LDS When did the Mormon Jesus become a God?

Shek

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Barney2.0

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Barney2.0

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Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 19:18-19 - New International Version

Toldja...lots of studying you need to do.

Jesus taught the Torah and the Old Testament.

Exodus 20
Jesus commandments are often distinct from the Ten Commandments.
  1. Jn 15:10-12 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love. "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
  2. 1 Cor 14:37 "If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment." Specifically in the context, the prophet's wives were forbidden to ask questions in the assembly. This was called the Lord's commandment, clearly not one of the 10 commandments!
  3. Mt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all that I commanded you". This certainly would include baptism and the Lord's supper!
  4. John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. This commandment was not part of the 10 commandments! 2 John 5 says, "And now I ask you, lady, not as writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another." 1 John 1:1 proves that the beginning was not the garden of Eden, but the words of Jesus in 33 AD. Notice that when Jesus introduced this commandment in 33 A.D. it was new. But John in about 95 AD said it was not new, since Jesus was the originator. When Adventists try to say "love one another" was a summary of part of the ten commandments, the contradict Jesus who said it was New.
  5. 2 Pet 3:2 "that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles"
 
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Barney2.0

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List of Jesus Commandments

"Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19"

Anything that Paul wrote are Paul's words, not Jesus.

God's Laws.

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the Sabbath-day requirement must be operative still, along with perhaps numerous other elements of the Mosaic Law. This assumption is grounded in a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage. Christ did not suggest here that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “abolish.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning “to loosen down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Matthew 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Corinthians 5:1). The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., “to render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to invalidate.”

It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “...not to abolish, but to fulfill.” Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, He revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding Himself (Luke 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10, 13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.

If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ—and thus remains as a binding legal system for today—then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is a totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose. Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.
 
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Shek

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Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

All Paul's words, not Jesus.

It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the Sabbath-day requirement must be operative still, along with perhaps numerous other elements of the Mosaic Law.

Correct...that's what Jesus taught.

You can clearly see in his own commandments that many of them are actually the Lord's commandments.
 
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Barney2.0

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Shek

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It is. And that debate should be occurring in another thread. This one is about Mormonism.

Yep...adios Paul!

Joseph Smith is the topic.

Let's get back to Jesus name in the Book of Mormon.

Who told JS that his name was Jesus?
 
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dzheremi

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To me this entire discussion is highlighting the need for continual revelation from God.

I hardly think an Eastern Orthodox person and a Seventh Day Adventist person disagreeing with one another on the internet substantiates Mormon theology or prophetology, but anyway...

q23y4.jpg


Can any Mormon in this thread please address the thread topic in the context of what Mormonism actually teaches as presented in your lesson manuals, from which I have quoted in posts #49 and again in post #95? I'm trying to figure out what this all means. Thank you.
 
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twin.spin

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http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/paul_invented_christianity.html
I highly disagree....Paul didn't even know Jesus.
This is a debate all by itself.
You can disagree all you want but it's simply not Biblical Christianity to say Paul didn't even know Jesus.

Paul knew:
“I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:11-12).
 
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withwonderingawe

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Considering how Mormonism and Islam are pretty mixed up faith we can obviously tell Joseph Smith and Mohammed lied. Both claimed to receive revelations from an Angel, Moroni with Joseph Smith and “Gabriel” with Mohammed.

Angels can't talk to us?
 
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Shek

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why should there be an angel named Moroni in the OT?

With any Biblical text, you need supporting texts from other eyewitness accounts.

Our own justice system works on the basis of Deuteronomy 19:15

So when you have a claimed prophet of God talking about an unknown angel...you're absolutely going to need supporting eyewitness testimony that can be authenticated and corroborated with the Old Testament.

Since the angel Moroni does not correlate with angelic (pronunciations) in the Hebrew Bible (servants of the Lord end with "El") then Moroni is a huge problem.....

Angels don't have names in the OT. Angels that serve the Lord identify themselves by rank....so if an angel is giving his name, he's not in the service of the Lord.

And I don't think that I have to tell you what that means, do I?

Refer back to post #100 for a clear explanation.
 
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Jane_Doe

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With any Biblical text, you need supporting texts from other eyewitness accounts.

Our own justice system works on the basis of Deuteronomy 19:15

So when you have a claimed prophet of God talking about an unknown angel...you're absolutely going to need supporting eyewitness testimony that can be authenticated and corroborated with the Old Testament.

Since the angel Moroni does not correlate with angelic (pronunciations) in the Hebrew Bible (servants of the Lord end with "El") then Moroni is a huge problem.....

Angels don't have names in the OT. Angels that serve the Lord identify themselves by rank....so if an angel is giving his name, he's not in the service of the Lord.

And I don't think that I have to tell you what that means, do I?
(Speaking from the LDS perspective, respectfully acknowledging other folks have other perspectives)

This argument doesn't make any sense. Looking in the OT for the name of a person who lived in the America's in 400 AD doesn't make any sense. You're also focusing on one man, and ignoring the Son of God discussion.

@Shek , if a person is truly interested in getting another witness as to whether or not Moroni existed or any LDS claim (like that Jesus Christ is the Son of God), then the proper course of action would be to read the book yourself and ask God if it's True. Get His witness from the Holy Spirit-- that's the source of Truth. Not man.
 
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Rescued One

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To me this entire discussion is highlighting the need for continual revelation from God.

It doesn't highlight the need for replacing God's words and ignoring the Holy Spirit as Joseph Smith did.
 
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