Jewish naming of YHWH

DamianWarS

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You're not reading the context of the surrounding passages, he's not calling himself God otherwise he'd have been charged and convicted of heresy right there in the temple.

This passage that you used in response to the new covenant doesn't even apply and has absolutely nothing to do with it.

this is a digressed topic start a new thread if you want to talk about this.
 
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DamianWarS

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Nevertheless it would save a great deal of theological/philosophical time if it was understood that the starting point for considering the identity of God is simply "I AM".

I agree that using "I AM" as the identity of God is still appropriate and more useful in dialog.
 
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Daniel9v9

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False. The name YHWH is never used in the Greek. I know; I read the New Testament in Greek. Even in Old Testament quotes where the Hebrew uses YHWH, the New Testament uses Kurios = Lord.

I assume that you are a Jehovah's Witness. The Jehovah's Witness "bible" changes the New Testament so that some uses of the word Kurios (the ones not referring to Jesus) are changed to "Jehovah."

No, that's not what I mean and I'm not a Jehovah's Witness - I'm orthodox Lutheran. I'm referring to John's usage of "ego eimi" which is the Greek equivalent of YHWH. In the Gospel of John, he records Jesus saying "I AM" seven times, which is very significant to understanding the person and works of Christ; his human nature and divine nature.

You can read all about it here:
Ego eimi - Wikipedia
 
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Radagast

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No, that's not what I mean and I'm not a Jehovah's Witness - I'm orthodox Lutheran. I'm referring to John's usage of "ego eimi" which is the Greek equivalent of YHWH.

The phrase egо̄ eimi is a reference to Exodus 3:14, and it's a claim to divinity, but it's not "the Greek equivalent of YHWH." You can see that it isn't, because it's not used in Old Testament quotes where the Hebrew original has YHWH.

Exodus 3:14 in Greek says: egо̄ eimi Ho О̄n ... Ho О̄n apestalke me pros humas (I am THE ONE WHO IS ... THE ONE WHO IS has sent me to you). The Hebrew original does not use YHWH.
 
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Grip Docility

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Matthew 26:28

Jeremiah 31:31

What do these two passages mean to you?

Zechariah 3 (Zechariah 3:9 especially)

Matthew 15:24

Matthew 9:13

John 13:34

John 6:63-66

Matthew 23

John 21:17

John 19:28-30 (focus on the bitter or sour wine, followed by fulfilled and finished)

Matthew 5:17-20

Matthew 15:26-28

I could keep going, but that is sufficient for now.

Ya in Da-Nile bout dat NEW WINE, Mon.
 
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Shek

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this is a digressed topic start a new thread if you want to talk about this.

God of the New Covenant.

I guess that you completely forgot that this is YOUR TOPIC that you brought up?

So if you can't answer the question below, a simple "I have no idea where I read God of the New Covenant, cuz it's not in the NT bible written by the witnesses"....will suffice.

Can you show me a passage in the NT that was authored by a witness of Jesus ministry quoting him talking about the "New Covenant"?
 
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Daniel9v9

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The phrase egо̄ eimi is a reference to Exodus 3:14, and it's a claim to divinity, but it's not "the Greek equivalent of YHWH." You can see that it isn't, because it's not used in Old Testament quotes where the Hebrew original has YHWH.

Exodus 3:14 in Greek says: egо̄ eimi Ho О̄n ... Ho О̄n apestalke me pros humas (I am THE ONE WHO IS ... THE ONE WHO IS has sent me to you). The Hebrew original does not use YHWH.

Many would disagree with you there. Read Wikipedia:
"In Protestant commentaries it is often stated that "whenever John reports Jesus as saying ego eimi, a claim to deity is implicit." In commentaries the English "I am" is sometimes capitalised "I AM" to demonstrate a connection with how the English Bibles often capitalize words where the Hebrew text has the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), e.g. as the use of "LORD" in the King James Version. For example; "These mighty words come from the Greek words ego eimi, which is more accurately translated, "I AM!". This is also found in some Catholic commentaries. This connection is made because it is assumed that ego eimi is related to I am that I am or Hebrew Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh in Exodus 3:14."
 
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Radagast

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Many would disagree with you there. Read Wikipedia:
"In Protestant commentaries it is often stated that "whenever John reports Jesus as saying ego eimi, a claim to deity is implicit."

That is actually exactly what I said. My words were "The phrase egо̄ eimi is a reference to Exodus 3:14, and it's a claim to divinity."

However, egо̄ eimi is not "the Greek equivalent of YHWH," and is not used in Old Testament quotes where the Hebrew original has YHWH.

I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding me or deliberately misrepresenting me, but I am sure that further conversation would be pointless.
 
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Daniel9v9

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That is actually exactly what I said. My words were "The phrase egо̄ eimi is a reference to Exodus 3:14, and it's a claim to divinity."

However, egо̄ eimi is not "the Greek equivalent of YHWH," and is not used in Old Testament quotes where the Hebrew original has YHWH.

I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding me or deliberately misrepresenting me, but I am sure that further conversation would be pointless.

Well, now. Many hold that theologically, as intended by John, they are equivalent. But sure, I'll leave it. :)
 
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Anand Prabhu Antony

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Why is it that the Jews do not use YHWH?

They claim it is too sacred.

But they are told to "proclaim his name" in Isaiah 12:4 and to call upon it in Psalms 105:1, so who came up with the idea of not saying Yahweh's name? It cannot have come from YHWH himself, as He told them to proclaim his name and I am unaware of any point in the Bible where the Jews are told (by Yahweh) to refer to Yahweh as "Adonai".

So what is going on here, and more importantly WHO thought they could countermand Yahweh himself?
Kindly refer this below website for a good understanding and then read below my explanation...
Did he say AHYH (ahayah) or YHWH (Yahawah)?

In a short glimse from the above website, I can understand this: "The one who is eternal and existing always" is the meaning of His name, and He is our GOD. The One who is Existing spoke to Moses and said that He is GOD.

[Even in Daniel 7:9, says that "Ancient One took His seat" -Complete Jewish bible]. what we can understand from the meaning "Ancient One"? The one who is Existing from the uncountable time.

[Job said "the number of His years is uncountable" -Job 36:26], which means He is the Ancient one, the One who is existing from the uncountable time.

Psalms 90:2 (CJB)
"....from eternity past to eternity future you are God".
***note: eternity past to eternity future***

So, what we can understand is: the everlasting one, the eternal one, the Ancient one, the one who is existing is our GOD's name.

[Isaiah 43:13 (CJB)
Since days began, I have been He. No one can deliver from my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?”]
***note: "Since days began" he is Existing..***

Pslams 93:2
"Your throne was established long ago;
you have existed forever"

The one word that strikes frequently in common is the base word "Exist"
This was the thing our GOD conveyed to Moses in a sentence.

Isaiah 63:16
"...for you are our Father. Even if Abraham were not to know us, and Isra’el were not to acknowledge us, you, ADONAI, are our father,
Our Redeemer of Old is your name..."

How did our Lord Jesus Christ called GOD?

In John 17:6, Lord Jesus Christ said,
“I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.

So, what name do our Lord Jesus revealed to us?

Jesus called GOD as Father or Holy Father
[Ref: Luke 10:21, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth..."
John 17:11, "Holy Father"]

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’



And How do Cherubs are praising GOD in heaven?
Revelation 4:8
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God All-Powerful, the one who was and the one who is and the one who is coming!”

The existing one or the Ancient one is the one who was, and the one who is and the one who is coming, he is our God, the Holy Father.

Hebrews 11:6
"...for the one who approaches God must believe that He Exists.."

Revelation 19:4
The twenty-four elders and the four living beings fell down and worshipped God, sitting on the throne, and said," Amen! Hallelu-Yah

Psalms 68:4
"Sing to God, sing praises to his name. Lift up a song to the rider on the clouds—his name is Yah— and rejoice before him."
 
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DamianWarS

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I guess that you completely forgot that this is YOUR TOPIC that you brought up?

So if you can't answer the question below, a simple "I have no idea where I read God of the New Covenant, cuz it's not in the NT bible written by the witnesses"....will suffice.

Can you show me a passage in the NT that was authored by a witness of Jesus ministry quoting him talking about the "New Covenant"?

Again digressed topic. I brought it up sub point but the larger point was in line with the OP. Perhaps it would be better to reword your question so it still fits the OP.

I'm not going to continue this banter as it is contributing to wayward topics
 
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Grip Docility

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Matthew 26:28

Jeremiah 31:31

What do these two passages mean to you?

Zechariah 3 (Zechariah 3:9 especially)

Matthew 15:24

Matthew 9:13

John 13:34

John 6:63-66

Matthew 23

John 21:17

John 19:28-30 (focus on the bitter or sour wine, followed by fulfilled and finished)

Matthew 5:17-20

Matthew 15:26-28

I could keep going, but that is sufficient for now.

Ya in Da-Nile bout dat NEW WINE, Mon.

You haven't answered my question.

Matthew 26:28

Jeremiah 31:31

What do these two passages mean to you?

Just explain in your own words.

I answered with supporting scripture. You are deflecting with deceptive run around and when you’ve been scripturally cornered by others, you propagate false decimation of the passage.

You’ve eradicated 14 books of the New Testament by considering Paul a raging heretic. You've discredited John’s writing of Jesus being the Alpha and the Omega, by saying Jesus isn’t the Alpha and Omega, because John saw and recorded that (as if he made an error, under Devine inspiration)

You specified the Gospels Didn’t have Jesus mentioning the new covenant and I said this in response to your exact words:

Curious...

Can you show me a passage in the NT that was authored by a witness of Jesus ministry quoting him talking about the "New Covenant"?

It would have to come from one of these testimonies.

Matthew, John, James, Peter, Jude.

Sure, but Jesus spoke in parable and you have to grasp the grape verses. :)

They’re Grrrrrrrrr-ape. (Tony the tiger joke, Frosted Flakes)


————- NOW,

I haven’t even begun to unload Scriptural ammunition from the Gospels about the new covenant.

Either you acknowledge scripture as God (The Central Character in the Biblical Narrative, hence John 5:39) breathed and you start proofing scripture with ALL scripture, or you show that you are simply here to argue your perspective and make God’s Round Peg Revelation try to fit into your square peg box of ideas.

You answered with scripture and I responded with scripture. Can you refute that the scriptures I quoted have to do with the new covenant?

Or, more specifically, could you please list the exact Translation of scripture that is in English (preferably) and the books of the Bible you actually read and believe as inspired by God and irrefutable in debate?

Because, I sense a consistent inability to be consistent on your part, in theological matters.
 
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Grip Docility

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This is a fair point to make about this specific occurrence of this statement.

The specific "before Abraham was, I am" statement occurs in John 8. If it truly were a heretical claim being made, Jesus would be openly arrested long before John 18 (when he is arrested). The Pharisees would not have bothered investigating the healing in John 9:13-34 but could have easily and openly convicted Jesus of Heresy on the statement in John 8 alone.

But such is not what this thread is about so could we not take that line any further please.

Jesus was almost stoned, was looked for to be arrested and many other things in direct relation to His statements like this.

Scripture explains He wasn’t because it wasn’t His time, over and over.

How is that fair?
 
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Inkfingers

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Jesus was almost stoned, was looked for to be arrested and many other things in direct relation to His statements like this.

Scripture explains He wasn’t because it wasn’t His time, over and over.

How is that fair?

If the Pharisees thought this was heresy they would have hunted him down, not let him preach for another 10 chapters.
 
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Grip Docility

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If the Pharisees thought this was heresy they would have hunted him down, not let him preach for another 10 chapters.

You know well that scripture shows them about to Stone Him and They do hunt for Him, but they know they have to take Him secretly to avoid showing their abuse of Jewish Law!

You would have to have closed your eyes during the Gospels to not catch this repetitiously occurring.

Sincerely, “And they took up stones” should be enough, but there are many other places where they want to Silence Jesus for for claiming to be God and scripture specifies so.

Do you read entire books carefully and follow them with notes?

It can be a challenge to actually read the Bible for yourself, once you’ve canned canned theology.
 
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Inkfingers

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You know well that scripture shows them about to Stone Him and They do hunt for Him, but they know they have to take Him secretly to avoid showing their abuse of Jewish Law!

They try to stone him then, openly, so no need to try and hide any future attempt to do so.

But after that point they in effect drop the charge because he preaches for another 10 chapters and the Pharisees don't act.

But as I have already said, this is NOT the subject of this thread and I will not be drawn into it.
 
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