7th Trumpet Rapture?

jgr said:

You're right that ethnicity doesn't get them into covenant. Only faith and obedience do that.

You say "back in covenant". Do you mean back in the old (dead) covenant?

If ethnicity doesn't get them into the nation, what does?

And what does ethnicity get them into, if anything?

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jgr,

1. I already said the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13 has not been fulfilled yet.

2. The promise of the land and the throne is to the ethnic Jews who are saved under the New Covenant.
Really the land already belongs to Israel. God is waiting on Israel and Judah to be saved.
It will take the time of Jacob’s trouble to turn them around. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

Are you mad because there are different positions of authority in the church. Answer that! Jerry kelso

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When the Second Coming occurs, there are only two positions of authority in the Church.
There is Christ and then everyone else.
I could not be happier about this fact.

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jerry kelso said:

1. I already said the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13 has not been fulfilled yet.

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Is it fulfilled for a Jew who receives Christ today?

keras said:

Here is the destiny of the people group we call Israelis, who call themselves Jews, but are not real Jews; not Israelites of the heart:

Ezekiel 21:2-7 Son of man, set your face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. My sword will be drawn against everyone from the Negev to the North, it will kill both the righteous and wicked alike. All courage will fail – it will surely take place.

Ezekiel 21:10-14 My sword is sharpened to kill, even the scepter of My Royal Son. Testing will surely come and what if the scepter of Judah, which the sword despises, does not continue? Swing the sword three times, the great sword of slaughter.
[1st time – 585BC, 2nd time - 69/70AD, 3rd time- to come, by the Lord Himself]

Jeremiah 8:5-12 Judah has no remorse or repentance, How can you say: We have the Law, when your scribes have falsified it? For all, high and low are out for ill-gotten gain, your prophets and rabbis are frauds, every one of them. This wicked race would rather die than live. They say: All is well; no, nothing is well, they will all fall with a great crash on the Day of Reckoning. You will be as dung spread on the ground. Then, I will give the Land to new owners.

Ezekiel 16:35-63 Listen you harlot: Because of your brazen excesses...I shall bring you to trial for adultery and murder...You must bear the consequences of your lewd and abominable conduct, I shall treat you as you deserve, because you violated an oath and made light of a covenant.
You will remember and be so ashamed and humiliated that you will never open your mouth again. [after the Lord’s punishment and pardon]

Amos 2:4-5 For the crimes of Judah, there will be no reprieve, they have spurned the Law of the Lord and have not observed His decrees. They have followed false gods. Therefore I shall send fire on Judah, fire will consume them.

Hosea 8:14And for you, Judah, a harvest of reckoning will come, I will send fire onto your cities

Zephaniah 1:4-6 Judah will be judged and those who have neither sought the Lord, nor enquired of Him, will be wiped out.

Obadiah 1:15-16 The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the nations....you too will drink the cup of wrath that My people, Judah, must drink on My Holy mountain.

Jeremiah 19:11 I shall smash this people, as a clay jar is smashed beyond repair. There will be no room left to bury them all.

Jeremiah 21:11-14 To the Royal House of Judah....I shall punish you as you deserve. I shall set fire to your scrubland, it will consume everything around about.

Ezekiel 20:46-47...I am about to kindle a fire in the Negev....it will burn everyone in the Land.

Zechariah 13:8-9 It will happen throughout the Land, that 2/3 of the people will die. The 1/3 left will pass through the refining fire. They will call on Me and I will answer them....
Isaiah 9:18-19 Wicked men have been set ablaze. The Land is scorched and the people are fuel for the fire.

Jeremiah 13:19 The towns in the Negev are besieged, no one can relieve them. Judah has been swept clean away.

Isaiah 4:3-4 The remnant of Judah will be called holy when the Lord cleanses Zion by a Spirit of judgement burning like fire.

Luke 19:27 As for those enemies of Mine, who did not want Me for their King, bring them here and slaughter them

Matthew 27:25 His blood be upon us and our children.

Matthew 21:41-43 The King will bring those criminals to justice and destroy them. Therefore the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will bear its fruit.
Reference: REB. NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.

These prophesies have not been fulfilled. They will be as the Lord judges and punishes all who reject Jesus. Only a small remnant of them will survive.
Your beliefs , Jerry Kelso are wrong and you compound your errors by judging your fellow Christians. Janes 4:11-12

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keras,

1. Unsaved Jews will not be a part of Israel and Judah in the KoH reign on earth. That is nothing new. Roman’s 11:26 says, so “All Israel will be saved. “
Ezekiel 37 shows Israel and Judah will be one stick and not be separated any more.

2. David will be the prince of Israel forever Ezekiel 37:25.
Ezekiel 37:16-28 proves you wrong.
The believing remnant will have its part Revelation 12:17- 11:13.
Matthew 24:31 the angels shall gather together his elect which is the Jewish elect from one end of heaven to the other which is the four corners of the earth.
The main body of the woman will be preserved in the wilderness Revelation 12:14-17.
So to make out like there will be only a small remnant for Israel is not scriptural.

3. The Bible says to judge all spiritual things.
But that is not what I am doing. I believe in being fair to exegesis and proper hermeneutics.
It is important to understand the big picture and not be one sided by ignoring the other side.
You have the right to think your beliefs are right and you might be able to be right in your own context but it doesn’t mean it is right.
For example, Revelation 12 can have at least three different positions that would be right according to ones hermeneutics. That doesn’t mean they are all right according to all the scriptures on the subject.
Judging you or anyone else is different. I don’t even know you. I don’t think you are going to hell just because you have a different position such as not believing a pre-trib rapture. Why? Because we are to occupy and be faithful till he comes.
Do you understand the difference?
Jerry Kelso

BABerean2 said:

When the Second Coming occurs, there are only two positions of authority in the Church.
There is Christ and then everyone else.
I could not be happier about this fact.

.

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baberean2,

1. Can’t answer the question directly.

2. Christ will have a different position of authority from us even though both of us will rule with a rod of Iron.
And everyone else will have different positions of authority. Israel and Judah from their land and the throne will be from their country. The feasts will be administered by the Jews as a memorial etc.
The church will have different positions of authority throughout the kingdom.
I am glad you finally agree. Jerry kelso

jgr said:

Is it fulfilled for a Jew who receives Christ today?

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1. Many shall come from the east and west and shall sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the KoH.
The apostles were a part of the church and will also be judging the 12 tribes of Israel Matthew 19:28.
Matthew 23:39; For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till he shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Romans 11:5: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant ( Jewish) according to the election of grace.

3. Jews who are in the church will be raptured to Heaven.
So obviously some will go to Israel, maybe all. After all Israel will be as the sands of the sea.
David, Abraham and the 12 apostles will be there. Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso> 1. I have told you countless time but you won’t listen or understand.

Check the man in the mirror.

>2. Israel is ethnicity because they are Jews.
Faith and obedience and repentance marks the true ethnic Jew that will be a true inheriter in their homeland of Israel. This includes Judah where the throne of Israel will be.

"Israel is ethnicity because they are Jews" is seriously begging the question. What does faith and obedience have to do with ethnicity?

jerry kelso said:

3. Jews who are in the church will be raptured to Heaven.

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Can you provide the Bible verses saying that there will be people who will be ''raptured to Heaven'' while they are alive in their flesh and blood body ?

I can easily provide Bible verses about the SOULS of Dead believers that John saw in Heaven ...

jerry kelso said:

1. Many shall come from the east and west and shall sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the KoH.
The apostles were a part of the church and will also be judging the 12 tribes of Israel Matthew 19:28.
Matthew 23:39; For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till he shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Romans 11:5: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant ( Jewish) according to the election of grace.

3. Jews who are in the church will be raptured to Heaven.
So obviously some will go to Israel, maybe all. After all Israel will be as the sands of the sea.
David, Abraham and the 12 apostles will be there. Jerry Kelso

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Jerry,

I take that to mean "Yes, those verses are fulfilled for a Jew who receives Christ today". However, I can't be certain, since in typical fashion you haven't answered "yes" or "no".

So is your answer "yes" or "no" to the question in post #1169?

jerry kelso said:

Unsaved Jews will not be a part of Israel and Judah in the KoH reign on earth. That is nothing new. Roman’s 11:26 says, so “All Israel will be saved. “
Ezekiel 37 shows Israel and Judah will be one stick and not be separated any more.

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When the prophesies about the unrepentant Jews take place, only a remnant of Judah will remain. They will join with their Christian brethren, who are all the Israelites of God.
At present scattered around the world, but soon to gather in all of the holy land. Isaiah 62:1-5

jerry kelso said:

It is important to understand the big picture and not be one sided by ignoring the other side.

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Its time you did really try to understand what God actually does plan for His people in the end times. His Commission, Matthew 28:19-20 still stands valid for us until Jesus Returns.
Thinking there will be a rapture removal to heaven, is just fantasy and will never happen. Jesus said so: John 3:13, +

Rukado said:

jerry kelso> 1. I have told you countless time but you won’t listen or understand.

Check the man in the mirror.

>2. Israel is ethnicity because they are Jews.
Faith and obedience and repentance marks the true ethnic Jew that will be a true inheriter in their homeland of Israel. This includes Judah where the throne of Israel will be.

"Israel is ethnicity because they are Jews" is seriously begging the question. What does faith and obedience have to do with ethnicity?

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rukado,

1. I don’t remember talking to you.
However, the question is silly because salvation is free for everyone.
That is a separate issue than gifts and callings and positions of authority.
Why did you ask a non valid question like that? Jerry kelso

Riberra said:

Can you provide the Bible verses saying that there will be people who will be ''raptured to Heaven'' while they are alive in their flesh and blood body ?

I can easily provide Bible verses about the SOULS of Dead believers that John saw in Heaven ...

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riberra,
1. Enoch was translated and Elijah was taken to Heaven in a whirlwind of fire.
The Bible doesn’t say flesh and blood can’t enter but they won’t inherit. That is why they have to be resurrected to a glorified body.

2. I can show dead believers in scriptures as well.
What is your point? Jerry kelso

jgr said:

Jerry,

I take that to mean "Yes, those verses are fulfilled for a Jew who receives Christ today". However, I can't be certain, since in typical fashion you haven't answered "yes" or "no".

So is your answer "yes" or "no" to the question in post #1169?

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jgr,

1. I never said for certain, but I did show those Jews in the church like the apostles ruling over the tribes and they are Jews.

2. What difference does it make because Israel will be a full saved nation. Do you have a point? Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

jgr,

1. I never said for certain, but I did show those Jews in the church like the apostles ruling over the tribes and they are Jews.

2. What difference does it make because Israel will be a full saved nation. Do you have a point? Jerry Kelso

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Jerry,

Why the evasiveness? The question is easily answerable with "yes" or "no".

I have a point, but I can't make it until I know your answer.

jerry kelso said:

However, the question is silly because salvation is free for everyone.
That is a separate issue than gifts and callings and positions of authority.
Why did you ask a non valid question like that? Jerry kelso

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I called you out one a little bit of the gibberish you were posting. You said, "Israel is ethnicity because they are Jews. Faith and obedience and repentance marks the true ethnic Jew." I pointed out that your first sentence begs the question and then I asked you want faith and obedience has to do with ethnicity. As expected, you didn't answer. If you started trying to directly answer questions, you could come a long way in cleaning up your theology.

Jesus referred to Nathaniel as a Israelite indeed because there is no deceit in him. A true Israelite has nothing to do with ethnicity, else a lack of deceit wouldn't be relevant. Israel is the church. The church is Israel. Christians are the true Jews. True Jews are Christians.

Rukado said:

I called you out one a little bit of the gibberish you were posting. You said, "Israel is ethnicity because they are Jews. Faith and obedience and repentance marks the true ethnic Jew." I pointed out that your first sentence begs the question and then I asked you want faith and obedience has to do with ethnicity. As expected, you didn't answer. If you started trying to directly answer questions, you could come a long way in cleaning up your theology.

Jesus referred to Nathaniel as a Israelite indeed because there is no deceit in him. A true Israelite has nothing to do with ethnicity, else a lack of deceit wouldn't be relevant. Israel is the church. The church is Israel. Christians are the true Jews. True Jews are Christians.

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rukado,

1. Israel ethnicity is being a Jew.

2. Ethnicity has nothing to do whether or not they choose salvation. Most Jews res are atheists.

3. Roman’s 2:29 was spoken directly to the Jew. The true Jew is a spiritual Jew that is an ethnic Jew that is saved.
Galatians 6:16, the Israel of God is speaking to Jews and not gentiles.

4. Can Gentiles be called a spiritual Jew. Yes, but only because of being saved.
This has nothing to do with inheriting the physical KoH land and Throne and being at the head of the nations in the millennial kingdom reign with Christ.

5. You need to learn true context instead and quit accusing me of things I didn’t say and mean.
Just because the church can be called a spiritual Jew because of salvation doesn’t mean they will have the same gifts and callings as ethnic Israel. Quit being ridiculous and muddying up the waters. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

rukado,

1. Israel ethnicity is being a Jew.

2. Ethnicity has nothing to do whether or not they choose salvation. Most Jews res are atheists.

3. Roman’s 2:29 was spoken directly to the Jew. The true Jew is a spiritual Jew that is an ethnic Jew that is saved.
Galatians 6:16, the Israel of God is speaking to Jews and not gentiles.

4. Can Gentiles be called a spiritual Jew. Yes, but only because of being saved.
This has nothing to do with inheriting the physical KoH land and Throne and being at the head of the nations in the millennial kingdom reign with Christ.

5. You need to learn true context instead and quit accusing me of things I didn’t say and mean.
Just because the church can be called a spiritual Jew because of salvation doesn’t mean they will have the same gifts and callings as ethnic Israel. Quit being ridiculous and muddying up the waters. Jerry kelso

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What's a Jew? How do you measure their ethnicity? I believe you're throwing around the term "Jew" with no understanding of what it means. There is no such thing as an ethnic Jew.

jerry kelso said:

rukado,

1. Israel ethnicity is being a Jew.

2. Ethnicity has nothing to do whether or not they choose salvation. Most Jews res are atheists.

3. Roman’s 2:29 was spoken directly to the Jew. The true Jew is a spiritual Jew that is an ethnic Jew that is saved.
Galatians 6:16, the Israel of God is speaking to Jews and not gentiles.

4. Can Gentiles be called a spiritual Jew. Yes, but only because of being saved.
This has nothing to do with inheriting the physical KoH land and Throne and being at the head of the nations in the millennial kingdom reign with Christ.

5. You need to learn true context instead and quit accusing me of things I didn’t say and mean.
Just because the church can be called a spiritual Jew because of salvation doesn’t mean they will have the same gifts and callings as ethnic Israel. Quit being ridiculous and muddying up the waters. Jerry kelso

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Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.



Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.




1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.



1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.



.

Rukado said:

What's a Jew? How do you measure their ethnicity? I believe you're throwing around the term "Jew" with no understanding of what it means. There is no such thing as an ethnic Jew.

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rukado,

1. What do you think a Jew is or means?
Jerry kelso

BABerean2 said:

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.



Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.




1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.



1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.



.

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baberean2,

1. Do you believe that Israel was ever promised an eternal covenant in Genesis 12:1-3; 13:12-18; 15:21; Exodus 23:31; Joshua 1:1-4; 17:8; 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8?

2. Do you understand Galatians is all about salvation by grace and not circumcision? It says nothing about Gentiles inheriting the Kingdom Of Heaven gifts and callings of Israel.
The seeds is talking about salvation through grace is why we are Abraham’s seed Romans 4:1-5.
Where does the scripture say the church will inherit the land of Israel and the throne of Judah and be at the head of the nations where the law will go forth from and that Jerusalem is in the country of the church?
Where does scripture say that the church has to go through the time of Jacob’s trouble because they are backslidden?
If the church goes through the tribulation all of us will be martyred and the rapture is a hoax no matter what position you hold of Pre, Mid, or Post.
Christians are taken in the rapture not left 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.
The second advent at Armageddon the wicked are taken like in the flood and die and the survivors are left on earth Matthew 24:37-41. Jerry kelso