What if a born again Christian repents but willfully keeps on sinning?

Oloyedelove

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It is always best to read what God has to say about a matter friends and this is it. The Apostle Paul who, in the Spirit now, wrote over 70% of the New Testament tells us in Romans 7:14. To accurately paraphrase, he said, I just do not understand what I do! The good I want to do I don't do, but the filth that I hate? This I keep on doing. Paul makes a clear distinction between our Spirits, that are made perfect the moment we believe in the finished work of Christ and our "sin nature" . That filthy thing we all must deal with. One step further... When God says repent? What was the definition in Hebrew when He said it? It's "Nacham", "Metamelomai", or concern or regret which is akin to remorse. Not sin free! If we say we have no sin? WE lie and now that's a sin. We believers do the very best we can, but like puppies chasing a ball, we sometimes wander off only to return to the loving, Grace filled arms of Jesus. It's all about Grace and that's a permanent -FREE- gift. God bless you all...

How many times do you have to read Rom 7 before you see that it's an experience Paul had before meeting Christ because he kept saying " when we were under the law " repeatedly.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

He needed somebody to save him from such terrible experience and that's when Christ came in and gave him the experience of Rom 8
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

God bless.
 
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Oloyedelove

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I think Jesus wrote details of adulterous liaisons the men present had been involved with.

Don't add your thoughts to the scriptures. The Bible didn't give details of what he wrote, so forget about it, that means what he wrote is not necessary for us..
 
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Oloyedelove

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Addiction is rooted in sin, true. I don't think it's "willful" sin, though, since again I'm defining "willful" as "I know it's a sin but I don't care." Addiction is more of an "I know it's a sin, but God help me, I can't stop."

I could be wrong about that. YMMV.

You are correct.. But the power of the Spirit that we receive at Salvation breaks the hold of addiction over a person's life..
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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You are correct.. But the power of the Spirit that we receive at Salvation breaks the hold of addiction over a person's life..
Just to be clear, is this sinless perfection you're talking about? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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discipler7

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If a Christian born again Christian repents, but continually continues to willfully sin, is their salvation or eternal security at risk?
Yes.
.
1CORINTHIANS.5: = 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

HEBREWS.10:26-31

JOB.2:
=9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”
10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

1CORINTHIANS.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

REVELATION.22:12-15
 
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1stcenturylady

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That is great! All believers are spirit filled and I know God is sovereign over who is healed and who is not. Just wondering what one does wheb healing is not granted? Kinda like Paul and his thorn in the flesh.

Actually, I think that is our excuse for not seeing a healing - 'not God's will.' There is no scriptural evidence that is the case. If that were the case, then when we ask for forgiveness of sin, will He say, it is not My will to forgive you of your sins? I don't think the problem has to do with His side of things, but ours.

As for Paul's thorn in the flesh, that is a Hebrew idiom, like 'my mother-in-law is a pain in the neck." Paul was battling Judaizers and Nicolaitans who were perverting the gospel. They were "messengers of Satan."

Judges 2: 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ ” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.
 
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marineimaging

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Since we are not there we can only answer with what we know - but first let me say that I have not yet met a person who truly repented (turned away) to follow Jesus Christ, who did it with a truly repentant heart, and yet who continued living willfully unchanged. I can tell you that when I accepted Jesus as my Lord 50 years ago my desire to do God's will was immediate. There was no question of what I did or why. That said - as a babe in Christ I might have backslid about 20,000 times over the course of these 50 years and regretfully I still do. Every day.

A lot of it was knowingly but a lot was also having honestly realized what I did only afterwards. A LOT of people tell me I am too sensitive and nobody thought anything about it. Well, I did. And when I realized that I had wronged somebody, even if they didn't know I had, I would immediately go to my knees in prayer and ask God to forgive me. But more to the point there was a lot of times in my later years I realized that I also needed to go to the person I wronged and ask for their forgiveness.

Enough about me. If this person publicly claims salvation and that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior, but lives a lascivious and visibly unrepentant lifestyle, then maybe you need to be discerning and ask if they are just giving lip service to the Lord because they have an ulterior (hidden) motive. I have personally known a young man to go through the motions of being accepted into family, a church body, a movement, what ever it was, because he wanted to make a young lady believe he was committed. (For obvious reasons.) He set the stage, he dictated the terms, and he played the role just long enough to get what he wanted; then he threw her and the promises and relationship away like trash. When questioned why, that is exactly what he thought of her and what he really thought of Christ. He said, "If your Jesus was real he wouldn't have let me do that to her. She was a tramp and she deserved what she got." "What about the child. Your child?" "Not my problem, dude. She knew what I was. She should have used birth control. Or better yet, she shouldn't have let me in from the beginning. Or better yet, your God should have stopped me."

I am asking you now. Is your friend real or is all just lip service. Ask the Lord in prayer to help you see the truth and do what you must and feel the Holy Spirit leading you to do so."
 
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If a Christian born again Christian repents, but continually continues to willfully sin, is their salvation or eternal security at risk?

Can Believers Continue in Patterns of Willful Sin?

By John MacArthur

(The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Hebrews 10.)

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Here is possibly the clearest and most concise scriptural definition of apostasy-receiving knowledge of the truth, that is, the gospel, but willfully remaining in sin. An apostate has seen and heard the truth—he knows it well—but he willfully rejects it.

Apostasy has two major characteristics: knowledge of the truth of the gospel and willful rejection of it.

Every apostate is an unbeliever, but not every unbeliever is an apostate. Many people have never had the opportunity to hear the gospel, even in part. They are sinful and, of course, do not believe in Christ, because they have never heard of Him or of His claims. An apostate, however, is well acquainted with the gospel. He knows more than enough to be saved.

The Greek language has two primary words that can be translated “knowledge.” Gnosis has to do with ordinary knowledge, and in the New Testament is often used for general spiritual knowledge. But epignosis, the word used in verse 26, denotes full knowledge, understanding, and discernment. In other words, the persons described here are those who have much more than a passing acquaintance with the gospel. They know it well. An apostate has all the information. He lacks nothing intellectually. He has epignosis. He is among those who have “once been enlightened, … tasted of the heavenly gift,” and even “been made partakers of the Holy Spirit” (Heb. 6:4).

An apostate can be bred only in the brilliant light of proximity to Christ. Apostates are not made in the absence, but in the presence, of Christ. They are bred almost without exception within the church, in the very midst of God’s people. It is possible for a person to read the Bible on his own, to see the gospel clearly, and then reject it—apart from direct association with Christians. But by and large, apostates come from within the church.

Eventually, sometimes even after years of pretense and self-deception, the unbeliever who acts like a believer finally falls away. He gives up, loses interest, and goes his own way. He returns to sinning willfully, with no more regard for the Lord’s way or the Lord’s people. To know God’s way, to study about it and hear about it, to identify with believers, and then turn away is to become apostate. The process of falling away may be gradual, but at some point a conscious decision is made to leave the way of God, and reject the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Willfully (hekousios) carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual. The reference here is not to sins of ignorance or weakness, but to those that are planned out, determined, done with forethought. The difference between sins of ignorance and sinning willfully is much like the difference between involuntary manslaughter and first-degree murder. Hekousios is habitual. It not only is deliberate, but is an established way of thinking and believing. It is the permanent renunciation of the gospel, the permanent forsaking of God’s grace.

A believer may sometimes lapse into sin and stray from intimacy with the Lord and with His people. But, unless the Lord disciplines him and takes him to heaven, he will come back. He will be too much under conviction to stay away permanently. In the meanwhile, he will be robbed of joy and peace and of many other blessings.

We cannot always determine who is apostate and who is backsliding, and we should not try. We are not able to distinguish between a disobedient carnal believer and an apostate unbeliever. That is the Lord’s business. But there is a difference between the two, a very great difference. A person’s concern should be first of all that he himself is a true believer (2 Cor. 13:5) and then that he is a faithful believer. There are many calls to self-examination in the New Testament. Every time a believer comes to the Lord’s Table, he faces the reality or unreality of his salvation." SOURCE
 
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Lost4words

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Having strength to turn away from a sin that keeps overpowering you is very difficult. I think God is an understanding God and is always there with open arms for those of us that are extremely weak.
 
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discipler7

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We are not able to distinguish between a disobedient carnal believer and an apostate unbeliever. That is the Lord’s business.
Not true.
.
MATTHEW.7: = You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

GALATIANS.5:16-26
 
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Dorothy Mae

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If a Christian born again Christian repents, but continually continues to willfully sin, is their salvation or eternal security at risk?
These kind of arguments sound to me like "how much sin can I get away with and still go to Heaven" at it's core. Reminds me of a woman asking how often she can allow herself to follow her attraction to other men before her marriage is over. When you really love the Lord or your spouse, you do not ask how often you can offend/wound him before he gives you up entirely as "not his own." I know all the theological arguments for this sort of position but at its heart, it is asking if doing wrong in the eyes of the Lord is OK in the end.

A problem is likely that in our culture we are taught that the only stupid question is the one not asked. But to Jesus, (others with equal descernment) questions reveal the heart at times. The man asking just who is his neighbor anyway (how can he limit the requirement to as few people as possible) was revealed in his question. Perhaps to him the question was just an innocent asking for information. To everyone else, it was clear what he was thinking. Questions sometimes reveal the heart even though we tell ourselves they do not and no one will know what we are thinking by asking a "simple" question. Sometimes we reveal more than we thought. (Not saying the above poster has that intent, just saying that it sounds like it has sounded like this at times by some who ask this and arguments supporting the intial statement.)
 
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Then you can conclude that such a person didn't actually believe to begin with. For having believed one is then born of God as such is incapable of living a sinful lifestyle due to the regenerate nature, as it is written in the scriptures, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9
 
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If a Christian born again Christian repents, but continually continues to willfully sin, is their salvation or eternal security at risk?

I always have this little saying about friends. If you keep trying to talk to someone, and they are always flaky, and say sorry after, but continues to be flaky, then they were never truly sorry, to begin with. They are just trying to save themselves from looking bad. Eventually, you drop them.

So same here, they are not truly sorry, they are just trying to save themselves from looking bad, but no intent to actually turn from their ways. So yes their salvation would be at risk.
 
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How many times do you have to read Rom 7 before you see that it's an experience Paul had before meeting Christ because he kept saying " when we were under the law " repeatedly.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

He needed somebody to save him from such terrible experience and that's when Christ came in and gave him the experience of Rom 8
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but wit ieveh the flesh the law of sin.

God bless.
God's Word slaughters this nonsense! Jesus Himself said "the tax collectors and prostitutes will enter Heaven before the Pharisees". We are told 124 times to simply believe and once we do? We've accepted the Holy Spirit and are born again. This is legalistic Christian thinking that has no place in the pure and loving heart of Christ. This scares people who may have believed and been saved from the pit and that is tragic my friend." If a man says he is without sin, he is a liar ". Jesus elevates us to His Grave through His teachings and tells us how desperately we need His Grace. He is all about LOVE and Grace!
 
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Dorothy Mae

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These kind of arguments sound to me like "how much sin can I get away with and still go to Heaven" at it's core. Reminds me of a woman asking how often she can allow herself to follow her attraction to other men before her marriage is over. When you really love the Lord or your spouse, you do not ask how often you can offend/wound him before he gives you up entirely as "not his own." I know all the theological arguments for this sort of position but at its heart, it is asking if doing wrong in the eyes of the Lord is OK in the end.

A problem is likely that in our culture we are taught that the only stupid question is the one not asked. But to Jesus, (others with equal descernment) questions reveal the heart at times. The man asking just who is his neighbor anyway (how can he limit the requirement to as few people as possible) was revealed in his question. Perhaps to him the question was just an innocent asking for information. To everyone else, it was clear what he was thinking. Questions sometimes reveal the heart even though we tell ourselves they do not and no one will know what we are thinking by asking a "simple" question. Sometimes we reveal more than we thought. (Not saying the above poster has that intent, just saying that it sounds like it has sounded like this at times by some who ask this and arguments supporting the intial statement.)

I suspect I won't last long here. It has become a noticable pattern in discussion sites that those who hold false doctrines are exremely intolerant of anyone not sharing their viewpoint. This is also the record of history. Those who do not agree with them are to be silenced and sometimes those means were very unchristlike. So silencing those who do not agree with false doctrine is usual both now and in the past. Those who know the truth are more than willing to engage those who are deceived to help them escape.

Those who believe untruths cannot tolerant any disagreement. The fruit of knowing the truth is 180 degrees opposite as compared to those who embrace untruth. As such, this is likely the last post I will be allowed to write. Nothing personal against anyone ever written here but I do not accept "how much sin can I do" as an innocent question so "off with her head" is the response. When we stand before Jesus, I will not be the one who asked how much sin they could get away with. I cannot imagine what it will be like to look into his eyes and have than record of words said or written read aloud as the record of one's doctrine. And make no mistake, heaven is recording this stuff as well as the government. My best to everyone..none of whom I will likely have the pleasure of exchanging ideas.
 
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Hello and welcome to CF. :)

There is no reason the think you won't be allowed to post just because you don't agree with some people. Believe me, we have such a range of beliefs among our members that someone will disagree on just about anything you might say. :) We actually expect members to be civil and respect one another when this happens. :)

For a quick look at the rules - see this page - Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

Additionally, we have many forums in order to serve different kinds of discussions. You can see the Statement of Purpose as a sticky thread at the top of most of them, listing any rules that apply to that particular forum area.

And for minor problems of not knowing or understanding the rules, we try to give gentle reminders. The only folks who get summarily and quickly banned are those that join to post something objectionable like blasphemy.

If you ever have any questions, feel free to ask. We are always glad to help. :)

Again, welcome to CF!

I suspect I won't last long here. It has become a noticable pattern in discussion sites that those who hold false doctrines are exremely intolerant of anyone not sharing their viewpoint. This is also the record of history. Those who do not agree with them are to be silenced and sometimes those means were very unchristlike. So silencing those who do not agree with false doctrine is usual both now and in the past. Those who know the truth are more than willing to engage those who are deceived to help them escape.

Those who believe untruths cannot tolerant any disagreement. The fruit of knowing the truth is 180 degrees opposite as compared to those who embrace untruth. As such, this is likely the last post I will be allowed to write. Nothing personal against anyone ever written here but I do not accept "how much sin can I do" as an innocent question so "off with her head" is the response. When we stand before Jesus, I will not be the one who asked how much sin they could get away with. I cannot imagine what it will be like to look into his eyes and have than record of words said or written read aloud as the record of one's doctrine. And make no mistake, heaven is recording this stuff as well as the government. My best to everyone..none of whom I will likely have the pleasure of exchanging ideas.
 
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Not true.
.
MATTHEW.7: = You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

GALATIANS.5:16-26

Based on the context, I think the line you quoted from the article is related to the "judge not" principal, but probably would have been better worded "may or may not". Thank you for quoting the Scripture as a reminder that apostates such as false prophets whom are outspoken outwardly, can be known by their outward false prophecies. There may be a fine line though between a believer caught in sin and an apostate caught in sin, as in the difference between Peter and Judas. Certainly not all apostates are prophets, nor claim to be, the context of "prophets" is important to "knowing them".

In the past I have quoted the verse; "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." in support of total inability, which is related to "total depravity", because the verse speaks to the nature of the case, from the context of "Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?" the fruits are outward manifestations of the inward nature of said trees. So a false prophet cannot be a false prophet and a true prophet at the same time, this is an informal distinction in logic sometimes known as the "law of non-contradiction". A fitting parable for the sinning believer would be a parable of pruning, where the Lord of the vineyard, removes the branches which no longer produce fruit, so that they will grow back to become branches which do produce fruit.
 
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