What is the 1st resurrection?

Douggg · May 25, 2018

claninja said:
So you believe Jesus is coming 3 times?

Could you clarify your question? Do you mean to stand on this earth, at the Mt. of Olives? The place he left and will be coming back to?

For that, Jesus is coming a Second time, when them in Jerusalem are to see him again to fulfill Matthew 23:39.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Jesus's first coming is in this verse...

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Them in Jerusalem will not see Jesus when he comes for the resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians4:15-18, earlier.

claninja said:
According to Jesus, when he comes, he rewards righteous and punishes the wicked.

There will be a countless number saved after the resurrection/rapture takes place who will be rewarded when Jesus returns..

Douggg · May 25, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
And your problem in all of it is the temple. Jerusalem is a contested zone right now and has no temple. None of these things can happen without there being a temple in Jerusalem with the daily sacrifices still being offered.

Well, you are right about that, Kevin. But the size of the temple to be built does not have to be huge, and can be built quickly built to expedite the temple observances and animal sacrifices. The minimum size would only have to be 30 x 15 ft for the sanctuary. There would also have to be a brazen altar built.

The animal sacrifices will begin again on day 220 of the 7 years. Day 2520-2300 = day 220.

Douggg · May 25, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
I recommend reading my book to understand exactly where we are right now. I explain in history and scripture every step of the way what America is in this future prophesied history.

America, which will be under the dominion of the Kingdom of God when Jesus returns to this earth. All nations will be.

Kevin Snow · May 25, 2018

Douggg said:
America, which be under the dominion of the Kingdom of God when Jesus returns to this earth. All nations will be.

In my book I explain that America under George Washington in New York is the 7th Babylon who is the prostitute in Revelations that will be destroyed. My book proves this to be the case. The 8th, the beast is coming after America is destroyed.

TheSeeker2014 · May 25, 2018

Revelation 20 (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I like to look at the whole chapter because v7 was cut off in the middle of a sentence.
The first Resurrection are Christians. AT/ON THE DAY of the Second Coming the dead(resurrected) and alive(caught up after the Resurrection of the dead christians) IN Christ are together with Christ in the sky right before His feet touch the Mount. ref 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 & Zechariah 14:4-5
The second resurrection is everyone else.
The 1000 yr reign can't just be those who endured the 3.5 years or whatever. It goes all the way back.
What of those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God before Jesus' ascension? (after the ascension is the start of the end times, the end times is the Church Age) (John the baptist).
"and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

I know it seems popular to believe that you can't fall to the beast system before a certain time period but I am sure you can. Look at the past national monsters. Each day a person must choose money or God country or God leader or God ect ect. The Mark of the beast is literally antishema and not some unknown mystery code to crack to the Christians of the day that Revelation was written. They knew what the book of Revelation was sharing and teaching.

Douggg · May 25, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
In my book I explain that America under George Washington in New York is the 7th Babylon who is the prostitute in Revelations that will be destroyed. My book proves this to be the case. The 8th, the beast is coming after America is destroyed.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Kevin, not America. Mystery, Babylon the great is the invisible kingdom of Satan/his angels. When the 7th trumpet blows, God starts dismantling Satan's kingdom.

Separately, the 7th and 8th Kings of Revelation 17:10 are a person, not a nation.

Kevin Snow · May 25, 2018

Douggg said:
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Kevin, not America. Mystery, Babylon the great is the invisible kingdom of Satan/his angels. When the 7th trumpet blows, God starts dismantling Satan's kingdom.

Separately, the 7th and 8th Kings of Revelation 17:10 are a person, not a nation.

You are very wrong. For it says the woman is the city and it says that this city sits on 7 mountains which are kingdoms. Just read my book and then you'll understand.

Douggg · May 25, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
You are very wrong. For it says the woman is the city and it says that this city sits on 7 mountains which are kingdoms. Just read my book and then you'll understand.

The woman is not Mystery Babylon the Great, no more than them who will have the beast's name on their foreheads to buy or sell will not be the beast. They are influenced and controlled by the beast.

The woman in Revelation 17 is controlled by the invisible kingdom, principality, of Satan/his angels.

There woman is connected to a city have 7 mountains, which is Rome. So are the seven kings. It is not 7 kingdoms in the text.

The seven kings are:

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
end times little horn person

Kevin Snow · May 25, 2018

Douggg said:
The woman is not Mystery Babylon the Great, no more than them who will have the beast's name on their foreheads to buy or sell will not be the beast. They are influenced and controlled by the beast.

The woman in Revelation 17 is controlled by the invisible kingdom, principality, of Satan/his angels.

There woman is connected to a city have 7 mountains, which is Rome. So are the seven kings.

Rome is the 6th Babylon under Caesar Augustus. See? It is a city. It is the one that "is" at the time of the writing. The 7th Babylon is New York under George Washington. The 8th is the beast itself which has no city.

Douggg · May 25, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
Rome is the 6th Babylon under Caesar Augustus. See? It is a city. It is the one that "is" at the time of the writing. The 7th Babylon is New York under George Washington. The 8th is the beast itself which has no city.

Augustus was ruling at the time of Jesus. The one ruling at the time John was presented Revelation was Nero. Nero is the one who "is".

Kevin Snow · May 25, 2018

Douggg said:
Augustus was ruling at the time of Jesus. The one ruling at the time John was presented Revelation was Nero. Nero is the one who "is".

It is whoever started the Babylon that counts. So I listed George Washington remember? But he's dead.

sdowney717 · May 25, 2018

Douggg said:
America, which be under the dominion of the Kingdom of God when Jesus returns to this earth. All nations will be.

No that is not true, no nation will be, are you a Dominionist?
The dominion is given to the saints at the very end after the heavenly court seats and takes away the best's authority on earth, read Daniel 7. this happens after the beast has been persecuting the saints, for the times, times and half time, so 3.5 years.

example,
Daniel 7:27 has not yet happened.
Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.

v25 and v26 describe what is going on before v27 occurs in the timeline.
Do you honestly believe we are given the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven right now? Just look at the news out there in this evil world. Christians do not control any of this world government and never will.

17 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four [h]kings which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’

19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.

21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

sdowney717 · May 25, 2018

Daniel 7, v8 here and forward has definitely not yet happened.
Can anyone say this satanic antichrist figure

11 “I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

is in the past?
Does not Peter say your adversary the devil goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour? So not yet slain, still exercises power..

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.

Vision of the Ancient of Days
9 “I watched till thrones were [d]put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The [e]court was seated,
And the books were opened.

11 “I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

claninja · May 25, 2018

Douggg said:
Could you clarify your question? Do you mean to stand on this earth, at the Mt. of Olives? The place he left and will be coming back to?

The only coming that has to do with the resurrection of the of dead

Matthew 24:30-31 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthc will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Douggg said:
Jesus's first coming is in this verse...

I agree, the first coming of Jesus was in the flesh

Douggg said:
Them in Jerusalem will not see Jesus when he comes for the resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians4:15-18, earlier.

According to Paul, in Thessalonians, multiple things happen at Jesus' coming

1.)The resurrection
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

2.) punishment of those who do not believe in God
1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1 Thessalonians 1:7-10 This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

3.) The man of lawlessness is destroyed
2 Thessalonians 2:9 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming

Douggg said:
There will be a countless number saved after the resurrection/rapture takes place who will be rewarded when Jesus returns..

The wicked are punished at Jesus' coming

Matthew 25:31,46 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1 Thessalonians 1:7-10 This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

BABerean2 · May 25, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
None of these things can happen without there being a temple in Jerusalem with the daily sacrifices still being offered.

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
(from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

.

Kevin Snow · May 25, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
(from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

.

Ah good! I was waiting for this response for some time now. Yes you are right! There is no longer any offering for sin but this is not the offering made! Yes, it is the daily sacrifices, the morning and evening sacrifices which will still be offered. These were commanded as a perpetual statute for Israel and so will be restored during our days.

Douggg · May 25, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Do you honestly believe we are given the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven right now?

No, I made a typo and forgot to insert the word "will" for "will be". Thanks, for your post, otherwise I would not have been aware.

I was wondering what prompted you to think I was a Dominionist, Kingdom now believer.

Douggg · May 25, 2018

claninja said:
The only coming that has to do with the resurrection of the of dead

Matthew 24:30-31 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthc will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

What part are you reading "the dead" in that passage?

sdowney717 · May 25, 2018

Douggg said:
What part are you reading "the dead" in that passage?

The 'dead' would be only those physically dead who died in the Lord Jesus who He gathers from one end of heaven to the other, They are gathered to come back to be resurrected with glorified bodies at His return, second coming. Currently when a believer dies they go to be where Christ is seated, that means to heaven in their spirits, absent from the body present with the Lord.

The gathering from the four winds are those believers who are alive and remain on the earth at His second coming. The four winds, east, west, north, south all usually refer to winds that blow over the earth. They are those who are scattered abroad who Jesus gathers together as one. Christ unites all believers in Him, literally, both those on earth and those in Heaven, into one flock, with Him as our one Shepherd, giving them glorified bodies, and so shall we always from thence on be with the Lord.

Caiaphas also prophesied Christ does this, gathering all the children of God scattered abroad into one.

John 11:48-52 New King James Version (NKJV)
48 If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.”

49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for [a]us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.” 51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

claninja · May 25, 2018

DavidPT said:
Before you can ask those things you first need to be able to answer the following things.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Obviously at this point Christ is no longer in heaven.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Obviously these are some of His enemies and that they are not even defeated yet, not until Christ first leaves heaven then confronts these face to face.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Peter, in NON apocalyptic and NON symbolic language states that Jesus is in heaven until his enemies are made a footstool

Paul, in NON apocalyptic and NON symbolic language, states that the last enemy to be defeated is death, which occurs at his coming.

Revelation, an apocalyptic and symbolic book, states that Jesus comes out of heaven on a white horse and strikes down the nations using a sword that he holds with his mouth. Then satan is bound for 1000 years, while only those who did not worship the beast are resurrected (death defeated) and reign with Christ 1000 years, then the final resurrection (death defeated) occurs and satan is destroyed.

DavidPT said:
So how does Christ accomplish these things without even leaving heaven in order to do so

By sending his angels
matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

DavidPT said:
How can verse 20 and 21 possibly be fulfilled apart from the 2nd coming?

Sending armies as he did in the OT
Matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

Or maybe, Jesus really isn't swinging his head around cutting people down with a sword that he holds in his mouth, maybe its symbolic of something else:
Hebrew 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart

DavidPT said:
How can the 2nd coming not involve literally physically leaving heaven?

God used the assyrians to destroy samaria, Look how the prophecy is worded:
Micah 1:4 Look! The Lord is coming from his dwelling place; he comes down and treads on the heights of the earth.

Look at the language David uses to show God's defeat of his enemies and Saul
2 Samuel 22:1, 10-11 1David sang to the Lord the words of this song when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul.
He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet. He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soaredd on the wings of the wind.

There are many more examples of God coming down from heaven to defeat his enemies in the OT. That's why it is important to understand the language of the OT when reading the NT.

DavidPT said:
How can death be defeated while those in verse 21 would still be physically alive until Christ kills them when He returns?

DavidPT said:
Obviously the GTWJ is meaning a time post that of verse 21 above. Because if it isn't, that means these will never be resurrected nor stand in judgment at the GWTJ if that judgment has preceded their deaths.
The last enemy death can't be destroyed before the time of the GWTJ.

According to Jesus, the great throne Judgment occurs at his coming: Matthew 16 and 25.

Maybe Revelation should be interpreted through the lens of the OT, Gospels, and epistles, and not on its own.

Jesus will raise up believers on the last day
John 6:40 For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Jesus will condemn non believers on the last day
John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day

Does Jesus mention a resurrection before the resurrection on the last day?

What is the 1st resurrection?

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