The Rapture

David Kent said:

But there will not be a third Temple, actually Herod's was the third. The temple in Ezekiel refers to the church which is the temple at present.

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It can not depend on your desire. The project is ready, the place for the Temple is free from any buildings. When there are enough volunteers, we will build the Third Temple.

ProtectionET said:

It can not depend on your desire. The project is ready, the place for the Temple is free from any buildings. When there are enough volunteers, we will build the Third Temple.

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where is that ?

seventysevens said:

where is that ?

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In the Judean Desert, about 30 km south of Jerusalem, between Ein Gedi and Hebron, on the northern bank of the Nahal Hever stream, the southern slope of the mountain marked "543 m" on topographic map.

gomerian said:

Reading someone else's mail, and attempting to carry out what the author said to the addressee is not a wise move.

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God's mail in 1 Peter is addressed to every one of His Children in His Church.

gomerian said:

Oh, but I would. Especially given the 144k sealed.

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The 144K are diasporan proselytes?

The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

• Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
• Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
• Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
• Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
• Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
• Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
• Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
• Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
• Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
• Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
• Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
• Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and oneness of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and oneness are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000

gomerian said:

That's not what Peter himself says.

And James tells you to whom he is writing, as well.

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James addresses the twelve tribes as brethren, encompassing both Jewish converts, and the Gentile converts who were former proselytes among them.

You seem unwilling to accept Genesis 17:12 and Leviticus 19:34.

gomerian said:

I disagree for many reasons, among which: because the Bride is neither the friends, the virgins, nor the companions of the bride.

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Paul uses the same language to describe members of the Church.

Rev 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.


Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia to Christ.


2Co_11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


Just the fact that there are exactly 12,000 from each tribe should be enough to show that the 144,000 are being used in a symbolic manner.
Not to mention the fact that the twelve tribes no longer exist as a pure bloodline.
You might have better luck trying to find a living woolly mammoth.

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gomerian said:

Agree to disagree?

I've read somewhere that Jesus the Son of David is building His church. That's what I believe. I don't think it was ever meant for Solomon to do... God cannot help but have known about Solomon's heart. And God tells Solomon... if you walk in My ways. Just about the first thing we see Solomon doing is trying to murder his brother.

And since we see his son adding to the tax burden... we know that the stables and house for his foreign wife... and etc ad nauseam... we know why God told them not to want a king.

While I'm on the subject, it seems like Solomon made it into the list of the five kings that had fallen. IMHO, we have to take the statue of Daniel seriously, and see the kingdom of Babylon as gold, Persia as silver, Egypto-Danaan Greeks as bronze, and the fourth as some conglomeration of the above. We are told that Babylon is speaking like a lion, and Egypto-Danaan Greece is an Ethiopian Leopard, that leaves us with a Persian bear... and probably connected to Russia. And the men of the iron beast are maleable clay, with an iron fist ruling them... which with the iron teeth and claws, seem like the industrialized communist monster.

If Europeans have anything to do with the whole mess, I'm unable to see it. And believe me, I've looked at it from most of the views I see on here. And recently, I've discovered that the Digamma is a rather large clue, since Javan, for the most part, was moved north rather early on. The Achaeans weren't Greek, they appear to have been Egyptian Danaans... the language they spoke is a twisted form, spoken with a foreign tongue. So when God says He will set His children against Greece, He's not meaning the Pelasgian family which kept the Pelasgian/Aeolic Digamma... those people moved from Arcadia to Thessaly to Thrace... and on, to Britain. That's what the Cymraeg records tell us.

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Solomon. Two sides of the same coin. Wisdom and 666 talents of gold. Some went to seek the kingdom of God, while others in the same church are looking for that "all these things shall be added unto you" . And I myself? Did I not search for "all these things shall be added unto you"?

When it comes to Babylon, I think of the religions that have mixed with this world. Talmudic Judaism came from Babylon. By the way, Ezra was there. The Talmud is an attempt to survive and preserve the Scriptures in conditions where the Law can not be performed. The Christian religion is also Babylon, because otherwise there would be nothing left for us. They served Caesar, the righteous went into the caves, but the Bible was brought to us. This is Babylon, the mother of harlots, drunk with the blood of saints. But the head is made of gold!

Prophecies are a Mandelbrot fractal, they can incarnate once, and two, and many times. The first beast is Judaism. Judah the lion, the prophecy of Jacob. The Lion will rise to his feet and receive a wise heart from us, in Christ Jesus.

The second beast is Islam. He wrested the first three horn-commandments from the beast of Roman Christianity. The third beast - oriental religions, their four, four heads and four wings, they are able to "fly" in the spiritual realms. The fourth beast embarrassed not only Daniel, but me - when I read the book of Daniel, I immediately understood. Lord, where did you lead me ?!

The eagle, whom thou sawest come up from the sea, is the kingdom which was seen in the vision of thy brother Daniel. (2 Esdras 12:11)

There, in the 11th chapter, the number of the first feathers is identified with the first Caesar of Rome, Caesar Augustus rules the longest. Therefore it is, as it were, not a Christian religion, but a Roman modification of Christianity. This is Christianity, in which Rome is clothed. And this eagle has three heads. Clear?

The eagle is a symbol of Rome. Eagle is a symbol of Byzantium (Orthodoxy) and Moscow. Eagle on the coat of arms of the USA (Protestantism).

And this eagle is identical with the fourth beast in the vision of Daniel. Fornication of King Solomon.

And about 666 I wrote on this forum, where the beast has the features of all four animals from the vision of Daniel. The feet of Islam, the jaws of Judaism, the shape of a leopard and seven horns.

The name of the beast is 666: prosperity (euporia). This is the 666 talents of gold that Solomon received.

How do religions participate in this? They pray for the prosperity of Babylon, that is, the world system, at the head of which the devil (the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life).

I agreed?

jgr said:

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

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The true church has always believed that. Tertullian said the 144,000 were Christian virgins. The ECF also taught that the Temple in Revelation referred to the Church. And of course they were correct.

Heavenly bodies represent people as in Genesis and Revelation 1.

When I have had conversations with literalists in the past, they come up with all sorts of strange ideas. One of which is that stars falling to earth are shooting stars. As they happen every year, I can't see that.

And then there is the sun darkening. A permanent eclipse over Israel.

gomerian said:

I can't take the 144k any other way: Literal Hebrews, in their literal tribes. Minus the drunkards of Ephriam, replaced by father Joseph; and probably the mostly-daughters of Dan are still a problem.

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But the Jews are only 2 of the 12 tribes.
There is no doubt that the 144,000 are selected by Jesus, Revelation 14:1-7, out of the vast multitude of Christians seen by John in Revelation 7:9.
We Christians are God's people, from every tribe, race, nation and language. We will be divided into 12 divisions according to family characteristics. This is Bible truth! God knows who His faithful people are. Amos 9:9, Romans 9:24-26

gomerian said:

It's better read "the abomination that causes desolation". Which could be any number of things, including Gentiles in the Temple, eating frogs in the Temple, or the Temple itself. The fact is that the against-Christ will set up a sacrificial system, as though the sacrifice of the Son wasn't good enough; and then, because the followers of the abomination will not keep the Law, the abomination will stop the sacrificial means of purification. Not a stretch of the imagination, given the hands full of bribes scenario, along with the drunkards of Ephriam... who will probably be the chief priests of such a system.

"Behold, ye [are] of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination [is he that] chooseth you."--Isiaih 41

The Abomination appears to be The Against-Christ.

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gomerian said:

It's better read "the abomination that causes desolation". Which could be any number of things, including Gentiles in the Temple, eating frogs in the Temple, or the Temple itself. The fact is that the against-Christ will set up a sacrificial system, as though the sacrifice of the Son wasn't good enough; and then, because the followers of the abomination will not keep the Law, the abomination will stop the sacrificial means of purification. Not a stretch of the imagination, given the hands full of bribes scenario, along with the drunkards of Ephriam... who will probably be the chief priests of such a system.

"Behold, ye [are] of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination [is he that] chooseth you."--Isiaih 41

The Abomination appears to be The Against-Christ.

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Of course the Abomination that caused the desolation were the Roman armies, as the scripture says,