What is the 1st resurrection?

Kevin Snow said:

The mark of the beast is physical

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Nope.

It doesn't matter their identities when that's what scripture says.

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It matters to God. He said so in His Word.

But, this mark is not spiritual but is a physical mark on the body which is given only during the second 3.5 year period. It has nothing to do with the identity of the beasts but this is what scripture says about what the beasts DO, not what they are.

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I take that you are say ing this because you could not answer my four-point questions.

If you can't understand Revelations in a literal sense then don't read it.

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The book of Revelation "IS NOT" a literal narrative. For example:

Revelation 5:6-7
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Tell me. What do the four beasts (or living creatures) are signified of? What about the elders? And we know that a Lamb is Jesus Christ who has been slain, but what does it mean that he has seven horns, seven eyes and seven spirits of God? What does the right hand signify that Lamb took the book from? Let hear your "completely literal but not completely physical" interpretation for it!

The four horseman represent real things on earth.

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Prove it. Who are these four horsemen and what they bring represents? The bow, sword, pair of balance, the fourth part of the earth. Tell us!

The horses of fire represent real things on earth.

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Do you think the horses of fire are Helicopters or something? Seriously!

The beasts represent real things on earth.

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Let me know what these beasts represent, whatever you think it is, will literally come out of the sea and earth.

TribulationSigns said:

Nope.
It matters to God. He said so in His Word.
I take that you are say ing this because you could not answer my four-point questions.
The book of Revelation "IS NOT" a literal narrative. For example:

Revelation 5:6-7
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Tell me. What do the four beasts (or living creatures) are signified of? What about the elders? And we know that a Lamb is Jesus Christ who has been slain, but what does it mean that he has seven horns, seven eyes and seven spirits of God? What does the right hand signify that Lamb took the book from? Let hear your "completely literal but not completely physical" interpretation for it!
Prove it. Who are these four horsemen and what they bring represents? The bow, sword, pair of balance, the fourth part of the earth. Tell us!
Do you think the horses of fire are Helicopters or something? Seriously!
Let me know what these beasts represent, whatever you think it is, will literally come out of the sea and earth.

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"Let me hear your interpretation of it." You are mistaken that it needs interpreting. Allow me to explain. You think of this book Revelations in the context of some story told to you but it's not some story. It really happened in heaven. So now this principle comes into play:

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? ~John 3:12

So the book of Revelations consists of heavenly revelations and you are lost as to how to understand what is written. You need to just understand it, not interpret it. You interpret something that is unintelligible to someone else. But if something is written straightforward in your language then you just need to understand what is written. You interpret dreams because they represent something on earth but as for many of the things in Revelations, they are representing themselves in the heavenly places.

Much of it is representing something on earth but at the same time, it is represented in heaven according to the description given. That is why, it is fine for it to be left alone as it is, but in order to help others understand the times, those things described in the heavenly places in Revelations will be interpreted for the people, but not all of those things.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. ~1 Corinthians 2:14

As it is you are not asking me to answer something you don't understand, but you actually think you understand it! Which is why no answer will be given you.

Kevin Snow said:

The mark of the beast is physical and they are only caused to be marked during the 3.5 year period. It doesn't matter their identities when that's what scripture says.

The abomination of desolation is when the man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God. And this is what starts the 3.5 year period for before that time there is the 3.5 year period of the temple's courts being trampled by the Gentiles. So in all there is 7 years in which his army and himself defile the temple of God in Jerusalem. But, this mark is not spiritual but is a physical mark on the body which is given only during the second 3.5 year period. It has nothing to do with the identity of the beasts but this is what scripture says about what the beasts DO, not what they are.

If you can't understand Revelations in a literal sense then don't read it. Revelations is completely literal but not completely physical. When Nebuchadnezzar's dream was interpreted, those things in his dream represented real things on earth and when Pharoah's dream was interpreted, those things in his dream represented real things on earth. So also is it with Revelation. The four horseman represent real things on earth. The horses of fire represent real things on earth. The beasts represent real things on earth.

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You are wrong on many counts.
Im just going point out one thing.
A man does not place the abomination that causes desolation.A military does.
And bringing you up to the 21 century,a millitary uses weapons to cause desolation.
Militaries don't sacrifice pigs tto cause desolaion.
Militaries do not cclaim to be God to cause desolation .No,oneclaiming tone God causes desolation .Try just little common sense when studying scripture.

Daniel 11:31 KJV: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

shilohsfoal said:

You are wrong on many counts.
Im just going point out one thing.
A man does not place the abomination that causes desolation.A military does.
And bringing you up to the 21 century,a millitary uses weapons to cause desolation.
Militaries don't sacrifice pigs tto cause desolaion.
Militaries do not cclaim to be God to cause desolation .No,oneclaiming tone God causes desolation .Try just little common sense when studying scripture.

Daniel 11:31 KJV: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

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You're not taking this seriously at all. Is this a child's game for you? All you do is say, "NO, you are wrong. Here is my opinion." You don't provide the reason for it. Is this then the truth? Are you the arbiter of God and have you understood Revelations? Then please declare it here and now so that we may know where we stand. Tell us the calculation of the number of this lawless man. As it says,

This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. ~Revelation 13:18

You declare what you think as if it was true, without providing why so then you must be this man with wisdom. You must know all of Revelations and the mode of it's understanding.

Or you don't and you can sit down and listen for once. This thread is not talking about any of these things but the first resurrection. But I see you can't even understand that because of the assumptions you made about the book as a whole.

We can't go through the whole book of revelations to make one point. So for now, you'll have to accept the fact that there are multiple understandings of Revelations.

So I can say the same to you: no, you are wrong, here is my opinion. And we can beat each other with them like real intellectuals. OR we can give our reason for what we believe.

Kevin Snow said:

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. ~1 Corinthians 2:14

As it is you are not asking me to answer something you don't understand, but you actually think you understand it! Which is why no answer will be given you.

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LOL! You got it backward.

I think the 1st Corinthians 2:14 applies to YOU! You are the one with a natural mind that does NOT understand what God says. You obviously do not have spiritual discernment which is why I challenged you to explain Revelation 5:6-7 in my previous post to prove my point. I take that you were NOT able to answer my questions directly with Scripture, instead, you played martyr complex and tried to make a claim that I will not understand you "IF", that is a BIG "IF" you answer at all! Repent and try again:

TribulationSigns said:

LOL! You got it backward.

I think the 1st Corinthians 2:14 applies to YOU! You are the one with a natural mind that does NOT understand what God says. You obviously do not have spiritual discernment which is why I challenged you to explain Revelation 5:6-7 in my previous post to prove my point. I take that you were NOT able to answer my questions directly with Scripture, instead, you played martyr complex and tried to make a claim that I will not understand you "IF", that is a BIG "IF" you answer at all! Repent and try again:

Revelation 5:6-7
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Tell me. What do the four beasts (or living creatures) are signified of? What about the elders? And we know that a Lamb is Jesus Christ who has been slain, but what does it mean that he has seven horns, seven eyes and seven spirits of God? What does the right hand signify that Lamb took the book from? Let hear your "completely literal but not completely physical" interpretation for it!​

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Why are you going backwards? The thread is about the first resurrection. We can dig deeper into our disagreement over that. But I'm not going to create more content by answering you since that is wise.

So I've made my choice and it is true, we need to deliberate about the first resurrection and understand why the first resurrection is for the 1000 year reign and it consists only of those who did not take the mark of the beast. That's what scripture says.

Now so far, you want to interpret the mark of the beast as not being a physical mark of 666 (or 616). That is YOUR interpretation right?

My interpretation is that it is a physical mark of the number of his name.

So then YOU answer me. What is the basis for construing scripture as you do and not interpreting it literally? Let's stick with the program and not get lost on bunny trails ok.

Kevin Snow said:

Then please declare it here and now so that we may know where we stand. Tell us the calculation of the number of this lawless man. As it says,

This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. ~Revelation 13:18

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God tells us that it is "wisdom and understanding" rather than mathematical skills that are required to discover what the number of the beast signifies. And comparing Scripture with Scripture, we know that wisdom and understanding (Biblically speaking) is in the fear of the Lord to take His divine word very seriously and studiously.

So you think you have wisdom, so what do you think? We are told that we are simply to count that one number. But how do we count six hundred sixty-six alone? Do you know? There really is only one way, which uses the Bible as our example and counts it the way other numbers are counted in Scripture. Is it a physical number - something you add it mathematically, playing with some numerology, or based on someone's name? Well, guess what? We count it as a spiritual number! And since it obviously is not upon ALL, but only PART of the whole are marked deceived of Satan to worship the image, we count it as part of the whole. So tell me how do we count that one number, 666.

Oh, and by the way, ttake note that your "translation" may read, "the number of 'A' Man," but rest assured the "a" is NOT really (never was, never will be) in any manuscripts. It is not in any of the manuscripts or copies of the original. We should understand that there are no indefinite articles in the Greek, as there are in English. The word is anarthrous or [anth'-ro-pos], and is a genitive case, which specifically defines. So be forewarned that in the Greek, it is the exact same declarative phrase as found in Romans:

Romans 2:9

• "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of Man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"

Or again, as we see demonstrated in Corinthians:

1st Corinthians 2:9

• "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart Of Man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

There is no article 'a' there, just as there is none in Revelation chapter 13. Or again, as seen in such contexts as Revelation chapter one:

Revelation 1:13

• "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks, one like unto the Son Of Man..."

This is the "exact" same Greek application as in Revelation chapter 13! Hello! There is no article 'a' there, nor in Revelation chapter 13, and there shouldn't be. The 'a' in Revelation chapter 13 was put there erroneously in some translations (presumably) because they thought that it might make it better understood. In reality, of course, it has had the opposite effect! Because some people (and even a few theologians) have because of this formed the misguided idea that there actually is an 'a' in that verse. Consequently, many think that this verse refers to a particular man, rather than simply man, or mankind, which is the way it was actually "inspired by God" to be written. This number of the beast is the number "of man." But there is no need to take my word for it, simply check it out carefully yourself. Compare in the original Greek, or get yourself an interlinear explanation, or consult any "real" expert in the Greek languages, and you will find this to be the case. It is an undeniable fact that there is not written there, "..number of a man." What the Holy Spirit actually inspired written is, "..it is the Number Of Man. So we have the beast a devouring creature signifying animalistic carnality, "of the flesh." And we are told that the number of the beast is the number of man, whose number is six hundred, sixty and six. Finally, those with wisdom and understanding should count this number of man, which is of the beast.

So let hear your wisdom on this matter.

Kevin Snow said:

Why are you going backwards? The thread is about the first resurrection. We can dig deeper into our disagreement over that. But I'm not going to create more content by answering you since that is wise.

So I've made my choice and it is true, we need to deliberate about the first resurrection and understand why the first resurrection is for the 1000 year reign and it consists only of those who did not take the mark of the beast. That's what scripture says.

Now so far, you want to interpret the mark of the beast as not being a physical mark of 666 (or 616). That is YOUR interpretation right?

My interpretation is that it is a physical mark of the number of his name.

So then YOU answer me. What is the basis for construing scripture as you do and not interpreting it literally? Let's stick with the program and not get lost on bunny trails ok.

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You are distracting subject just to avoid answering my Revelation 5 questions presented to you that clearly proved my point. You do not know the answer because you lack spiritual discernment.

TribulationSigns said:

God tells us that it is "wisdom and understanding" rather than mathematical skills that are required to discover what the number of the beast signifies. And comparing Scripture with Scripture, we know that wisdom and understanding (Biblically speaking) is in the fear of the Lord to take His divine word very seriously and studiously.

So you think you have wisdom, so what do you think? We are told that we are simply to count that one number. But how do we count six hundred sixty-six alone? Do you know? There really is only one way, which uses the Bible as our example and counts it the way other numbers are counted in Scripture. Is it a physical number - something you add it mathematically, playing with some numerology, or based on someone's name? Well, guess what? We count it as a spiritual number! And since it obviously is not upon ALL, but only PART of the whole are marked deceived of Satan to worship the image, we count it as part of the whole. So tell me how do we count that one number, 666.

Oh, and by the way, ttake note that your "translation" may read, "the number of 'A' Man," but rest assured the "a" is NOT really (never was, never will be) in any manuscripts. It is not in any of the manuscripts or copies of the original. We should understand that there are no indefinite articles in the Greek, as there are in English. The word is anarthrous or [anth'-ro-pos], and is a genitive case, which specifically defines. So be forewarned that in the Greek, it is the exact same declarative phrase as found in Romans:

Romans 2:9

• "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of Man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"

Or again, as we see demonstrated in Corinthians:

1st Corinthians 2:9

• "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart Of Man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

There is no article 'a' there, just as there is none in Revelation chapter 13. Or again, as seen in such contexts as Revelation chapter one:

Revelation 1:13

• "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks, one like unto the Son Of Man..."

This is the "exact" same Greek application as in Revelation chapter 13! Hello! There is no article 'a' there, nor in Revelation chapter 13, and there shouldn't be. The 'a' in Revelation chapter 13 was put there erroneously in some translations (presumably) because they thought that it might make it better understood. In reality, of course, it has had the opposite effect! Because some people (and even a few theologians) have because of this formed the misguided idea that there actually is an 'a' in that verse. Consequently, many think that this verse refers to a particular man, rather than simply man, or mankind, which is the way it was actually "inspired by God" to be written. This number of the beast is the number "of man." But there is no need to take my word for it, simply check it out carefully yourself. Compare in the original Greek, or get yourself an interlinear explanation, or consult any "real" expert in the Greek languages, and you will find this to be the case. It is an undeniable fact that there is not written there, "..number of a man." What the Holy Spirit actually inspired written is, "..it is the Number Of Man. So we have the beast a devouring creature signifying animalistic carnality, "of the flesh." And we are told that the number of the beast is the number of man, whose number is six hundred, sixty and six. Finally, those with wisdom and understanding should count this number of man, which is of the beast.

So let hear your wisdom on this matter.

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Sure let's go with that. See? We make progress now. Let's say the correct reading is "the number of man" which therefore signifies what you say, the number is representing carnality. Great.

So, this doesn't change what the first resurrection is at all. Still, even with the number representing fleshly man by himself, without God, then we still have the same argument, that this number is not given out to be on the forehead or the hand except during that 3.5 year period in which the beast exercises it's authority.

And we are still left with the first resurrection referring to the people that did not take that mark during his 3.5 year period of the abomination that makes desolate.

PS: If I lacked spiritual discernment, that would not prove YOUR point. You are mistaken. The truth is the truth regardless of whether you can see it or not.

Kevin Snow said:

Sure let's go with that. See? We make progress now. Let's say the correct reading is "the number of man" which therefore signifies what you say, the number is representing carnality. Great.

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The beast is a body of carnal men, women, and children who is going after the working of Satan. They may professed to be Christians but are not truly children of God. They are a part of a whole which is what 666 represents. So the question remains for you is, how do you count that single number, 666. How do you think you can do it with physical mark anyway?!

So, this doesn't change what the first resurrection is at all.

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Don't worry about the first resurrection now, since you focus on emphasizing about the mark of the beast now.

Still, even with the number representing fleshly man by himself, without God, then we still have the same argument, that this number is not given out to be on the forehead or the hand except during that 3.5 year period in which the beast exercises it's authority.

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Sigh. You don't get it. First, tell me do you beleive the mark of the beast is a physical mark that will physically be shown on your forehead or right hand? If so, you have a problem. The truth is that the mark is spiritual mark to signify Satan's ownership of them. The name is to signify they are part of his spiritual family. And the number is to signify their lot or part is with the beast! Those people who receive these lying signs and wonders that spoke by false prophets and christs have "fallen" away from God, and are now deceived into worshiping the image or likeness of the beast.

If you read in Revelation Chapter 14 where those who are the servants of God, have His name written in their foreheads. This is the very same imagery, rather than literal marks! The only thing different about this is that it is an exact opposite of the name of the Beast. This doesn't mean that God's name is literally bored or burned into our foreheads. It signifies that we belong to God, or that we are in servitude to Him (1st Corinthians 7:22-23). Christians being bought with a price are 'servants' or bondservants of God. That symbolism of the name of God in their foreheads, signifies that by being part of God's "spiritual family," they take on certain aspects of the character of God, including the name "Christ-ian". It is a picture that our minds are in Christ. Likewise the mark of the beast in man's right hand and forehead symbolizes his servitude, and that his mind is sold out to Satan. These are the two proverbial Kingdoms. Either we're God's servants, or we are servants of the Devil. Either we have the Spirit of Christ, or the spirit of anti-Christ. A physical mark does NOT determine the position of our souls! It is a spiritual mark that God and His angels can see. So the question, "what is the mark of the beast," is a question that must be answered by the Spirit, through the careful exegesis of the word of God, rather than through the words of fanciful books and popular authors that you are probably reading.

What is the symbolism of the mark of his name in their right hand, and in their foreheads, you may ask? The right hand in Scripture is often used as an illustration of the will of man. Because the hand is used by man to do his bidding.

The hand is illustrative of man's will, and specifically, the right hand, is the main hand. It is self-evident that the overwhelming majority of people are right handed, meaning, the right hand is the prominent hand. i.e., it's the stronger hand, or the hand of power. In the old Testament, when a father will was that his son be blessed, he would signify this by laying his "right hand" upon him. Or When Jesus ascended to the throne of God, He was seated at the "right hand" of God. In these illustrations of the hand, God is giving us a spiritual image of the will. Even today, if you were to say of a friend, that he was your "right hand man," immediately all would understand what you meant. Because it's an illustration of being able to depend upon him. i.e., he works like my own right hand, or he does "my will" as if by my own hand. Again, if we were to say, "He had his hand in it also," that would indicate to all that "his Will" was to go along with it, or that he was a "willing participant" in it. That is the significance of the hand in this imagery. The right hand is an idiom for "will and power." Thus when we read Satan's mark is in their right hand, it signifies Satan uses these deceived men as his 'main hand' or as his power to get his will done on earth. He doesn't pop up as a red horned devil with a pitchfork, he manifests himself in "MAN."

2nd Corinthians 11:13-15

• For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
• And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
• Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

They do his bidding as if it were by his own right hand. They are in servitude to him, are under his authority, and do his will.

As for the forehead, it is where the mind is, and is illustrative of man's thinking. By giving us spiritual images of believers with the name of God written on their foreheads, it is revealed their minds are sealed in Christ Jesus so that their thoughts become one with His. Believers all have one mind as they are all sealed or secured of the Spirit in Christ.

Romans 15:6

• "That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

1st Corinthians 2:16

• "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Believer's having the name of God written in their foreheads are illustrative of a people who are of one Spirit where God is guiding them in their will and in their thinking. It is the fulfilling of Old Covenant prophecy.|

Hebrews 10:16

• "This is the Covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will write My law into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."

No one would look at Hebrews 10:16 and even begin to think that God means that He's literally written Scripture on someone's heart, or that He has literally carved laws on our foreheads or in our minds. Because of the Spirit we readily understand its imagery or a spiritual metaphor illustrating our spiritual nature. And yet, some theologians will take the verse in Revelation chapter 13, which is an even more obviously symbolic and spiritual book, and try and force the name or number of the non-literal beast, to be literally something marked in one's forehead. And ironically, usually all while looking at the beast, it's horns, and it's rising from the earth and sea, as symbolic. There is no scriptural justification for this type of interpreting. Not in the context, content, or character of the chapter can we "read into" Scripture such ideas. The mark is no more talking about a literal mark, than Hebrews 10:16 is talking about literal marks of Scripture written upon our hearts or passages scribbled in our minds. It is mere symbolism that we are sealed with God's Spirit in our minds (2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelation 7:3), that we have an earnest desire to obey God's laws and do His will by our hand. It is by the Spirit ingrained upon our hearts and minds that we will and do.

2nd Timothy 1:7

• "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

Philippians 2:13

• "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

All true believers have the spirit of a sound mind, the one mind in Christ Jesus. The name of Christ is the word of God, and that is what is spiritually sealed within our minds that we would obey and work and do.

By the same token, those who are deceived by the spirit of Satan also have the same mind. But instead of the mind of lawfulness, they have the mind of lawlessness! Their desire is not to do the will of God, but to be disobedient and do the will of their father, the Devil.

Ephesians 2:2-3

• "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
• Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

Jesus told the Scribes and Pharisees that their mind was defiled because they were of their father, the Devil. Why? Because the mind of the people of Israel was given over to that prince or ruler, Satan. Spiritually speaking, he had become their king and held them in bondage (John 8:36). In this same fashion, when the church falls into the apostasy illustrated in Revelation chapter 13, these professed Christians also will be brought into bondage by Satan! And as the true believers are sealed in their foreheads to signify they are all of one mind in the Spirit of Christ, so these will be spiritually marked in their forehead signifying that they are all of one mind in the spirit of antichrist. Indeed, as it is written:

Revelation 17:13

• "These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."

One mind, one spiritual father, one character of the beast. Collectively, we have either the mind of Christ, or the mind of Satan. And those who fall away are spiritually defiled. The same type illustration as found in Titus, where it speaks about the mind of the unrighteous being defiled.

Titus 1:15

• "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled".

This is what the mark on the forehead symbolized!!! Get it?! That their mind is defiled and they are all of one spirit to give their hand in work for the beast's kingdom. So again, the mark of the Beast in man's hand and forehead is not a carnal or fleshly mark, rather it is the mark of the flesh, or of carnality. For the carnal mind is illustrated in the will of the flesh. The mind being marked signifies carnal thinking, and the hand signifies the will of the flesh. The mark is a token of the nature of disobedience and signifies that one does not have the Spirit of God, but is sold out to the flesh. And one who has the mark of the beast in his head, has the sign of death upon him.,

You are making it up as you go along man. Remember, stop creating new content. Either the mark is physical or its not.

With the assumption that it is, you go on to make points from that. I'm only interested in the points BEFORE which establish it as being NOT physical.

So simmer down and focus. The reason the mark is physical is because it says this:

Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead ~Revelation 13:16

It's just that simple dude. You are blowing it way out of proportion. The abomination that makes desolate causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave to be marked on the right hand or the forehead.

The spiritual mark is the mark of God. As it says:

Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. ~Revelation 14:1

The reason it's spiritual is because they are in HEAVEN. But the mark of the beast is on EARTH.

It's on your hand or forehead dude on earth. It's a physical mark on your hand or forehead. My gosh, I'm done here:

always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. ~2 Timothy 3:7-8

Kevin Snow said:

You're not taking this seriously at all. Is this a child's game for you? All you do is say, "NO, you are wrong. Here is my opinion." You don't provide the reason for it. Is this then the truth? Are you the arbiter of God and have you understood Revelations? Then please declare it here and now so that we may know where we stand. Tell us the calculation of the number of this lawless man. As it says,

This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. ~Revelation 13:18

You declare what you think as if it was true, without providing why so then you must be this man with wisdom. You must know all of Revelations and the mode of it's understanding.

Or you don't and you can sit down and listen for once. This thread is not talking about any of these things but the first resurrection. But I see you can't even understand that because of the assumptions you made about the book as a whole.

We can't go through the whole book of revelations to make one point. So for now, you'll have to accept the fact that there are multiple understandings of Revelations.

So I can say the same to you: no, you are wrong, here is my opinion. And we can beat each other with them like real intellectuals. OR we can give our reason for what we believe.

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What Im saying here is not an opinion.It is the word of God.

Daniel 11:31 KJV: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

A man,does not place the abomination which causes desolstion.A military does just as the word of God says.

Anyone with common sense should knows man claiming to be God does not cause desolation.
But as the word of God says ,a millitary places the abomination which causes desolation and anyone with common sense would know,wespons of mass destruction can cause desolation.

Common sense,a gift .

Kevin Snow said:

It's on your hand or forehead dude on earth. It's a physical mark on your hand or forehead. My gosh, I'm done here

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Bye

shilohsfoal said:

What Im saying here is not an opinion.It is the word of God.

Daniel 11:31 KJV: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

A man,does not place the abomination which causes desolstion.A military does just as the word of God says.

Anyone with common sense should knows man claiming to be God does not cause desolation.
But as the word of God says ,a millitary places the abomination which causes desolation and anyone with common sense would know,wespons of mass destruction can cause desolation.

Common sense,a gift .

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You flatter yourself. Try this:

The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
~Proverbs 18:17

So consider these:

but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. ~Revelation 11:2

This is the military part. It is the first 3.5 year period or 42 months. After the first 3.5 year period THEN the abomination that makes desolate is set up. So you need to understand, that the abomination that makes desolate is at once the END of the first 3.5 year period and the BEGINNING of the SECOND 3.5 year period.

And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. ~Revelation 13:5

These two periods make up this:

And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator. ~Daniel 9:27

Here we understand the WHOLE picture. The military comes into the glorious land and defiles the sanctuary and tramples the courts for 42 months, half of one week which is 7 years, THEN ONE comes and makes desolate until the end is poured out on the SINGULAR desolator. This ONE is the man of lawlessness who sits in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God and through power of evil and sorcery causes a stone to come alive and kill anyone who does not take the mark of himself. Here:

who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. ~2 Thessalonians 2:4

Through this he does this:

And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. ~Revelation 13:15

As it says by the prophets:

Woe to him who says to a wooden thing, Awake; to a silent stone, Arise! Can this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in it. ~Habakkuk 2:19

And this in TOTAL is the abomination that makes desolate. It is this stone man that is made to live and kill the saints.

Kevin Snow said:

You flatter yourself. Try this:

The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
~Proverbs 18:17

So consider these:

but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. ~Revelation 11:2

This is the military part. It is the first 3.5 year period or 42 months. After the first 3.5 year period THEN the abomination that makes desolate is set up. So you need to understand, that the abomination that makes desolate is at once the END of the first 3.5 year period and the BEGINNING of the SECOND 3.5 year period.

And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. ~Revelation 13:5

These two periods make up this:

And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator. ~Daniel 9:27

Here we understand the WHOLE picture. The military comes into the glorious land and defiles the sanctuary and tramples the courts for 42 months, half of one week which is 7 years, THEN ONE comes and makes desolate until the end is poured out on the SINGULAR desolator. This ONE is the man of lawlessness who sits in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God and through power of evil and sorcery causes a stone to come alive and kill anyone who does not take the mark of himself. Here:

who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. ~2 Thessalonians 2:4

Through this he does this:

And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. ~Revelation 13:15

As it says by the prophets:

Woe to him who says to a wooden thing, Awake; to a silent stone, Arise! Can this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in it. ~Habakkuk 2:19

And this in TOTAL is the abomination that makes desolate. It is this stone man that is made to live and kill the saints.

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Daniel 11:31 KJV: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


Perhaps you should try to understand this oneverse before covetingthe entire bible.A man,does not place the abomination which causes desolation.A millitary does.

The king of the north causes a millitary comprised of gentiles to occupy JerJerusalemAt which time the daily sacrifice is taken away.The military willcsusr fire to come down,from,hheaven in the sight of man.
At the end of 42 months his military in Jerusalem,is defeated and killed.Jerusalem is taken,the women raped ,the houses ransacked by Muslims.Half of the city goes into exile.
The other half remains.
This is when theking of the north(israels closest ally) nukes,most of the middle east.This is when he places the abomination which causes desolation.

Daniel 11:44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

The abomination which causes desolation is the object he orders his military to use to annihilate many.

The abomination which causes desolation.




Revelation 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,

Revelation 6:13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

Revelation 6:14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Kevin Snow said:

You flatter yourself.

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I thought you are done with this. Miss me?

The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
~Proverbs 18:17

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You are desperate to stay relevant.

but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. ~

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Revelation 11:2

This is the military part.

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Military part? Okay whatever you said so, O' natural man.

It is the first 3.5 year period or 42 months. After the first 3.5 year period THEN the abomination that makes desolate is set up. So you need to understand, that the abomination that makes desolate is at once the END of the first 3.5 year period and the BEGINNING of the SECOND 3.5 year period.

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[yawning] Typical Dispensationalism rant.

And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.

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~Daniel 9:27

Here we understand the WHOLE picture. The military comes into the glorious land and defiles the sanctuary and tramples the courts for 42 months, half of one week which is 7 years, THEN ONE comes and makes desolate until the end is poured out on the SINGULAR desolator. This ONE is the man of lawlessness who sits in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God and through power of evil and sorcery causes a stone to come alive and kill anyone who does not take the mark of himself. Here:

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One man do all of this? Yeah, what I thought, another Dispensationalist rant.

And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.

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~Revelation 13:15

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I see that you did not answer my question long time ago. What is God's definition of the beast in Scripture? Chapter and verse, please.

Woe to him who says to a wooden thing, Awake; to a silent stone, Arise! Can this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in it.

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~Habakkuk 2:19

And this in TOTAL is the abomination that makes desolate. It is this stone man that is made to live and kill the saints.

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Stone man made alive to kill humans? Boy, you must have duped by Noah the movie!

The affects of the abomination which causes desolation is desolation.
Egypt,a lucky recipient of the king of the norths wrath will not be inhabited for forty years.

Ezekiel 29:12 I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations and scatter them through the countries.

claninja said:

Revelation 20:4-7
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison


According to Peter, and the author of Hebrews, Jesus is in heaven until his enemies are made a footstool
Acts 2:34-45 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’f

Hebrews 10:12-13 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool

According to Paul, Jesus is reigning until ALL his enemies are made a footstool
1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet

Paul goes even further to say that the last enemy to defeat is death,
1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death

Paul states the resurrection (defeat of death) occurs at Christ's coming
1 Corinthians 15:23 each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord

If Christ is in heaven until ALL his enemies are defeated, with death being the last enemy, how can a 1st resurrection occur (defeat of death) occur before the defeat of satan (revelation 20:7)?

Unless maybe the 1st resurrection is those who are born again?

Colossians 3:1-4
1If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. 3For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ who is youra life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Romans 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him

Especially considering Peter refers to believers as a kingdom of priests:
Revelation 20:6 but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

And that 2nd death doesn't have power over believers
John 3:15 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

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There will be a resurrection at the beginning of the millennium for the martyred tribulation saints. The first resurrection of the millennium.

And another resurrection of the dead for the resurrection for the Great White Throne judgment, the second resurrection.

Neither of those two resurrections are the resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians4:15-18. That resurrection/rapture can happen any time, between now and when it actually happens - but before the Day of the Lord begins.

Micah888 said:

The Lord said "...for the hour is coming...". It should be obvious that He used "hour" metaphorically for a period of time, since it would be absurd (given the rest of the NT and particularly Revelation) to think that the two resurrections would occur in one hour.

Indeed Revelation 20 puts a gap of AT LEAST 1000 YEARS between the resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the unrighteous.

BTW there are no resurrections on the day of the second coming of Christ. That is the death when He brings death, destruction, and devastation on His enemies. See Rev 19.

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The idea of the "hour" He used is about the day of His 2nd coming with the resurrection. That's when all in the graves shall hear His voice, and come forth like that John 5:28-29 Scripture says. He used the "hour" reference for His return also in Matt.24 and Mark 13. So that hour of His coming will be a literal day and hour, the event of His return.

If you believe the "resurrection of damnation" is after the thousand years of Rev.20, then it means to contradict the John 5:28-29 passage, which is our Lord Jesus speaking.

Proper understanding then requires we study further, because we're missing some Truth in God's Word written elsewhere.

And I don't think you and I will get very far on this topic, because you disagree with God's Word by saying there is no resurrection on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming, when in fact that is exactly what the John 5:28-29 Scripture is about!