LDS Mormons and the Bible

mmksparbud

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The Bible is also written by prophets of God. The Book of Mormon is the truth from God.


Except that JS is not a prophet of God. Any prophet still has to
Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
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mmksparbud

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The JST is from God.

No it is not. It goes against God. God was never a man before becoming God--He always was God--He didn't become God. He did not have a father, He gave Adam and Eve permission, infarct, commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and they did not need the help of Satan to fall and therefore be able to have children--that is a slap to the face of God to thank Satan for children that are a blessing from God!
We never existed before being born, there is no heavenly mother, Jesus is not the brother of Satan, He is his creator, many if his prophecies did not come true and never will, he claims that his approval is needed for anyone to enter exaltation--there is no exaltation and we do not tell God where anyone goes! No prophet of God goes against the Word of God

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

He is not a prophet of God.
 
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withwonderingawe

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In Rom 3 Paul starts quoting the Old Testament as source material;

Ps 14….there is none that doeth good.
2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Ps 5
9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

Rom 3
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Isa 59
7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

Rom 3
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

What he has done is to draw from the Old Testament to build his argument, he’s writing commentary. If someone sitting in the Sanhedrin back in those days had seen how he took the scriptures and woven them into saying

“20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: …
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

They would jump up and down, call him a false prophet and try to stone him.
 
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He is the way

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That does not explain the reason for the error. It is understood that you prefer the word of JS to the word God.
I choose doing good over doing evil. I choose kindness and works of love and charity. When we are in the service of our fellow man we are in the service of our God.
 
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He is the way

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No it is not. It goes against God. God was never a man before becoming God--He always was God--He didn't become God. He did not have a father, He gave Adam and Eve permission, infarct, commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and they did not need the help of Satan to fall and therefore be able to have children--that is a slap to the face of God to thank Satan for children that are a blessing from God!
We never existed before being born, there is no heavenly mother, Jesus is not the brother of Satan, He is his creator, many if his prophecies did not come true and never will, he claims that his approval is needed for anyone to enter exaltation--there is no exaltation and we do not tell God where anyone goes! No prophet of God goes against the Word of God

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

He is not a prophet of God.
Some people say that they are saved, but we don't tell God where anyone goes. Jesus Christ is the judge and He is our mediator with the Father. Have you done any good in the world today? Have you helped anyone in need? Have you cheered up the sad or made someone feel glad because this is what the gospel of Jesus Christ is about.
 
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He is the way

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No it is not. It goes against God. God was never a man before becoming God--He always was God--He didn't become God. He did not have a father, He gave Adam and Eve permission, infarct, commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and they did not need the help of Satan to fall and therefore be able to have children--that is a slap to the face of God to thank Satan for children that are a blessing from God!
We never existed before being born, there is no heavenly mother, Jesus is not the brother of Satan, He is his creator, many if his prophecies did not come true and never will, he claims that his approval is needed for anyone to enter exaltation--there is no exaltation and we do not tell God where anyone goes! No prophet of God goes against the Word of God

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

He is not a prophet of God.
When Jesus said "Ye are Gods" people refused to believe His doctrine, and they still refuse to believe it today. People don't even believe that God is our literal Father or that we are like Him even though the Bible states this:
(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
(New Testament | Matthew 23:9)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Answer me this, Is God male? If so why? How many fathers do you know where there is no mother? Why was Satan called the "son" of the morning?
It seems to me that every time more information is given about God people refuse to believe it. That being said, the gospel of Jesus Christ is about LOVE. Don't get sidetracked on other things, do God's will and do good.
 
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mmksparbud

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When Jesus said "Ye are Gods" people refused to believe His doctrine, and they still refuse to believe it today. People don't even believe that God is our literal Father or that we are like Him even though the Bible states this:
(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
(New Testament | Matthew 23:9)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Answer me this, Is God male? If so why? How many fathers do you know where there is no mother? Why was Satan called the "son" of the morning?
It seems to me that every time more information is given about God people refuse to believe it. That being said, the gospel of Jesus Christ is about LOVE. Don't get sidetracked on other things, do God's will and do good.

What JS did not understand is the concept of God by the Jews--He was all that is male and all that is female. That is why in the early pictographs He was pictured as an oxen--with breasts--He is the nourisher of His people. JS took it to a heavenly mother instead. To be expected rom a false prophet.
And you be sure to tell God when you stand before Him, that you did not think keeping His 4th commandment was as important as He thinks it is and JS didn't think so either. Let me know how that works for you.
 
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He is the way

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What JS did not understand is the concept of God by the Jews--He was all that is male and all that is female. That is why in the early pictographs He was pictured as an oxen--with breasts--He is the nourisher of His people. JS took it to a heavenly mother instead. To be expected rom a false prophet.
And you be sure to tell God when you stand before Him, that you did not think keeping His 4th commandment was as important ad He thinks it is and JS didn't think so either. Let me know how that works for you.
I believe that God the Father is strictly male and indeed a Father. Not only is He the Father of spirits, but He is also the Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh.
 
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Rescued One

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Doctrine and Covenants 132
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.


Christian Keep Calm.jpg

Isaiah 45
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else...

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Jeremiah 10
10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
 
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mmksparbud

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I believe that God the Father is strictly male and indeed a Father. Not only is He the Father of spirits, but He is also the Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh.

What you and JS think is not the issue--It is what the bible says and that the Jews had a concept of who and what God is and how they conveyed that image. Let us make man in our image--male and female--

The Nature of God (Elohim)
The Masculine and Feminine nature of Elohim

In our modern culture we tend to view God in masculine terms and imagery. While the word Elohim (Strong's #430), the plural form of the singular noun elo'ah (Strong's #433), is a masculine noun, it does not have to imply that the Elohim is plural or even masculine. To illustrate this, notice that the word Elohim is used for a female goddess in the following verse.

For Solomon went after Ash'toreth the goddess [Elohim] of the Sido'nians. (1Ki 11:5, RSV)
In the first chapter of Genesis we receive our first glimpse of the nature of Elohim's gender.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27, KJV)
Notice that in this verse it states that Elohim made humans in his image, but then it defines this image as male and female. From this we can conclude that the attributes of God are both masculine and feminine. We can then surmise that he placed his masculine attributes within the man and his feminine attributes within the woman and when a man and woman come together and become one (See Genesis 2:24), they together become the image of Elohim.

Another reference to the masculine and feminine nature of God can be found in the following passages.

Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. (Psalms 24:10, KJV)

Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. (Psalms 41:13, KJV)

In the first verse is the phrase "LORD of hosts," which in Hebrew is Yahweh Tseva'ot. The word tseva'ot is the plural of the word tsava (Strong's #6635), a feminine noun meaning "force." When two nouns are placed together they are in the construct state, therefore this phrase would be translated as "Yahweh of the forces."

In the second verse is the phrase "LORD God," which in Hebrew is Yahweh Elohim." The word Elohim means "one of power and authority," or simply "powers." Again, this phrase consists of two nouns put together to form a construct and should be translated as "Yahweh of the powers." I should note here that the phrase "LORD God" not only ignores the Hebrew word "Yahweh," which does not mean "lord," but also the construct nature of the phrase. In Hebrew grammar two nouns put together always form a construct, usually identified in the English language with the word "of," and to my knowledge, nowhere else in the Bible are two nouns not translated in the construct state.

Notice that the two phrases Yahweh Tseva'ot and Yahweh Elohim are synonyms, one using a feminine plural word meaning "forces," the other a masculine plural word meaning "powers."

Also note that Yahweh is not the tseva'ot but a part of it, Yahweh is a part of the "forces," hence the usual translation of "LORD of hosts." In the same manner, Yahweh is not the Elohim, but a part of it, a part of the powers. But notice that while the translators will consistently use "LORD of hosts" for Yahweh Tseva'ot, they never use "LORD of powers" for the phrase Yahweh Elohim.

The idea of a single male deity is unique to our modern era. In all the ancient cultures, the Elohim was a male and female. In Egypt it was Osiris (masculine) and Isis (feminine). In Canaan it was El and Elat (also known as Asherah). To the Greeks it was Zeus and Hera. To the Romans it was Jupiter and Juno. To the Germans it was Odin and Frigg. I am not making the claim that the Elohim of the bible are a god and goddess, just that the attributes of Elohim are both masculine and feminine.

 
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mmksparbud

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don't understand why there are lines over the passage--weird. Not in the original.

more on the subject, same source

In English we use masculine (he), feminine (she) and neuter (it). But, in Hebrew all things are either masculine or feminine, there is no neuter. So, we may say "it is a tree" in Hebrew it would be "hu ets" (he is a tree). All things in Hebrew are either masculine or feminine. God is neither male nor female but he is both. This may sound contradictory but the Hebrew mind often seems contradictory from our perspective of western thought.


In Genesis it states that God created both male and female in his image, I do not believe this is speaking in physical terms but in character. The male received half of God's character while the female received the other half, hence marriage is the bringing of the two together to make a whole. Since God has the character or quality of both male and female it is grammatically mandated that it be identified in the masculine form for the following reason.


The Hebrew word for boy is yeled, the Hebrew word for boys is yelediym. The Hebrew word for girl is yal'dah and the Hebrew word for girls is yeledot. But if the group of children is boys and girls you always use the masculine form yelediym. The masculine form always takes over if the group is of both masculine and feminine.
 
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He is the way

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Doctrine and Covenants 132
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.


Isaiah 45
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else...

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Jeremiah 10
10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

I am not sure what your point is. I have read the Bible and I know that Jesus Christ covenanted with Israel to be their only God and Savior so I don't have a problem with that. Are you ready to come back to the fold?
 
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He is the way

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What you and JS think is not the issue--It is what the bible says and that the Jews had a concept of who and what God is and how they conveyed that image. Let us make man in our image--male and female--

The Nature of God (Elohim)
The Masculine and Feminine nature of Elohim

In our modern culture we tend to view God in masculine terms and imagery. While the word Elohim (Strong's #430), the plural form of the singular noun elo'ah (Strong's #433), is a masculine noun, it does not have to imply that the Elohim is plural or even masculine. To illustrate this, notice that the word Elohim is used for a female goddess in the following verse.

For Solomon went after Ash'toreth the goddess [Elohim] of the Sido'nians. (1Ki 11:5, RSV)
In the first chapter of Genesis we receive our first glimpse of the nature of Elohim's gender.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27, KJV)
Notice that in this verse it states that Elohim made humans in his image, but then it defines this image as male and female. From this we can conclude that the attributes of God are both masculine and feminine. We can then surmise that he placed his masculine attributes within the man and his feminine attributes within the woman and when a man and woman come together and become one (See Genesis 2:24), they together become the image of Elohim.

Another reference to the masculine and feminine nature of God can be found in the following passages.

Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. (Psalms 24:10, KJV)

Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. (Psalms 41:13, KJV)

In the first verse is the phrase "LORD of hosts," which in Hebrew is Yahweh Tseva'ot. The word tseva'ot is the plural of the word tsava (Strong's #6635), a feminine noun meaning "force." When two nouns are placed together they are in the construct state, therefore this phrase would be translated as "Yahweh of the forces."

In the second verse is the phrase "LORD God," which in Hebrew is Yahweh Elohim." The word Elohim means "one of power and authority," or simply "powers." Again, this phrase consists of two nouns put together to form a construct and should be translated as "Yahweh of the powers." I should note here that the phrase "LORD God" not only ignores the Hebrew word "Yahweh," which does not mean "lord," but also the construct nature of the phrase. In Hebrew grammar two nouns put together always form a construct, usually identified in the English language with the word "of," and to my knowledge, nowhere else in the Bible are two nouns not translated in the construct state.

Notice that the two phrases Yahweh Tseva'ot and Yahweh Elohim are synonyms, one using a feminine plural word meaning "forces," the other a masculine plural word meaning "powers."

Also note that Yahweh is not the tseva'ot but a part of it, Yahweh is a part of the "forces," hence the usual translation of "LORD of hosts." In the same manner, Yahweh is not the Elohim, but a part of it, a part of the powers. But notice that while the translators will consistently use "LORD of hosts" for Yahweh Tseva'ot, they never use "LORD of powers" for the phrase Yahweh Elohim.

The idea of a single male deity is unique to our modern era. In all the ancient cultures, the Elohim was a male and female. In Egypt it was Osiris (masculine) and Isis (feminine). In Canaan it was El and Elat (also known as Asherah). To the Greeks it was Zeus and Hera. To the Romans it was Jupiter and Juno. To the Germans it was Odin and Frigg. I am not making the claim that the Elohim of the bible are a god and goddess, just that the attributes of Elohim are both masculine and feminine.
We are all children of God some male and some female. God the Father and His Son are completely male. There is nothing female about them. Jesus said:
(New Testament | John 14:8 - 9)

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
And we have this:
(New Testament | Revelation 12:5)

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 
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don't understand why there are lines over the passage--weird. Not in the original.

more on the subject, same source

In English we use masculine (he), feminine (she) and neuter (it). But, in Hebrew all things are either masculine or feminine, there is no neuter. So, we may say "it is a tree" in Hebrew it would be "hu ets" (he is a tree). All things in Hebrew are either masculine or feminine. God is neither male nor female but he is both. This may sound contradictory but the Hebrew mind often seems contradictory from our perspective of western thought.


In Genesis it states that God created both male and female in his image, I do not believe this is speaking in physical terms but in character. The male received half of God's character while the female received the other half, hence marriage is the bringing of the two together to make a whole. Since God has the character or quality of both male and female it is grammatically mandated that it be identified in the masculine form for the following reason.


The Hebrew word for boy is yeled, the Hebrew word for boys is yelediym. The Hebrew word for girl is yal'dah and the Hebrew word for girls is yeledot. But if the group of children is boys and girls you always use the masculine form yelediym. The masculine form always takes over if the group is of both masculine and feminine.
The Bible states:
(Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
The scripture stated that God created MAN in his image. It says he created male and female but it does NOT say the female is in His image. You are reading something into the scripture that is not there. Daughters are NOT in the image of their fathers.
 
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The Bible states:
(Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
The scripture stated that God created MAN in his image. It says he created male and female but it does NOT say the female is in His image. You are reading something into the scripture that is not there. Daughters are NOT in the image of their fathers.

Neither you nor JS have any idea of the Hebrew concepts, which just further demonstrates the JS is not a prophet of God.
 
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I am not sure what your point is. I have read the Bible and I know that Jesus Christ covenanted with Israel to be their only God and Savior so I don't have a problem with that. Are you ready to come back to the fold?

Mormons substitute the word know for believe frequently. Mormonism is not from God.
 
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To us the concepts of God are more important than the Hebrew concepts.
LOL!!! those are the concepts that God gave! That is why you guys can't figure anything out--you have no concept of what the bible is at all! It is through the Jew that God spoke but you take the word of a man born several 1000 years later instead of the divinely inspired word of God. There is no truth in you! It is you that needs to come back to the fold, you have nothing but false doctrines because they are not of God--you do not know Him, and if you do not know Him---no matter how much you call on His name, in the end, you will hear:
Mat_7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You will stand before Him saying: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And it will be for naught. That will be so very sad.
 
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