The New In The New Covenant

WebersHome · May 21, 2018

-
● Jer 31:31-34 . . Behold, the days are coming, declares The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares The Lord.

. . . But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares The Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying "know The Lord" for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares The Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The original covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God under oath contains a number of curses for non compliance. They're on display at Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69.

Those curses are covenanted, i.e. they're contractual; which means that when the Jews, as a people, fail to comply with the covenant, God is obligated to slam them with any number of misfortunes including throwing them to the wolves, e.g. Nebuchadnezzar.

The new covenant contains no curses of a contractual nature; viz: God isn't obligated to slam its participants for non compliance.
_

HypnoToad · May 21, 2018

WebersHome said:
The new covenant contains no curses of a contractual nature; viz: God isn't obligated to slam its participants for non compliance.

Can't "whoever does not believe will be condemned" be seen as "God obligated to slam its participants for non compliance"?

Tree of Life · May 21, 2018

That’s not what’s emphasized as “new” in the passages that speak of the new covenant. What’s “new” is that God will write his laws on the hearts of his people. In other words, the difference between the old and new covenant, at least from the perspective of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, is that God’s people will obey the stipulations of the covenant by God’s power.

WebersHome · May 21, 2018

-

HypnoToad said:
Can't "whoever does not believe will be condemned" be seen as "God obligated to slam its participants for non compliance"?

Participation in the new covenant is restricted to believers. Whoever does not believe is denied admission. (John 3:18)
_

LittleLambofJesus · May 21, 2018

Tree of Life said:
That’s not what’s emphasized as “new” in the passages that speak of the new covenant. What’s “new” is that God will write his laws on the hearts of his people. In other words, the difference between the old and new covenant, at least from the perspective of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, is that God’s people will obey the stipulations of the covenant by God’s power.

That brings to mind Luke 5 and Hebrews 8:

Did Christ come to establish a New or Renewed Covenant with Israel?

Luke 5:
37 "And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into Old skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young/neoV <3501>wine, of the skins,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young/neon <3501> wine into New/kainouV <2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 and no one driking Old immediately is willing Young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying `New/kainhn <2537>,' He hath made Old/pepalaiwken <3822> (5758) the first.
The yet being aged/palaioumenon <3822> (5746) and being obsolete/ghraskon <1095> (5723) nigh of disappearance.

Genesis 1:1 (YLT)
STRONGS NT 2537: καινός
καινός, καινή, καινόν (from Aeschylus and Herodotus down); the Sept. for חָדָשׁ; new, i. e. a. as respects form; recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn (opposed to παλαιός old, antiquated): as ἀσκός, Matthew 9:11; Mark 2:22 (T omits; Tr WH brackets the clause); Luke 5:38 ἱμάτιον, Luke 5:36; πλήρωμα, Mark 2:21; μνημεῖον, Matthew 27:60; with ἐν ᾧ οὐδέπω οὐδείς ἐτέθη added, John 19:41; καινά καί παλαιά, Matthew 13:52; new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds

Out with the Old Temple, in with the New Temple............

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies are upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)..

......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins ; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event,............

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely leveled the whole circuit of the City, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.....

Reve 14:8
And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

HypnoToad · May 22, 2018

WebersHome said:
-
Participation in the new covenant is restricted to believers. Whoever does not believe is denied admission. (John 3:18)
_

I don't see John 3:18 saying what you claim it says. Where's the "they are outside the covenant" part? It says God loved "the world" that He gave His Son. Sounds kinda like everyone is part of the covenant - those in the covenant who believe will be saved, those in the covenant who don't believe are condemned. 1 John 2:2 says Jesus' sacrifice was NOT just for us, but for "the whole world". Kinda sounds like everyone is involved in the covenant in one way or another.

fhansen · May 22, 2018

Tree of Life said:
That’s not what’s emphasized as “new” in the passages that speak of the new covenant. What’s “new” is that God will write his laws on the hearts of his people. In other words, the dinifference between the old and new covenant, at least from the perspective of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, is that God’s people will obey the stipulations of the covenant by God’s power.

Yes, and that they will know Him, from the least to the greatest, speaking of an intimate, personal knowledge, a communion with God, 'apart from whom we can do nothing' to paraphrase John 15:5. This knowledge is the essence of faith, both a reliance on God to produce righteousness in me, to place His law in my mind and write it on my heart, but, more deeply, and distinctive of this covenant, a direct relationship with Him that makes this work of justification possible.

bcbsr · May 22, 2018

WebersHome said:
-
● Jer 31:31-34 . . Behold, the days are coming, declares The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares The Lord.

. . . But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares The Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying "know The Lord" for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares The Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The original covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God under oath contains a number of curses for non compliance. They're on display at Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69.

Those curses are covenanted, i.e. they're contractual; which means that when the Jews, as a people, fail to comply with the covenant, God is obligated to slam them with any number of misfortunes including throwing them to the wolves, e.g. Nebuchadnezzar.

The new covenant contains no curses of a contractual nature; viz: God isn't obligated to slam its participants for non compliance.
_

Not only so, but as you can see there are no conditions. God only says what he will do.

1. Regeneration of the Mind
2. Regeneration of the Desires
3. A personal relationship with God (implemented by proxy with the Holy Spirit)
4. Unconditional forgiveness (no conditions given)

What is implied and later stated explicitly in the New Testament that one enters this covenant by faith apart from works.

WebersHome · May 22, 2018

.
Another thing different in the new covenant (very different) is the nature of its high priesthood.

NOTE: A biblical high priesthood doesn't consist of a guild of priests, i.e. it's an office held by only one man at a time; typically to his death.

The new covenant's high priesthood is patterned after a man in the Old Testament named Melchizedek (Gen 14:18-20). Mel isn't a precise rendition of the new covenant's high priesthood; he's only what's known as a "type" i.e. an analogy.

In my opinion, the one thing about Mel that really stands out is his superiority over Aaron's high priesthood. In other words: Mel's high priesthood trumps Aaron's; viz: in situations where Aaron's law and Melchizedek's law conflict, Mel's law is the rule. (Heb 7:4-10)

A very important thing about Mel is the era in which he lived. Mel was contemporary with Abraham, which was something like 400+ years prior to the institution of the old covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

That's a tremendous advantage because biblical law isn't retroactive viz: it doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction (Deut 5:2-4, Gal 3:17); which means that none of the old covenant's curses for non compliance applied to either Mel or to his constituents; which, at the time, included Abraham. Good thing too because Abe married his half sister; a death offense within the jurisdiction of the old covenant. (Lev 20:17)

Christ is the new covenant's high priest and his office is patterned after Melchizedek's (Ps 110:4, Heb 5:4-6) which means of course that, like as Mel's, Christ's constituents are in no danger of the old covenant's curses.

Christ will always be the new covenant's high priest because unlike Aaron, Christ is immortal (Rom 6:9). Ergo: Christ's constituents will never, ever, be in danger of the old covenant's curses; from now on till time without end.

_

WebersHome · May 23, 2018

.
The details of Yom Kippur as per Lev 23:27-32, Lev 16:29-34, and Num 29:7 don't really matter all that much to Christians because the New Testament only concerns itself with the ritual's limitations.

One of Yom Kippur's purposes is to remind the people that their sins are still on the books; even sins for which they offered regular sacrifices all during the year. (Heb 10:1-3)

The problem is: the covenant's sacrifices obtain pardons and forgiveness and cleansing for the people, but the sacrifices aren't sufficient to obtain innocence for them nor to get their records wiped clean. In other words; Yom Kippur may obtain forgiveness, pardon, and cleansing for dishonesty; but on the books the offender will still be listed as a liar. (Ex 34:6-7, Nah 1:3)

And on top of that, the very moment the ritual ends, people begin accumulating new sins towards the next Yom Kippur so there's never really a moment when the people are guiltless.

So then, Yom Kippurs are endless; one is never enough because the ritual is always for the past, never for the future. In other words; Yom Kippurs are always catching up with the people's sins instead of getting out ahead of them.

The new covenant doesn't have an extensive sacrificial system, nor does it have an endless parade of annual rituals like Yom Kippur. It had but one sacrifice; just one, and it's good for all time. In other words: the new covenant's sacrifice isn't only for past sins, but also for sins of the future that people haven't even committed yet. Isaiah 53:6 is past tense, i.e. done.

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Jehovah has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

Plus, the new covenant's sacrifice is sufficient to get the people off their perpetual guilt trip because it not only obtains pardons and forgiveness and cleansing, but also an acquittal and a complete wipe; something nobody gets from the first covenant.

FAQ: Doesn't Yom Kippur's scapegoat effect a wipe?

A: The soul that sins, it shall die, i.e. the wages of sin is death (Ezek 18:20, Rom 6:23). Well; the scapegoat is allowed to live rather than executed, so justice for the worshippers' sins remains pending; hanging over their heads like a sword of Damocles.

The scapegoat is commonly interpreted to be Jesus; but he was executed. No, I'm pretty sure in my own mind that the scapegoat represents not Jesus, but the worshippers; and the scapegoat, in my estimation, should be called an escaping goat; i.e. a fugitive.

FYI: Never wish Jewish people a pleasant Yom Kippur. It's okay to wish them a satisfactory Yom Kippur but never a pleasant one because it is not a day of pleasure like Christmas and birthdays; no, it is specifically a day of sadness and self-affliction as per Lev 16:29-31, Lev 16:31, Lev 23:27, and Lev 23:32, which is from a Hebrew word meaning to mistreat, humiliate, oppress, break the spirit, demean, abuse, weaken, injure, abase, etc. Jews that fail to be unhappy on that day accrue an instant curse upon themselves as per Deut 27:26.
_

WebersHome · May 24, 2018

.
_ Switching To The New Covenant _

● Matt 5:18 . .Verily, I say unto you: Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Christ's statement reveals that the Jews can't just walk away from the covenant that their ancestors agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy without first fulfilling this one particular curse:

● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.

The apostle Paul posted a reminder of that curse in one of his epistles.

● Gal 3:10 . . Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.

Note the grammatical tense of the curse; it's present tense rather than future, indicating that curses for non compliance are instant; no delay and no waiting period-- "cursed be" is right now. For example:

● Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, nor lie to one another.

Every time a Jew breaks that law they incur a curse upon themselves; and those curses have a way of piling up. Let's say a Jew racks up 100 counts of dishonesty during their lifetime. Well; that's 100 curses that they need to clear off the books before they can be freed to sign on with the new covenant.

Seeing as how there has been neither a Temple nor a fully functioning priesthood on duty in Jerusalem since Titus destroyed the place in 70ad, then every dishonest Jew since then has had no way to get their accrued curses mitigated in a covenanted manner.

In God's judicious estimation, the only satisfactory alternative, in lieu of slamming the offender, is to lay the blame on a suitable substitute.

● Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Jehovah has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

NOTE: The suitable substitute has to be willing of course or the whole business would be a ritual murder.

FAQ: According to Ezek 18:20, people have to pay for their own sins; i.e. another cannot take their blame nor die nor in their place. How then was Christ's sacrifice a legitimate stand-in for the sins of the entire world?

A: The secret is in the timing.

According to 1Pet 1:20, Rev 13:8, and Rev 17:8, Jesus Christ was put on track to satisfy justice for the sins of the world prior to the creation of the cosmos.

According to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17, biblical law isn't retroactive viz: it doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction.

So then, seeing as how Jesus Christ was tagged to pay for the sins of the world many, many years prior to Ezekiel's proclamation . . .

BTW: Were Ezek 18:20 to successfully rule out Jesus, it would also rule out the man spoken of in Isa 53:6 whoever he might be.
_

WebersHome · May 25, 2018

.
_ Gentiles And The New Covenant _

"The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ" (Gal 3:24)

The koiné Greek word for "schoolmaster" is paidagogos (pahee-dag-o-gos') which defines not a headmaster, nor a teacher, nor a tutor. It essentially defines a servant whose responsibility it was to get their master's children to school. In other words: a sort of chaperone who made sure the kids got there; even if the servant had to take them by the hand to do it.

The "law" to which the writer refers is the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Although Gentiles per se aren't covenanted with God to comply with that law, it's useful for revealing His feelings about certain kinds of behavior.

● Rom 3:20 . . For by the law is the knowledge of sin.

When informed Gentiles ignore the law after being told what it is; then they become scofflaws; and that has serious consequences.

● Num 15:30-31 . .The person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles the Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has spurned the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt.

Take for example David's acts of premeditated murder and adultery in the matter of Uriah and his wife Bathsheba. Those were deliberated sins; and in accordance with Num 15:30-31 there is neither pardon nor forgiveness available for them; in point of fact, there are no sacrifices for them either.

● Ps 51:16 . .You would not be pleased with sacrifices, or I would bring them. If I brought you a burnt offering, you would not accept it.

● Heb 10:26 . . If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left

Most Gentiles will never commit the sins of premeditated murder and adultery, but there is a sin that I'd be willing to bet every Gentile commits sooner or later at some time in their life; maybe even multiple times.

● Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, nor lie to one another.

Once a Gentile is made aware that their maker frowns upon dishonesty, henceforth they get cut off in accordance with Num 15:30-31 when they disobey Lev 19:11.

So; what might "cut off" amount to? Well; for one: no dishonesty will be allowed in the holy city foretold in the book of Revelation.

● Rev 21:27 . . No one who practices lying shall ever come into it

● Rev 22:14-15 . . Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are whoever loves and practices a lie.

The schoolmaster's task then; is to instill fear in dishonesty, and make Gentiles aware that if they opt to take their chances, and stand before God to be judged on their own merits; that they haven't the slightest, slimmest possibility of coming away unscathed. It's a 110% forgone conclusion that they will come away dead.

● Rev 21:8 . . All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

So; why does the schoolmaster bring Gentiles to Christ?

Well; his sacrifice is above the law because it was established before the law (1Pet 1:20, Rev 13:8, and Rev 17:8) and it's effective for deliberate sins. In other words: Christ is the one and only safety net for willful dishonesty.

● Acts 13:39 . .Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

The Greek word translated "justified" is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o) which essentially means to declare someone innocent, i.e. exonerated.

How does God exonerate people when they're 110% guilty as charged without committing a miscarriage of justice? Well; that just goes to show how effective Christ's crucifixion really is. It not only adequately satisfies justice for people's sins, but also defends God from allegations of judicial misconduct. (Rom 3:25)

FYI: It's commonly wondered how God was able to forgive David's terrible sins seeing as how the first covenant allows neither pardon, nor forgiveness, nor sacrifices for them. Well; that was easy peasy lemon squeezy. God laid David's willful sins on Christ and satisfied justice for them there. (Rom 3:23-26)

Jesus said that Abraham knew about Christ (John 8:56). He also said that David wrote about him (Mark 12:35-37). The prophets too. (Luke 24:25-27, Luke 24:44, and 1Pet 1:10-11).

So then, Christians ought not to think of themselves at the forefront of belief in Christ. Plenty of Old Testament luminaries believed in him before they did; even old Jacob. (Gen 49:18)
_

fhansen · May 25, 2018

The big problem, IMO, is when we see the New Covenant as a means to be excused from justice, righteousness, obedience rather than the authentic means to finally acheiving it. Rather than viewing ourselves as incapable of obedience, as if God created us to be sinners, we view ourselves as incapable of obedience apart from communion with God, the true source of righteousness for man, the only One who can justify us.

WebersHome · May 27, 2018

.
_ The Inner Self _

● Jer 31:33 . . I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.

I'm pretty sure that verse should be interpreted by this one:

● Ezek 36:26-27 . . I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

What we're looking at in those passages is not so much memorization, but a miraculous transformation in the core of one's being. In other words; law written on tables of stone is a code of rules and regulations to live by, while law written in the mind and on the heart speaks of intuition, predilections, and proclivities to live by.

In a nutshell: Everybody comes into the world living in accordance human nature. The new covenant promises to remove human nature from its beneficiaries and replace it with the nature of God which enables people to think, feel, act, and speak in ways that satisfy Him without their even thinking about it. (Col 2:11-13)

The divine nature isn't a pipe dream. Peter wrote about it.

● 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life and piety through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Somebody is probably wondering why in tarnation didn't God just create Adam with divine nature to begin with?! Well; I haven't a clue what God was thinking but it sure seems to my human mind that the world would've been a whole lots better off had He done so.

"Who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." (1Cor 2:11)
_

The New In The New Covenant

Well-Known Member

*croak*

Hide The Pain

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

*croak*

Oldbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

croak

croak