Salvation is already done.

razzelflabben

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"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John5:24 It's a done deal! They have believed in vain who abandoned the gospel of salvation by faith apart from works, salvation as a free gift, for a salvation by works gospel, a salvation contingent upon one's performance. For such people abandon trust in Christ and rather trust in themselves, their own works to save them.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance" Eph 1:13,14

"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." 2Cor 1:21,22
some would say that works consistent with salvation are those things that are done in the power of the HS...as per Ephesians 1:13-14 you quote above and 2 Corinthians 1:21-22...how do you argue that away?
 
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SkyWriting

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I am one of the few people who are not God -- so I wouldn't know what He experiences at once. :)
You should know then:

Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God , the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the last. ... I am Alpha
and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. .

Revelation 21:6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and
the end. ...

Revelation 1:11 which said: I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in
a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus ...
 
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corinth77777

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Salvation is already done.





This is encouragement to those who know the true Gospel of Jesus which is salvation apart from works. I have no time to waste with the wisdom of men that will throw away God’s word using man made wisdom to dismiss what they don’t want to believe. So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation.



Salvation is a gift. (Eph 2:8 You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God.) You did not save yourself, well if you did not save yourself that in and of itself tells us that salvation has nothing to do with what we do in order to obtain it outside of believing it. Anything that you have to do in order to receive a gift makes it a trade and not a gift. Therefore this teaching of repent of sin (which does not exist in the Bible) in order to get salvation is a lie of the devil. Furthermore, how can it be that one would have to turn from sin to obtain something already done and given.



God was in Christ, was is past tense; making peace, when was that done, when Jesus died and rose again. Salvation was already done before we was even born. (2Co 5:19 I mean that God was in Christ, making peace between the world and himself. In Christ, God did not hold people guilty for their sins. And he gave us this message of peace to tell people.)



Now consider who God is. (1Jn 4:8 ...God is love.) God is love, so if we can find a definition of what love is we can then come to understand not only the person of God but also is nature and character and what to expect from him. (1 Cor 4-7: 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.)



Pay close attention to love is not self seeking. Therefore God is not seeking for anyone to do works be it for salvation or to prove your salvation. God is not seeking anything for himself from you other than just have faith in him. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Now that is the pinnacle of one of the greatest statements we could grab a hold of. All our sins are paid for and erased past, present and future. Love keeps no record of wrongs. When was that done, at the cross. And to whom was this given, to the world (Jn 3:16). The fact it was done for the world and before time began then every sin was dealt with and erased to those who will believe.



Love always protects. Love is protecting your eternal life. Once by faith we have accepted the free gift of salvation that was already done, then love comes in and protects you. What is love going to protect you from? Everything that comes to harm the object of one’s love. And what would be the greatest harm that could ever come to anyone, to be cast into hell. Therefore, God’s plan of salvation included the greatest protection plan, to preserve all of His children unto His heavenly kingdom.

What is salvation
What are we saved from
And why are we saved
And can you be saved more than once?
Give scripture
 
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razzelflabben

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What is salvation
What are we saved from
And why are we saved
And can you be saved more than once?
Give scripture
How about a couple more questions added, like what are we saved to?
What does scripture say is the reason Christ came?
How does the reason for His coming inform us of what salvation is?
What benefits do we get from salvation?
 
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corinth77777

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Salvation is not just about what happens when you die.

Does not GOD want to save the whole Person.
The Body, Soul, and Spirit?
Aren't we to be transformed by the renewing of our minds?
And isn't our transformation part of salvation?
Yes! GOD gave us the gift of Salvation. And there were no works on our part required. Jesus died by Himself and Arose.....Our Gift is His Life.
Now that we know His Life is a Gift. As a Treadmill could be a Gift to someone who needs to be saved from their weight. What will you do with it.
In order to know life you must "work out your salvation" this is how we are not only saved from this life we live in this world, but how we come in contact with Life itself.
Thereby transformed by the renewing of the mind..
So no , we did not do Anything to earn Jesus's Life. But after receieving it we are called to work it out.

So we are saved, we are being saved[delivered in this life by "working out our call"] and will be saved.

We are called to walk, live according to the call of Jesus's Life, which is our salvation. And when we live it out we are rescued, saved, delivered, from this life we live in now! And life's circumstances. It is by the relationship we have when we live, even by works that are in Christ according to our call of Holiness.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
I am one of the few people who are not God -- so I wouldn't know what He experiences at once. :)
You should know then:

On the contrary - by definition I should not know...since I am not God -- I do not claim to know what He "experiences" at any point in time.

Here is an example of some texts that do not say "God experiences all of time at once -- all the time"


Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God , the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the last. ... I am Alpha
and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. .

Revelation 21:6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and
the end. ...

Revelation 1:11 which said: I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in
a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus ...


:)

--------------------

Clearly God "knows" about all events in all of time -- but "experience" is very different from "know".
 
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112358

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You can post the same diatribes a hundred more times and they will still not weigh in the balance with the truth of God's Word. He has never, not once, in any dispensation since creation, tolerated disobedience and disregard of His immutable laws. In the natural world and the spiritual you will never produce one example demonstrating otherwise. Obedience to God's laws, which is righteousness, which is where saving grace reigns, does not equate to the "works" referenced in the OP. The argument is a non sequitur. If it is followed through to its logical end, it leads to a doctrine of universalism where one has no responsibility for one's actions at all. It negates the power of the cross and the very reason Jesus Christ came in the flesh to begin with. It is a dangerous and false doctrine introduced by the father of lies in the dawn of creation when he said..."Thou shalt NOT surely die." Seek truth friends, and you will find it.
 
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corinth77777

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1 John 5:13


These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Asked yourself this question: why do they need to know they have Life? Because they don't know......and If they believe, why then do they need to believe some more? Maybe because salvation is a life. Jesus or Jesus's Life is the source of our Salvation. That means we must depend on HIM UNTIL WE DIE....as everything needs the sun, water and air in daily life.
 
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Neostarwcc

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While its true that all of our sins past, present, and future are forgiven we still shouldn't continue to live in sin. That won't produce salvation. I think the OP took it a little too far when he said we don't need to repent. There are several places in the bible where it says to repent.
 
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☦Marius☦

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"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John5:24 It's a done deal! They have believed in vain who abandoned the gospel of salvation by faith apart from works, salvation as a free gift, for a salvation by works gospel, a salvation contingent upon one's performance. For such people abandon trust in Christ and rather trust in themselves, their own works to save them.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance" Eph 1:13,14

"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." 2Cor 1:21,22

Both those verses say who "hears my words",

Wouldn't that be the commandments of Christ, including "go and be perfect"?
 
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☦Marius☦

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Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Galacians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Hebrew 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


John 15:4-6
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Romans 11:20-23
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 2:14-26
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? your works, my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.




Works are required as well as faith for salvation, and salvation CAN be lost.
 
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Kenny'sID

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you asked me what I thought works were...so direct answer...as I have studied works, as in the expression of our Love and appreciation for God's saving grace...works are those things that are righteous. The real question is how we want to define righteousness...the short answer is that which is right but I think that definition leaves a lot to be desired and I haven't yet figured out a better definition...maybe obedience but then again that leaves out many things in most peoples minds like helping one another even though that would be consistent with obedience most people don't see it that way which leaves that definition somewhat wanting....we could define it as Love but then again we have the same problem of people not understanding what it mean....we could also define righteousness as living in the power of the indwelling HS which is maybe my favorite but again, way too many people would misunderstand.

So there is the direct answer, does it help?

maybe a question worthy of our time and energy would be what is righteousness and how is it related to good works which btw, we are told in scripture to be doing without growing weary...if we grow weary of doing good works (whatever we decide they are) what does that say about our relationship with the living God?

We just have a disagreement on what works are, so for the purpose of the point I'm trying to make, best separate the two.Works are things we do, not sinning is something we don't do. Not sinning and works are both good things, and make us righteous but for this, things need to be narrowed down/separated.

The confusion has already been created by those who insist they are the same, it's all works, but to go to the next step it's easy to prove both are necessary to get to heaven.

First, Faith without works is dead...period, and those who want to ignore that, and say just saying they have faith and nothing else, will save them...they seal their own fate.

Secondly, I can give lists of sins along with comments those sins will end us up in hell, but most of you have seen them already, and some even try to make up excuses why they don't mean anything for us Christians (and they actually teach that stuff to others). But once again, to ignore the bible's clear meaning for the word of man or others who would rather go on sinning as a lifestyle, so they make up their own little mini religion, or another one of the Devils fakes , their fate is also sealed.

Our choice.
 
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☦Marius☦

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Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth
 
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bcbsr

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some would say that works consistent with salvation are those things that are done in the power of the HS...as per Ephesians 1:13-14 you quote above and 2 Corinthians 1:21-22...how do you argue that away?
Works which involve our cooperation are works which are dependent up us. Works which depend one us are our works. If it's God's work we're talking about it's God's responsibility and not ours.

As salvation is apart from works, those who work to be saved are disqualified. One must not work to be saved in order to be saved. "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5

Those who have been saved go on to do works of faith not to be saved, nor to maintain their salvation status, but simply because it's the right thing to do. Those who claim to believe, but then go on to work to maintain their alleged salvation status have not yet come to believe in Christ.
 
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112358

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Works which involve our cooperation are works which are dependent up us. Works which depend one us are our works. If it's God's work we're talking about it's God's responsibility and not ours.

As salvation is apart from works, those who work to be saved are disqualified. One must not work to be saved in order to be saved. "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5

Those who have been saved go on to do works of faith not to be saved, nor to maintain their salvation status, but simply because it's the right thing to do. Those who claim to believe, but then go on to work to maintain their alleged salvation status have not yet come to believe in Christ.
See post #28
 
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☦Marius☦

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Works which involve our cooperation are works which are dependent up us. Works which depend one us are our works. If it's God's work we're talking about it's God's responsibility and not ours.

As salvation is apart from works, those who work to be saved are disqualified. One must not work to be saved in order to be saved. "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5

Those who have been saved go on to do works of faith not to be saved, nor to maintain their salvation status, but simply because it's the right thing to do. Those who claim to believe, but then go on to work to maintain their alleged salvation status have not yet come to believe in Christ.

See post #32
 
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bcbsr

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Both those verses say who "hears my words",

Wouldn't that be the commandments of Christ, including "go and be perfect"?
And there are those who may claim to hear, but don't have ears to hear, having been caught up with a performance based salvation concept, thinking that they can be saved by their own compliance to law. Like when the man came up to Jesus and said, "good teacher" and Jesus responded that there is no one good but God, but as the man thought he could be justified by law Jesus challenged him along those lines.

The salvation by works Christian hear Jesus making salvation contingent upon compliance to law. But they fail to hear Jesus say "No one is good but God". For the rest of us with ears, Jesus is using the law, just as Paul said, not as a means to justification but rather to bring conviction of sin to drive this man to God grace. The legalists, good in their own mind, have yet to be challenged enough to drive them to abandon salvation by works and to embrace the grace of the gospel whereby salvation is a free gift apart works.
 
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razzelflabben

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We just have a disagreement on what works are, so for the purpose of the point I'm trying to make, best separate the two.Works are things we do, not sinning is something we don't do. Not sinning and works are both good things, and make us righteous but for this, things need to be narrowed down/separated.
okay, let me ask you a question...if God told you to go talk to Joe and you didn't, would that be a sin? What if God told you to go talk to Joe and you did? would that be a work? I honestly think you are trying to split hairs to adjust for those who do not want to listen to what is being said and that is as big a problem as not listening.
The confusion has already been created by those who insist they are the same, it's all works, but to go to the next step it's easy to prove both are necessary to get to heaven.
I beg to differ...salvation is not about heaven...heaven is a reward that comes from salvation but salvation is about life...it is about being set free from the bondage of both sin and death...consider Romans 6 and many others....salvation is about life not heaven and the sooner we understand this, the sooner our relationships with Christ can flourish...
First, Faith without works is dead...period, and those who want to ignore that, and say just saying they have faith and nothing else, will save them...they seal their own fate.

Secondly, I can give lists of sins along with comments those sins will end us up in hell, but most of you have seen them already, and some even try to make up excuses why they don't mean anything for us Christians (and they actually teach that stuff to others). But once again, to ignore the bible's clear meaning for the word of man or others who would rather go on sinning as a lifestyle, so they make up their own little mini religion, or another one of the Devils fakes , their fate is also sealed.

Our choice.
and now who are you talking to? Part of the problem you and I are having is that we are including two different things in our posts that the other is not talking about.
 
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☦Marius☦

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And there are those who may claim to hear, but don't have ears to hear, having been caught up with a performance based salvation concept, thinking that they can be saved by their own compliance to law. Like when the man came up to Jesus and said, "good teacher" and Jesus responded that there is no one good but God, but as the man thought he could be justified by law Jesus challenged him along those lines.

The salvation by works Christian hear Jesus making salvation contingent upon compliance to law. But they fail to hear Jesus say "No one is good but God". For the rest of us with ears, Jesus is using the law, just as Paul said, not as a means to justification but rather to bring conviction of sin to drive this man to God grace. The legalists, good in their own mind, have yet to be challenged enough to drive them to abandon salvation by works and to embrace the grace of the gospel whereby salvation is a free gift apart works.

You say this as if you can't do works in faith.
Faith is like a plant, with salvation it's flower.
Works are like the water you give the plant to survive.

You cannot have a flower without the plant,
And you cannot have the plant without water.

This is scripturally supported see post 32 and 34
 
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