Curious if God preordained Hitler

Inkfingers said:

Yes.

God is the source of evil - Isaiah 45:7

God makes evil leaders - Exodus 7:3

Evil happens because it is part of God's plan, and it is part of God's plan because it makes good possible - Romans 8:28

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Not so .

Kaon said:

Everything that has happened has already happened.

This "life" is our opportunity to see why we deserve to be in Heaven or Hell - which is why faith is a gift, and you cannot get it on your own accord, but only by the choice of the Most High God.

Hitler was clearly ordained/allowed in this iteration of life, because it happened. Nothing that is outside of the will of the Most High happens.




Wheat has to grow with tares until Harvest (Judgment. ) They will be reaped then - to prevent taking out good wheat when uprooting weeds. This is why "God 'allows' evil."

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There is a difference between "allowing evil ,and Creating evil .

hope said:

Did God knowingly create Hitler? (Jeremiah 1:5 for example)

I'm looking for opinions, as I don't personally even begin to know how to answer this question.

Please provide opinions and thoughts with scripture to back it up, if you are able, or refer to others.

Thank you.

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Romans 13:2
"1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."

What type of leader, ordained by God, is described here? Margaret Thatcher or Hilter? Does this speak lightly or well of Caeser, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Timur, Queen Mary I, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Robert Mugabe, Mao Zedong, Idi Amin, Kim Jong-Il, Chiang Kai-shek of China, Ho Chi Minh, Mengistu Haile Mariam, Tomas de Torquemada, Bassel al-Assad, Bashar al-Assad

zoidar said:

There is no light in him. God letting him exist, why would that make him more "good"?

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Doesn't make him good anymore than any of us are good. Only God is good. Given however that everything that exists, only exists because it is sustained by God, the continued existence of Satan is only because of the goodness of God that he recieves in common with all other things that exist.
If Satan wished to be truly evil then he could (if it is possible to choose such a thing) simply cease to recieve the goodness of God, then no good could be found in him, but then he would cease to exist.

hope said:

if god is good and god is love, then why did he create evil and sin as some have offered as opinions?

how can love and goodness create or even desire to create opposites?

(that may be a whole other thread?)

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How can you have light without darkness, life without death? Until God identified what sin was everything was being considered good.

hope said:

Thank you Andrew Jeremiah....I love the terminology you used here: ...."was contemplated"

Am I an elect then? are you? How many of us are "the elect?"

God created sin.....?

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Are you elect? You tell me. It'll take time for me to discern in accordance with 1 Jn. 4:1.
I am elect. God chose me, I didn't choose Him. When He applied the atonement on my life in 1977 and freed me from the BONDAGE of sin, there was no where else to go. He called and I came.
The number of the elect is fixed. The number of the angels is fixed. I can't tell you who is elect, but if someone claims Christ I will tell you if it's true or lie.

God created man (Adam) sin-ful. There is only One God.
God cannot share, give, pass on, transfer, copy, re-duplicate ANY ASPECT OF HIS DEITY TO ANYONE.
And sinless-ness (which many hold Adam was created as) means God gave His glory to another when Scripture says He does not and I say He cannot. But the Son.....

In the KJV the word "sin" is the Greek "hamartia" which means literally, "to miss the mark" (think archery). God created man sin-ful or "missing the mark" of the glory of God. That's the only way He can create a man. Man sinned. Well, those that say Adam was created sinless have to explain HOW sin can come from sinless-ness, or holiness. God is Holy. How long before God commit a sin since they believe sin comes from holy???

There is only One God.

If Adam possessed any one (sinless) Deific Attributes of God he must also possess ALL Deific Attributes of God or before God that person would fall short of His glory, miss the mark, and there would be TWO GODS.

Let us reason together...Isa. 1:18.

marineimaging said:

How can you have light without darkness, life without death? Until God identified what sin was everything was being considered good.

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Darkness is only the absence of light. It is not a dualism with God.

hope said:

Good question....what does anyone think is the answer to this?

God bless you for helping me grasp these difficult concepts

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I think the answer is positional, not personal.
Whatever personal atributes these leaders have, the position they hold is what is ordained by God.
We are to submit to the position of the leader that is apointed to us irrespective of thier perceived failings, that is our position.
The same advice is given by Paul in respect of Christian slaves.

hope said:

if god is good and god is love, then why did he create evil and sin as some have offered as opinions?

how can love and goodness create or even desire to create opposites?

(that may be a whole other thread?)

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There is only ONE God.
God does not give, share, transfer, reduplicate His Glory (of which is sinlessness, holiness, righteousness, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, All-Wise, etc..) to anyone, or as Scripture says it in the KJV "NONE!"

fat wee robin said:

There is a difference between "allowing evil ,and Creating evil .

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There is, and God doesn't create evil. He allows it to grow until He reaps everything, and separates wheat from chaff.


We underestimate our existence because of several psychological programs we receive from birth, but we are much more than evolutionary circumstances. Ignorance of this does not excuse anything, and we are responsible for much more than we think we are - including developing evil from perfection given to us. God gave us dominion over the entire earth, and the first thing we did with that power is disobey Him.

It is the same way the angels fell - they allowed the intention, and it was found in them. It grew; a bit of leaven is all that is needed, which is why we are charged with sinning even if we think about sin. The intention alone grows into the evil we know.

God does not do this, and He does not make this happen.

Thedictator said:

Romans 13:1-7 No one becomes a leader of a nation without God's providence. All Government leaders are put into power by God.

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So anyone who is trying to destroy President Trump or overthrow the President through impeachment is working against the Will and Power of God Yahweh?

Vengeance is Mine, Saith he LORD!

Get 'em, LORD!

I have a suggestion. Don't ask a question needing an answer about God on here. If you get the right answer you will never know it because the wrong answers will flood the forum until you leave just as confused as when you came. Go to the Word of God in prayer and supplication, seek your answers from the Word, not men. We have been full of pride in our answers and absolutely wrong since Adam first looked at the apple and turned contemplation into action and action into sin.

Andrew Jeremiah said:

So anyone who is trying to destroy President Trump or overthrow the President through impeachment is working against the Will and Power of God Yahweh?

Vengeance is Mine, Saith he LORD!

Get 'em, LORD!

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Anybody who is working within the law to replace Donald Trump is operating in a democracy.
Any American who is seeking to overthrow the President of the United States is working against God.
There is a difference.

Thedictator said:

Romans 13:1-7 No one becomes a leader of a nation without God's providence. All Government leaders are put into power by God.

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God knit Hitler together in his mother's womb.

God ordained Hitler's rise to power in Germany.

God predestined every actions taken by Hitler in his life.

God did not author the sin which Hitler committed in his life.

God predestined each and every thing which happened in the history of His creation.

Predestination in no way negates or dictates the free actions taken by the creatures created in His image.

The predestination of all which happens in His creation does not do away with the free will choices of His creatures. Rather - those choices establish what He has predestined to take place via those choices.

hope said:

Thank you Andrew Jeremiah....I love the terminology you used here: ...."was contemplated"

Am I an elect then? are you? How many of us are "the elect?"

God created sin.....?

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None.

God knew that Hitler's reign would occur because the world is ordered a certain way. He didn't create Hitler for the purpose of doing what he did.