Eternal Security based on a holy walk and the fear of falling away.

justbyfaith

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1st of all, in John 10:27-28 we find the words, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone pluck them out of my hand.

This of course is to be interpreted by Matthew 7:23, where Jesus says, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Also in Matthew 13:41-42 we find the words, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

In these scriptures we find that those who have eternal life and shall never perish and cannot be removed from Jesus' hand, are known by Jesus; but of course Jesus never knew them which do or work iniquity. Therefore the promise of eternal security in John 10:28 is for those who don't do or work iniquity.

This is substantiated by a comparison of 1 John 2:17, which also speaks of eternal security, and 1 John 3:6. I quote them below:

1 John 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 John 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This indicates to me that those who are abiding in the vine, Jesus Christ (see John 15:1-8), will abide for ever (and this is eternal security); but that those who abide in Jesus sin not: and since I do not want to argue here the idea of entire sanctification (sometimes slandered by the misnomer sinless perfection), we will say that what this means is that there will be a radical life change in the heart and life of all those who are truly born again: we have made a 180-degree turn; we were once walking in the direction of sin, hell, and death: now we are walking in the direction of righteousness, heaven, and life; as a matter of fact we have life: and that abundant (John 10:10) and eternal/everlasting (John 3:14-16, John 5:24, John 6:47, etc.).

Now the second point I want to make in this thread is that the fear of falling away is one of the reasons by which anyone might be eternally secure in the Lord. Consider:

Jeremiah 32:38-40, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God. And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them.: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

This scripture tells us that there is a group of people who will be the people of God; and God will be their God. They will fear Him for ever; that is, their fear of Him will never have an end. He will make a covenant with them that will last for ever, and will not turn away from doing them good for ever. And finally, they will not depart from Him because of His fear in their hearts; while He previously said they would fear Him for ever. So they will fear Him for ever; and this fear that will last for ever will keep them from departing from Him.

Now it has been argued that this scripture is given only to Israel, and if you want to argue that as a Gentile, that is fine with me. You are excluding yourself from this promise of eternal security in your own thinking; and I will not try to dissuade you from believing that which will harm you in the long run. I will only mention that in 2 Timothy 2:25 and elsewhere, the Bible speaks of that group of people who oppose themselves; and gives ministers of the word the instruction not to argue with them but to gently instruct them in the spirit of meekness.

I will point out that in Romans 11, there is the doctrine that the Gentiles are now graffed in to the olive tree that in scripture represents the people of Israel; and how the seed of Jacob has been cut off from that olive tree so that we as wild olive branches might be graffed in. Now I am not saying that Replacement Theology is true; because I believe that the promises of God to Israel apply to the seed of Jacob; but I will say this: that according to Romans 11 we can obtain the promises that are mentioned in the Old Testament; and if they are given to Israel, we can also partake of them (see Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20): because as born again believers we also are governed by God.

So I wanted to mention one last thing about the fear of falling away in scripture, though there is probably much more to say on the issue:

In Romans 11:19-22 there are the following statements:

Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity: but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Here we find a few things. We stand by faith and by continuing in His goodness according to this scripture. There is the possibility that we will not be saved if we do not continue in His goodness and faith; He will not spare us just as He did not spare certain of the Jewish people who departed from Him because of unbelief (note that Jeremiah 32:38-40, as pertains to the Jewish people, refers to the last days, and not to those who fell away because of unbelief at the time that the Gentiles were graffed in). He will be good to us as long as we continue to be good. Of course no one is good but God, if you take Luke 18:19 at face value. However this was spoken by Jesus before the Cross, and the Holy Spirit was not yet given, His blood not yet shed for our sins. Not only does His blood cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7, Psalms 51:7), but His Holy Spirit comes in and produces the fruit of goodness in our lives (Galatians 5:22-23). He sheds abroad His love in our hearts (Romans 5:5), which is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4). So by faith in Jesus Christ we obtain the goodness of God which we live by as true Christians. Barnabas was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24).

Here I will not argue whether the person who walks in His goodness for a season and is later cut off was never saved in the first place: to me it is something of a moot point. This scripture is an exhortation to fear the Lord and to continue in His goodness; and this fear of the Lord would indeed be the fear of falling away from faith in Him.

As a final note I want to add what it says in Philippians 1:6,

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

Therefore confident faith is not a bad thing; but it is highminded confidence, or presumption, that we are to look out for, and seek to eradicate from our thinking. In Philippians 1:6 it is given as an exhortation that we ought to be confident; while in Romans 11:19-22 the exhortation is to not be highminded but fear.

In Hebrews 11:29 we have the answer: By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

If you have a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ, you can confidently traverse the depths of the Red sea as though it were dry land (in the allegorical sense); but woe to the person who thinks they can do the same because someone else did or because they think they have faith when they really don't, i.e. they assay to do something that they don't really have faith for, out of presumption.

Now faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; so if I have a diet of reading the word of God and really hearing in my heart its message, and receiving it, I will have faith. But if at any time my heart gets hardened and I reject any portion of what God is trying to say to me, I am in danger of walking down a path that I eventually may never be able to return from. It says in Hebrews 3:12-15,

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. but exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end. While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

This is written to the brethren, and warns that even as believers we might be hardened in our hearts through the deceitfulness of sin, and end up departing from our living God because of an evil heart of unbelief. We are made partakers of Christ (that is, we are saved), if we keep our confidence and faith stedfast unto the end. This indicates that if my faith does not persevere to the end, I was never a partaker of Christ (saved).

So we ought to believe in and fear the Lord for ever as a motivation to never depart or fall away from God. I believe that as long as we fear falling away, this will keep us within the boundaries of where we ought to be, and we will not depart. We will have eternal life, we shall never perish, and neither shall anyone be able to pluck us out of Jesus' hand.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hi JustByFaith, I don't have time to address much of this tonight, but I would like to point out one thing for your consideration anyway. This is the NASB's translation of St. Paul's words, words which I believe he is speaking not only to the saints in Philippi, but to the saints throughout the ages as well.

He says:

Philippians 1
6 I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

I read this verse not as an admonishment of something that we need to do ("be confident"), but rather as the confidence that St. Paul has in what God is doing for us/in us, as well in His great promises to us. I believe he is saying that the One who saved us in the first place does not stop there (with our justification), but intends to continue His mighty work in us, making us more and more like His Son as each day passes, as well seeing us safely through this life to be with Him in Glory :amen:

There is more I'd like to discuss (as I said), but I need to go for now.

Yours and His,
David

Philippians 2

13 It is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
.
 
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Kenny'sID

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1st of all, in John 10:27-28 we find the words, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone pluck them out of my hand.

It's true, they will never perish as long as they choose to remain his sheep, and follow him.
 
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Micah888

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Now the second point I want to make in this thread is that the fear of falling away is the only reason why anyone might be eternally secure in the Lord.
This is incorrect. The eternal security of the believer is based squarely on who God is, who Christ is, who the Holy Spirit is, and what Christ has accomplished for our salvation.

Perfect love casteth out fear, so the motive is not fear, but love.
 
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redleghunter

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1st of all, in John 10:27-28 we find the words, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone pluck them out of my hand.

This of course is to be interpreted by Matthew 7:23, where Jesus says, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Also in Matthew 13:41-42 we find the words, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

In these scriptures we find that those who have eternal life and shall never perish and cannot be removed from Jesus' hand, are known by Jesus; but of course Jesus never knew them which do or work iniquity.

This is substantiated by a comparison of 1 John 2:17, which also speaks of eternal security, and 1 John 3:6. I quote them below:

1 John 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 John 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This indicates to me that those who are abiding in the vine, Jesus Christ (see John 15:1-8), will abide for ever (and this is eternal security); but that those who abide in Jesus sin not: and since I do not want to argue here the idea of entire sanctification (sometimes slandered by the misnomer sinless perfection), we will say that what this means is that there will be a radical life change in the heart and life of all those who are truly born again: we have made a 180-degree turn; we were once walking in the direction of sin, hell, and death: now we are walking in the direction of righteousness, heaven, and life; as a matter of fact we have life: and that abundant (John 10:10) and eternal/everlasting (John 3:14-16, John 5:24, John 6:47, etc.).

Now the second point I want to make in this thread is that the fear of falling away is the only reason why anyone might be eternally secure in the Lord. Consider:

Jeremiah 32:38-40, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God. And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them.: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

This scripture tells us that there is a group of people who will be the people of God; and God will be their God. They will fear Him for ever; that is, their fear of Him will never have an end. He will make a covenant with them that will last for ever, and will not turn away from doing them good for ever. And finally, they will not depart from Him because of His fear in their hearts, which He previously said they would fear Him for ever. So they will fear Him for ever; and this fear that will last for ever will keep them from departing from Him.

Now it has been argued that this scripture is given only to Israel, and if you want to argue that as a Gentile, that is fine with me. You are excluding yourself from this promise of eternal security in your own thinking; and I will not try to dissuade you from believing that which will harm you in the long run. I will only mention that in 2 Timothy 2:25 and elsewhere, the Bible speaks of that group of people who oppose themselves; and gives ministers of the word the instruction not to argue with them but to gently instruct them in the spirit of meekness.

I will point out that in Romans 11, there is the doctrine that the Gentiles are now graffed in to the olive tree that in scripture represents the people of Israel; and how the seed of Jacob has been cut off from that olive tree so that we as wild olive branches might be graffed in. Now I am not saying that Replacement Theology is true; because I believe that the promises of God to Israel apply to the seed of Jacob; but I will say this: that according to Romans 11 we can obtain the promises that are mentioned in the Old Testament; and if they are given to Israel, we can also partake of them: because as born again believers we also are governed by God.

So I wanted to mention one last thing about the fear of falling away in scripture, though there is probably much more to say on the issue:

In Romans 11:19-22 there are the following statements:

Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity: but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Here we find a few things. We stand by faith and by continuing on His goodness according to this scripture. There is the possibility that we will not be saved if we do not continue in His goodness and faith; He will not spare us just as He did not spare certain of the Jewish people who departed from Him because of unbelief (note that Jeremiah 32:38-40, as pertains to the Jewish people, refers to the last days, and not to those who fell away because of unbelief at the time that the Gentiles were graffed in). He will be good to us as long as we continue to be good. Of course no one is good but God, if you take Luke 18:19 at face value. However this was spoken by Jesus before the Cross, and the Holy Spirit was not yet given, His blood not yet shed for our sins. Not only does His blood cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7), but His Holy Spirit comes in and produces the fruit of goodness in our lives (Galatians 5:22-23). He sheds abroad His love in our hearts (Romans 5:5), which is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4). So by faith in Jesus Christ we obtain the goodness of God which we live by as true Christians.

Here I will not argue whether the person who walks in His goodness for a season and is later cut off was never saved in the first place: to me it is something of a moot point. This scripture is an exhortation to fear the Lord and to continue in His goodness; and this fear of the Lord would indeed be the fear of falling away from faith in Him.

As a final note I want to add what it says in Philippians 1:6,

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

Therefore confident faith is not a bad thing; but it is highminded confidence, or presumption, that we are to look out for, and seek to eradicate from our thinking. In Philippians 1:6 it is given as an exhortation that we ought to be confident; while in Romans 11:19-22 the exhortation is to not be highminded but fear.

In Hebrews 11:29 we have the answer: By faith they passed through the sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

If you have a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ, you can confidently traverse the depths of the sea as though it were dry land; but woe to the person who thinks they can do the same because someone else did or because they think they have faith when they really don't.

Now faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, so if I have a diet of reading the word of God and really hearing in my heart its message, and receiving it, I will have faith. But if at any time my heart gets hardened and I reject any portion of what God is trying to say to me, I am in danger of walking down a path that I eventually may never be able to return from. It says in Hebrews 3:12-15,

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. but exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end. While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

This is written to the brethren, and warns that even as believers we might be hardened in our hearts through the deceitfulness of sin, and end up departing from our living God because of an evil heart of unbelief. We are partakers of Christ (that is, we are saved), if we keep our confidence and faith stedfast unto the end. This indicates that if my faith does not persevere to the end, I was never a partaker of Christ (saved).

So we ought to believe in and fear the Lord for ever as a motivation to never depart or fall away from God. I believe that as long as we fear falling away, this will keep us within the boundaries of where we ought to be, and we will not depart. We will have eternal life, we shall never perish, and neither shall anyone be able to pluck us out of Jesus' hand.

In the links below, is a series that deals with eternal security and the relation with assurance. It's by John MacArthur.

Eternal Security

The Security of Salvation, Part 2

Good formats at Grace to You site. You can watch, listen or read the sermons.
 
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justbyfaith

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In the links below, is a series that deals with eternal security and the relation with assurance. It's by John MacArthur.

Eternal Security

The Security of Salvation, Part 2

Good formats at Grace to You site. You can watch, listen or read the sermons.
At the end of his second Sermon, he forgot that the reason why hope maketh not ashamed is because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost who is given to us, in Romans 5:5.

So in the final statement, eternal security is for those who love God because He has placed His love in our hearts through faith in Jesus Christ. So, what does it mean to love God?

1 John 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:6, And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, that, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Romans 13:8-10, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet: and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

In other words, if I walk according to a love that has been placed in my heart through faith in Jesus Christ, I am not going to break any of the commandments.

It is NOT that I obey the commandments and am saved by the keeping of them. No. I am saved through faith in Jesus Christ, and as a result He has given me the Holy Ghost, who sheds abroad His love in my heart, so that I keep the commandments. If I love you I am not going to steal from you or kill you, or covet your wife, or bear false witness against you, etc.

Now I am in basic agreement with just about everything else John MacArthur said in both of these Sermons; and I would encourage the reader/listener to integrate the teaching I have given in the OP of this thread with the statements made by John Mac Arthur in Sermons 1 and 2; because the OP is biblical: I attempted in it to exegete accurately what the verses actually are saying; and also the premise of what I have said is not against the concept of eternal security if you take it as a whole and do not isolate certain statements out of the context of the rest of the message thinking that they say something that they really do not say in light of the whole of what I have taught here.
 
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justbyfaith

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This is incorrect. The eternal security of the believer is based squarely on who God is, who Christ is, who the Holy Spirit is, and what Christ has accomplished for our salvation.

Perfect love casteth out fear, so the motive is not fear, but love.

Perfect love casts out the fear of things other than God. For the fear of God is healthy, and even a desirable.

Proverbs 1:7, The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Psalms 111:10, The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Job 28:28, And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Matthew 10:28, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.

Luke 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye should fear: Fear him which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell: I say unto you, Fear him.

1 Peter 1:17, And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
 
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justbyfaith

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This is incorrect. The eternal security of the believer is based squarely on who God is, who Christ is, who the Holy Spirit is, and what Christ has accomplished for our salvation.

Perfect love casteth out fear, so the motive is not fear, but love.
I did edit the original statement given in post #4 in order to make it more accurate (in the OP), based on your correction.
 
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redleghunter

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justbyfaith

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Hi JustByFaith, I don't have time to address much of this tonight, but I would like to point out one thing out for your consideration anyway. This is the NASB's translation of St. Paul's words, words which I believe he is speaking not only to the saints in Philippi, but to the saints throughout the ages as well.

He says:

Philippians 1
6 I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

I read this verse not as an admonishment of something that we need to do ("be confident"), but rather as the confidence that St. Paul has in what God is doing for us/in us, as well in His great promises to us. I believe he is saying that the One who saved us in the first place does not stop there (with our justification), but intends to continue His mighty work in us, making us more and more like His Son as each day passes, as well seeing us safely through this life to be with Him in Glory :amen:

There is more I'd like to discuss (as I said), but I need to go for now.

Yours and His,
David
Philippians 2
13 It is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
.
I will accept that as a correction, although I am KJV-superior in my view; because the KJV says the same thing basically. As believers in Christ, we have a confidence that as long as we continue in faith and goodness, we will not be cut off. And we have the confidence that Christ is able to keep us walking in that faith and goodness; because He has worked it into us both to will and to do to that effect. In other words, He has given me the desire to be obedient to Him through faith. It is therefore not highminded presumption, but truly confidence.
 
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justbyfaith

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That may be because I did not post Part 3 yet. :)

The Security of Salvation, Part 3

When John MacArthur says that in Romans 5:5 it is not talking about our love for God, but His love for us, he is mistaken. Now, it is definitely God's love that He places in our hearts; but when He places it in our hearts it becomes ours in the effect that we love God (and others) with the love of God. It is written in 1 John 4:19, We love him, because he first loved us.

It seems that John MacArthur might be of the opinion that men cannot love God, not even if God gives them that love. I understand that: he is a High Calvinist and probably believes in Total Depravity to the extent that all men must be totally depraved even if they are no longer dead in trespasses and sins. But in Ephesians 2:1 it says, And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

Therefore he is mistaken. For it is written, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And the fruit of the Spirit is not just the feeling that God loves us but is a practical love that works itself out in our behaviour. For it is written that against this fruit of the Spirit there is no law. In other words, if you are walking according to the fruit of the Spirit (love) there is no law that has ever been given that will identify your behaviour as sin.

We do indeed love God with the love that He has placed in our hearts, as is made clear by 1 John 4:19. John MacArthur has used the wrong scripture to interpret Romans 5:5; he was not led of the Holy Spirit to come to the conclusion that he came to. This is understandable, because even great teachers of God's word can be mistaken sometimes if they have a preconceived bias about something: and it is not a hidden thing that John MacArthur definitely has a preconceived bias toward Calvinistic thinking.

Now I am almost a High Calvinist myself so I am not mocking High Calvinism. One of the books that has influenced me was a book by A.W. Pink (I forget the name of the title as I don't have the book anymore) that had as its primary subject what is saving faith.
 
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redleghunter

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When John MacArthur says that in Romans 5:5 it is not talking about our love for God, but His love for us, he is mistaken. Now, it is definitely God's love that He places in our hearts; but when He places it in our hearts it becomes ours in the effect that we love God (and others) with the love of God. It is written in 1 John 4:19, We love him, because he first loved us.
I don't think he is mistaken. I think you mistook his exegesis. You even show at the end of your quote that God puts that Love in our hearts. Don't know where you are going with this, but the exegesis from JM is not off.

Don't know what you mean about the love 'becomes ours.' Jesus, in the True Vine discourse says thus:

John 15: NASB
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

Apart from Christ we can do nothing...meaning produce fruit worthy of God.

We shine the Light of Christ and His love. The Light does not become ours, but we do become light bearers. See the difference?

It seems that John MacArthur might be of the opinion that men cannot love God, not even if God gives them that love. I understand that: he is a High Calvinist and probably believes in Total Depravity to the extent that all men must be totally depraved even if they are no longer dead in trespasses and sins. But in Ephesians 2:1 it says, And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
I've listened and/or read many of his sermons. Never did I get the impression that he thinks we cannot love God with a born again heart. In fact that's the first sign of a child of God, their love of God which brings them to peace with God and then that Light from God which makes us at peace with others.

Therefore he is mistaken. For it is written, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Maybe drop in a few quotes to the exact sermon linked and I can try to figure out where you are getting this from.

And the fruit of the Spirit is not just the feeling that God loves us but is a practical love that works itself out in our behaviour. For it is written that against this fruit of the Spirit there is no law. In other words, if you are walking according to the fruit of the Spirit (love) there is no law that has ever been given that will identify your behaviour as sin.
Bolded above is exactly what JM teaches in the series.

We do indeed love God with the love that He has placed in our hearts, as is made clear by 1 John 4:19. John MacArthur has used the wrong scripture to interpret Romans 5:5; he was not led of the Holy Spirit to come to the conclusion that he came to. This is understandable, because even great teachers of God's word can be mistaken sometimes if they have a preconceived bias about something: and it is not a hidden thing that John MacArthur definitely has a preconceived bias toward Calvinistic thinking.
I think you are attributing things JM has never said or taught. If you are referring to how we cannot truly love God when we are still His enemy, meaning before we are born again, that is correct. After God has done His saving work in us we are no longer His enemies but adopted children and co-heirs with Christ.
 
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justbyfaith

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He said in The Security of Salvation part 3, and I quote (copied and pasted):

Now let me get you a little deeper into verse 5. It says: "The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts." Now listen very carefully. That is not talking about our love for God. That is talking about God's love for us. How do you know that? Because the rest of the passage makes a point of that, verse 8: "God commended His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." It's talking about God's love for us. And so the truth is that God's love for us has been deposited in our hearts by the presence of the Holy Spirit. What are we saying, practically? That the Holy Spirit gives the believer the sense that God loves Him. That's a... That's a subjective thing.

re #17.
 
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lamb7

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Perfect love casts out the fear of things other than God. For the fear of God is healthy, and even a desirable.

Proverbs 1:7, The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Psalms 111:10, The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Job 28:28, And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Matthew 10:28, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.

Luke 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye should fear: Fear him which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell: I say unto you, Fear him.

1 Peter 1:17, And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

I think fear here is more reverence and taking Him seriously not this paralyzing fear constantly of God and sinning. You know a healthy fear not an irrational one.
 
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justbyfaith

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That is true, except for 2 Corinthians 5:11 (kjv).

I think that it is like a blind man living on a plateau, with sound emanating from the middle area. If you stay near the middle, there is no reason to have any kind of terror. But if you are walking near the edge, fear should increase (from the healthy perspective) because there is a greater possibility of falling over the edge. re #24.
 
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redleghunter

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He said in The Security of Salvation part 3, and I quote (copied and pasted):



re #17.
Thanks...

This quote does not say that once the love of God is in us we cannot love God. I think you drew that conclusion.
 
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justbyfaith

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So you are saying that he teaches that the love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts is God's love that we love God (and others) with so that He fulfills the righteousness of the law within us when we walk according to the love of the Spirit (Romans 8:4) because His love is shed abroad in our hearts through the Spirit...
 
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