Salvation is already done.

EternallyKeptByJesus

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Salvation is already done.





This is encouragement to those who know the true Gospel of Jesus which is salvation apart from works. I have no time to waste with the wisdom of men that will throw away God’s word using man made wisdom to dismiss what they don’t want to believe. So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation.



Salvation is a gift. (Eph 2:8 You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God.) You did not save yourself, well if you did not save yourself that in and of itself tells us that salvation has nothing to do with what we do in order to obtain it outside of believing it. Anything that you have to do in order to receive a gift makes it a trade and not a gift. Therefore this teaching of repent of sin (which does not exist in the Bible) in order to get salvation is a lie of the devil. Furthermore, how can it be that one would have to turn from sin to obtain something already done and given.



God was in Christ, was is past tense; making peace, when was that done, when Jesus died and rose again. Salvation was already done before we was even born. (2Co 5:19 I mean that God was in Christ, making peace between the world and himself. In Christ, God did not hold people guilty for their sins. And he gave us this message of peace to tell people.)



Now consider who God is. (1Jn 4:8 ...God is love.) God is love, so if we can find a definition of what love is we can then come to understand not only the person of God but also is nature and character and what to expect from him. (1 Cor 4-7: 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.)



Pay close attention to love is not self seeking. Therefore God is not seeking for anyone to do works be it for salvation or to prove your salvation. God is not seeking anything for himself from you other than just have faith in him. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Now that is the pinnacle of one of the greatest statements we could grab a hold of. All our sins are paid for and erased past, present and future. Love keeps no record of wrongs. When was that done, at the cross. And to whom was this given, to the world (Jn 3:16). The fact it was done for the world and before time began then every sin was dealt with and erased to those who will believe.



Love always protects. Love is protecting your eternal life. Once by faith we have accepted the free gift of salvation that was already done, then love comes in and protects you. What is love going to protect you from? Everything that comes to harm the object of one’s love. And what would be the greatest harm that could ever come to anyone, to be cast into hell. Therefore, God’s plan of salvation included the greatest protection plan, to preserve all of His children unto His heavenly kingdom.
 

SkyWriting

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Salvation is already done.





This is encouragement to those who know the true Gospel of Jesus which is salvation apart from works. I have no time to waste with the wisdom of men that will throw away God’s word using man made wisdom to dismiss what they don’t want to believe. So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation.



Salvation is a gift. (Eph 2:8 You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God.) You did not save yourself, well if you did not save yourself that in and of itself tells us that salvation has nothing to do with what we do in order to obtain it outside of believing it. Anything that you have to do in order to receive a gift makes it a trade and not a gift. Therefore this teaching of repent of sin (which does not exist in the Bible) in order to get salvation is a lie of the devil. Furthermore, how can it be that one would have to turn from sin to obtain something already done and given.



God was in Christ, was is past tense; making peace, when was that done, when Jesus died and rose again. Salvation was already done before we was even born. (2Co 5:19 I mean that God was in Christ, making peace between the world and himself. In Christ, God did not hold people guilty for their sins. And he gave us this message of peace to tell people.)



Now consider who God is. (1Jn 4:8 ...God is love.) God is love, so if we can find a definition of what love is we can then come to understand not only the person of God but also is nature and character and what to expect from him. (1 Cor 4-7: 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.)



Pay close attention to love is not self seeking. Therefore God is not seeking for anyone to do works be it for salvation or to prove your salvation. God is not seeking anything for himself from you other than just have faith in him. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Now that is the pinnacle of one of the greatest statements we could grab a hold of. All our sins are paid for and erased past, present and future. Love keeps no record of wrongs. When was that done, at the cross. And to whom was this given, to the world (Jn 3:16). The fact it was done for the world and before time began then every sin was dealt with and erased to those who will believe.



Love always protects. Love is protecting your eternal life. Once by faith we have accepted the free gift of salvation that was already done, then love comes in and protects you. What is love going to protect you from? Everything that comes to harm the object of one’s love. And what would be the greatest harm that could ever come to anyone, to be cast into hell. Therefore, God’s plan of salvation included the greatest protection plan, to preserve all of His children unto His heavenly kingdom.


God does not experience time, so there is no works or salvation "timeline"
that includes "this, then that". God experiences all time at once.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation.
Right. Likewise, so many waste their time , even all their life, believing in u.r. (universal reconciliation).... either way, if not trusting and relying on Yahweh, perhaps eternity is wasted too....
 
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Kevin Snow

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You went too far when you said that the bible doesn't teach us to repent of our sins. Ever heard what Christ himself said?

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. ~Luke 13:5

So you are misunderstanding the place of God's love in our lives. It doesn't happen until we receive Christ's mercy THROUGH faith in him as the Son of God, that he died for our sins and rose again.

It's this complete picture from where we stood before knowing him, in sin, to how we arrive in his love, through faith, that DEMANDS repentance.

Do you understand this:

But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
~2 Timothy 2:19

So yes, repentance from our sins is a CONTINUAL doctrine of grace through faith in Jesus Christ as it says:

Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. ~Luke 3:8

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. ~John 15:16

So YES repentance is the call of God on our lives as Christians so that we may continue in his kindness!

Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. ~Romans 11:22

Why did Paul ask so many times whether his disciples had believed in vain?

and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. ~1 Corinthians 15:2

No it is not the whole counsel you are providing here but a part of it. If you don't continue in repentance then you are the 5 UNWISE virgins who did not bring extra oil with them. But the 5 WISE were the ones who did not trust in their own righteousness, the oil which was in their lamps and so were saved.

Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die. ~Ezekiel 33:13

So due to all this, let us press on to know the Lord. Repenting of our sins all along the way!

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” ~John 8:12
 
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BobRyan

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God does not experience time, so there is no works or salvation "timeline"
that includes "this, then that". God experiences all time at once.

I am one of the few people who are not God -- so I wouldn't know what He experiences at once. :)
 
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razzelflabben

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One of the things that bothers me so much on this topic of discussion is when people inflate good works into something about works righteousness rather than to simply trust what scripture says about working with our hands.

Before I post a lot of scripture let me tell you a story. Because of some sin issues in the church and because that was combined with health issues, I was left with "idol" hands when it came to serving, at least for a season. I became intimate with the need for something to do....something that God Himself gave us to do...something we are told to do...something that threads like this inflate into works righteousness when in fact, it has nothing to do with our salvation other than living it out in service before God and man....It would be incredible if once in awhile people would be honest with one another on this matter and actually discussion the topic rather than just throw stones at one another. Oh well, the OP did not ask for discussion, so I will post many passages and then move onto some thread that wants to learn from one another as steel sharpens steel. Proverbs 27
1. Ecclesiastes 10:15-18 The toil of fools wearies them; they do not know the way to town. Woe to the land whose king was a servant and whose princes feast in the morning. Blessed is the land whose king is of noble birth and whose princes eat at a proper time— for strength and not for drunkenness. Through laziness, the rafters sag; because of idle hands, the house leaks.

2. Proverbs 12:24-28 The diligent hand will rule, but laziness will lead to forced labor. Anxiety in a man’s heart weighs it down, but a good word cheers it up. A righteous man is careful in dealing with his neighbor, but the ways of the wicked lead them astray. A lazy man doesn’t roast his game, but to a diligent man, his wealth is precious. There is life in the path of righteousness, but another path leads to death.

3. Ecclesiastes 4:2-6 So I concluded that the dead are better off than the living. But most fortunate of all are those who are not yet born. For they have not seen all the evil that is done under the sun. Then I observed that most people are motivated to success because they envy their neighbors. But this, too, is meaningless—like chasing the wind. “Fools fold their idle hands, leading them to ruin.” And yet, “Better to have one handful with quietness than two handfuls with hard work and chasing the wind.”

4. Proverbs 18:9 He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster. The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe. A rich man’s wealth is his fortified city; in his imagination it is like a high wall.

5. Ecclesiastes 11:4-6 Farmers who wait for perfect weather never plant. If they watch every cloud, they never harvest. Just as you cannot understand the path of the wind or the mystery of a tiny baby growing in its mother’s womb, so you cannot understand the activity of God, who does all things. Plant your seed in the morning and keep busy all afternoon, for you don’t know if profit will come from one activity or another–or maybe both.

6. Proverbs 10:2-8 Ill-gotten gains do not profit anyone, but righteousness rescues from death. The Lord will not let the righteous go hungry, but He denies the wicked what they crave. Idle hands make one poor, but diligent hands bring riches. The son who gathers during summer is prudent; the son who sleeps during harvest is disgraceful. Blessings are on the head of the righteous, but the mouth of the wicked conceals violence. The remembrance of the righteous is a blessing, but the name of the wicked will rot. A wise heart accepts commands, but foolish lips will be destroyed.

7. Proverbs 21:24-26 Mockers are proud and haughty; they act with boundless arrogance. Despite their desires, the lazy will come to ruin, for their hands refuse to work. Some people are always greedy for more, but the godly love to give!


Too much sleep is bad.

8. Proverbs 19:15 Slothfulness casts into a deep sleep, and an idle person will suffer hunger.

9. Proverbs 24:32-34 Then I myself saw and my heart considered; I looked, and I took hold of instruction: A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands for rest, and your poverty will come running, and your lack like an armed warrior.

10. Proverbs 6:6-11 You lazy fool, look at an ant. Watch it closely; let it teach you a thing or two. Nobody has to tell it what to do. All summer it stores up food; at harvest it stockpiles provisions. So how long are you going to laze around doing nothing? How long before you get out of bed? A nap here, a nap there, a day off here, a day off there, sit back, take it easy—do you know what comes next? Just this: You can look forward to a dirt-poor life, poverty your permanent houseguest!


Advice

11. Ephesians 5:15-16 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil.

12. Proverbs 15:21 Foolishness brings joy to those with no sense; a sensible person stays on the right path.


A virtuous woman does not live in idleness.

13. Proverbs 31:24-30 “She makes linen garments and sells them and delivers belts to the merchants. She dresses with strength and nobility, and she smiles at the future. “She speaks with wisdom, and on her tongue there is tender instruction. She keeps a close eye on the conduct of her family, and she does not eat the bread of idleness. Her children and her husband stand up and bless her. In addition, he sings her praises, by saying, Many women have done noble work, but you have surpassed them all!’ “Charm is deceptive, and beauty evaporates, but a woman who has the fear of the Lord should be praised.

14. Proverbs 31:14-22 She is like merchant ships. She brings her food from far away. She wakes up while it is still dark and gives food to her family and portions of food to her female slaves. “She picks out a field and buys it. She plants a vineyard from the profits she has earned. She puts on strength like a belt and goes to work with energy. She sees that she is making a good profit. Her lamp burns late at night. “She puts her hands on the distaff, and her fingers hold a spindle. She opens her hands to oppressed people and stretches them out to needy people. She does not fear for her family when it snows because her whole family has a double layer of clothing. She makes quilts for herself. Her clothes are made of linen and purple cloth.


Sin

15. 1 Timothy 5:11-13 But do not include younger widows in the list; because when their desires make them want to marry, they turn away from Christ, and so become guilty of breaking their earlier promise to him. They also learn to waste their time in going around from house to house; but even worse, they learn to be gossips and busybodies, talking of things they should not.

16. 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 When we were with you, we told you that if a man does not work, he should not eat. We hear that some are not working. But they are spending their time trying to see what others are doing. Our words to such people are that they should be quiet and go to work. They should eat their own food. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ we say this.


We can’t afford to be idle in a dying world.

17. Luke 10:1-4 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.

18. Mark 16:14-15 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

19. Matthew 28:19-20 Go and make followers of all the nations. Baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Teach them to do all the things I have told you. And I am with you always, even to the end of the world.”

20. Ezekiel 33:7-9 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the people of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.


Reminders

21. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 And we urge you, brothers,admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all.

22. Hebrews 6:11-14 But we want each of you to continue to be diligent to the very end, in order to give full assurance to your hope. Then, instead of being lazy, you will imitate those who are inheriting the promises through faith and patience. For when God made his promise to Abraham, he swore an oath by himself, since he had no one greater to swear by. He said, “I will certainly bless you and give you many descendants.

23. Proverbs 10:25-27 The wicked are destroyed when trouble comes, but good people stand strong forever. Sending a lazy person to do anything is as irritating as vinegar on your teeth or smoke in your eyes. Respect for the Lord will add years to your life, but the wicked will have their lives cut short.


Examples

24. 1 Corinthians 4:10-13 We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. We have become the scum of the earth, the garbage of the world–right up to this moment.

25. Romans 16:11-14 Greet Herodion, my fellow Jew. Greet those in the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord. Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord. Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too. Greet Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermes, Patrobas, Hermas and the other brothers and sisters with them.

Oh and while I am talking about the OP what about the passages that talk about God listening to the righteous man....yet the OPer does not believe that a believer should be righteous...how then do you expect to have a relationship with God?
 
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Kenny'sID

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So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation.

What do you refer to as works? Is keeping from sinning works? Of course it isn't/far from it. Sin is something we aren't supposed to do, works is something we do. But people love to deceptively tie the two together so they can call it works, then say no works are required, so in turn, we can sin because our not sinning is not doing works and works are not required, meaning now we can have a lack of works and can still go to heaven, Hallelujah! Of course the word of God was perverted to reach what would be an oddball conclusion to even a non believer. Those who wish to sin and not do as God wants them to do, are completely oblivious to the confusing of scripture it takes to convince themselves such a thing is true.

Can someone please tell me how our not sinning is "works" or anything even close? OP?

For those of you who just automatically see that as a backwards way of thinking....good for you, you are on the right path. Oh, and that's not all, it get's much more disappointing for the "We don't need no works" crowd

Now lets move on to "actual" works and the comment:

So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation.

Will you waste your time asking Jesus.. "‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?"

Or to those who just can't see, "Lord when did we not do our works" (quote is my explanation of the prior

And to those who feel works are not necessary, how do you think Jesus will answer? Maybe something along the lines of...

Matt 25:41-46 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

And before anyone tries to twist that which is very very clear and easy to understand, remember the very last few verses of the bible, and don't make a bad situation worse.
 
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Kevin Snow

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Oh and while I am talking about the OP what about the passages that talk about God listening to the righteous man....yet the OPer does not believe that a believer should be righteous...how then do you expect to have a relationship with God?

That's it in a nutshell. How many scriptures in the New Testament teach that we are to do good works?

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. ~Ephesians 2:10

and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. ~1 Timothy 5:10

They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, ~1 Timothy 6:18

but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. ~1 Timothy 2:10

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, ~Titus 2:7

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people ~Titus 3:8

And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful. ~Titus 3:14

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, ~Hebrews 10:24

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. ~Matthew 5:16

that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. ~2 Timothy 3:17

who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. ~Titus 2:14

If you are not zealous for good works then maybe you are not one of his people.
 
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razzelflabben

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What do you refer to as works? Is keeping from sinning works? Of course it isn't/far from it. Sin is something we aren't supposed to do, works is something we do. But people love to deceptively tie the two together so they can call it works, then say no works are required, so in turn, we can sin because our not sinning is not doing works and works are not required, meaning now we can have a lack of works and can still go to heaven, Hallelujah! Of course the word of God was perverted to reach what would be an oddball conclusion to even a non believer. Those who wish to sin and not do as God wants them to do, are completely oblivious to the confusing of scripture it takes to convince themselves such a thing is true.
look at the passages I presented for evidence of what I personally believe works are...as I said, if people stopped judging others and started listening you might just become surprised by what is really being said.
Can someone please tell me how our not sinning is "works" or anything even close? OP?

For those of you who just automatically see that as a backwards way of thinking....good for you, you are on the right path. Oh, and that's not all, it get's much more disappointing for the "We don't need no works" crowd

Now lets move on to "actual" works and the comment:



Will you waste your time asking Jesus.. "‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?"

Or to those who just can't see, "Lord when did we not do our works" (quote is my explanation of the prior

And to those who feel works are not necessary, how do you think Jesus will answer? Maybe something along the lines of...

Matt 25:41-46 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

And before anyone tries to twist that which is very very clear and easy to understand, remember the very last few verses of the bible, and don't make a bad situation worse.
I would hate to stand before God on judgment day and have Him ask me what I did to show my faith and Love to Him and all I could proudly boast is that "I believe in the salvation that said I didn't have to do anything to show my Love including but not limited to fleeing temptations."
 
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Kenny'sID

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look at the passages I presented for evidence of what I personally believe works are...as I said, if people stopped judging others and started listening you might just become surprised by what is really being said.

Not sure why you'd resort to the "judgmental"
card so early on. I only disagree with the concept of the title of this post and am trying to prevent the cancer that has no validity to it from spreading. I already know what the OP is saying, I've heard it enough, we all have.

On the other hand if you have something you feel I should read, point me to it, and I'll be happy to take a look, or just answer the question you quoted on how not sinning is works? Seems that would be a more direct way of making me understand, by answering the exact question and using scripture to show your answer true. :)
 
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razzelflabben

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Not sure why you'd resort to the "judgmental"
card so early on. I only disagree with the concept of the title of this post and am trying to prevent the cancer that has no validity to it from spreading. I already know what the OP is saying, I've heard it enough, we all have.
my apologies if you thought that comment was directed at you it was a general comment meant for everyone who feels it better to twist what others say, twist scripture and otherwise judge people without ever taking time to hear what they are saying. It was in no way was it intended to be directed at you or anyone else individually.....I am truly sorry you mistook my comment personally.
On the other hand if you have something you feel I should read, point me to it, and I'll be happy to take a look, or just answer the question you quoted on how not sinning is works? Seems that would be a more direct way of making me understand, by answering the exact question and using scripture to show your answer true. :)
The OP requested that there be no discussion, if you really want to hear what I and I know others on these boards really believe we can start another thread or PM discuss it but doing it here is off topic, I was just so fed up with the false accusations that I hear everytime the topic comes up that I posted and maybe that is where I went wrong in the first place.
 
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Kenny'sID

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look at the passages I presented for evidence of what I personally believe works are...as I said, if people stopped judging others and started listening you might just become surprised by what is really being said. I would hate to stand before God on judgment day and have Him ask me what I did to show my faith and Love to Him and all I could proudly boast is that "I believe in the salvation that said I didn't have to do anything to show my Love including but not limited to fleeing temptations."

I read some of your post but I didn't see where it directly addressed my question, so as I say, best to directly answer so I don't have to read all that and hope to find what you evidently are saying relates to my question.

I still disagree strongly with the OP, and now know less than before about what exactly you are saying to me. :)
 
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Kenny'sID

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my apologies if you thought that comment was directed at you it was a general comment meant for everyone who feels it better to twist what others say, twist scripture and otherwise judge people without ever taking time to hear what they are saying. It was in no way was it intended to be directed at you or anyone else individually.....I am truly sorry you mistook my comment personally. The OP requested that there be no discussion, if you really want to hear what I and I know others on these boards really believe we can start another thread or PM discuss it but doing it here is off topic, I was just so fed up with the false accusations that I hear everytime the topic comes up that I posted and maybe that is where I went wrong in the first place.

My mistake.

The OP requested that there be no discussion, if you really want to hear what I and I know others on these boards really believe we can start another thread or PM discuss it but doing it here is off topic, I was just so fed up with the false accusations that I hear everytime the topic comes up that I posted and maybe that is where I went wrong in the first place.

The OP has posted this in a debate forum, and I guess he just doesn't want to hear the truth. So, not sure the site will even honor his request, but that's fine, you can start another thread if you wish, but best I can tell my question is going to remain unanswered because not sinning is simply not works...the comment in itself sounds weird. LOL If I said that to someone on the street that had no idea of this site or this conversation, they would react with "what!? what does that even mean, not sinning is works" :)
 
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dqhall

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Salvation is already done.





This is encouragement to those who know the true Gospel of Jesus which is salvation apart from works. I have no time to waste with the wisdom of men that will throw away God’s word using man made wisdom to dismiss what they don’t want to believe. So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation.



Salvation is a gift. (Eph 2:8 You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God.) You did not save yourself, well if you did not save yourself that in and of itself tells us that salvation has nothing to do with what we do in order to obtain it outside of believing it. Anything that you have to do in order to receive a gift makes it a trade and not a gift. Therefore this teaching of repent of sin (which does not exist in the Bible) in order to get salvation is a lie of the devil. Furthermore, how can it be that one would have to turn from sin to obtain something already done and given.



God was in Christ, was is past tense; making peace, when was that done, when Jesus died and rose again. Salvation was already done before we was even born. (2Co 5:19 I mean that God was in Christ, making peace between the world and himself. In Christ, God did not hold people guilty for their sins. And he gave us this message of peace to tell people.)



Now consider who God is. (1Jn 4:8 ...God is love.) God is love, so if we can find a definition of what love is we can then come to understand not only the person of God but also is nature and character and what to expect from him. (1 Cor 4-7: 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.)



Pay close attention to love is not self seeking. Therefore God is not seeking for anyone to do works be it for salvation or to prove your salvation. God is not seeking anything for himself from you other than just have faith in him. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Now that is the pinnacle of one of the greatest statements we could grab a hold of. All our sins are paid for and erased past, present and future. Love keeps no record of wrongs. When was that done, at the cross. And to whom was this given, to the world (Jn 3:16). The fact it was done for the world and before time began then every sin was dealt with and erased to those who will believe.



Love always protects. Love is protecting your eternal life. Once by faith we have accepted the free gift of salvation that was already done, then love comes in and protects you. What is love going to protect you from? Everything that comes to harm the object of one’s love. And what would be the greatest harm that could ever come to anyone, to be cast into hell. Therefore, God’s plan of salvation included the greatest protection plan, to preserve all of His children unto His heavenly kingdom.
John the Baptist preached people should produce works worthy of repentance.
Matthew 3:7 (WEB) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance! 9 Don’t think to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ for I tell you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

If God offers me a chance to repent, should I take it? Should I not wear out my welcome by doing nothing all day? If God wants me to read a Gospel today, I ought to attempt it.
 
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razzelflabben

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I read some of your post but I didn't see where it directly addressed my question, so as I say, best to directly answer so I don't have to read all that and hope to find what you evidently are saying relates to my question.

I still disagree strongly with the OP, and now know less than before about what exactly you are saying to me. :)
you asked me what I thought works were...so direct answer...as I have studied works, as in the expression of our Love and appreciation for God's saving grace...works are those things that are righteous. The real question is how we want to define righteousness...the short answer is that which is right but I think that definition leaves a lot to be desired and I haven't yet figured out a better definition...maybe obedience but then again that leaves out many things in most peoples minds like helping one another even though that would be consistent with obedience most people don't see it that way which leaves that definition somewhat wanting....we could define it as Love but then again we have the same problem of people not understanding what it mean....we could also define righteousness as living in the power of the indwelling HS which is maybe my favorite but again, way too many people would misunderstand.

So there is the direct answer, does it help?
 
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razzelflabben

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My mistake.



The OP has posted this in a debate forum, and I guess he just doesn't want to hear the truth. So, not sure the site will even honor his request, but that's fine, you can start another thread if you wish, but best I can tell my question is going to remain unanswered because not sinning is simply not works...the comment in itself sounds weird. LOL If I said that to someone on the street that had no idea of this site or this conversation, they would react with "what!? what does that even mean, not sinning is works" :)
maybe a question worthy of our time and energy would be what is righteousness and how is it related to good works which btw, we are told in scripture to be doing without growing weary...if we grow weary of doing good works (whatever we decide they are) what does that say about our relationship with the living God?
 
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bcbsr

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You went too far when you said that the bible doesn't teach us to repent of our sins. Ever heard what Christ himself said?

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. ~Luke 13:5

So you are misunderstanding the place of God's love in our lives. It doesn't happen until we receive Christ's mercy THROUGH faith in him as the Son of God, that he died for our sins and rose again.

It's this complete picture from where we stood before knowing him, in sin, to how we arrive in his love, through faith, that DEMANDS repentance.

Do you understand this:

But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
~2 Timothy 2:19

So yes, repentance from our sins is a CONTINUAL doctrine of grace through faith in Jesus Christ as it says:

Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. ~Luke 3:8

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. ~John 15:16

So YES repentance is the call of God on our lives as Christians so that we may continue in his kindness!

Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. ~Romans 11:22

Why did Paul ask so many times whether his disciples had believed in vain?

and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. ~1 Corinthians 15:2

No it is not the whole counsel you are providing here but a part of it. If you don't continue in repentance then you are the 5 UNWISE virgins who did not bring extra oil with them. But the 5 WISE were the ones who did not trust in their own righteousness, the oil which was in their lamps and so were saved.

Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die. ~Ezekiel 33:13

So due to all this, let us press on to know the Lord. Repenting of our sins all along the way!

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” ~John 8:12

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John5:24 It's a done deal! They have believed in vain who abandoned the gospel of salvation by faith apart from works, salvation as a free gift, for a salvation by works gospel, a salvation contingent upon one's performance. For such people abandon trust in Christ and rather trust in themselves, their own works to save them.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance" Eph 1:13,14

"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." 2Cor 1:21,22
 
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Kevin Snow

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"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John5:24 It's a done deal! They have believed in vain who abandoned the gospel of salvation by faith apart from works, salvation as a free gift, for a salvation by works gospel, a salvation contingent upon one's performance. For such people abandon trust in Christ and rather trust in themselves, their own works to save them.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance" Eph 1:13,14

"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." 2Cor 1:21,22

Yeah guy, we don't believe in SALVATION THROUGH WORKS. But AFTER you're saved are you lazy? Read our posts again.
 
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