Is it wrong for me to read the Talmudic and Kabbalah Scriptures?

Marvin Knox

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They are just fascinating reads
Fascinating?

Perhaps if you want to see how the other half lives as it were.

These things you are studying are the ideas of Christ rejecting Jews.

I suppose if a person wanted to read the writings of the likes of Stephen Hawking, Christopher Hitchens, or Richard Dawkins to better understand and refute the thinking of Atheists - there could be value in doing so.

But if it's to "learn" from them - it is extremely unwise to even have their writings around the house let alone study them.
 
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Invalidusername

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I do remember a missionary coming to my childhood church and talking about his studies of the Quran. He had studied that book but he did so for a reason. His ministry was to outreach towards Muslims and show them the fallacies in the Quran. I learned a lot of fascinating things. Unfortunately he died recently.

I think it is fine if it is within good reason. Are you trying to understand someone you are ministering to? Are you trying to understand how to better defend the Christian faith? Any good reason?

If not, then maybe you should avoid it. I know how tempting it is to read occult stuff out of fascination but trust me, this is NOT something to play around with. God be with you.
 
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JoeP222w

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This will require someone who is studied, As I've mentioned before, I like to study. I feel the more I learn the closer it could bring me to God. I discovered some time ago, The Ancient Jewish scriptures have answers to questions I've always wondered, For instance, the
Tetragrammaton teaches about The Origins of God. It also teaches that Satan used to be an angel called Samael and basically Samael is a prosecutor. It's not so much that he is evil. It's that he has a job as a prosecutor to do. I learned that Some of the Jewish teachings do seem to contradict what we as Christians are to believe in. However, It's fascinating to read because these scriptures are older than the new testament. They have answers to questions I've always wondered about.

I'm not looking for a simple yes-no answer. In my Eyes, What we believe in. Is literally based on this older religion, So I assume these scriptures are the truth. Should I continue this path of study?

It is ok for you to read such things, however, for the Christian, the Bible is the inerrant, infallible, all sufficient word of God. If any of those writing conflict with the Bible, then those writings are not the word of God.
 
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Randy777

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This will require someone who is studied, As I've mentioned before, I like to study. I feel the more I learn the closer it could bring me to God. I discovered some time ago, The Ancient Jewish scriptures have answers to questions I've always wondered, For instance, the
Tetragrammaton teaches about The Origins of God. It also teaches that Satan used to be an angel called Samael and basically Samael is a prosecutor. It's not so much that he is evil. It's that he has a job as a prosecutor to do. I learned that Some of the Jewish teachings do seem to contradict what we as Christians are to believe in. However, It's fascinating to read because these scriptures are older than the new testament. They have answers to questions I've always wondered about.

I'm not looking for a simple yes-no answer. In my Eyes, What we believe in. Is literally based on this older religion, So I assume these scriptures are the truth. Should I continue this path of study?
A reliable witness. Jesus=>He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Jesus=>He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jesus=>
It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
 
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gideon123

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BTW ... some lighr hearted remarks.

OP ... you mentioned the Jewish study of the Origins of God.

Really? REALLY???

As if human beings could ever be qualified to discuss such a thing. THe best physicist of our time, Stephen Hawking, changed his mind several times about the start of the Universe. How then could we ever contemplate something greater? We dont have the mental capacity to do it. Its like a group of ants trying to learn to play chess.

Also ... if there was an 'origin' to God, this directly implies that something greater than God previously existed. In other words ... it implies there is another God, greater than the one we worship. This puts us right back into the religion and mythology of the Romans .. a group of Gods warring with each other. Can you see how these inquiries can lead to faulty conclusions??

The Bible tells us that God is the Alpha and Omega. Endless, without beginning or end. The human mind cannot comprehend infinity, and it is better to simply accept the premise that God has no beginning and no end. IMO.

Blessings!!
 
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LoricaLady

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The Old Covenant describes God's dealing with our ancestors. It's just as much a part of salvation history as the New Covenant, and is the foundation on which it was built. It's worth our time to learn about all of God's dealings with humanity, not just one part.
Amen. So we're just supposed to ignore "Thou shalt not bow down to other gods" Pslam 23, Psalm 21, and on and on and on? No, that is not what Messiah taught. He said Heaven and earth would pass away before the slightest mark of the pen in the Old Testament was done away with.
 
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John the Ex-Baptist

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Sure, and it also includes that having sexual intercourse with a 3 year old is ok. Sorry to everyone for being so crass but it is in there and people need to be warned what they are opening themselves up to. Maybe things not written down were not actually from the Lord but contrived by men.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. I remember a few years ago, having a discussion on a forum I used to host, with a lady who was undergoing lessons from a rabbi. At the time I knew virtually nothing about modern Judaism, and couldn't understand where she was getting some of the stuff she was coming up with. When it came to light about her situation with the rabbi though, I was forced to begin to look into these things for myself, just in order to be able to Scriptural arguments against what she was saying.

When I first began to read about the "oral" Torah being the so called instruction that Moses was given that had not been recorded in writing, it began to dawn on me how potentially dangerous it all was. Maybe I wasn't the first, but it immediately hit me as being virtually identical to the RCC view of the equal authority of Scripture and apostolic traditions, which I do not believe is true where the apostlic tradition/doctrine is not one and the same as the New Testament writings we have in the canon of the Bible.

The true "rule of faith"—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.(From Catholic Answers website)

The bottom line is that, regardless of how strongly it may be denied, the "traditions" that are of the chosen few, become more powerfully adhered to than the written Word of God that has been revealed to all men. As some have said in this thread already, read the Talmud and you will begin to get an idea of the mentality of the Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day. But wasn't it that very fact that Jesus so often vehimently rebuked?

Mark 7:1-8 (ESV)
1 Now when the Pharisees gathered to him, with some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem,
2 they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed.
3 (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands properly, holding to the tradition of the elders,
4 and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.)
5 And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?”
6 And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”

My advice from personal experience, would be to never study what the Talmud has to say without an open Bible right next to it. If you are prepared to do that however, using the Bible as the rule by which everything is measured against, then you will reap the benefits greatly. For in virtually every page you will see mis-quotes and Scripture twisting like you've never seen it before, all to justify some of the most wicked perversions of the flesh you can stomach. Whilst at the same time pointing at you as the heretic in the room.

One other thing is this, also from experience. If you end up going toe to toe with a rabbi, keep it simple and stick to the core essentials of the faith. These guys have often been hearing the Talmud taught from infancy, and have stock rebuttals to the truth of the New Testament writings that can be very convincing indeed. I remember having my faith shaken to the core regarding the virgin birth, that took me weeks to recover from, because they knew Hebrew and I didn't.

That's my tu'penny worth anyway.
 
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LoricaLady

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I couldn't agree more with this statement. I remember a few years ago, having a discussion on a forum I used to host, with a lady who was undergoing lessons from a rabbi. At the time I knew virtually nothing about modern Judaism, and couldn't understand where she was getting some of the stuff she was coming up with. When it came to light about her situation with the rabbi though, I was forced to begin to look into these things for myself, just in order to be able to Scriptural arguments against what she was saying.

When I first began to read about the "oral" Torah being the so called instruction that Moses was given that had not been recorded in writing, it began to dawn on me how potentially dangerous it all was. Maybe I wasn't the first, but it immediately hit me as being virtually identical to the RCC view of the equal authority of Scripture and apostolic traditions, which I do not believe is true where the apostlic tradition/doctrine is not one and the same as the New Testament writings we have in the canon of the Bible.

[QUOTE="Catholic Answers Website]The true "rule of faith"—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

The bottom line is that, regardless of how strongly it may be denied, the "traditions" that are of the chosen few, become more powerfully adhered to than the written Word of God that has been revealed to all men. As some have said in this thread already, read the Talmud and you will begin to get an idea of the mentality of the Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day. But wasn't it that very fact that Jesus so often vehimently rebuked?

Mark 7:1-8 (ESV)
1 Now when the Pharisees gathered to him, with some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem,
2 they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed.
3 (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands properly, holding to the tradition of the elders,
4 and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.)
5 And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?”
6 And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”

My advice from personal experience, would be to never study what the Talmud has to say without an open Bible right next to it. If you are prepared to do that however, using the Bible as the rule by which everything is measured against, then you will reap the benefits greatly. For in virtually every page you will see mis-quotes and Scripture twisting like you've never seen it before, all to justify some of the most wicked perversions of the flesh you can stomach. Whilst at the same time pointing at you as the heretic in the room.

One other thing is this, also from experience. If you end up going toe to toe with a rabbi, keep it simple and stick to the core essentials of the faith. These guys have often been hearing the Talmud taught from infancy, and have stock rebuttals to the truth of the New Testament writings that can be very convincing indeed. I remember having my faith shaken to the core regarding the virgin birth, that took me weeks to recover from, because they knew Hebrew and I didn't.

That's my tu'penny worth anyway.[/QUOTE]
That was an excellent, scholarly, articulate, Scriptural response. I probably shouldn't even say this, but... Your picture made it hard for me to even want to read your post, at first. I guess to some it will be funny, like the 3 Stooges, but to me, well.... It doesn't convey the feeling of a balanced Scriptural person, such as your post seems to be revealing. Just sayin'.
 
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GUANO

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Kabbalah and Talmud are not great examples of ancient Judaism and are certainly not "more truthful"...

Talmud and kabbalah are not ancient.

With that being said it can shed some light on some areas depending on what you get out of it but it could spur more fantasy and superstitious idea especially about demonology which most people already have a hard time understanding.
 
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DavidFirth

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The Old Covenant describes God's dealing with our ancestors. It's just as much a part of salvation history as the New Covenant, and is the foundation on which it was built. It's worth our time to learn about all of God's dealings with humanity, not just one part.

I didn't forbid reading the OT. I simply state that since Christ is our only way to the Father, we should concentrate on Him. No one can be saved any other way.
 
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TuxAme

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I didn't forbid reading the OT. I simply state that since Christ is our only way to the Father, we should concentrate on Him. No one can be saved any other way.
When you read the Old Testament, something amazing happens: you read about God. You read the prophecies fortelling the birth of Christ. You read about the conditions that led to us needing a savior, and how (and why) God provided one.

To suggest that reading the Old Testament is to take our focus away from Jesus is foolish.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="Shadowprophet, post: 72699358, member: 373092"]This will require someone who is studied, As I've mentioned before, I like to study. I feel the more I learn the closer it could bring me to God. I discovered some time ago, The Ancient Jewish scriptures have answers to questions I've always wondered, For instance, the
Tetragrammaton teaches about The Origins of God. It also teaches that Satan used to be an angel called Samael and basically Samael is a prosecutor. It's not so much that he is evil. It's that he has a job as a prosecutor to do. I learned that Some of the Jewish teachings do seem to contradict what we as Christians are to believe in. However, It's fascinating to read because these scriptures are older than the new testament. They have answers to questions I've always wondered about.

I'm not looking for a simple yes-no answer. In my Eyes, What we believe in. Is literally based on this older religion, So I assume these scriptures are the truth. Should I continue this path of study?
[/QUOTE

False assumptions won't make those things truth.

They lead people away from Truth, and are even more deadly when ever reading them if you don't know this first.

People who are already knowing this don't feel any need to read them as they are deception opposed to Jesus and leading so many astray.
 
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John the Ex-Baptist

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When you read the Old Testament, something amazing happens: you read about God. You read the prophecies fortelling the birth of Christ. You read about the conditions that led to us needing a savior, and how (and why) God provided one.

To suggest that reading the Old Testament is to take our focus away from Jesus is foolish.

Couldn't agree more @TuxAme , all the Scriptures testify to the Person and work of Christ in some way or another.

Luke 24:25-27 (ESV)
25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
 
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DavidFirth

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When you read the Old Testament, something amazing happens: you read about God. You read the prophecies fortelling the birth of Christ. You read about the conditions that led to us needing a savior, and how (and why) God provided one.

To suggest that reading the Old Testament is to take our focus away from Jesus is foolish.

I thought that the Jewish Talmud and kabbalah were different from what we know as the OT?
 
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DavidFirth

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They are. I was just responding to someone who was commenting on the Old Testament.

Oh, okay. If they are different from accepted Catholic canon I have no interest in them whatsoever.
 
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Micah888

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It's probably ok to read those texts, as long as you remain objective in your perspective.
When there is a spiritual battle, the issue is quite different. Christians are required to shun every kind of fable and false teaching, and refrain from idle curiosity. This OP is about idle curiosity, not edification (which only comes from the Word of God).

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do... Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (1 Tim 1:4; 4:1).
 
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