradise / heaven..... but not the highest heaven........
Sorry but Jesus was just a man and did not pre-exist and neither did we. Hebew 2:16 for verily he took not on him the nature of Angels but took on him the seed of Abraham
 
  • Useful
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Sorry but Jesus was just a man and did not pre-exist and neither did we. Hebew 2:16 for verily he took not on him the nature of Angels but took on him the seed of Abraham

On the other hand.... there are a number of scriptures that can get us going on a fascinating train of thought.... and research........


Rom 8:29

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Rom 11:2

God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Rev 13:8

and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Sorry but Jesus was a human and he didn't pre-exist and we didn't either. Hebrews 2:16; Hebrews 2:9

There is a lot of merit to this idea at least from a number of angles.........
but there is a theory that each and every human soul receives a spark..... from one of the Elohim... who spoke in Genesis 1:

Gen 1:26


Then God said, “Let us make man[fn] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

What exactly is that spark from one of the Elohim?

Is it the Elohim part of the human soul that goes through a first trimester abortion?
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Oh? I thought everyone knew that if you looked at God you would die instantly. Not even David has gone to heaven!
Acts of the Apostles 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts of the Apostles 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
The vision of the 70 elders Exodus 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel who is the Angel that spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai, as Stephen says, and the Lord that was among the angels there, who afterwards became incarnate, and having done his work on earth, ascended on high, The pure blue of the heaven above them lent its influence to help the inner sense to realize the vision which no mortal eye could behold.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1 Timothy 6:16 but should anyone venture to look on it, his whole frame would be dissolved." In such inconceivable splendour is the Divine Majesty revealed to the inhabitants of the celestial world, where he is said to "dwell in the light which no man can approach unto" . By the "face of God," therefore, we are to understand that light inaccessible before which angels may stand, but which would be so insufferable to mortal eyes, that no man could see it and live.
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Good points..... and all of this comes back to the verses on pre-destination or pre-existence of the human spirit or soul before our birth as a human.......... because before our birth our soul..... could meet with G-d............. but once we are in this human form we cannot...... which is why meetings with G-d take place in the out of the body state as alluded to by the Apostle Paul in II Corinthians 12:2-4.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
He's credible. When I watched the testimonial video about it, God quickened my spirit to let me know it was true. Also later when I watched the movie.

I heard this particular Christian pastor publicly admit that she believed Colton Burpo herself.
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Colton did great at the box office!

Low-Budget Religious Movie ‘Heaven Is For Real’ Crushed It At The Box Office

The success of his book and movie remind me of this prediction:

"The Lord called a dozen men. He changed them, and then they changed the world. In your time He is going to do the same with children. It is also the time of the lioness. Great are the company of women who will preach he gospel. There will be many great men of God in your time..... but the great marvel and great honor will be for the women and children who walk in the ways of the Lord.

Remember it was the woman who was deceived and had enmity with the serpent, but it will be her seed that crushes its head. Women have a special place in this fight.

He looked into the eyes of the little girl. "It is your time as a woman. It is your time as a child, for the children will be for signs and wonders. They will turn the tide of the last battle. Gather the children and help their mothers. Great is the Lord in you for all you need." (Rick Joyner, The Torch and the Sword, page 77)
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
He's credible. When I watched the testimonial video about it, God quickened my spirit to let me know it was true. Also later when I watched the movie.

This is exactly what I think as well........

Here are some of Colton's direct statements from "Heaven is For Real" the Special Movie Edition:

"Do you remember the hospital, Colton? Sonja said.
"Yes, Mommy, I remember," he said. "That's where the angels sang to me."

(Prologue, page xiii)
....
"What did they sing to you?"
Colton turned his eyes up and to the right, the attitude of remembering. "Well, they sang 'Jesus Loves Me' and 'Joshua Fought the Battle of Jericho," he said earnestly. "I asked them to sing "We Will, We Will Rock You' but they wouldn't sing that."
(Prologue, page xiv)

.....
Colton nodded. "Yeah, at the hospital. When I was with Jesus, you were praying, and Mommy was talking on the phone."
What?
That definitely meant he was talking about the hospital. But how in the world did he know where we had been?
"But you were in the operating room, Colton," I said "How could you know what we were doing?"
"Cause I could see you," Colton said matter - of - factly. "I went up out of my body and I was looking down and I could see the doctor working on my body. And I saw you and Mommy. You were in a little room by yourself, praying and Mommy was in a different room, and she was praying and talking on the phone."
Colton's words rocked me to my core. Sonja's eyes were wider than ever, but she said nothing, just stared at me and absently bit into her sandwich."
(Prologue, page xvii)
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
My first encounter with a near death experience [NDE] was in 1970. I was attending a military advance course. Everyone in the course had at least one tour in Vietnam. One of the officers told us about his NDE after being seriously wounded in Vietnam. I was very skeptical then and for many years afterward.
.....Fast forward to 2009. I was scheduled for a simple 45 minute laparoscopic hernia repair. There were complications it turned into a 5 hour open surgery. I had afib, acute kidney failure, sepsis [major bacterial contamination] and ilieus [bowel blockage]. After that I am no longer skeptical of NDE accounts.
.....I have seen nothing in the book or the movie which contradicts scripture.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
My first encounter with a near death experience [NDE] was in 1970. I was attending a military advance course. Everyone in the course had at least one tour in Vietnam. One of the officers told us about his NDE after being seriously wounded in Vietnam. I was very skeptical then and for many years afterward.
.....Fast forward to 2009. I was scheduled for a simple 45 minute laparoscopic hernia repair. There were complications it turned into a 5 hour open surgery. I had afib, acute kidney failure, sepsis [major bacterial contamination] and ilieus [bowel blockage]. After that I am no longer skeptical of NDE accounts.
.....I have seen nothing in the book or the movie which contradicts scripture.

Exactly!

That book contains some of the most powerful evidence for the veracity of both the Christian and Jewish scriptures that I have ever read!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Now that was awesome. A little scary in places, and extremely informative and edifying overall. It's also very true. God quickened my spirit big time as I read it.

This ability to command the spirit of a child...... to go back into their body......
could sure come in handy if we are ever on the scene of an accident..............

 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
This video clarifies that that the young boy Alex Malarkey...... who recanted his NDE account....... is not Colton Burpo. The Alex Malarkey case is an entirely near death experience from Colton Burpo's.

(Personally...... I believe the mother put pressure on Alex Malarkey to recant ....... and she seems to have used pastors who knew the Soul Sleep doctrine well to influence that young man. It seems to me like she and those pastors got him to think that his NDE account could not have been real due to it seeming to contradict their understanding of the Bible).


Here is the other case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Came_Back_from_Heaven
 
Upvote 0

DennisTate

Newbie
Supporter
Mar 31, 2012
10,742
1,664
Nova Scotia, Canada
Visit site
✟379,864.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Oh? I thought everyone knew that if you looked at God you would die instantly. Not even David has gone to heaven!
Acts of the Apostles 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts of the Apostles 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
The vision of the 70 elders Exodus 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel who is the Angel that spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai, as Stephen says, and the Lord that was among the angels there, who afterwards became incarnate, and having done his work on earth, ascended on high, The pure blue of the heaven above them lent its influence to help the inner sense to realize the vision which no mortal eye could behold.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1 Timothy 6:16 but should anyone venture to look on it, his whole frame would be dissolved." In such inconceivable splendour is the Divine Majesty revealed to the inhabitants of the celestial world, where he is said to "dwell in the light which no man can approach unto" . By the "face of God," therefore, we are to understand that light inaccessible before which angels may stand, but which would be so insufferable to mortal eyes, that no man could see it and live.
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

All good points........ but these verses still cannot be denied......

II Corinthians 12:2-4:
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
All good points........ but these verses still cannot be denied......

II Corinthians 12:2-4:
He was in a trance: I knew a man in Christ about fourteen years ago,.... Which is to be understood of himself, as appears from 2 Corinthians 12:7,.

John is said to be "in the spirit", Revelation 1:10, that is, in an ecstasy; and so here this man was in the Spirit of Christ, and transported by him to see visions, and have revelations; or rather it intends a spiritual being in Christ, union to him, the effect of which is communion with him.
Dr. Lightfoot puts the conversion of the apostle in the year 34, the rapture of him into the third heaven, in the year 43, at the time of the famine in the reign of Claudius, Acts of the Apostles 11:28, when he was in a trance at Jerusalem, Acts of the Apostles 22:17, and the writing of this epistle in the year 57. [GILL]

The reason why Paul did not speak of this directly as a vision which he had himself seen was probably that he was accused of boasting, and he had admitted that it did not become him to glory. [BARNES]
I knew a man in Christ - I knew a Christian, or a Christian man; for to such alone God now revealed himself, for vision and prophecy had been shut up from the Jews. [CLARKE]
 
  • Useful
Reactions: DennisTate
Upvote 0